The Ben Mulroney Show - Details of a phone call between Howard Lutnick & Doug Ford, & how much will the tariffs be rolled back today?

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Guests and Topics: -The details of the phone call between Howard Lutnick & Doug Ford, and how much will the tariffs be rolled back today? with Guest: Laura Stone, Queens Park Reporter for The Globe and Mail If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. Welcome to the Wednesday edition of the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You may be listening to us on radio, in which case I say hello to everybody on CFPL in London, everybody on 640 Toronto in the aforementioned Toronto. You may be listening on the iHeartRadio app or you may find us wherever you enjoy your podcasts. I'm not going to lie, guys, I am not at 100% today. I think this is that time of year where everybody starts getting a little bit sick and I'm Relatively healthy like I stay healthy and and if I've got something I push through it and

And I'm not I'm not I'm not at a hundred percent. I'll tell you how bad it is. I'm drinking tea Normally, I drink coffee. That's like I drink coffee exclusively. I think tea is garbage. But I couldn't bring myself to drink coffee today and I've been drinking tea. And here's hoping here's hoping that that this will get lifted from my from my head cold will get lifted as the Trump tariffs possibly who knows maybe might get lifted at least in part today. Donald Trump, as we know, decided he wanted to reset. I don't know what he decided to do or why he decided to do it, but he decided to lay

tariffs on us yesterday and in a joint session of Congress yesterday, he gave a speech where he acknowledged that while this is what he wants to do, and he has promised to make America great, again, things might get a little bad before they get better. Goods that come in from other countries and companies, they're really, really in a bad position in so many different ways. They're uninspected. They may be very dirty and disgusting, and they come in and they pour in, and they hurt

our American farmers. The tariffs will go on, agricultural product coming into America, and our farmers starting on April 2nd, it may be a little bit of an adjustment period. We had that before when I made the deal with China, $50 billion of purchases, and I said, just bear with me. And they did. They purchases and I said just bear with me and they did. They did probably have to bear with me again. Okay, sure. That's, that's, that's a take. That's a take. Yesterday on the show, I spent a lot of time talking and coming to the conclusion in my own mind that this is not about fentanyl,

this is not about the border. This is about hollowing out Canadian industry and having it all move to the United States. He said as much yesterday in a true social post, pointing out that businesses that move to the United States will not be subject to tariffs, because they will be American. He said that right on the heels of our prime minister, essentially laying out the case that we've done everything that we said we were going to do on the border and on fentanyl and the results are proving out that that work has been significant.

But Kevin Hassett, the director of the National Economic Council of the United States, says this is still indeed about drugs. This is not a trade war, it's a drug war. And with all of the intelligence that we've been gathering from our intelligence agencies and our investigative people at the FBI and elsewhere, the president is extraordinarily disappointed in the actions the Canadians and Mexicans have taken to fight the drug war. Make no mistake, in 2023, Canada, which claims it's an

innocent party, we found increased fentanyl seizures by 2000 percent in 2023. And in Mexico, we know that the cartels operate basically without inspection by government or police officials because they're probably very often, especially in some regions, controlled by the cartels. And we think that there are cartel influences in Canada if you look at the lack of progress we've made on the drug war. Well, we know that there are cartels in Canada and we know that they've now been listed as terrorist organizations.

Something we honestly have to thank the Americans for. That is a good thing. That is a net benefit. I think that North America will be safer because of that. And I take Mr. Hassett at his word where he says that seizures at the border of fentanyl went up 2000 percent. But that is a statistic without being anchored in a number. It's like when somebody says, we are the fastest growing television show.

That could mean that you had the smallest ratings and you went up the highest versus your ratings. If you had a thousand viewers and then you go up to 2000 viewers, well, you've doubled your viewers. That's a hundred percent increase in my ratings. But those are still garbage ratings. Those are still tiny ratings. So to say you got two thousand percent increase of seizures of fentanyl at the border, I take

you at your word. But what's the number you started with, sir? Was it a gram? Was it a half a kilo? These things take that statistic and turn it into a number that means something. So there's a lot of vapor there from Mr. Hassett. Another US official, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, said that Canada and Mexico were on the phones yesterday, trying to barrel towards a renegotiated deal here.

