The Ben Mulroney Show - Do BC teachers want to "queer nature"? HUH?

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

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It is Tuesday, the 2nd of December 2025. Thank you so much for starting your day with us. And thank you for watching us on YouTube or listening to us on all platforms, whether it be the radio or a streaming app or a podcast platform. Or you may find little snackable moments of the show on Instagram or on Twitter. We say thank you. We say welcome. And we're really happy to build the Ben Mulroney Show community together.

Earlier in the day, I was talking with Mike Drolle, my intrepid producer, who's not feeling well today, but he's going to join me in the next segment. And we were talking about maybe one day taking the show to Vancouver for a week. We'd love to do the show from there and walk the streets and meet the people and really get to know the issues of British Columbia a little better than you can from Toronto. But from our vantage point here in Toronto, and you'll excuse me, Vancouver, if you think this is a little too forward. But something's going on in British Columbia. Something's really, something weird is going on. About a month ago, we had a BC parent on the show.

Briona Dixon, and she was removed from a school district's international homestay program citing her public political activities and her express views on sexual orientation and gender identity curriculum as the reason. Her perspective was like, look, I want everybody to live together. I want everybody to be respected. I just don't know that she should be taught in classes. And she was a committed parent who wanted to open her home to international students. And she was denied that privilege because they didn't like her perspective on sexual orientation and gender identity. And again, like I said, her, she, her, she, her, it's not her issues. It's the fact she spoke about them publicly and didn't think that the school should be, uh, teaching

this stuff. And as a reminder, because this is equally odd, um, because it's equally odd BC stuff. The Vancouver Park Board, you'll remember this, had to apologize for hosting a Harry Potter experience event, citing harm to the 2S LGBTQ plus community because of J.K. Rowling's views on gender identity. Let's listen to the Vancouver Parks Commissioner disavowing J.K. Rowling. We unequivocally support the lives and rights of TGD2S people. It also publicly disavows J.K. Rawlings' political activity and recognizes the harm that that causes globally. The harm that it causes globally. She actually pointed out she didn't know that she'd been disavowed or is she ever been avowed and suggested that the next time they let her know that

she's been avowed so that she can properly allow the disavowal to sink in. Okay, so that's BC from the snapshot that we saw before. This next story is like a hold my beer situation because if you thought that was kooky, get ready. So the BC Teachers Federation is suggesting and, encouraging educators to queer the outdoors. That's the expression. It's time to queer nature.

Using nature lessons, plants, animals, clouds, trees to challenge heteronormativity, binary gender concepts and to center queer identities even in early grades. I'm going to read that sentence for you again. BC Teachers Union is encouraging educators to queer outdoor education. using nature lessons of plants, animals, clouds, and trees to challenge heteronormitivity, binary gender concepts, and to center queer identities even in early grades. That's all the words. That's all, all the words that you would expect to hear from a certain type of activist in one sentence.

The curriculum promotes linking natural concepts to LGBTQ plus themes, invasive plants as metaphors for oppression the fluidity of clouds tied to gender fluidity and frames this as a response to political backlash against sexual orientation and gender identity policies urging teachers to integrate these ideas

across all subjects here are some examples for you rejecting binary categories encouraging children to question concepts like male female or right and wrong by observing nature fluidity of natural elements using clouds changing shapes

as metaphors to discuss gender fluidity and personal identity the diversity of trees pointing out that some trees are straight and some are gnarled to help children question norms about identity and appearance invasive species as social metaphors

having children remove invasive ivy and using it as a metaphor for oppression of queer people highlighting that queer people have always been here like native plants And here's my favorite decolonizing nature education, teaching that binary gender ideas in nature, like the birds and the bees, reflect colonial narratives and encouraging students to view nature through an anti-colonial lens. Look, man, enough. This is exhausting.

This is exhausting. Where do I start? I want to live in a world from a few years ago where I thought, I thought what we wanted to teach kids was, hey, it's okay to be yourself and respect everybody else for being themselves. And now that we've taught you that, which took five seconds, let's get back to reading, writing, and arithmetic. Let's get back to the stuff that we are failing our children at.

