The Ben Mulroney Show - Deporting foreign criminals in the GTA? How youth are recruited into criminal groups

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

GUEST: Peter Edwards/Organized Crime reporter/The Toronto Star If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty. It's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control. and not talk about how it's affecting you. But the truth is, you're allowed to feel overwhelmed. You're allowed to say, I'm not okay right now. And trust me, I have been there.

Whether it's the state of the world, stress at home, or just feeling like you've got to have it all together and have all the answers. You don't have to hold it in. Better help is here to help with the world's largest network of licensed therapists. They've already supported over 5 million people. You can connect with a therapist online

from wherever you are, no wait list, no office visits. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch any time. It's time to put your mental health on the agenda. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Mulruni today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Mulruni. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you?

Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then you had to go to the bank.

Deposit it and wait for it to clear. Your pay really meant something. Payroll was incredibly complex. It's art and the science. It literally keeps the economy moving. Parole professionals do a lot for us. You know, it's about time we do something for them. How about we ask our leaders to name a day in their honor,

a national day to recognize payroll professionals? I got it. This is perfect. Why don't we explain to people just how important the roles are the payroll professionals play in our lives? We can even ask them to sign a petition. We can even ask them to sign a petition to recognize the third Tuesday in September as the National Day to recognize payroll professionals. We'll rally support and bring the payroll party to the next day

The payroll party to the nation. A national payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the back seat.

The whole way? The whole way. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show on this Tuesday, October 14th. Everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving long weekend. I ate more food than I feel was responsible. Like, I'm still reeling. I'm still reeling. I'm wearing my pregnancy pants today.

My Joey Tribiani Thanksgiving pregnancy pants. The belt just, you couldn't expand the belt. It was a bad, dude, it was bad. By the way, I want to give a shout out to my family members. I want to thank my brother Mark, my brother Nick, and my sister Caroline for hosting three incredible meals. One day I will I will reciprocate.

Yes. So we did a, like a brunch at my brother's place on Saturday, followed by a dinner at my brother's place on Nick's place on Saturday. And then Sunday, the main event at my sister Caroline's place. And who ruled you into the car

at the end of the day? Oh, geez, I tell you, it was just. But can I tell you, there's this moment. For two hours afterwards, like, I can't eat, I can't eat. And then the switch goes off. I'm a little peckish. I could go for something sweet or something salty.

Anyway, but regardless, it was a wonderful time with family, and I hope everybody was able to celebrate in a manner that made them thankful. Last Thursday was an interesting day in sport because the Philadelphia Eagles, the Phillies, and the Flyers all lost on the same day. It's the first triple city defeat in 40 years. Apparently the last one was Philly as well. And my intrepid producer, Mike Drolet, posited that perhaps Toronto qualifies as well

with the Leafs losing, the J's losing, and the Bills losing. Buffalo's kind of a home team, right? I'll tell you why I don't think that that's even remotely the same. First of all, Philly fans are psychotic. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like head and shoulders certifiable, like above any. anybody else. Secondly, every football game matters in a way that is not the case this early

in a NHL season. The bills are technically not in Toronto. So when the Leafs lose this early in the season, you know, you can take it as you will. The bill's losing the J's, yes, it's a kick in the teeth. It's a kick in the nards. It just was, you know, a game at two, game at five, game at seven, and it was all frustrating. Yes, yes. Now, there are those who believe that down to nothing against the Mariners going into Seattle with a very average record on the road speaks to that this might be a short series. I'm actually holding out hope. There's something about this team and there's something about the feeling.

And look, I'm late to the game bandwagon kind of guy this year. Didn't see it coming. So take it for what it is. But we will see. They're playing tomorrow in Seattle. Go, J's go. Was it last week with our friend Michael, Michael DeForge? It was early last week.

So early last week, you will remember the soap opera that are the encampments at Duffron Grove here in Toronto, where unhoused people were staying in like a mini tent city. and they were offered an opportunity to go into the shelter system. They wanted nothing to do with that. They were removed. They came back. They were removed. They came back. They had demands that they wanted condos given to them free of charge.

