The Ben Mulroney Show - Canada recognizes Palestine as a State - the fallout and impact

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

- Jason Kimelman / Canadian whose sister was killed by Hamas If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then, you had to go to the bank. Deposit it, and wait for it to clear.

Your pay really meant something. Payroll is incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Parole professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor, a national day to recognize payroll professionals?

I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are the payroll professionals play in our lives. We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals. We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the nation.

National payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the back seat. The whole way?

The whole way. Canada's oil sands produce the energy the world needs, but it's the benefits that flow to all parts of our country, hundreds of thousands of jobs in oil and gas and along the supply chain, and revenue to invest in roads, bridges, our national defense, and more. You see, we're building more than a strong oil sands sector. We're helping to build a stronger Canada. We're Pathways Alliance, six of Canada's largest oil sands companies working together to help grow Canada's economy. Learn more at Pathwaysalliance.ca.

Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show on this Monday, September 22nd. We're waking up to a new week where Canada has recognized a new colleague in the community of nations, and that is the nation of Palestine. Mark Carney started saying that this was going to happen. on August 1st, when he, well, let's listen to Mark Carney himself, our prime minister, on August 1st, when he laid out what he said were preconditions to the recognition of a Palestinian state. This intention is predicated on the Palestinian authorities' commitment to much-needed reforms. Hamas must immediately release all hostages taken in their horrific terrorist attack of October 7th,

that Hamas must disarm and that a mass must play no role in the future governance of Palestine. Preconditions. I don't know much, but I know that a precondition is a condition that needs to be satisfied prior to what he just said. So you got to do those three things, Hamas. You have to release all the hostages. You have to disarm. And you have zero role to play in the governance of Gaza and the Palestinian state writ large. I ask in good faith, have any of those preconditions been met? And the answer is sadly no. And yet, and yet, we have recognized a Palestinian state. Why?

I don't know. I genuinely do not know. The only thing that I can think is that our prime minister wanted to do so in advance of his appearance at the General Assembly meeting of the United Nations, which to me is a head scratcher. why you would make such a big decision based on something that was in your calendar. Feels weird to me. It feels like the priorities of this government were out of whack. It was also curious if you saw the prime minister's tweet. He also, he posted Canada recognizes the state of Palestine, but he spelled recognizes the British way.

We do not spell it that way. He wrote it, R-E-C-O-G-N-I-S-E-S, but we spell it Z-E-S, which makes me wonder whether he just cut and pasted Kier-Starmers tweet and then replaced UK with Canada. And look, I need to say this. In my entire life, I have disagreed vociferously with a number of Canadian government policies. I have never felt so disconnected from a policy that I would literally say, this government does not speak for me. You do not speak for me. This is not what I stand for. This is not a Canada that I recognize with a Z.

And I refuse to own this decision. I've never said that before. And I'm saying it on this front. I am not saying I don't believe in a two-state solution. I am saying that this is a performative BS, weak-willed, mealy-mouthed, visionless, cynical decision that I refuse to co-sign in any way. And our government believes that this is a step towards normalization. Anita Anan said that this step will only happen when the government sees the Palestinian Authority make good on commitments to significant democratic reform and hold a general election in 2026. But again, you've already tipped your hand.

You gave them recognition. And now you're trying to reverse engineer a change of course saying because before there were preconditions. And now, no, no, this is a good faith effort to show those people in the Palestinian Authority that you're willing to engage with them nation to nation. but you've already given them nation-to-nation status. They have zero, zero need now to do any of the things that you asked for. Do you see that how normalization, what Anita Nann says, needs to happen for them to recognize them? They've recognized them, for them to actually, like, build embassies and stuff. It's actually less than what Carney asked for on August 1st.

It doesn't mention the hostages. It just says that Hamas can't take part. Yeah, yeah. No, something's not tracking for me, and I'm not getting it. And Mark Carney, when he came into politics, didn't say one word about this issue, ever. The issue that brought him into politics was the threat of Donald Trump. Those are his words. He even said, I would not be here.

Were it not for the threat of Donald Trump? He said he was in a pub somewhere when he said it. and I think he was channeling the spirit of Winston Churchill at the time. That's why he came in because this was the battle of our time against Donald Trump. And so let's look at what this did to our relationship with Donald Trump. Donald Trump put on his truth social. Quote, wow, Canada has just announced it is backing statehood for Palestine. That will make it very hard for us to make a trade deal with them.

Oh, Canada. Look, he may be telling the truth. He may not. But you've now given Donald Trump yet another reason to mistrust his closest ally and partner in the world. You've now presented another obstacle to him. Why? I don't know. I don't know. Are you doing these things so that when you ultimately don't get a deal, you can claim it was his fault? I don't know. And let's look at the knock-on effects, the immediate knock-on effects.