You know, I keep watching these clips online of progressing, Locked in battle with conservatives, and the progressives will look at the conservatives and say, why are you so obsessed with gender and how people want to be seen? And then I read something like this, and I ask a question, who's the obsessed one? Who's obsessed?

This is a single-minded obsession on gender. While the rest of the world is teaching their kids how to code and how to work with AI, we're trying to convince kids that clouds are a metaphor for gender fluidity? And I'll ask the question, to what end? To what end are we taking kids into nature and queering the natural world? To what end, BC Teachers Union?

Why? What are you trying to get across? Because I look at this and I think, okay, we're past respecting one another, acknowledging, seeing one another, saying, you know what? I see you for who you are and I respect you for who you are. We're past that here. This is something, this is a completely different space. This is brainwashing.

You want to take a six-year-old, seven-year-old, eight-year-old, and take them into nature and say, you see everything around you? This is proof of my worldview, of the worldview of this teacher who wrote this. That's not education. That is beyond indoctrination. It is brainwashing. And I've said this before.

You are playing with fire here. Playing with fire, Teachers Union of British Columbia. Because some charismatic right-wing politician will rise at some point as a reaction to this. We'll harness the frustration of parents and parents and others. Get them off the couch to vote for that person. And that person is going to make your right-wing nightmare look like Elizabeth. May. This will be on you when some guy comes up and harnesses the frustration and anger and confusion of all these people who normally would just sit on the couch and they're going to,

and he's going to say, or she's going to say, I have a solution for you. And the solution you ain't going to like because it's going to be unlike any solution you've ever heard before. And I'm not advocating. I'm warning against it. This needs to stop. This is insane. This also flies. This is not, this is, this is factually incorrect. The natural world relies on the male, female binary. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you. There's this meme circulating online where somebody says, hey, ask a queer person what gender their, their, their pet is, and then ask them how they know. And the answer is simple. You can see it on the undercarriage of the animal.

The animals are not living in the world where they see themselves as anything but what nature made them. I'm sorry to have to say that, but you're forcing me into this position. You're forcing me to say these things because you are taking a sliver of appreciation and acknowledgement by someone like me and you are running with it to an insane conclusion. And the only reaction is an antidote of truth and you're not going to like it. You're not going to like it. You've got to get out of the way

and let teachers teach because this is insane. This is insane. And I'm telling you, logic and reality are going to smack you in the face and you're not going to like it. Up next,

what to make of a cabinet shuffle is Mark Carney dusting off a Trudeau classic? Yeah, he is. Yes, indeed. Not necessarily back in black, but back in liberal red. Everything that was old is new again. Mark Carney has returned Mark Miller to cabinet. We expected a cabinet shuffle after Stephen Gilbo resigned. And so there was a shuffle that was imminent. And a shuffle we indeed had. Mark Miller becomes the Minister of Canadian Culture and Identity and Minister for Official Languages. Now, before we delve into this entire thing. Please welcome to the show from home. He's joining us because he's not feeling well. But he's doing yeoman's work from there and he's keeping the trains running on time. Please welcome my intrepid producer. Mike Drolay to the show. Mike, how are you doing?

How are you feeling? I'm doing great. I'm sure I sound like, you know, nightingale right now. You sound, you sound like an ogre. You sound like a goblin that lives under a bridge that I have to answer. Answer me these riddles three before I let you pass. But anyway, I've got a few riddles there for you. Honestly, I did not see Mark Miller coming back into cabinet. The general trend was of Mark Carney sort of shedding the defining aspects of Justin Trudeau's cabinet and his caucus and bringing in new voices and trying to put his own stamp on this government. So what did you make of see Mark Miller coming back into the fold? Well, I was surprised as well, considering what happened with the Trudeau government

and considering how he was the Minister of Immigration when basically all the, everything was taken off, all the all these sort of the rules and regulations were gone. And, you know, yeah, he's been pointed at as one of the people who were really pushing for that. So I thought that he wanted to, I thought Carney wanted to separate. himself from the Trudeau government and from the Trudeau past, from the legacy. Yeah. I do you think that this brings it back? This is the thing that reconnects them.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think you're right. What I'm finding interesting, though, is what to make of this new liberal government's policy and vision on the environment, because it's all over the place. And I don't mean that in a negative, in a negative thing at all. Like, I think they have been able to be a lot.