He says that because of these conversations yesterday, because Canada and Mexico are so willing to do even more, that there could be a rollback of sorts later today. He's going to come out angry that Americans are still being killed. Now both the Mexicans and the Canadians were on the phone with me all day trying to show that they'll do better. And the president's listening because you know he's very, very fair and very reasonable. So I think he's going to work something out with them. It's not going to be a pause.

None of that pause stuff. But I think he's going to figure out you do, and I'll meet you in the middle some way, will likely be the outcome. The president moving with the Canadians and Mexicans, but not all the way. Yeah, I don't know what to make of that, because yesterday our Prime Minister talked about all the stuff that we had done at the border and on Fentanyl.

And what I inferred from that was we've done our part. There was no talk yesterday about, but there is still more to do, unless I missed something, and you know, except implementing the plan to its conclusion. So I don't know what Howard Lutnick is saying here. I don't know what sorts of conversations he had with the Canadians. I think Melanie Jolie, I think the Fentanyl czar, I think Justin Trudeau need to answer the question, what conversations did you have yesterday? What did you pull out of your bag of tricks yesterday that you hadn't done yet?

Because that's to me a pretty big question. Like, were there measures that you had yet to implement or tell Lutnik about that you were going to, that you were going to initiate, that you were going to put into your plan on protecting the border and protecting people against fentanyl, that you hadn't done or hadn't been willing to do prior to yesterday? And if not, why not? Because the tariffs are in effect. And if you could have done something to mitigate those things yesterday or two days ago, why did you wait until the tariffs were implemented?

Anyway, this is going to be the long running conversation today and tomorrow. I think the story of what happened yesterday has yet to truly be told. And so we will stay on this story as long as there is juice to squeeze. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for joining us.

And yesterday as I saw the premier of Ontario very emotionally defending the interests of Ontarians and saying that he was gonna inflict the most pain possible. There was a part of me that wondered whether that was the right tactic. Was that too much? Was that too forceful? Was that going to elicit the wrong response from the Americans? Well, as it turns out, Laura Stone from the Globe and Mail broke the news that it in fact,

the response was, I have to believe quite positive because Howard Lutnick called Doug Ford yesterday, asking him about what he meant and how far he was willing to go. And so to drill down on that scoop, I'm very pleased to join for the, I believe the first time on the Ben Mulroney show, Laura Stone, Queens Park reporter for the Globe and Mail. Laura, welcome. Great to be here, Ben. Thanks so much for having me. Okay, so talk to me about what you uncovered yesterday. So it was quite an extraordinary call between Howard Lutnick and Doug Ford. I'm told by sources that Mr. Lutnick reached out to Ford's team shortly after his press conference at Queens Park and that the Commerce Secretary came in hot. It was an aggressive phone call.

It was described as tough. And he essentially kind of began by berating Mr. Ford and saying, you know, I'm here to remind yourself that this is not how you should, I'm here to remind you that this is not how you should conduct yourself. You need to stand down on the strong language and the retaliation that Canada has announced. Essentially, the Premier's response was, no, I'm not doing that. In fact, if I do anything, I'm actually going harder on you guys. Apparently, it was a quite turf exchange for the beginning of the phone call and then you know they talked about fentanyl and and the actions that Canada has taken and and Mr Ford said look

we've kind of done everything we can at this point to work with you and and and I think the message from the premier was I need to stand up for my people and telling Lotnik you would do the same thing for America and that appeared to kind of shift the conversation. And I'm told that Mr. Lutnick softened somewhat after that. And then they had, they began to have a negotiation about trade and tariffs. Yeah, well, that's it. See, that's interesting.

And later on in the 10 o'clock hour, we're gonna have the premier himself join us. So we'll hear from the horse's mouth about the call. But this fits with the narrative that I think the progressive conservatives want, that this is what Doug Ford wanted. He wanted a strong mandate so he could have that very phone call and be that forceful in that moment.

For sure. I think what's really interesting is, you know, the difference that we're seeing between Ontario and the federal government because, you know, Mr. Trudeau came out yesterday also very strong and making kind of a personal plea to the president and I've been told that his comments quoting the Wall Street Journal saying, you know, addressing the president by his first name, Donald, and saying, you're a very smart guy, but this is a very dumb move, really struck a nerve with the White House. And they viewed that as a personal attack on the president.