And then they came back and then they said they self-identified as indigenous. And this was all very confusing for a person like myself. I thought it might be interesting to have somebody on the show who was a supporter of the Dufferin Grove encampment and so we reached out to somebody named Michael DeForge

who was a self-professed supporter and socialist. And socialist is fine, I don't care. And we wanted to have a conversation here. My producer, Mike Droulet, reached out, wrote a very nice email and the response was cheeky to say the least. I think he was very proud

of calling me I mean, he referenced Joseph Goebbels. A youth counselor, Joseph Goebbels. Last charismatic, Ted Bundy. Yeah, yeah. And I posited that, no, you're more charismatic than Taylor. He also threw in that I'm a Nepo baby, all sorts of stuff, right?

All the things, yeah. Listen, he threw everything at the kitchen sink at the wall. And in some circles, I'm sure, very witty. And I'm sure he loved it. And he relished it so much. As a matter of fact, he put it on his social media. He actually posted it. And some of the responses were,

a fire. Well done. Boy, did you serve that guy. There are a few that said, you know, why didn't you just take him up on his invitation, go on his show and have a discussion. Civil debate is one of those simple tools that can help society grow. Why would you want it to grow when I'm a Nazi? I'm a Nazi. You wouldn't want to talk to a Nazi like Ben Mulrooney. Anyway, so let's not forget. We also pointed out that this guy is a fairly talented graphic designer. We looked at some of his art and I thought to myself, But this is actually, some of this is quite nice. And I, you know, thought I, honestly, in another life, I may have had one of his posters.

Anyway, he was supposed to have a, he was supposed to have an art show. But he posted this on Friday. I'm sad to say that this art show is canceled. Yesterday, I was among eight arrested at an action demanding the safe return of freedom flotilla members currently being detained in Israeli prisons. a two-way arms embargo and sanctions on Israel. So he was one of the eight who was arrested for occupying the riding office of a Toronto area member of parliament. And so he was arrested at an action demand. So he was arrested for committing a crime.

So that's what is. You can call it an action if you want. It's a crime. And so because of that, his event was canceled. and I feel for Michael DeForge. Do you? No. I really feel.

I got that message. Well, it's one of those F around and find out sort of situations. When you break the law every now and then, you're going to get arrested. I know that we've been living in a world where people of a certain political bent with certain political views seem to get away with things that years ago maybe they would have been arrested for. But, you know, occupying a member of parliament's office? I just hope that he wasn't still in jail and missed out on turkey. Oh, he doesn't eat turkey. Are you kidding?

This is not a man. No, no, Thanksgiving is a genocide against the turkeys. It's an annual genocide. Would you even have to fur? Are you kidding? Like, it's a celebration of our colonialist past. And, you know, it's a celebration of Western centric history. No, no, God, no.

Oh, God, no. no, I'm sure he would have protested against Thanksgiving. He had protested his own family. Yeah. Anyway, good luck to you, sir. And wherever you are, I'm sure you're out on bail. Good luck to you, Michael DeForge. Honestly, man, had you come in here, we would have had a good conversation. I can promise you that.

But that ship has passed. Okay, so we're now living in a world where Donald Trump's 20-point peace plan has at least in part taken shape and taken root. And the IDF have pulled out of Gaza. The hostages, the live ones have been returned. Israel has released over 1,000, almost 2,000 prisoners. And that's a good start, right?

That's a good start to this plan that is going to take a very long time. and who knows how successful it will be. But as of today, there's a lot to celebrate. Now, you would think that in that world, the dynamic on the streets of Toronto, the dynamic on the streets across the Western world would change. But that is not necessarily the case. Let's speed ahead, Dave, to the protests in Montreal. Out, out.

We don't know what the people. We're up inside us. The generation, out, out, out, out. Go on, down, down. Okay, I don't know what those people were saying, but the visual didn't look like, I mean, I'm sorry, the visual was masked people. It looked like an army amassing in the streets of Montreal.

It absolutely did. I don't know what they were saying. And frankly, I'm sure they don't know what they're saying right now because what are you protesting today? It looked less like a protest, more like, A hardcore rally. Yeah, no, no, it looked like an army amassing for an attack. It did, and it does.

And then I'll stand by that. Go watch it yourself. We have a lot to say about the ever-changing face of the Middle East and why, for some reason, that is not translating into a commensurate change on the streets here in Toronto. I suspect you know where I'm going with that, but that is a conversation for later on in the Ben Mulroney show. Up next, Peel Region Police are telling us about their latest

arrest, but what they want to do next is absolutely going to surprise you. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you so much for starting your Tuesday with us. It was a long weekend, which also means it is a short week. I always look at the double-ender side of it. There's good news on both ends.