of things to a lot of people for a very long time and now it feels like they have to pick a lane and I think they're sort of they're flirting between the left lane and the right lane right now and what I mean by that is you know for the long time I had no problem being uh Stephen Gilbo being being the attack dog on the environment for a very long time he resigned over the federal Alberta energy memorandum of understanding which suspends clean electricity rules removes the oil and gas emissions cap and backs a new bitumen pipeline and apparently says the candidate will now miss our 2030 climate targets. And you'll remember, Elizabeth May said she would vote for the budget because she got guarantees directly from the prime minister that we were not going to miss

any of those targets. And now she says she regrets voting for the budget. So you've got that going on. Now you got Gilbo sort of untethered by by cabinet saying what he really thinks. And the environment minister, Julie DeBruson, saying, well, let's listen to what she told Vasi Capolos on CTV about our climate goals. It's always been ambitious. I think that we actually always knew it was ambitious. And I believe that we've said that before. But beyond that point, you know, we have a climate competitiveness strategy that actually sets out that we're going to strengthen the industrial carbon price right across the country. We are strengthening methane regulations.

We're actually going beyond it and applying methane regulations to landfills. We're investing in clean electricity through clean electricity ITCs. Yeah, again, I'm trying to figure out what they are because you've got Mark Carney, the candidate, who was Mark Carney of the book Values. He was the net zero guy.

He was really pushing the ball on the price on carbon. And the first thing he does when he becomes prime minister, he gets rid of the consumer carbon tax. and look, you're not going to have any complaints from me that he's helping, he's plowing the road so that we can build another pipeline. Like, I'm not going to complain about that. You've got a former environment minister in Gilbo who leaves, you've got Elizabeth May of the Green Party saying that she was, without saying it, she's essentially saying that she was sold the bill of goods on the environment. And now you've got the environment minister saying, no, no, we've got an ambitious climate goal. So which one, like, what is the environment to this liberal party?

You have to wonder. And remember, Gibo was the hawk. He was the environmental hawk that he really pushed stuff. He did not, he basically didn't say didn't care about the economy. He only cared about the environment. Yeah. And, you know, we should all care about the environment. We should all care which way we're going.

But I think Canada's got some big issues right now. And you have to find a happy media. Yeah. And again, I just, their identity on, on climate is a confusing one. It's all over the place. And I, I, I don't know what to make of it on. So it's, it's one of these things. It's a moving target. And we're going to have to, we're going to have to see. Now that, that being said, before we change topics, I love this, I love this, um, uh, this little piece of audio of what Danielle Smith said as she's, as she saw Gilbo leaving. Talk about an unwilling and hostile partner to define Stephen Giebeau, and I'm quite happy, glad to see him go and not have the influence in caucus that he clearly had under the previous administration. Yeah, so don't let the door hit you on your way out. No love loss there.

No love loss there at all. Hey, one of the things that we want to talk about, you and I were talking about this morning, is with all of the, these trips that our prime minister has been taking to europe with talk of deepening trade ties with europe with uh even uh canada getting the rights to cbc gave the rights to eurovision that competition um uh there's an argument to be made that Canada is deepening its ties with Europe. And I wonder what you think about the possibility that Mark Carney's end goal,

and it's not a good or bad thing, is for Canada to join the EU. You know, you brought that up this morning. We were talking about the story and you said, what do you think about this? I hadn't thought about it. And as soon as you said it, I was like, that is, that's a real possibility. Now, now, I want to be, I want to be clear with people that currently, the way it stands, Canada could not join the EU because the admission process requires you to be a European state. But, I mean, that's a piece of legislation that can be changed. That's, that's, yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, and I, and I likened it to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

NATO was created after World War II to buttress against expansionist Soviet Union, the expansionist Soviet Union. The Soviet Union went the way the Dodo Bird and you could have argued back then that NATO had then done what it was supposed to do and yet NATO remains today. They found a way to pivot NATO into a relevant position for the 21st century.