And I'm told that Lutnick expressed that to Mr. Ford, even though Doug Ford is also kind of trying to needle Mr. Trump, right? He's going on all these American networks. He's saying he loves the Americans, but this is the fault of one guy who's putting your economy at risk. But I think there's clearly no love lost here between the Trump administration and Mr. Trudeau. And we heard Howard Lutnick speaking to reporters last night after the joint address in Congress just saying like it's time for Trudeau to go we need to replace the government in Canada. So there's clearly a difference there in how they view the different administrations.

Oh absolutely and listen I'm never one who enjoys ad hominem attacks amongst leaders but if Donald Trump is able and willing and eager to denigrate and demean our prime minister, whoever that person is, by calling him a governor, then you got to be prepared to be called by your first name. And if you don't like that, then if you can't dish it, or if you can't take it, don't dish it. Yeah, I think the Americans are almost taken aback that Canada has had such a strong approach and there's this attitude that, no, no, you guys don't get to hit us back. You need to do everything that the president says and sort of keep your mouth shut. And obviously the premier's response to that was, no, that's not how we operate.

And I've been also told that by the sources that that's respected by the US. Like if you back down and sort of hide your head in shame they actually go harder on you but they respect when you stand up to them. So it's a really interesting dynamic and there's also so much that's unclear about what this is even about right because we've heard from US officials this is only about the border and fentanyl. Then we have the president talking about bringing industries back to the US, about unfair trade practices, about banking. So this is clearly so much bigger than just the fentanyl problem and the sources.

And I hope you can get this more clarity from the premier on this, but the sources said Lutnick essentially said, yeah, this is part of the negotiation. Let's renegotiate USMCA and come to a deal together. So I think kind of the phone call laid bare the negotiating tactics that the Americans are approaching here at the tariffs. And I think the point kind of to drive home about the call was that, you know, clearly Canada has struck a nerve with the US. They're surprised by their reaction and they may be trying to walk this back today. Yeah, and listen, the fact that we keep hearing from the commerce secretary, the commerce secretary,

that this is a fentanyl issue and not the borders are. Like the point person here is the commerce secretary. And so that tells me that it really, I mean, yes, fentanyl was probably the original, hey, let's call it a fentanyl issue, but that's not the thrust and the driving force of this anymore. And I've got to wonder, yes, fentanyl was probably the original, hey, let's call it a fentanyl issue, but that's not the thrust and the driving force of this anymore. And I've got to wonder, Laura,

I wonder whether the Americans were caught flat-footed because they had, I think they thought they were only gonna be dealing with sort of the federal government on this and reciprocal tariffs. I don't know that they thought that premiers in this country have the ability to inflict damage on the American economy the way that they probably can. So I don't know that they thought that the sort of the

the secondary level of government in the provinces was as influential as it is. The fact that Lutnick has to be talking to a premier is I think significant. I think that's absolutely right. I think they're taken aback by the unity, I guess, of Canada's approach and just how high-profile some of the premiers like Doug Ford has been. I mean, I'm in Washington right now and he's all over the news. I'm watching Fox News and they're talking about his threats to cut off energy supply and to add taxes to electricity. So it's being noticed and I think there's potentially some backlash there among Trump supporters and and kind of the MAGA crowd and the administration of what are we doing here? Is this going to hurt us? And there's a lot of discussion about the markets,

about businesses, about making life more expensive for Americans. I think that they're getting a little bit squirrely here. Now, I'm not going to say that they're going to back down from the tariffs because we haven't heard that message at all and they're still promising to review sort of the trade system later in April. But I think on this kind of across the board tariffs on Canadian goods, there seems to be certainly some revisiting of whether 25% on everything, including autos is the right approach. Well, I think, Laurie, if we see a third straight day of losses on the Dow Jones, I think that's the most compelling evidence that this administration is going to need that the market doesn't have

faith in these tariffs as a net positive? Absolutely. Yeah, I think I think you know, the president has said this takes time. There's going to be some pain and we heard that message, but I think there's going to start to I think people are going to start to get impatient if they start to see their savings and retirement plans go down the drain. And it's not really fulfilling the president's promise to make life better and more affordable for people. So we'll see what happens today. What are you chasing today, Laura? Well, we have the commerce secretary, Lutnick saying that there might be a compromise on some of these tariffs. And he specifically spoke about autos today. He was talking to Bloomberg saying that the president might announce some new tariff plan today.