Long weekend also means short week ahead. four days until the weekend, ladies and gentlemen. All right, we talk a lot about crime on this show. You know that it is a be in our bonnet that we want to shine a light on what we think are failings in our criminal justice system, weaknesses, cracks in the system, and in the hopes of the powers that be and the people in power make the changes required so that the everyday regular citizen who just wants to go about their lives, pay their taxes, go home, spend time with family can do so, feeling as safe as possible.

Well, here's another story, but it's not exactly the type of story that we tell you about, especially the end part. So Peel and Haltin Regional Police, working with Canada Post, recovered over 450 pieces of stolen mail worth over 400 grand. The joint investigation began in April of this year after a string of residential mailbox thefts across the region of Peel. Now, search warrants were executed on September 8th and 9th at several Mississauga homes, leading to the recovery of credit cards, IDs, gift cards, and over 250 checks.

Now, I'm going to read the names of those men who were arrested. And I want to be very careful here. I am not saying their names because I want you to have an image in your head of the big, bad brown person. Okay, that's not why I'm reading it. Why I'm reading it to you is what follows, okay? So the eight men who were arrested, Sumin-Preet Singh, Gurdip Chata, Jadana, Harmon Singh, Jazanpreet Singh, Manrupp Singh,

Raj Beer Singh, and another gentleman named Singh. And they're facing 344 property-related charges. As a matter of fact, I wasn't going to read their names because I didn't want to fall into a, I didn't want to fall into a, of a, of a hole where people accuse me of casual racism. But here's why their names are important. Because Peel Region Police are actively engaged with the Peel Crown Attorney's Office and the Canada Border Services Agency,

which will determine whether removal of the accused foreign nationals from Canada may be pursued as part of the judicial process. So what I just said is these guys are foreign nationals living in Canada breaking the law. We don't know how many of them are. So we don't know how many of them are. But it's safe to assume some of them are. Oh, obviously, yeah. Some of them are.

And what the police are saying is, on top of pursuing criminal charges, they are looking to see whether they can have these guys kicked out of the country. And I haven't seen the police avail themselves of that particular avenue of justice in the entirety of the Ben Mulroney show. I've never reported on it. We've never talked about it. And I'll tell you why I think this is significant. Is because let's call this group criminal group one.

Then there's a group just like this group that does their own thing. And they were watching this crime spree. And then these guys get arrested. So group one gets arrested. And group two thinks to themselves. well, I mean, their problem was they just didn't do the crime right. We are, we as criminal group two, if we were to do that crime, we would have done it right. We wouldn't have gotten caught.

And then we could have done it again and again and again and again and again. Now that works in a world where, as we've reported before, time and time and time again, criminal group one gets arrested. They get bail and they get out and they do it again and again and again. But in a world where, hey, the jig is up. and you may be going back to India? Never to come back to Canada again? Well, all of a sudden, the risk profile of the crime changes

and criminal group too might think to themselves, maybe we don't steal mail. Maybe we don't steal anything because we like being in Canada more than we like doing crimes. And maybe we just stay home and we don't rob people. In other words, that's a very long way of saying, I believe, deterrence work.

And one of the best ways to deter people from committing a crime is to send a message through the criminal community that if you do this crime, what's going to happen to all these guys is they may be going back to India, a place that I have to assume they didn't want to be because they came here. And so we are going to take away the one thing that they really liked, which was being in Canada. And that sends a message throughout the criminal community that if you do, do these crimes.

One of the things that could happen to you is you may never set foot in Canada again. Deterrence works. Deterrence works. And I'm really glad to see that Peel Police are at least exploring this avenue of justice. Because I don't know by you, but if you're not from here, if you are here as a guest of this country and you are stealing from us, it doesn't give me much comfort. Okay, you're stealing from us. I also don't want to be paying and footing the bill for you being in prison. I don't want either one of those things.

If you've decided to come here and you want to break our laws, I want you gone. I want you gone. I don't care how many family members you have here. I don't care how long you've been here. If you're not a Canadian citizen, we have no reason to keep you here if you've broken our laws. And I want that to be a message sent to anyone who is not a Canadian citizen

who is thinking of breaking our laws. I want that to be the rule, not the exception. And I'm very glad to see that Peel and Houghton Region Police are working with Canada Post as well as the Border Security to see if there's a way to turf these guys. Bye-bye to any one of you who doesn't have a Canadian passport. Heck, I would also like, I'm the type of person that would like to explore. If you got two passports, we're going to send you back to the place you came from.