You could argue that the EU could want to expand into North America. There's nothing that says they can't accept the rules that they themselves created. You couldn't. And maybe look about, we listed off some of the countries that are involved in NATO now.

Yeah, but before we, we do. Let's just give a couple of examples as to, you know, what Canada has been doing. Canada has negotiated entry into EU's new 150 billion euro safe defense procurement program, becoming the first non-EU country allowed to participate. The entrance fee is still under negotiate. You've got to pay to join. And it's expected to be in the millions, not billions. And this safe membership gives Canada access to joint weapons purchases and procurement opportunities. And look, I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing. It could be a very good idea. idea to cozy up, get closer to our allies in Europe with Donald Trump and we'll look

and go it alone on pretty much everything and looking at any country that isn't America through a very cynical lens. There's nothing wrong with looking at that. I'm just wondering whether the end goal could be something of a deeper integration into Europe than anyone could have previously anticipated. Well, if you look at the people in NATO, the countries in NATO, Croatia, Czechia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Sweden, Sweden, I mean, it's, it basically you're making the point right there. Yeah, yeah. And in terms of like, and then the fact that Canada is the first non-EU country allowed to participate in this procurement program is huge.

And that it could be a trial. It could be a trial balloon. That says that, exactly. It could be a trial balloon. All right. And, you know, Canada does have to pay for it, but they won't say how much. All right. Well, what the EU says it's going to do to protect people against social media scams?

That's coming up next. right here on The Ben Mulroney Show. As always, we welcome you on all platforms, on the radio, on streaming apps, as a podcast, on YouTube, on social media. We appreciate that you are everywhere, and we try to be everywhere as well. So welcome. And let's welcome our next guest, tech journalist Carmi Levy. Always happy to have you on the show, Carmi, because there's, well, tech affects our lives every single day, doesn't it? It absolutely does.

I mean, it defines mine, and I certainly know I'm not alone. So just great, great to be back with you, Ben. Well, all right. Let's talk about the European Union always seems to be pushing the ball down the field as it relates to the regulation of social media. And today is no different. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, you know, they're taking aim at social media companies and banks. And, you know, we hear the story all the time. People get victimized. They click on a link on Facebook and next thing they know they're being taken for huge amounts of money. And then they call their bank and the bank shrugs their shoulders and they try to reach out to the social media company and they shrug their shoulders to, sorry, there's nothing we can do. Well, the EU wants to change that. They've enacted a new law that holds social media companies. companies and banks liable for financial fraud. So basically, if you get defrauded under this law in the entire European Union block, you can actually go after them. They will be forced to pay you if it turns out that they were liable for that loss.

It's a massive, massive change, obviously not in place here in Canada yet, but there's an interesting thing with the way EU laws work. They always tend to lead the world with progressive, tech-centric laws like this. And then countries like Canada and the U.S. and others kind of look to the EU to set that tone. Eventually they might very well follow suit. So definitely something to watch. And anyone who's been victimized. And then, of course, victimized again because these companies said, no, not us.

Well, things might be changing thanks to the EU. But, Karmie, correct me if I'm wrong. Our Digital Services Act, which went the way of the dodo bird because Donald Trump didn't like it, was modeled at least in some aspects on the European Union's DSA and is it as simple as sort of the size of the of the European Union is so big that Donald Trump has less sway over them than you know a little old Canada over here because you know we talk about the Europeans as being bold and pushing the ball down the field but in Canada we got accused and tarred and feathered by Donald Trump for creating an onerous playing field for American companies.

Yeah, it certainly all came down to size. I think Donald Trump felt that he could push Canada around far more easily than he could the 27 country European Union block. They simply have that power. Canada certainly does not. And our digital services act really only was payments. It focused. It really didn't focus on holding big tech platforms accountable.

What is interesting about this is that, It really does sort of picket Europe against the U.S. Europe is now saying these big American companies need to behave better, and they're doing so at a time when Donald Trump has been lashing out, essentially saying you're not going to tell us what to do. So it'll be interesting to see what kind of response we see from the U.S. But because of the EU's power, I don't see all that much pushback at this point in time. I think he's waiting for Canada to do something.