And there's a lot. The trickle-down is unbelievable. Well, let's look at the most immediate one, because our good friend Kier Starrmer, everyone's favorite, useful idiot in the UK, who was leading this charge and also recognized the Palestinian state. After the recognition of Palestinian statehood, Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, is demanding two trillion pounds in reparations from the UK. that is $3.7 trillion. He claims Britain owes compensation, quote,

in accordance with international law for the land it controlled from 1917 to 1948. What have I said before? When it comes to certain people on that side of the equation, everything will never be enough. Everything will never be enough. You just recognize Palestinian statehood. And the first thing that Mahmoud Abbas does,

he doesn't subscribe to a single precondition. He doesn't reorganize. He doesn't get rid of the terrorists within his organization. What's the first thing he does? Demands payment of two trillion pounds. Everything will never be enough. So how did we get here? Let's go back to the Canadian example.

In May of 2024, the NDP in the House of Commons introduced a motion to recognize Palestine as a state. What did the liberal government do at the time? They amended it. They watered it down to get rid of, you know, the tricky state. state part. And it was a, it was, instead it was a motion for a ceasefire and hostages, etc. Parliament voted 204-118 against the motion. And now the Carney Liberals, ignoring that expression of democratic will, made a unilateral decision, did not bring this before the House of Commons, did not do any such thing. You made a unilateral move on behalf of all of us.

where was the where's the accountability where was the desire to check with our elected officials who we just had an election just a little while ago this was not an issue that was brought up in the election

you would think it would be incumbent upon them to check with the House of Commons check with the Conservatives who got over 40% of the vote and here by the way not for nothing in the with the cheers

of recognition still ringing out in the streets of Gaza, what did, what did Hamas do? What did, what did senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad say about this? He said, the fruits of October 7 are what caused the entire world to open its eyes on the Palestinian issue. Those, Keir Starmor said, this was not a reward for terrorism. Well, you got the terrorist himself who says this is a reward for terrorism. I'm going to take, I don't often take terrorists at their word. I took him at his word right here. And the last thing that we will talk about before we go to break is so you got the terrorists saying that this was a reward for being terrorists.

In the streets of Gaza, just hours after recognition of statehood, when they were told preconditions that did not have to be met of putting down their arms, what did Hamas terrorists do in the streets of Gaza? on video for the world to see on social media, they executed three people on the streets. It's up on social media for you to see because they claim that these people were working as collaborators with Israel. Shot them in the heads. Shot them in the heads. I guess these guys are gunning to be ambassadors to Canada.

Maybe one of these guys might be ambassador one day. This is shameful. It is boneheaded. It is short-sighted. and it's a failure of our democratic values as well as a longstanding 70-year relationship with Israel. All right, up next, we're going to talk with someone who knows firsthand the dangers of negotiating with terrorists. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and I want to thank you for joining us wherever you find us. Don't forget, we're not just a radio show or streaming on the IHeart radio app, but we're also on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple Music.

and on Amazon music, as well as on Twitter and on Instagram. I want to talk now about the personal implications of this Canadian government decision to recognize Palestine. There are Canadians who have connections to Israel and connections to terrorism. And our next guest is one of those people. Jason Kimmelman had a sister named Marnie. And Marnie was in Israel a long time ago as part of. of a teen trip and a pipe bomb that was buried in the sand exploded and killed her and the Hamas terrorist who was sentenced in that murder has since been released as part of a prisoner swap

and Marnie was from Toronto which is where we're doing this show from please welcome to the show Jason Kimmelman Jason thank you so much for being here my pleasure ben thanks for having me I'm sorry to take us back to the sadness and the hole that is probably hollowed out your soul with the loss of your sister. But, you know, we've got to remember that there are Canadians who were killed and abducted on October 7th. And this happened to you, not on October 7th. It didn't happen to you on October 7, 2023. It didn't happen in 2003. You lost your sister in 1990.

I did. 35 years ago. I was 14. So I've been sort of feeling this anger, sadness, rage for quite a long time. And since October 7th, it's just gotten just way worse. Well, let's spend a little bit of time talking about Marnie, because it seems to me what little I know about her. It doesn't feel like she was motivated in any way by politics.

She was just on a trip. Yeah, no, Ben. Far from that. I mean, she was 17, beautiful girl, working. on a kibbutz, cultivating the land with her friends in the summertime, a summer trip, an organized trip like so many people I know have done, picking tomatoes, picking cherries during the day, swimming in a pool at night, just having a wonderful time. They had a day off on a weekend. They could have gone to Jerusalem or Tel Aviv. My sister loved the beach. She loved

the sun. I was told, I mean, I was 14 at the time. I was told there were thousands of people on the beach that day and an explosion went off and one person was murdered and that was my sister. There was a, as you said, there was a pipe bomb

that was built and buried in the in the sand and it went off and she was killed. And so... But no, Ben, no politics. No politics.

