The Ben Mulroney Show - Did Ontario Premier Doug Ford nail it with his approach to Donald Trump?

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Did Doug Ford nail it with his approach to Donald Trump? -‘Buy Canadian’: Local firms want Toronto council to block Uber and Lyft from city phones with Guest: Harrison Amit, Founder and CEO of HOVR If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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TD, ready for you. Welcome to the Wednesday edition of the Ben Mulrooney Show. Thank you so much for listening. I want to say hello to everybody listening in London, as well as everybody across the GTA. And you might listen to us on the iHeartRadio app, or because you might be in a basement, or you might be in a garage, and that's the only way you can hear the Ben Mulroney show, or you might be listening to us in podcast form. No matter how you consume this show, thank you so very much.

Yes, halfway through the week, it feels like an eternity. The threat of the Donald Trump tariffs, sometimes they're on, sometimes they're off. I believe I told you yesterday, Ben Shapiro referred to it as the tariff hokey pokey. And the latest as we're all really on the edge of our seats is that Donald Trump has backtracked on the doubling of steel and an aluminum tariffs after Doug Ford, Ontario premier Doug Ford, agreed to at least temporarily suspend the 25% exit tax on all the electricity going to the three border states of Michigan, Minnesota, and New York.

And all of this is being done in anticipation of a sit down between our premier and Howard Lutnick, the commerce secretary in Washington DC tomorrow. There's a big debate going on as to whether, like who blinked? What happened here? Who blinked? I am of the opinion that this was the, a volley, an olive branch extended by the administration

to the Ontario government to turn down the heat and have a conversation. And as John Oakley said on this radio station, you're winning if you're talking. And the only person talking to the Americans right now, as far as I can see, is our Premier, which means he's the one winning. And hopefully he can extend that win to all of Canada. But of course, there's a lot of time between now and then.

And who knows when you're dealing with someone as mercurial as Donald Trump But I take it as a win. I take it as a win and look months and months and months ago even in the first Donald Trump administration There was a consensus that be they Democratic leaders or autocratic leaders Donald Trump responded to and respected strength. And so when he stood outside of the White House and gave an impromptu scrum to the media, this is what he had to say about Doug Ford. Now I will say this, that already Canada,

and I respect very much, as you know, there's a very strong man in Canada who said he was going to charge a surcharge or a tariff on electricity coming into our country. He's already, he has called and he said he's not going to do that. Okay, not going to do that. And it would have been a very bad thing if he did and he's not going to do that. So I respect that. But we were just informed that he's not going to do that. Yeah, I mean, that's partly right. Yeah, he said he's going to pause them for now. And I think that was a sign of goodwill to say, yes, I want to talk to you.

Like, if you believe that by and large, the idea of diplomacy being, you know, war being an extension of diplomacy by other means, this is a trade war. And so one thing leads right to the other. You slap the bully in the face, he takes note, and then you say you're not going to do it again until you can hash out your problems. So let's hear from the tough man himself, Doug Ford. That's not going to be good. I'll tell you, I know Americans fairly well. They're loving, caring people. And as soon as costs start going up, inflation, plants start shutting down. You can't attack your number one customer, Canada,

and not expect a response. And we responded, and they came back. And I'm a business person. I want to sit down and negotiate this and stop the bleeding. Yeah, I take this man at his word. I think what he says is the reality that we're living in. And so the way he just described things, I think, is a more accurate description of what's going on between Canada and the United States. Now, yesterday on the John Oakley show, John had the premier himself Doug Ford on. And let's listen to a little bit of that conversation. Johnny, when he reached out to me today, and extended an olive

branch, I couldn't help but say yes, I respect negotiations. Cooler heads need to prevail. Because going back tit for tat and hurting Americans and Canadians and in particular Ontarians, you know, you just don't do that. Be a foolish business person, foolish premier that would say no, see you later and hang up. Now, a lot of people are thinking that Doug Ford blinked, that he removed the threat. He wasn't willing to go all the way in a game of brinksmanship.