Sorry, not sorry. we've got enough problems here and a lot of them are being caused by you so you get to go back to where you came from and then the message will be sent to other people who do what you do who are here on student visas temporary foreign workers

who are not Canadian citizens and we send you back to where you came from now we were taking a look at this that there are a number of categories how hard is it to remove people from Canada. If you're a temporary resident, so a visitor, a worker, a student, and let's say you overstay your visa,

the difficulty level of sending you back to where you came from is apparently moderate. It's straightforward, no appeals rights. Permanent residents, definitely harder. Refugee claimants, moderate to hard, many legal stays, humanitarian reviews. If you're a foreign national without

status and you're here illegally, you have no status, it's a lot easier to get rid of you through locating, so long as we can locate you. And that's a big problem in this Canada, in this country. We know we've heard story after story. We saw that last week in committees in Ottawa where they had no idea. They just fall through the cracks. Tens of thousands of people were. But Mike, what I'm saying, some people are going to be very offended by what I'm saying. You do not have a God-given right to be in Canada. And you certainly don't have a God-given right to be in Canada if your goal is to break

our laws. It's not a right. It's a privilege to be here. Yeah. And by privilege, you need to follow the laws here. And sadly, it might, they might, you might think, okay, it's easy to once people break a law just to send them home. It could take three years, six years to be able to go through the court process because there's appeals. As far as I'm in the judicial system with the judges we have seen over and time and again. There's a case just last week where a guy was given in less than six months simply because it would have affected his immigration status. Yeah. And so that is something that needs to be fixed. Now, last week, the conservatives and Ottawa put forth Bill C242, the Jail Not Bail Act, which got voted down by the liberals.

But the liberals did vow. They said, we believe the Tories will be happy with what we're going to be putting forth very soon, which is going to be even more comprehensive than your proposed bill if their proposed bill takes into account some of this nonsense where it is not the crime that determines how long you spend in prison but the criminal and if you are a criminal that they view deserves leniency you're going to get less time that is BS it is offensive there should be one criminal justice system so perhaps that will be on the radar of the feds We'll have to wait and see. I'm choosing to be optimistic.

But we will have to definitely wait and see. But up next, we've got Peter Edwards from The Star. He's joining us to talk about the teen criminal conundrum. Why are so many kids getting recruited by organized crime? That's next. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Hey, I want to thank all of you for helping us build the Ben Mulroney community on all the different platforms on which we find the show. We're not just a radio show, but we're on the streaming app, the IHeart radio app.

We're also a podcast on all podcast platforms. We're on YouTube. We're on social media. And each one of those spots is essential to helping us build this show into what we hope is a long-lasting voice in radio and indeed in media. this country for years to come. So thank you very much. One of the, one of the, uh, changes that we at the show have noticed as it relates to crime in Toronto and more broadly across the country is how many times we report on stories that involve young people, uh, people who would fall under the category of the Youth Criminal Justice Act. And that, and, and, and we've asked ourselves, what is the knock on

effect going to be for that act itself? If it, if, in fact, it is being turned into, Swiss cheese by all the loopholes and the holes that criminals are maneuvering through to recruit younger and younger criminals into their organizations because they know that they are going to get off relatively easy compared to somebody who might be a few years older. Now, why that's happening or how that's happening, that's a story that we have not been able to yet talk about because we don't have the information. The person that we're talking to now does have. that information. We're very happy to be joined now by Peter Edwards, organized crime

reporter for the Toronto Star. Peter, thank you so much for joining us on the Ben Mulroney show. Well, thank you for having me. So, you know, I was reading a story today about five teens arrested in Oshawa after armed robbery, and more and more this seems to be, not just the exception, it's rapidly becoming the rule. Is that a fair thing to say? Unfortunately, yes, and that Oshoa one had a 12-year-old girl. So the oldest person in that little group of five was 15 years old, and they did have a gun, and it was to rob a kid on a bike. I mean, this is new stuff.