So this never really ends. We could see some movement on some of the tariffs put in place for the auto sector and other industries, but it looks like there's gonna be some change to the original tariff announcement that was only made a couple of days ago announced later today. Laura, someone's gotta get details from Lutnik as to what those calls that he

supposedly got yesterday on new things on the border because I think we need details as to what Canada was was promising yesterday that we didn't deliver the day before. Yeah, I got a jet but thank you so much. Alright, good luck. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. And this may be a show named after me, but I can't do this without you. And I want to hear from you right now at 416-870-6400

or 1-888-225-TALK. We heard in our previous segment from Queens Park reporter for the Globe and Mail, Laura Stone, that Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick called Ontario Premier Doug Ford yesterday, asking him to back down and to stop being so aggressive in his retaliation against American tariffs. And Doug Ford apparently surprised him and said, absolutely not. In fact, I'm looking to go harder and you would do the exact same thing if I came for

you, which apparently elicited respect from Howard Lutnick. So I'd like to hear from you, what do you think of that phone call? Is it a microcosm of what Doug Ford said he needed in that last election? Or do you think he may be getting into a fight that he just can't win? Welcome to the show, Jeff, Jeff, tell me what you think. Hey, Ben. Yeah, I saw Doug I saw Dougie and heard of it. Of course, I didn't hear the phone call, but, um, I don't have a problem with Ford being tough, but he needs to be careful when he's talking about cutting off their power. Um, you know, a guy like Trump, that would potentially harm individual

citizens, you know, they could lose jobs or power or what have you. You know, Trump could perceive that as a bit of an act of war. You don't know with him. So he's got to be careful. And let's not forget line five runs underneath Lake Michigan. So Gretchen Whitmer could shut that off. Yeah. And we'd have a trouble, we'd have a problem with some oil here in Eastern Canada. So I don't have a problem with Dougie talking tough. By the way, he can't do anything until the legislature goes back anyway.

So he's gotta wait a few weeks for that, apparently. But he needs to tone it down maybe a little bit because you're not quite sure what's gonna happen down there. And it's, as you can, we're talking to Laura, it changes every day. Yeah, it changes every hour headgev thank you so much uh... let's welcome rated and already show i had a great show uh...

uh... i'm not important where forty seven-year-old company in ontario we got two factories ontario one in uh... new york state that and one thing i heard on from speech last night that we're not addressing is Canada's non-trade barriers, such as standardized packaging, which prevents a lot of American

and other countries' goods from entering Canada. Like I can go on and write a book about non-trade barriers because we're a large importer. And the other thing about goods crossing back and forth from manufacturing, there is something called duty drawbacks. So when you import a component, add it to your product, export it, the duty and the components are drawn back.

So you don't have to pay the duty. So I don't think that's gonna affect any manufacturer who knows what duty drive back or does duty drawbacks. Well, thank you very much, Ray. You added some really vital components to the conversation. We appreciate it. Who do we have next? I wanna welcome Donna to the show. Donna, tell me what you think. Ben needs some diplomatic etiquette lessons. He's

like a bull in a china shop. I mean, you can say certain things, but they just you have to be diplomatic about it. You know, when telling people you're going to cut their electricity off, how are the ordinary people going to feel about that? Well, hold on. Donna, just stick with me for a sec. He did say that, but that's like looking at his comments through a keyhole. What he actually said is, I love the Americans, I love America, I don't want to do this.

I want to build, I want to deepen our relationships, I want us all to succeed together. But because of a choice that I want to build, I want to deepen our relationships, I want us all to succeed together. But because of a choice that I did not make, I will have to do this. So it's not exactly what you're you're right. But the proper context is I'm being forced into a position I didn't want to take. You know what, why are we forced to do this? Why didn't we have our socks pulled up all this time? Oh, that's laissez-faire about everything? From the crudo to, you know, I mean...

Listen, that's a whole other kettle of fish. And I enjoy that conversation as much as the next guy. But I think we've got to deal with the issue in front of us, right? And the issue right now is tariffs. So, you know, I would love to relitigate pipelines and liquefied natural gas and our inability to get our natural resources to tidewater and to other markets. That's not the debate we need to be having today because the threat for once is not coming from within the House. Let's welcome Rosa to the Ben Mulroney Show.

Rosa, thank you so much for calling in. Good morning, Ben. Good morning. Like your show. Thank you. I just want to say that sometimes, you know, you have to fight fire with fire. And the disrespect that Trump is showing Canada

and our Prime Minister by calling him the governor, needs to be addressed. And I think the Ford's doing the right thing. Standing up to him, sometimes you need to stand up to the bully in order for the bully to find out that he's got someone that is gonna go neck and neck with him. Yeah, and listen, I think all of us are of two minds, right? We have our rational thought and our emotional thought.