He's the one who blinked first. Here's what Doug Ford said about the tariffs if the threat of tariffs is not removed. Well, I believe, and I'm not speaking for the president or anyone, I truly believe he's gonna pull back on those. And that's part about olive branch and I can't guarantee it. But if he does, I'll tell you one thing,

we will match tariff for tariff dollar for dollar on those tariffs as they move forward on aluminum and steel. Yeah, here's the most mind boggling thing of what he's talking about is, what he's talking about is what he's talking about should be said by our federal leaders. They are Donald Trump's counterpoint.

And the fact that a provincial leader, the fact that the Premier of Ontario is the one saying those things speaks to the abdication of responsibility that our government in Ottawa has done. It is a dereliction of duty that this has been forced onto Doug Ford. Doug Ford should want his partners in Ottawa doing this heavy lifting. This is not his job. This is not what he's paid to do. And the fact that he is doing it speaks to a liberal government so consumed

with getting itself reelected, so consumed with dressing itself up as not the party of the past, not responsible for the last nine years. We have a new leader. As somebody said, we got a new leader. It's like making a mess in your pants, but changing your shirt.

This is a snapshot of the dysfunction that has been foisted upon us by this government that has chosen party over country. There is no other way to look at it. If they had chosen country first, they would be leading in Washington. They are not, Doug Ford is. That's how I see it.

You can tell me I'm wrong. But finally, let's listen to this last piece of audio from the John Oakley show with Doug Ford. So what I'd rather see, Johnny, is let's both tear us right off the board. Let's get down to negotiating the USMCA deal as quickly as possible. And that's what we need to do.

Going back and forth for the next month will hurt our economy tremendously and hurt their economy tremendously. Nobody knows what is going to happen in this meeting. Nobody knows what the next few days and weeks are going to be like. However, this to me is the first glimmer of hope that somebody who understands the lay of the land as to what Canada is willing to do to get through this, the risks that we are willing to incur as a nation, the pain that we are willing to undergo versus the sunny ways and promises

that Donald Trump is breaking because of this foolish tariff war. In other words, there is a path now that makes sense to me where this threat of tariffs could be removed. And if Doug Ford is responsible for that, the ramifications federally in the next election are myriad. If all of a sudden in the next couple of weeks we are not dealing with the

threat of tariffs anymore, are we back to a carbon tax election? That is a question that we're going to be exploring on the Ben Mulroney Show today and in the next few days because my head is spinning over what this could potentially mean for our country, for the next government, and for the role of Doug Ford as possibly a federal leader at some point in his future. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you so much for spending some of your day with us right now. I want to hear from you at 416-870-6400 or one triple eight two two five talk.

We're talking about this meeting that has been I believe months in the making between our premier Doug Ford and one of the his counterparts in the US administration, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. It is slated for tomorrow. And so I want to have I want to ask you, does this prove Doug Ford's approach was the right one? Has he been vindicated? Or do you feel that this is him backing down before the deal is done? Let's go to the phones and let's say hi to Frank. Frank, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Good morning, Ben. Absolutely. I believe he's vindicated himself. You know, leadership situation with a trade war is a dynamic situation. And in the circumstances that requires to shift in your decisions as circumstances unfold. He rose to the occasion for it.

And you know, what's really, really important, what I saw in terms of why he's been fully vindicated in the circumstances, I've seen a lot of network broadcasters, political analysts make it very clear. They said a lot of positive things about Doug Ford in terms of his approach and that they empathize with Canada's position. And I also like the fact, very much so, is that Donald Trump acknowledged Ford as a tough guy. And basically he's earned a grudging respect from Donald Trump.