I think he'll target us long before he looks across the pond. All right. Let's move on. And not all social media platforms are created equal. I mean, we talk about social media, it generally is this one thing, but lots of different social media platforms doing different things in different people's lives. And new numbers out of the Pew Research Center suggest that social media users are fleeing X and flocking to TikTok and Reddit. Yeah, this is interesting. I mean, you know, Elon Musk, of course, bought X three years ago, and when he did, company was no longer required to share information about its operations every three months with its earnings reports. Right, because it's a private company. Exactly. You sort of have to trust that Elon Musk is being truthful. And based on this data from Pew Research, which is a very respected Internet research outfit, when they release data, we pay attention. and it's showing that X is off significantly over the last number of years

and that the numbers that Elon Musk is quoting, certainly not there. They're showing that the top platforms remain YouTube, 84% of respondents are using it. Facebook, 71%, so not dying as much as people thought it was, and Instagram at about 50%. And X certainly is drawing up the rear. So Elon Musk, you know, you're a little underwater, on X here, and it shows that you've got a smaller user base than you're claiming.

All right, let's, meanwhile, you and I've talked before about, you know, how the promised future of flying cars and drones and self-driving cars, I've always been of the opinion. It's not going to come as quickly as people expect, because getting

over the hump of allowing these autonomous vehicles and the idea of cars in the air, which are planes or helicopters as far as I'm concerned, it's just, it's too much for sort of the nervous Nellies in all of us to just jump into whole hog. And Amazon is sort of proving that out in real time. They're facing an FAA probe because when their delivery drones snapped an internet cable in Texas.

And if this stuff, even if this stuff happens once a quarter, it's going to slow everything down, isn't it? It absolutely will. I mean, the complexity of getting approvals to have drones fly through your account. Imagine walking your dog and this thing zings over your head. it's almost beyond belief. And so there have been a number of different trials going on in the U.S. Amazon leads the way Walmart is doing them as well. There are a number of pizza delivery companies are also trying to use drones in pilot programs.

And this was in Waco, Texas. The drone had already delivered a package. They're generally under about five pounds. And it was taking off. And on its way out of the neighborhood, it caught on an internet cable line. And so one of the propellers, it was a hex, so it had eight propellers on it. One of them caught the line. It managed to make an emergency landing, but of course now the FAA is saying we've got to investigate

because if there's a problem, it's supposed to have software on it that is able to automatically detect and fly away from obstacles. Clearly that didn't work here. And thankfully, no one was injured. There was no property damage. But, you know, it could have been tragic. It could have been problematic, and it's certainly something that authorities are going to want to understand before pilots like this continue in Waco, Texas, and other areas. So they've stopped flying in Waco.

Yeah. There was another incident in Arizona. Similarly, there was two drones crashed in Arizona. They're investigating those as well. And I think it shows that we're probably not going to be getting drone deliveries across the board anytime soon. You know, if something shows up at your door, it's still going to show up in that big white van. for the next little while. I mean, look, I think there's real value in, say, medical supplies that need to get somewhere

really fast or if the police need a drone to get them something in an emergency. I get that. But are you telling me that we're going to prioritize pizza delivery through the air over people's safety? I just don't see that happening anytime soon. I want to spend a couple of minutes with you before we say goodbye on what I'm going to be talking about in my next segment, which are the benefits of a one-way. week social media break. There is a new study that suggests that those who went from about two hours a day down to 30 minutes a day saw incredible improvements, including like drops in anxiety,

depression, insomnia. I mean, these are, these are marked differences. And when you look at it like that, what do you think? I think that, you know, the canary and the coal mine is singing. I think we're starting to see hard data. And this is from Harvard Medical School. This is, you know, really high-quality research, we should be paying attention that there is a correlation when people go from high uses of social media to low uses, there's a benefit. And it's research that begs additional research. And quite frankly, it echoes reports from the very companies themselves, Facebook or meta, in 2019 had something on Project Mercury that reached the same conclusion, yet they buried that study.