And Donald Trump is very good at making us see red, right? All we can do is think emotionally that we sometimes forget the rational. But there is, and Doug Ford looks like he's acting emotionally at times, but I do think that there's a lot of rationale behind it. And there's nothing wrong with showing your emotion all while trying to put the best tactics forward

in order to protect your province. And if what Laura Stone reported is to be believed, and she's the only one who got the scoop, so I'm gonna believe her, the fact that the strength that was shown and the emotion that was shown by Doug Ford led to Howard Lutnick possibly softening. And then ultimately going back to Donald Trump,

to me says, well, maybe he bet right. I mean, it was a big gamble, but maybe he gambled right. What do you think, Dave? Dave, you think Doug is on the right track here? Absolutely not. No I one of your callers or one of the I think you might have said it someone earlier about the mouse and the elephant here. This is just no way to approach this thing. Doug Ford has a tendency that he's like he's a little bit like Trump. He goes off at the mouth and doesn't think about it. Doug Ford has a tendency that he's like, he's a little bit like Trump. He

goes off at the mouth and doesn't think about it. There's not a plan to do this. As one of your callers just said, the hydro, you're going to cut off the hydro. That's an act of war. You can't do that. But Doug Ford is theatrical. He's just like Donald Trump. He comes out. He has been since he got elected. Don't get me wrong. I support the conservatives, but this is, you know, this grandiose thing. It's sort of like, which premier is the best right now? Who can put on the biggest show? And I'm sorry, I think we're making a huge mistake. And the other thing is, you mentioned about the stock market.

I'd like to know all of Trump's inner circle. I wonder how much money they're making on the stock market right now. Don't think that Elon Musk isn't playing the stock market on this. Hey, Dave, thank you so much for your call. I really appreciate it. Stephen, welcome to the show. What do you think? Well, I think Doug's actually doing a very good job. He's not criticizing, he's criticizing the actions of Trump. unlike our Prime Minister who personally goes and attacks Trump.

Trump's, you know, he's capricious, he's petulant. Trump will respect Doug Ford because he's not attacking him on a personal level, unlike our Prime Minister, who is supposed to be leaving in what, a week? That's what he says. The only time we'll tell. There's suggestions that that date might get pushed back, and we're going to discuss that at the end of the show today. But thank you for your call. Michelle, what say you?

I just wanted to comment that I watched all of the leaders speak after the rebels came in. And with the exception of Mike Shiner, the amount of times that everybody referenced Trump and in particular Ford and his speech, the number of times I heard the words fight, battle, Trump and with the big Canadian flag behind them, I understand the nationalism and how it's important. Hello? Oh, I think we lost Michelle, but thank you for your call. I wish we could have heard the end of that sentence.

Feel free to call back at another time. Instead, we're gonna turn our attention to Mike. Mike, what do you think of all of this? I mean, there's ways of rephrasing comments. I mean, I would put Trump in... Hello? Mike, you still there? I mean, there's ways of rephrasing comments. I mean, I would put Trump in, I would... Hello? Mike, you still there? Yeah, I'm still here.

Yeah. Can you, can you, can you start over? Yeah. I mean, there's ways of rephrasing things. I mean, I would put Trump into the mix. I would set it that Mr. Trump, why would you want to cut power off to your people? You know, use those approaches,

put him into the mix. Trump doesn't like that. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's my approach. That's a good, good point. Yeah, put, put it all on him. Like this is the, the actions that you're taking on our economy have a direct and opposite reaction from our levels of government, which means when you do, when you lay these tariffs, you are also responsible for our follow-through and our reaction. That's a, that's a, that would be an interesting way of phrasing it for sure. I think we got time for one more call, so let's say hi to Glenn. How are you? How you doing? I'm well, thank you.