And I think this is what we needed in these dire circumstances to shift the dynamics from a hostile situation in terms of how the federal government did it before also conceding to an olive branch to bring about some positive changes and maybe concessions that will settle a lot of things. Frank, thank you so much for your call. And like, let me be clear, like, when I hear some of the voices coming out of Ottawa, the feds in Ottawa, every now and then one of them fires a cheap shot at Donald Trump. And so they they talk about having productive relationships and then we get a cheap shot,

right? We saw it from the prime minister, the former prime minister, Justin Trudeau, who chastise Americans for not electing Kamala Harris. Doug Ford has been entirely, 100% consistent with his messaging and his tone. The only thing that has changed is his emotional response, which every Canadian would understand and every American that I believe he has talked to through the American media understands as well. He has been a steady hand on the rudder versus the vacillating that comes out of Washington

as well as Ottawa. And that to me, in my as one man's opinion is exactly what has been needed in this moment. Tom, welcome to the show. Thanks for calling. Hey, Ben, I personally think Doug Ford's gone as far as he can go in regards to getting talks with with the U.S. I think that's a portion of the issue. And I really think the bigger issue is with the federal government because you have to have a plan. So he's got talks with with the U.S. But you need a plan. You need to diversify your strategy. You need to have trade with all other countries. And this is something that's kind of outside of his lane. But as far as him standing up for Canada,

so to speak, I think he's done a pretty well job. But I really do think you need a plan behind the scenes. Well, and, and, and, and Tom, you're absolutely right. I suspected that there are conversations happening between, I mean, I don't know who's in charge in Ottawa right now. Is it the prime minister designate? Is it still Justin Trudeau? Like, I have no idea. But there must be conversations happening

between them and Doug right now, so that somehow Doug is able to message the federal response and the federal plan and the vision while he's in that meeting with Howard Lutnick. That to me feels like while you're in the room, you might as well say, okay, well, you're not talking to Ottawa, but here's what Ottawa would like me to tell you.

I don't know. It seems like that would be something that they would be discussing right now. I don't think Doug would go down there without checking with Ottawa. Hey, let's welcome Joe to the Ben Mulroney show. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. I think publicly he's doing a great job. But behind closed doors, Trump's reps are saying we're gonna put the screws to you if you keep

talking like this, because our only trading partner is Ontario with America. Ontario does not have any ports, deep water ports to ship throughout the world. They have to go through Montreal. That costs money. The most efficient, effective way is through Ontario to the states. And this is where Ontario's bread and butter is. And Joe, stick with me here. But here's my counter to that. And by the way, I take your point. But here's my counter to that. Doug Ford could go in that room and he could say, I have a mandate from my people to get us through this, no matter what.

I have told them, I got elected telling them that things could get really bad for us in this province, economically, financially. You, sir, Mr. President, promised your people that the best days are ahead of you. You promised it on day one. Take a look at your stock market, sir. Take a look at what's happening to the market. Take a look at consumer confidence. Take a look at your poll numbers. Take a look at at the potential races that you're trying to hold in the Senate and the House of Representatives. Imagine what that's going to do for your final two years in office. Sir, I am ready for a recession.

You promised anything but. And so you're sowing chaos. I'm going to lean into that chaos. So what do you say to that? I said Trump has only four years. He says he's going to put prosperity on the table of the American and he will at the expense of Ontario. Ontario only has to lessen the impact of that, of the taxes or whatever you want to call it, of the impact of this happening. So I can say what level of pain do you want? I feel pain every day. Sometimes it's acceptable but now now he's in the fact of that pain saying to the public of Ontario's listen, I'm doing everything I can. Yeah,

we're dealing with behemoth country here. Yeah, the best I can. And guess what? I as an Ontario will say, he's right. We're dealing with a lion. Yeah. We're a spec. Yeah, I appreciate everything you're saying. You're not saying anything I disagree with. I just think that Doug can communicate that we are in this moment able to punch above our weight. That's just that. And that's my hope as well. Again, when you're dealing with a Donald Trump,

you don't know there's too many wild cards at play. Roger, welcome to the show. Thanks for calling in. Hey, good morning. You know what? I think Doug Ford is doing a darn good job. You know what really should have happened last night? They should have woke up our Governor General,

put a Bible in the hand of one of them, and had the elected Prime Minister from the Liberal Party signed in and become the Prime Minister and put him on the plane Thursday down there with Doug Ford and with Mr. Blank. This is a national issue with Doug Ford and with Mr. Blank. You know, this is a national issue. Doug Ford's doing a great job for Ontario, but this is going to be a real big deal all across Canada if it doesn't get solved.