The Toronto Chief spoke out about it last month, but we're seeing it more and more. A 12-year-old got charged with murder last month with auto theft, and these are the perfect people on the ground level. Now, Peter, I'm, you know, I can, I see these stories, I try to make links in my head and I speculate as to what could be happening. And the speculation that I've, I think, put out there into the public sphere is that, you know, these criminal organizations are getting wise to how they can use the Youth Criminal Justice Act to their benefit.

By recruiting younger and younger people, they have a stable of young people that they can train, that they can recruit and keep as loyal foot soldiers. but in their youngest incarnation, they can get away with things that older foot soldiers can't. Is that a cynical interpretation, or do the facts on the ground confirm that? Unfortunately, I think you're right. Like, you can get a 12-year-old, a spot an expensive car just as easily as you can get a 25-year-old, and so why not get the kid? And I talked to someone who started in Auto Fest circles when he was 13, and he said that he couldn't really give up that many people even if they wanted to.

Like, they don't know who the boss is. They only know the people in their little group of maybe five to eight. And so even if they wanted to talk to police, they're not really that useful. Yeah, like these kids wouldn't even know to ask who the top boss is, right? An adult comes to them and says, I guess, offers them some quick cash, and they see that as something they've never had before. And sure, you want me to do X, Y, and Zeld, I'll do that. And they don't necessarily have the wherewithal to ask those questions about, well, who am I working for and who are you working for? And so in that way, they keep them circumscribed and they keep them on task.

And that makes them pretty good, pretty good low-level foot soldiers. Yeah, and $75 bucks to a 12-year-old's a big deal. And if you get that, say, three times in a week, you're really doing well. And if someone stands up, can handle the pressure, then you just move them up. Like the guy I talked to started off as a 13-year-old in auto theft circles ended up in prison for helping orchestrate a murder. Like you can just sort of gradually move up. You don't. So, yeah.

So what are the entry points? What are those easy entry points for a young person to get cordoned into this life? Because as you said, being a lookout is a far cry from committing murder. You're a spotter, and then you might take part in home invasions. And this guy told me that what it's like when you're getting ready to storm into a house, they're really wound up. And he said there's one guy who just couldn't take it and ran away. You can sort of measure people on the way and it just gradually, a lot of these guys cross over,

like a lot of them are moving drugs as well. It's not like you're, it's a really narrow lane. It's a criminal circle you're getting into not just a one crime scene. Where are they finding these kids? Unfortunately, lots of places. I mean, there's a lot of single parents who are working, you know, super long hours and their kids are left. alone um um it's pretty easy really from a neighborhood you know you have a distrains neighborhood there's a lot going on in peel um peel high rises um but it's it's not difficult

at all and you don't need a million of them like the police estimate was something like two thousand people in gangs in Toronto which isn't really that many when you think of how big the city is and um peter is it if these kids are brought into this criminal gang criminal organization and they're brought in say as a spotter to go identify cars in a neighborhood that then another crew could then come in and boost later on um is it almost a certainty that even if they start with these these low risk jobs that they will eventually be asked to escalate to something more serious yeah and that'll just be your circle like these will be the people you know and when you're 12 something seems big enough but when you're 15 you want a lot more and so um

It's just a gradual thing. And then the people hire up in the group will notice who can handle the pressure, who can't, who's reliable, who isn't, who talks too much, who doesn't. And so it's a really natural thing. And I've got to put myself, I've tried to put myself in the shoes of sort of the elder gangsters, the ones who are bringing these increasingly younger kids into the organization. Is there an age at which is like they just won't touch? I mean, there used to be honor among thieves, you know? They wouldn't, you know, you hear these stories about the mob, especially in the movies. We don't kill kids and we don't kill women.

But now it seems like you're bringing the kids in to the criminal element and to the criminal organization younger and younger. I mean, are we one day going to wake up and see an eight-year-old committing these crimes? Well, I mean, we've seen a 12-year-old accused of it. So it's another thing without trying to sound to flip them, they're not very good shots. So you put the guns in their hands, and they're not handling as well as a 35-year-old. Yeah, of course. Of course. And so there's one shootout where there were 100 shots fired, nobody got hit.

I mean, you know, Lord helped the bystander walking by there. The bystanders are, that's when we really start to notice them in the press, but there's a lot of shots and fired that they're not really aiming correctly. And so it's a frightening thing for the average person in the public. I mean, that little eight-year-old boy who was killed in his mother's bed. I mean, you know. Yeah, Javei Roy. Yeah.