She was just, she was a young girl. She was a teenager enjoying her teen years. That's right. There was actually some, there was a musician that wrote a song shortly after she died. I mean, she was known as a peace lady. Like, she was just, she was

just a beautiful teenager. And so you heard on October 1st that our prime minister had a goal of recognizing the Palestinian state, but he did lay out preconditions. Do these things and we will recognize a Palestinian state. I, in an ideal world, of course, I would want a two-state solution. And so I heard that and I was like, okay, well, look, you know, might be rushing things, but those are, those are, uh, laudable preconditions. And what did you think when you heard that on, on August 1st? August 1st. Yeah. I mean, I personally, I don't think, I mean, I'm not a, an advocate for a two state solution, but that's just my opinion. Yeah. Um, but I respect your opinion and I respect

everybody's opinion, but I'm not for it. I don't think they wanted and I don't think they do. Oh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not looking at the, the lay of the land today and saying it's feasible today. I'm saying in an ideal world, of course, you would want everybody to live within their own borders and respect everybody else's borders. Of course. If that's the case,

100%. Yeah, so 100%. Couldn't agree with you more. But those conditions, I mean, that's the problem I had yesterday. I mean, there are no condition. I mean, had he, had Carney said, had Carney said, look, these are the conditions. Number one,

first and foremost, every single hostages is sent home today. Not in two weeks, but today. Every single one of them done. We will lay down our arms. We will recognize Israel's right to exist, which sounds pretty easy to me that Israelis are allowed to live and breathe in their ancestral homeland. It seems to be a difficult thing for some people to understand, but shouldn't be that difficult. And that will hold democratic elections, and if they do all those things, we will consider recognizing a Palestinian state. have no problem with that. Yeah. Yeah. I would actually respect it. Yeah. It's a combination of the carrot and the stick. I find it really rich that a Palestinian state has been recognized that is

currently being governed by a group that does not recognize Israel's right to exist. I find that very rich. And yet here we are today. And so, but look, when we go back to the story of your of your sister and the terrorist who was released as part of a prisoner swap, I have to imagine that that hurt tremendously to understand the man who killed your sister was free. But that was done, I guess, with a larger goal in mind that I'm not privy to by the government of Israel. This, to me, what happened here in Canada with the recognition of a Palestinian state, that was done just because we wanted to.

There were no external factors forcing it. This wasn't like we were getting anything back. and I wonder if you could compare when that terrorist went free versus what our Canadian government just did. Do you see those things as the same or do you see them as different? Different.

I mean, Ben, when my sister's killer was released, it was in exchange for Gilad Chalit in 2011. So I actually spoke about this many, many years ago. I was all for that. Who was Gilad Jalid? Gilad Chilid was taken prisoner by Hamas in 2005, an Israeli soldier. And he spent six years in a tunnel in Gaza.

He was the same as our hostages now. He was a hostage. So if my sister's death could cause some happiness to Gilagelite's family, of course I'm for it. Bring him home. So in that moment, despite knowing that the man who killed your sister was going free, that you found a way to find value in that? Well, of course I did.

He's my brother. I've spent time with Gilad and Israel. I mean, I feel terrible for him, obviously, and he's, you know, it's just an awful situation. But, of course, I was all for it. And I was very vocal about being all for it. But then you get this. But then to wake up, I mean, I'm talking about punch in the gut. I mean, you're asking me how I felt yesterday.

It's a punch in the gut. But we've had many of them as Jews in Canada. I mean, I woke up months ago, and I see Mahmoud Abbas holding hands with melan Johnny Jolie and Yarra Sachs, smiling on Instagram. This is the guy they want in charge. This is a guy that pays, continues to pay my sister's killer and his family on a monthly basis. Yeah. Like, this guy is out.

Not only if he released, he's making money for killing my sister. I don't understand how these are the... Yeah. Jason, we also got the news this morning that Mahmoud Abbas, rather than upon being recognized as a leader of now the Palestinian state, Rather than look to satisfy the preconditions, which are now post conditions, the first thing that he has done is demand, according to international law, reparations by the UK to the tune of three trillion pounds. That's where his head's at. Give us some more money.

Like the grift continues. Yeah, Ben, I'm not, I mean, are you shocked by that? No, no. I've been trying to coin the term, everything will never be enough. And it's playing out in real time. You get statehood and you want more. I mean, yeah, it's, look, this is, to me, Ben, this feels like a government that has, you know, promised a lot, has accomplished very little, very little. And this was a chance to get some votes.

And I think it's going to work. You think it's a cynical play for votes at home? A hundred. Well, yes, I do. I really do. I mean, I don't know. There's no other reason for it. I think every country that symbolically recognizing this Palestinian state, which.

which, by the way, means very little. Yeah. But it does hurt Jews in Canada and it hurt Israel. And it's just, it doesn't make much sense. Yeah, Jason, we have to leave it there. But Jason Kimmelman, I want to thank you for being here. Your graciousness is remarkable. You could be excused for feeling differently.

I cannot imagine the pain that you carry each and every day since losing your sister. But I want to thank you so much for adding clarity and a personal tone to the story that I think all trying to make sense of this week. Thank you very much. When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from Winners, I started wondering. Is every fabulous item I see from winners? Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. Are those from winners?

Ooh, are those beautiful gold earrings. Did she pay full price? Or that leather tote? Or that cashmere sweater? Or those knee-high boots? That dress, that jacket, those shoes. Is anyone paying full price for anything? Stop wondering. Start winning.

Winners, find Fabulous for less.