And I agree with you. And listen, if the polls are to be believed and they have tightened as much as some polls are suggesting, it boggles my mind that in this, the most important moment in modern Canadian history, we don't have a functioning government in Ottawa. And that was a decision made entirely by Justin Trudeau and his team. And why that isn't sticking to the liberals at this moment confounds me.

It really confounds me. We've got time for one more call. Arvind, thanks for calling in. Yeah, absolutely right. And he's got a lot of leverage. And even when he talks about the critical minerals, 80% is coming from China, and China is putting a ban on export

of the critical minerals to the US and Northern Ontario and the rest of Canada has the largest deposit in the world for that. So we, and Doug Ford, he's got a lot of leverage and he's gotta keep on going at it. Yeah, Arvind, thank you so much for your call. I agree with what you say there as well. And I believe that he will be an effective communicator

of those things in the room. Whether or not his message is a seed that finds purchase, I don't know, None of us do. But the fact is we are farther ahead in these conversations today than we were yesterday. And all credit goes to Ontario premier Doug Ford. Hi, I'm Donna Friesen from Global National. Life moves fast these days and we want to make it even easier for you to get the news you need.

That's why you can now get Global National every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award-winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day so take this as your personal invitation to join us on the Global National podcast. You can find it on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favourite podcasts. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much. A story that has gripped the City of Toronto since Friday night is the brazen shooting inside a pub in Scarborough. Three masked men walked in and just opened fire. Twelve people injured, some by bullet and some by broken glass,

and mercifully by divine intervention perhaps, nobody perished due to that. So thank God for that. However, the police in the city of Toronto are working around the clock to locate those who perpetrated this vicious and heinous crime. They put out a post, they said, our thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones

as they recover from the senseless act of gun violence. Officers have been working around the clock gathering evidence, speaking with witnesses, and pursuing every lead to identify and locate those responsible. We will provide updates on this active and complex investigation as soon as it is appropriate to do so.

So what I hear there is either they don't have enough information that would be helpful to provide or the information they have needs to remain confidential so that they can build on it and ultimately give people the information that will give them peace, that will give them a sense of peace while they're living on a knife's edge. That's what this statement conveys to me. So when I hear counselor Michael Thompson on John Oakley's show yesterday provide information that the cops didn't, I'm a little concerned. Here's what he said about what we should be preparing for in the coming days. You know, the shooting that transpired on Friday night

at the Piper Arms is related to other ongoing incidents regarding tow trucks in my community immediately and beyond. What we've seen in those cases is that when an incident occur, there's the expectation that another one will follow in terms of retaliatory. And so the information that had been communicated to me is that counselor be prepared,

that something will happen very soon. And this isn't to scare anybody or make people afraid. It is just the information that's been conveyed to me. I've conveyed that information to the appropriate authority. I was asked the question and I responded in the fashion based on the information that has been given to me. Now I'm going to assume that Michael Thompson is a good faith operator and he cares very much about his constituents and his community. But you can say you're not saying it to spread fear, but you're going to scare people with

that. People were already scared because of what happened and now you're telling them brace for retribution. And I appreciate that somebody conveyed information to you and you did the responsible thing and brought it to the police. But we as citizens taking in this information, know nothing about that information. We don't know if it's reliable. We don't know if the person telling you