One of the things that nobody's really mentioned, all of these so-called the specialists that call a year your program trumps big beef is with interest rates uh... he had no control and he wants control there's no control over the fed the bank rates in the u act and the only way he can lower their they've had a six percent uh... interest rate for i don't know how long now it's it seems like years

but the only way he could get that lower by shaking up the the economy. And their lack of investment in the US and construction is all revolving around interest rates. He needs to, he, and this is coming from some people that I know in the US that are saying that he needs to lower the interest rates to get the investment back and to get construction back. And the only way he could do this is by shaking up the economy. And this is one big factor. Alright, well listen, time will tell on that one. I want to thank everyone for their calls. And coming up, I want to know if these tariffs have made you switch your purchasing habits

or where you vacation. Let's see if you're on board with this buy Canadian movement. I want to find out from you on your calls next on the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And you know, sometimes we talk pretty high level stuff on this show. But when it all comes down to it, these tariffs are going to impact Ontarians and Torontonians and people across this country. And so I want to talk to you give us call 416870 6400 or one triple eight two to five talk and tell us How these tariffs are going to affect you? Are you going to change your buying habits? Are you going to change your vacation habits? Are you going to change anything about your life given the fact that?

everything at least until Howard Lutnick Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick finds a microphone today and possibly maybe tells us that there is a quote unquote compromise coming, meeting in the middle, as he said yesterday. You know, we heard earlier during the news with Dave Bradley that people who go routinely to do their grocery shopping across the border, south of the border, they come back, they're getting slapped with the tariffs when they come home. Everything that they're buying is getting more expensive. I guess maybe they thought they could get away with it but that's not happening. And so maybe those people's habits will change. Maybe they've decided

all right I used to used to go grocery shopping in the States I guess I'll just stay home because it's you know pick your poison. Either get slapped with a tariff at the border or get slapped with a tariff when you're at the grocery store. Let's welcome Kyle to the show. Kyle, how are you going to be changing your life? Hey Ben, how are you doing? I'm great, thanks. Great show. So in terms of travel habits, I'm not going to change any travel habits. I was in the US last week, I'll be in the US in two weeks

and I'll be in the US in about four weeks. And those are pleasure trips. So I'm not changing any travel habits, but I am, if possible, if I can see X versus Y and one's Canadian and one's not. I used to not care, now I care a little more. So from a purchase perspective,

am I willing, I am willing to pay a little more and buy Canadian, but in terms of from a travel or business travel, or pleasure travel, I'm not changing those habits, no. Are you gonna take, spend a little more time at the grocery store, making sure that if you can buy something that's Canadian, or at the very least produced and manufactured in Canada, you will? Yeah, if possible. I mean, if it's easy in terms of relatively visually easy saying,

oh, I know that's Canadian, that's not Canadian. Yeah. Certainly, I will. Yes. All right. Well, thank you for your call. I appreciate it. Let's welcome. Who do we have now? We got Henry. Henry, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. So I've studied this idea on prices and people's behavior for a long time. Okay. And it basically comes down to this.

Those that make below average income will always buy the cheapest. Yeah. Price is indicative for them of everything. So they don't have that option. Those at the upper end of the spectrum can make themselves feel better because they they had that option But at the lower end of the spectrum they don't have that option and they will always buy

The cheapest it may not end up being the cheapest but they will always Almost a hundred percent of the hunt for the bargain Looking for the price. No, not necessarily the bargain, the price. They don't have that ability to, you know, if an apple's $2 a pound versus an apple that's a dollar a pound, if the one that's $2 a pound gets you a lot more food or a lot more flesh than the other one, the one at a dollar a pound could end up being more expensive because it has less than half the flesh. Well, thank you very much for the call, Henry.

I appreciate it. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show, James. Good morning, yes. I see a lot of this. I'm not gonna change my spending habits because life's too expensive. If the government really cared about what's going on with these tariffs and stuff like that, that's why I see all this as a big smoke screen, bunch of peacocking, putting their

chest out. You're not going to do that with Trump. If our government did care about us, they'd be pausing the carbon taxes coming up. Well, yeah. So we'll lose some taxes. So all this is just a giant smoke screen. You know, orange man bad. Guess what?

Blackface is even worse. Thank you for the call. And he does make a good point. I mean, look, I don't know how seriously the liberal government took this threat because if they truly took it seriously, they would not have prorogued parliament so that they could have done what needed to be done, including like if there was an honest good faith desire to repeal the carbon tax, I'm pretty sure that happens inside the House of Commons.