And so we're seeing the truth here. And we should be following the data. and recognizing that we need better best practices. And quite frankly, we need better regulations on these companies to ensure that they're not using technologies to keep us sucked into those platforms more than we already are. Less is better. When social media tells you who they are, listen. And we want to hear from you after the break at 416870-6400 or 1-3-8-225 talk. Can you do a social media blitz getting rid of it in your schedule?

How long could you go without touching your phone? Do you want to have a spouse or kid to quit as well? Give us a call. Karmie Levy, thank you so much. Appreciate it, Ben. Thanks. Yeah, let me give you those numbers one more time. It's 416-8-60-6400 or 1-3-8-2-25 talk.

We want to keep this conversation going. The numbers are stark when people let go of their social media. So many of those negative aspects of mental health dwindle almost immediately. So give us a call. Let's have that conversation next. on The Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Malarney show. Carmi Levy and I were touched on this in the previous segment,

but I want to delve into it a little more. There is a study that examined the effects of reducing social media use on young adults, 18 to 24. And so the average use of social media dropped from about two hours a day to about 30, under about 30 minutes a day. And the participants reported improvements including a drops in anxiety by 16% a drop in depression by nearly 25%

and a drop in insomnia by nearly 15%. And look, I've had personal experience with this. Back in my previous life when I was hosting a television morning show, I was waking up at about the same time as Donald Trump was rage tweeting at the end of the night. and I would wake up and I would turn on my phone and the first thing I would see were these all caps tweets by Donald Trump and I could feel my anxiety spike the second I woke up

like imagine that you wake up and the first thing you see causes you anxiety so I had to block any mention of Donald Trump on my Twitter and eventually he got kicked off of Twitter so that wasn't a real problem but I noticed a market improvement in my personal health and my mental health. And so I can appreciate this. And so the question is to you at 416-870-6400 or 1-3-8-2-25 talk,

would you be able to do something like this? How long could you go without touching your phone? Do you have a spouse or a kid that cannot quit? Or do you think that this is garbage? Do you think that you can regulate your own mental health and having a healthy relationship? with social media. I'd love to hear from you. Let's start with Dawn. Don, welcome this show. Thanks so much for calling.

Oh, hi. How are you? I'm well, thank you. Okay, well, that's good because you don't, you're not following your, uh, your feeds too much, eh? Well, I'm the opposite. I was just explaining to your, uh, your associate there, uh, I've got my notifications. When I'm bored, I turn my notifications on on that. Yeah. And, uh, I'm very dialed in. Yeah. And my, uh, my phone is my, and I feel like I've got my finger on the pulse of the entire world. And I think 10 years ago, I'd agree with what you said about, you know, less is more.

But now I think more is less because more is more important because there's so much going on. But Don, can I ask you a question? May I ask how old you are? I'm 67. Okay. So you and I are closer in, like we're one cohort versus this group that was sort of like raised on social media right like you and i can turn it off we we know a world without it i mean i'll give you an example don i bet you're the same as me when you're having a wonderful moment with people when you're at an event uh that is uh spectacular i bet you're like me i bet you don't think i got to record this i bet you think like me i want to enjoy this i'm going to look i'm going to

watch it and yet other people are taking pictures and they're looking at through their screen i bet you and i are paying attention to it just with our eyes am i wrong to assume that perhaps that wasn't really where i was going no no but my my point is you and i live in a world where we can self-regulate because we lived in a world without it but there's an entire generation that was raised with a screen in their face and they and they they they don't know life without it and it's those people that i think this study is designed for well i think it's important for people but know how to do things and the younger generation

aren't failing at that because I think they can go on YouTube and figure it all out in 10 seconds. But listen, I get it. Man, I can tell you, I get it. I know how important it is to stay on top of stuff. And I do, I feel it with you, man.

There are certain days where news is happening at such a high velocity and you are staying on top of it in real time on Twitter. I get it. But I just feel, I worry for a generation that doesn't know that there is a life without social media.

Well, aren't you worried about the, I say, the Fiat system collapsing. It's in the process of complete collapse right now. I follow, you know, the fact that the treasuries are being bought up by a group in the Cayman Islands and nobody even knows who it is, the U.S. treasuries. Nobody even knows who's buying their treasuries. My friend, we will keep an eye on that. Thank you so much for the call. Dawn, you take care and have a great Tuesday.