has any basis for being accurate. For example, just yesterday on Alex Pearson's show, I was listening and she had a caller who called in and said with great conviction and determination that this absolutely was not related to tow trucks and if you believed this person then you're walking around saying it has nothing to do with tow trucks. I have no idea if this guy knows anything. I take him as just one guy in his opinion, but when a city counselor comes out and says this,

there is a level of credibility that automatically gets ascribed to that information. And then the next question I have is, if you provided this information to the police, they took it in, they ingested it, they absorbed it and put it into their collection of information that is making up their investigation. If they determined that they were not going to release it,

that I've got to ask why. Maybe they haven't vetted it properly yet. And in which case, why sir, are you putting it out there for public consumption? He went on to talk about tow trucks and organized crime. There's a category of different industries of people and players that are all sort of commingled into one another and the base of it, John, as I've been able to sort of detect is really money.

Is it gangs, organized crime? Well, I mean, I'm not the expert in that area, but I would just simply say that anyone who are is involved in these types of illegal activities in some way, shape or form, they're organized and in some way, shape or form, they are part of a criminal enterprise and so on, because it's not a legitimate business that's actually operating, getting license and permits and so on. And that we know and have sort of a sense as to who owns the, you know, an operation and who's conducting business in a legal fashion.

So I would have to surmise it is quite, you know, equivalent to the comments that you've just made. All right. So again, in layman's terms, so the Piper Arms was targeted because it might be affiliated with some of these. Well, you follow the money and it was I guess an establishment set up by Certain means that's not what I'm saying, but that's the information that's being put forward I don't actually have any evidence of that

It is just that it's being stated and as such As I've said time and time again anyone who has information should bring that forward to the police. I appreciate that Michael Thompson is trying to help and be helpful and directing people to the police. But again, if he's passed this information on to the police and they have chosen to withhold it from the public, isn't that for a reason? Aren't they withholding it for a reason? And in which case, why is a city councilor surmising and guessing and suggesting

and putting ideas into people's heads that may not be factually accurate or germane to the conversation? Two things can be true. We can have a massive tow truck violence issue in this city. And what happened at the pub may not have had anything to do with that. We don't know because the police haven't told us. And I don't know that Michael Thompson or anyone should be putting it out there in that fashion.

And I want to stress again, this is not an attack on Michael Thompson. I believe him to be in this moment a good and honorable man who thinks that he is doing what he needs to keep his community safe. I just don't know that it's the right move. Here is Mark Saunders speaking to Greg Brady a little bit earlier on his think tank panel about Thompson's comments. Well, they're informed of speculation because he clearly doesn't stand behind it with great depth or gravity. And listen, Councillor Thompson is a seasoned councillor. He's been with the city for a long time.

He sat on the police board for a multitude of years. This is an ongoing investigation. This is an international investigation. BBC was reporting this as well as other places around the world. And he's got 12 people shot in the bar, three outstanding suspects who are obviously bad National Investigation, BBC was reporting this as well as other places around the world. And you've got 12 people shot in the bar, three outstanding suspects who are obviously bad dudes. The police want to find these people.

The police want witnesses. The police want to do everything they can to bring these people before the courts. But if you have rhetoric that scares people, it could be people sitting on the fence and you hear a person in authority who his words have more weight say things like there's gonna be retaliation and there's gonna be revenge I'm sure of it and then when you ask a little further there's no backing it up. Now he did the right thing and he said that he passed it on to the police so he has really he's not gonna be witnessed in any, shape or form. Well, you know, I hadn't heard Mark Saunders' comments

and his assessment, but I'm comforted knowing that my opinions line up pretty squarely with the former chief of police. And he knows the inner workings of these investigations. He understands the reasoning behind withholding information. So I wanna hear from you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. Do you think that the counselor's decision

to go public with what he thinks he knows was of benefit to the community? Again, we're dealing with a lot of hot button issues on the show recently, and so I'm gonna do my best not to ratchet up the temperature. I don't think that's helpful. I'm not looking to attack the city councilor because we have enough,

this issue is already hot enough without trying to put a target on somebody's back. I just don't know that it's helpful. I don't know if it's of benefit. I don't know, like, and look, I get it, right? Five days in and we don't have any information, nature abhors a vacuum and it always looks to be filled. And an information vacuum needs to be filled.