So what needs to happen? I mean, a lot of people, I've certainly put it out there that I think there needs to be a conversation about what to do with the Youth Criminal Justice Act, because it seems like it has been turned into, it's far less effective a tool than it was a originally intended. Yeah, and it's well-meaning. I mean, I know the Stephen Truscott stuff about a 14-year-old boy sentence to hang, and I'm extremely sympathetic there. But on the other hand, there is a public protection thing.

And if you can only get three years or 10 years where the very worst of crimes, criminals will take advantage of that. Some of what has to be done is longer term, like better housing, more jobs. And it's easy to say. that's the root of a lot of that stuff. No, of course. Of course. If a kid feels like they have potential through legal avenues,

they are not going to be as easily swayed by somebody who says, hey, you want to make a quick buck by boosting a car. That makes perfect sense. But in the interim, the most immediate thing is what to do with this, what seems to be a loophole in our system. Peter, we're going to have to leave it here, but I urge everyone to read Peter Edwards in the Toronto Star. Really great work, sir.

Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Up next. Let's hear from you. Is it time to put our collective foot down? This is the Ben Mulroney show. We thank you so much for being part of this show.

As a matter of fact, it's essential that you be part of this show because otherwise it's just me screaming into a microphone and nobody wants that. So now it's time to turn the microphone over to you at 416-870. 6,400 or 1-8-225 talk. We were talking with a journalist at the Toronto Star just before this about how criminal gangs are creating as part of their business model to bring in younger and younger kids to be lookouts and to be scouts and to do low-level crimes to start and they escalate

higher and higher in the hopes of having them be able to avoid. the implications of their crimes because of the Youth Criminal Justice Act. And we want to hear from you, 4168-8-6400 or 1-8-2-25 talk. Is it time for us to say enough-s enough? Should we be putting pressure on Ottawa to tweak the Youth Criminal Justice Act? Maybe there's another solution that I'm not thinking of that we'd love to hear from you. So give us a call. Hey, Kevin, thank you so much for calling the show and happy Tuesday to you.

Hi, Ben. How are you today? Well, thank you. Good. Yes, I firmly think that it is time to be much tougher with youth. Unfortunately, we're at a point right now where the majority of our citizenship is being affected by the behaviors of the minority. And it's to the point that it's really a dental effect on the fabric of our society. You're really seeing it unravel in so many different ways. Yeah.

And so I understand that behind every one of these young people, there is a story. There are mitigating circumstances, and they need support, but they cannot be, especially for violent, heinous crimes, they cannot be back on the street a week later. They need to be institutionalized, and even if in the short term there's not much support for them, that has to happen. And then let's hope our society can start to put more resources together to support them while they're there, and hopefully they can be turned around, right? Yeah, you know, Kevin, I think you said everything.

Everything you said scratches my itch, like a recognition that, yes, there need to be more supports. There needs to be, there needs to be, there need to be more resources brought to bear on these communities so that these kids don't think that their only option for moving forward in life is crime. I get that. But in the immediate term, in the immediate term, we have to deal with the immediate effects on the community at large.

And that is that these young kids are being turned into criminals. And they need to be treated as such. And you're a retired principal. You saw, you were on the front line when these kids were what? They were being approached by these criminals? Yeah, I have seen that. I have also seen, as I was saying to your screener there, I have seen that, you know, the acceleration of this type of behavior.

And I have always said, you know, there's one place where all of society is together at one time. And that's in our schools. And what a great spot to steer these resources, too, to develop some of the support. But unfortunately, you know, that's not happening. And our teachers are overwhelmed with, you know, just trying to teach them the three hours, so to speak, is difficult when you have all these other things at place. So, I mean, I have always said we need to maybe use schools, an education system, to try to funnel some of these supports to, right? Yeah, yeah.