Let's welcome Ian to the conversation. Ian, what do you think? Yeah, I don't quite understand this phenomenon. Which one? I saw a word earlier this week called Rage Bake. Oh, it's the word of the year for, I can't remember, Oxford, I think, whatever dictionary it is, yeah. Yeah, and I don't quite understand it.

If I see something that I disagree with or kind of angers me, I just move on to something else that interests me more. Your screeners was saying there, he gave up his Twitter a long time ago. When I discuss things online now, I do it through WhatsApp. It's a closed group of friends who understand nuance, who understand sarcasm. and it does not exist online. Everything is taking literally. There is no nuance.

Oh, yeah. And I think it just is a sign of a weak person. If you get roped into this. Well, someone said, someone gave the example. Like if you wrote something as innocuous as I love oranges on Twitter, you'd have a million people coming at you saying, oh, so you hate apples?

You hate apples. Is that what you're saying? because I, you know, I'm an apple farmer. You hate apple farmers? Is that what you're saying? And it would go on and on and on. And I think for some people, like even myself, and who I think I'm pretty skilled at social media, it's a constant learn. Like, you learn as you go.

I now try to, I use the Ron Popil method of tweeting. I said it and forget it. Like I tweet and I walk away. And I don't even check. And I keep my notifications off, Ian. But I think, look, I think we're learning that the algae. are highly addicted. They're designed to activate certain parts of the brain that make you want to stay on it longer

than you ever would. And like I said, for a certain kid, for a certain person who got caught up in social media while their brain was still developing, I think they have a different relationship with it than you and I might. I think what people have to get over is, it doesn't matter what a stranger thinks of you that you will ever meet in your life. Yep, yeah, I agree. It's inconsequential.

Yeah, no, but it's not just that. I mean, we're talking about Twitter, but it's also, it's also the algorithm on, on, you know, photo sharing apps and video sharing apps, like Instagram and TikTok, right? They are designed to hook you, and they're designed to make you feel a certain way. They're designed to make you a covet,

that which you don't have, somebody's life or the appearance of their life, all the trappings of success that you don't have that you want that somebody else online has and it can make you feel bad about yourself. Yeah, you know, I saw this thing on TV yesterday. They were interviewing a cosmetic surgeon. And he interviews young women who have too much Botox done. Yeah.

And they will freely admit it doesn't look good in person, but it really looks nice on social media. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had Dan, the esthetician on the show yesterday, talking about exactly that. Oh, it was you. Yes, it was me. It was me, yeah. He said, because it looks good in two dimensions. That blows my mind.

It's like, you don't care about your personal interactions. Your online interactions mean more. But, yeah, but again, like, you know, it is a serious problem. And I think, you know, we could sit here and we could just tell these kids to grow up and recognize that that's not the world, but the world they grew up in. The one that informed who they are is one that included these apps.

And for us to say that denies the very real reality that they grew up in. You know, you see what I'm saying? I love complaining about the younger generations as much as anybody. But the reality is, they grew up in a world that was not ours.

And it's not real. It is not, but it's not real to them. Like it's a real part of their life. It's a real part of the life. And unfortunately, my friend, we've got to leave it there. But thank you very much for a great conversation. And I wish you the very best today. And yeah, like you've heard me before. I'm the old guy screaming at the younger generation. Not in this case. In this case, the pervasiveness, the addictive nature of social media, the fact that they grew up with this in their face, the fact that they had the isolation

of COVID, the fact that their entire education, a lot of their education, their formative years happened online. I'm not going to fault them. I'm not going to fault them. I want to stamp myself one of the best players to ever play this game. Wednesdays on Global. That's how you do it. This is their moment. The lying.

The backstabbing. I'm excited to do it. Canada's number one reality show. This is a highly venomous. snake. I'm worried about his life at this point. We both aren't afraid to be killers. I'm the puppet master. She was Karen. This is Survivor. We're going to go to War Survivor. All new Wednesdays on Global. Stream on Stack TV.