And counselor Thompson came in and filled it with what he thinks is the the best available information but in a moment like this Where people are scared? I don't know that it was helpful at all to suggest brace for impact because things are gonna get worse before they get better and I'm gonna speculate as to who's you know, who's in who's responsible and why they're responsible. And as Mark Saunders said, if you push them a little bit, it really came down to speculation based on what is probably, without proper vetting, unreliable information. We all get unreliable information. Anybody who calls into this show speaks with great conviction,

but doesn't necessarily have the domain expertise to speak with authority. And when a city counselor speaks, there is a certain amount of credibility that is lent to whatever they are saying. And they are in a position of authority in our community. And so you, you automatically think that what this person is saying isn't just pulled out of thin air, but is in fact, a very credible piece of information. And to tell people of a community that are already scared for their lives, that they could be walking down the street and get shot because they just saw it happen at a pub, to say that that could happen again, I know you're saying I'm not saying this to scare people, but you are absolutely scaring people. I mean, I'm scared when I hear something like that

from a city counselor. Anyway, I hope I conveyed the balance in what I just said, because I'm not looking to come after the city counselor in any way, but I just don't think that, I think you've gotta defer to the police in a moment like this is the stakes are far too high, far, far too high. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and clear across this

country, different levels of government are looking at ways to support the businesses that exist in this country in the face of, you know, their weakening positions as it relates to sales and trade with the United States. And at the local level here in Toronto, there has been a push by City Council to promote the idea that we should be buying from Canadian companies and possibly even excising Americans from any sort of government contracts, city work, and the like. There has been a push by a number of cab companies as well as a rideshare company that say, we are Canadian companies and we want you to put your money where your mouth is.

And if you're willing to disavow American companies as it relates to city contracts, the same should be done for rides that are taken by city workers who are able to then invoice those rides back to the city. If you're taking an Uber or if you're taking a different type of a ride that you get paid back for, that money should be spent on Canadian companies. And I am speaking now with one of the people

who wrote to the city on this, Harrison Emmett, the founder and CEO of Hover, which is a rideshare company based here in the city of Toronto. And in full disclosure, I am an advisor to Hover. Harrison, welcome to the show. Hey, Ben, how are you? I'm good.

Now listen, I'm not talking to you as an advisor to the company, as I've spoken about it many times on the show, I believe in this company. But so I'm gonna ask you some of the questions that some people listening may have. And so firstly, I'm a big believer in one of the best ways for this country

and to thrive in the face of Donald Trump is more competition, you know, opening up, breaking down barriers. Square the circle for me, how does limiting people's options and telling them use hover over Uber help in any way? Yeah, I mean, I think the conversation is really about supporting the Canadian companies Canadian options that are available. It's not about like limiting the options is

about more proactively promoting what's out there and what's available. You know, at the end of the day, we are here, Hover's here, and we're here to help. And the city's got some problems. And you know, whenever they're working with the other competitors, they generally don't have a good response.

But we're here to be collaborative. We're here to have like the Canadian approach to things. And that letter was really about looking at putting a putting hover in front of the city council to allow their councillors to make the best decision possible. I mean, you can't force people to do something, but if they know about it, then they can make the decision. And I'm happy to say that I won't name names, but we saw some councillors yesterday taking hover rubs. So I'd like to say that it worked. Yeah. So one thing that surprised me about this,

and you and I actually haven't talked about this yet, but one thing that surprised me was that cab companies are working in conjunction with a rideshare company. You've got the co-ops and the becks of the world literally throwing in with a rideshare company. And years ago ago it was always an us versus them mentality. So is it is it the enemy of my enemy is my friend or is there a reprochement here between