That doesn't happen behind a podium and that certainly doesn't happen on the campaign trail with Mark Carney and Christia Freeland. Let's welcome Pierre to the show. Pierre, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hi, good morning. Freeland. Let's welcome Pierre to the show. Pierre, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hi, good morning. Yeah, so our thoughts, carbon tax, of course, like it's been mentioned before, that should go. But apart from that, staying on topic, we are changing our or we have changed our habits as far as we can be. We did cancel a family vacation to the US. They only try to buy Canadian products. And if we can't find Canadian products, we buy non US products. It's just, yeah, we

feel it's the right thing to do. I mean, it is important to recognize that while there are certain companies that are based in America, they they do manufacture or they package that, that product in Canada, and therefore it sustains Canadian jobs. So it's not as easy as just looking for a company that's based in Canada. You're right. That makes sense. But you just got to read the boxes carefully and sometimes do a little bit of search and see what you can come up with. Well, last week on this show I had the

founder of an app called Maple Scan on the show, I had the founder of an app called Maple Scan on the show. You can go to the app store and get it. And if you take a picture of that item, any item, it'll tell you whether it's Canadian or not. It'll tell you how many jobs depend on it. It'll tell you whether or not it's something you want to buy in this environment.

And I thank you very much for your call. Who do we have? We got to Dan on the show. Dan, welcome to the show. Good morning, Ben. Good morning. Thank you. Two things here. One is we can have an emotional response or we can have a pragmatic response. I like the targeted tariffs on Americans where it hurts local like so Kentucky bourbon already the governor of the state is complaining about about the pain. Not just the governor, you got both of the senators as well.

Yeah, it's the way to go. And it's where we can have most power as a small guerrilla tactics for small country. But in general, I wouldn't put tariffs because it comes back to hurt Canadians, it'll cost more for Canadians, then inflation will go up. And I think Ford and everyone else freaking out like crazy, it's to manufacture another crisis so they can print more money, which again, hurts Canadians. Yeah, I don't think I mean, we haven't recovered from the last time we did that. I don't think we've done anything to anything to recover from it yet. So that's the last thing we need. I

got time for one more call. Let's welcome Jeff to the Ben Mulroney show. Hey, Ben, like, we have to stop acting like children. I mean, you know, it's like this don't buy American or anything American is like it's the Americans that come and said, we can't stand Trudeau and his socialist policies, we're not going to buy anything Canadian. Like, it's really short term thinking, we should definitely be buying Canadian, but that

should be a permanent thing, not a temporary thing. Well, I agree. I think we should take more interest in what we build and what we make here, and we as Canadians should prioritize that a lot more than we have in the past. And so if this weakness by, if this moment in time has highlighted something that we

should do better as a nation I'm all for it I'll take the win on that. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show thank you for joining us on this Wednesday I hope you're everyone's gearing up for a good day we don't know with these tariffs now in full effect this is the world we are now living in where enemies are friends and friends are enemies. We're living in the upside down, folks. That's what's happening. And Donald Trump yesterday, before a joint session of Congress, said that yes, these

tariffs have come in and they are going to be beautiful and then they're going to lead to making America great again But there's going to be a little bit of a rough patch first Goods that come in from other companies and companies. They're on it really really in a bad position in so many different ways they're Uninspected they may be very dirty and disgusting and they come in and they pour in and they hurt our American farmers. The tariffs will go on, agricultural product coming into America and our farmers starting on April 2nd, it may be a little bit of an adjustment period.

We had that before when I made the deal with China, $50 billion of purchases and I said just bear with me. And they did. They did probably have to bear with me again. Okay, I can't make hair nor hide of that head nor tales of that. But that's that's what he said. Meanwhile, Pierre Poliev, who ultimately one day wants to be the Prime Minister of Canada took a great issue with the belief, the narrative that the Liberal government under Justin Trudeau has been doing everything they can to stave off this tariff threat, these tariffs that are now in effect. But none of these things have happened in the last hundred days since Trump first launched

his tariff threats. Look behind me. Parliament has been closed. Liberals shut it down to focus on their political battles. So the job-killing carbon tax is still in place. The sales tax is still in place on new homes. The no-new pipelines law is still in place. The massive inflationary deficits are still in place.

Not one law has been changed. Not one tax has been cut. Not one action has been taken to free us from the grip of Trump and the US. We need change. I can't fault him for that. You know, I listened to Justin Trudeau yesterday. There was a lot of good in his speech to the country. There was some stuff I took issue with, but by and large it was what I wanted my prime minister to say.