In a preventative way and even in a, even in a more reactive way. But I think, again, short term, some of these heinous crimes need to be dealt with in much more punitive way. And they need to be, you know, not active on the street where it can happen again, right? Yeah, Kevin, I got a lot. a bunch of other people I want to talk to you, but I want to thank you for being the first call today because you really level set very well for us. And look, you know, if you are,

if a 12-year-old is caught as a spotter for a, you know, a break-in or a car theft, you've caught them early enough that they haven't done anything violent yet. But what we're learning and what we just heard from Peter Edwards is they will climb the ladder of criminality. If you catch them when they haven't done anything violent yet, treat them as youth

but put a system in place that diverts them away from that life of crime because you know that as soon as they get out on bail as soon as they get put through the system they'll be right back into that criminal element and they will take the next step and the next step until they are brandishing a weapon until they are committing a violent crime

until they are possibly killing somebody and then I don't care if you're 12 or 14 or 16 you deserve to go away for the rest of your life Let's go to Lex. Lex, thank you for joining us. Hi, Ben. Hi, Ben, buddy. Thank you. My take on it is nowadays with the inflation and the gun bans and all that,

it just became too appealing for the youth to join gangs and gun violence, stuff like that. Because back when, before the law with the banning handguns, it was, you know, $500 illegal firearm. Now, because of the gun ban, you just profited it up to $5,000 a gun ban. So I believe it funded the criminal industry. Therefore, now kids are more appealed to it because when I was a kid, it was, you know, go to work, work hard, become a member society. Now that incentive is almost gone. Go to school, be broke, and work nine to five and basically just put your head above water. Yeah, look, look, I don't want to, I don't want to sort of suggest that every single kid who ends up in a criminal.

gang has the same story. I'm sure every person is different and everybody has their own reason and their own pathway to that. And for some people, I'm sure that for some of them, they are convinced that there's something cool and sexy about becoming a criminal. And for others, I'm sure that they are really torn over it. But maybe they need to help. They need help with the bills in their house.

I mean, there's a myriad reasons why it happens. But it is happening more today. So I'm less concerned with why it's happening. and I'm more concerned with why it's happening as often as it's happening. Yeah, yeah, most definitely. I want to thank you. I've got a couple more calls to get to. Thank you, Lex.

I appreciate it. Let's go to Frank. Frank, thanks so much for calling into the Ben Mulroney show. Good morning, Ben. I think the big problem here is there's no deterrent for these young kids. There needs to be a deterrent. The only way they can do that is changing the criminal code. Yeah, I agree.

Frank, but it's not deterrent for the kids. it's a deterrent for the older gangsters who are they've done a cost benefit analysis and they've realized that these young foot soldiers sure they don't know how to shoot a gun but there's more value in them as these recyclable uh low level foot soldiers if you if you if you change a youth criminal justice act you change the the value prop you change the risk profile and you make it so that it might not be in their interest to bring a 12 year old in because that 12-year-old may get charged as an adult. Anyway, thank you.

Time for, let's see who do we have. We have Elaine. Elaine, thank you for calling. Hello, Ben. Hi. Okay, for reversing criminal behavior, I think this is the only solution. You've heard about victim impact statements. Yes.

Those criminals have to go once a week to a room and listen to all the victim impact statements, and this will work with youth as well, so that they realize what their criminal behavior has done to the actual victim. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? It's not, that's a, that's a low cost solution to getting inside the heads of some of these people. I appreciate that. I think we've got time for one more. So let's welcome George. George, you're going to have the final say here. Welcome. Hey, Ben. Yeah. Remember when you were a kid and, well, maybe you don't because you were raised by Brian Mulroney, but, you know, you get the threat that, hey, if you screw up,

you're going to juvie. Yeah, I know. My mom threatened to sell me to the circuit. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Same idea. No, we need something like a juvenile detention center like they used to have. Now, I know everyone says, well, that just teaches how to be better criminals, but it's a fear of going to a reform school or something like that. Yeah. You know, George, a lot of us have been saying the same thing. One thing that is lacking in our criminal justice system, as I see it, and I'm more than happy for somebody to tell me I'm wrong, is we don't have the fear of the consequences of our actions anymore. We don't have that deterrent anymore. that if I've now seen what happens because somebody did what I want to do and they are now, the consequences of their actions are too onerous for me to own and therefore I'm not going to do it. We don't have that anymore. And consequently, people will do these crimes because they know they'll be back on the street,

be able to do it again and time and time again. Thank you very much for your call. In fact, thank you to everybody for calling in. We really do appreciate it. This fall on Flavor Network. I'm actually on Top Chef Canada. It's super surreal being here. The search for Canada's Top Chef starts now.

Let's go! Ten chefs are on a culinary quest. It tastes like fear, anxiety, all at the same time, but delicious. Only one will be crowned. It's tough. One of the hardest things I've ever. Every time. Two minutes!

Yeah! Top Chef Canada. New season, October 14th on Flavor Network, stream on Stack TV.