you know this Canadian option as a ride share option and the cab companies themselves? Yeah, I mean, transparently, Ben and you're right, we haven't actually talked about this yet. But I've spoken to some of the cab companies and I've said, hey, listen, I'm not here to damage your business. Like how do we work together? You know, like I mentioned just a second ago, hover's here to kind of take the Canadian approach to everything we do. It's about collaboration is how we can, you know,

augment the city's mobility options. And at the end of the day, if cab drivers want to be involved in the hover application, it's just about the negotiations between the brokerages and us. And we're going ahead with these conversations. You know, our competitors came in and just bulldozed the whole industry, the whole taxi industry. And that's why there was such a backlash and reaction. But with us, they're seeing us as an ally.

You know, it's less about my enemy's enemy, but more about, hey, there actually may be a future forward with everybody playing under the same umbrella. Yeah, and the one sticking, because I take Uber's point when they say, hey, we employ people in Canada, we have an office here, we pay taxes here and all that. I take that point, but fundamentally, it is an American company. And as somebody, I believe, from the taxi industry

pointed out a little bit earlier today Uber donated a million dollars to the Donald Trump inauguration and the CEO of Uber donated an additional million dollars So it's really hard to square that circle in my mind No, I completely agree with you I think there was a statistic that I read that 11 cents of every dollar actually ends up staying in Canada versus the Canadian option Where it's a heck of a lot more. Yeah, and look, now I am gonna put my advisor hat back on and remind people that nobody, because ultimately a company like Hover wants to go

toe to toe with the Ubers and the lifts of the world. But in a case, specific case where a government is saying, we want to promote Canadian at this moment where it's vital. Hover and the cab companies are simply saying, if that's the case, we want in on that program. Exactly. Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you, Harrison, for joining us here. I've been speaking with Harrison Amott, the founder and CEO of Hover.

And as I said before, I want to state it again, I have a stake in the company and I do believe in it. And I was happy for the chat. Hey, thanks man. Great to chat with you as always. We'll talk soon. All right. Hey, so one of the conversations that we are going to be

having over the course of today is that the Toronto police had to apologize and delete a podcast where two officers, I believe of the Muslim faith, were sitting around a table dressed as police officers with the TPS logo on the table, suggesting that October 7th led people to either convert to Islam or understand Islam in a more positive way. As AM 640 was all over this story yesterday. From Greg Brady to myself to Alex Pearson, we applied pressure and we dug into this and I believe that partly got action on that front that the police apologized, deleted the podcast, but now we're at a place where there are certain

groups demanding even more. Some are demanding censure. Some are demanding suspension. Some people going as far as asking for these police officers to be fired. I think there's a middle ground that we can land on that should make everyone happy. I believe. Look, we always talk about when somebody runs a foul of LGBT rules, they go in for sensitivity training, right? I think these police officers need some sensitivity training as it relates to the rampant anti-Semitism that has gripped this city and a belief by a great many people in the Jewish community that the police have not been there for Jews. And for these police officers to have said, it's not about that,

it's actually about this, I believe requires, if sensitivity training is what Jordan Peterson had to go through, then these police officers should have some form of re-education or education on that front to then be able to come out and regain the confidence of a great many people who perhaps have lost confidence in them. I do not like the idea of canceling people, I do not like the idea of firing people,. I do not like the idea of firing people.

I do believe that people can learn from their mistakes. And if this was truly a mistake, then the police specifically as a force and these two officers can learn from that. I heard in them what sounded like rational men. Here's hoping that's the case. This is Carry the Fire. I'm your host, Lisa Laflamme.

Carry the Fire, a podcast by the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation featuring inspiring personal stories about what happens when world-leading doctors, nurses, researchers and their patients come together to ignite breakthroughs. Carry the Fire launches Monday January 27th wherever you get your podcasts.