However, that does not mean that this government gets off scot-free and gets to create a fiction that they have done anything but put their party ahead of the needs of the country. anything but put their party ahead of the needs of the country. When he prorogued Parliament and decided that it was more important for the country with these threats of tariffs on full display, with a target on our back and Donald Trump holding the rifle, with that as the backdrop, he chose the health of his party over the needs of the country. And he prorogued parliament at a time where we needed debate or we needed a non-confidence vote so that we could have an election which would lead to a new strong government. Which, by the way, would be up and running by now

if the election campaign was short enough. So let's be honest here. Let's be honest. And so Pierre Poliev called him out and I have no problem with that. Back to the US side of the border, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said apparently that Canada and Mexico

were on the phone furiously yesterday talking to him and there will likely be a rollback of some of the tariffs today. He's going to come out angry that Americans are still being killed. Now both the Mexicans and the Canadians were on the phone with me all day trying to show that they'll do better. And the president's listening because you know he's very, very fair and reasonable so I think he's gonna work something out with them it's not gonna be a pause under that pause stuff but I think he's going to figure out you do more and I'll meet you in the middle some way will likely be the outcome the

president moving with the Canadians and Mexicans but not all the way he said that a number of times yesterday which leads me to believe that it is going to happen, but I don't know. But I'd like to know what these calls were about. I'd like to know what they were talking about. What did the Canadians promise yesterday that hadn't been offered prior to yesterday? And if they were offering something yesterday, why wasn't it offered sooner? If you're telling me that not every single option was explored before the tariffs dropped, and then and only then did our government say, okay, well, maybe we'd be willing to do this extra stuff that that Mr. Lutnick is referring to.

Well, I've got to wonder why. Why did you let it get to the point where 25% tariffs were dropped on our country? That's a really important question that needs to be put to our leaders. There's also the scenario that I'm willing to entertain that there were no such calls yesterday that the administration saw the reaction by the markets and realized, okay, this is not landing the way we hoped it would land. But still, questions need to be asked and answered. Howard Lutnick also took, I think, a really interesting position where he offered a value judgment on our sitting government. I love when Trudeau was about to leave the government, and obviously he should leave the government with his kind of talking.

You know, he's leaving the government. Hopefully they'll elect someone who's clever, who comes down and says to Donald Trump, we want to do business with you. We want to do business fairly, and we get rid of all this nonsense. They got a digital tax in Canada. They try to tax our tech companies. What happened to USMCA? I'll tell you what happened to it. The Canadians like to cheat. All right. Well, I don't understand how you can take issue with how somebody talks and then you

talk that way. I don't understand how people on your side of the fence are given license to call our leaders, you know, little Justin Trudeau and Governor Trudeau. And then when he calls the Prime Minister, the President Donald, people are ruffles feathers. When he quotes, when our Prime Minister quotes the Wall Street Journal, it calls this tariff plan dumb, that's a bridge too far. If you are willing to dish it, you have to be willing to take it. It's pretty simple. And you're either a tough guy or you're not. And if you're tough enough to hurl insults, you gotta be tough enough

to take them a little bit, especially when you're the ones who started the fight. And lastly, you know, he to be fair to Howard Lutnick, he didn't say he wanted one leader or another. He just said that the leader who's currently in place needs to go. I don't think he crossed any any lines necessarily. But the guy who looks like he's going to replace Justin Trudeau is Mark Carney. And he said another head scratcher yesterday. Let's listen to what he said yesterday about the Canadian economy. Our economy is very strong. Look, this is a serious situation.

And it will cause pain to our workers, pain to our companies, pain to our economy for a period of time. My government, if I am prime minister, will do everything we can to alleviate that. But we're strong. We are strong. And I would say as well, our economy is stronger than the American economy in the medium term. And we are going to be stronger than the American economy, particularly if the U.S. government continues to pursue these types of policies because we are looking to expand our trading relationships. We do have opportunities to build this economy. We do have a better balance sheet than the United

States. We do have a people who are united and determined to move forward. What are you talking about man? Seven days earlier, seven days earlier, you said the Canadian economy has been weak for five years. They predate the problems with Donald Trump. Which one is it, man? Is it strong or is it weak? And if it is stronger than the American economy, by what metrics are you saying that? I, I, I, I, that's a clip that I saw. I haven't seen the whole thing. I would very much like to know, I would love to live in a world where there was significant pushback by the press who were covering that.

Or were they told no questions yet again? Because that doesn't square with what you said seven days ago. Which one is it, sir? Pick your poison! We speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do, business.

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