The Ben Mulroney Show - Do we need a referendum every time our government wants to raise taxes?

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Do we need a referendum every time our government wants to raise taxes? If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Exclusively on FanDuel Casino. Where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and we are days away from what is looking like the biggest mobilization of Canadians going to the polls in the history of this country for the next federal election. And now we have a better idea of what both major

parties stand for. They've both released their costed platforms. There's a lot to unpack. There are a lot of things to distinguish them from each other. Some are good, some are bad. I like a lot of the conservative platform, but there's one aspect of it that I'm still trying to wrap my head around. I still am trying to figure out why. Trying to figure out why this rose to the level of something that needed to be in the platform itself. Under a Pierre Poliev government,

a referendum, not politicians, would decide if Canada needed to raise taxes. Pierre Poliev would ban any new taxes or tax increases unless the public votes for them in a referendum. Now look, because of my dad and his time in politics, I witnessed a number of referendums, as I'm sure a lot of you remember. They are not easy to organize.

A national referendum especially is a massive undertaking that can cost millions of dollars. It's like an election. You want as many people to come out to make an informed choice as possible. It ain't cheap. It's in the tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. Just ask the question, do you want us to raise taxes?

So I wanna hear from you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. Is this what you want? Is this the accountability that you expect? Are you somebody who wants to have the last and final say over taxes and whether we have to pay them or not in this country? I'm of the opinion that if you get elected, you have a mandate to lead and make some hard decisions. You do not have to come back and check with me.

You're the guy who won. Do what you got to do until it's time to hold you to account. I'm a little more trusting in my leaders that way, but some of you may feel, uh-uh-uh. If you're coming for my money, i want you to check with me first so give us a call 416-870-6400-1888-225 talk do you like the idea of a referendum anytime the government wants to raise taxes phil welcome to the ben mulroney show hello phil how are you good how are you'm well. What do you think of this idea? Well, you know, in principle, I like the idea. It kind of follows the Swiss model where, you know, any time you want to do something that you go and have

a referendum, there's the cost. There's, yeah, there's the cost. To me, like, it's something that we already have a parliamentary system that parliament has the power to decide to do this or not to do this. Yeah. So I would leave it in the hands of parliament. Yeah. And I'd love to know more. Yeah. So I would leave it in the hands of Parliament. Yeah. And I'd love to

know more about it. Like, is it a would it be a is it every single time you want to have a different tax? What if you want to raise a tax or or is it just when you want to create new taxes? A lot of questions that I don't yet have answers for. Steve, what do you think? Is this a good idea? Hey, Ben, thanks for taking my call. It's a brilliant idea and the way to facilitate it, you know, in my opinion would just be to do it on your tax return so that they get the feedback of everyone who's actually paying taxes, what their wishes is as far as, you know, what the tax should be, where it goes, how it's implemented, all sorts of questions. But that would only work if they wanted to the idea of the tax lined up with when you had to

file your tax return. Well, if you assume their mandate is four years, then you have some time to figure it out and and to organize it any other way is probably going to take longer than a single tax year, whereas you could just add five questions at the end of your tax return and be done. I mean, possibly. I don't know that that gives them the flexibility to do what they need to do when they need to do it. But it's conceptually, as you're saying, it's something to think about. Thank you so much for the call. Tony, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Hey, Ben. Great show.

Thank you. I totally agree. I say we do the technology via app. Not the arrive app, scam, that type of stuff, but we have accountability. We do it through an app. Everyone votes off their phone or off their computer. Saves a ton of money and total agreement. Listen, you're kind of opening my mind to the possibility of, yeah, a digital referendum, an online referendum, a mobile referendum. All of a sudden, now we're talking. Now that's something.

But who's going to build it? It has to exist somewhere in the world. There has to be that software somewhere in the world. That's a really good idea. I think that's a great idea. If there was a way to implement an online or a mobile app to keep the cost down, be able to do it from wherever you are so it's secure, reliable, immediate, that's something worth exploring.

I really like that. Mark, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. I just the last caller I think took my thunder, I quite agree. But I'll take it maybe a step further and draw a parallel to the everybody's CRA account. For good reason, that is like Fort Knox trying to log log into that. And I think we might have some short term pain to implement this for sure for the first time. But down the road, I think it's long term gain. And I think any politician, the role, the number one role should be gathering the thoughts and opinions of the masses that's and if you align with the thoughts and opinions

of the masses, you get in. And after that, we should we should do everything we can to align with that. Yeah. So yeah, I quite agree that it would be difficult upfront. Well, unless of course, some some somebody's somewhere in the world is doing this already, a country is already doing this. And if they are, we should just lift that software and adapt it to Canada. Well, like I say, we're already doing it with our CRA accounts. Yeah, yeah. You Yeah, it's a great way we could log in there and issue our or submit our vote on a referendum and be great. Mark, thank you very much for your call.

Yeah. Let's welcome Al to the show. Al, is this a good idea? Absolutely. I'm all in on it. We've wasted so much money on stupid things. I don't mind a referendum and you know now and now and then because our elected leaders should be our voice and they haven't bit doesn't matter how much we jump up and down and scream, they don't listen to us.

And I'll take it one step further. I want an election every year to hold these people accountable. No, we can't have an election every year. Are you kidding? You're kidding, right? Come on. Why not? Because it would be exhausting and nothing will get done. They will be accountable if they want to stay in power. Okay? Yeah, I just don't see that working, Al. I mean, listen, I get it.

I get that you want to keep them accountable. That's why they have four-year terms. Thank you so much for the call. Listen, if I can get behind a referendum if it's of the digital variety, but the idea of mounting a massive mobilization of the Canadian people every time you want to raise taxes, that doesn't work for me. But maybe it works for Doug. Welcome to the show, Doug. Hi, thanks. Thanks for taking my call. Yeah.

My idea would be that you should be able to have a totally open vote in parliament so that the people are speaking representing the area that they were voted in. So you don't have to vote by party lines, but that's a waste of time. Just have it so that it's a totally open vote. Free votes. No whipped vote ever ever you're saying? No, no, no, and no repercussions if you don't vote the party line, that sort of thing. That way they can represent the people that actually elected them in. Oh, you're trying to reinvent the party politics in Canada. That's a bold, bold ambition, but I do appreciate it. Thank you so much for the idea. Dina, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hello. Hello. I am I am more of your thinking. I think we elected them into office to do their job. They got to do what's best for Canada as a whole. And our wants over our needs are two

totally different things. I can't see anybody voting to ever increase taxes as a citizen. But the government should have an idea of what is needed to be done and let the MPs, the parliament vote on it. That's what they're there for. That's all we have. How many parliament members? 200 and whatever it is. Oh, it's over 300 now. Let's figure it out. Huh? It's as well, I think it's 350 or something like that now.

350. Well, they're there for a reason. They're there to represent everybody in Canada and give their professional opinions on what needs to be done or wants over our needs or two totally different things. Dina, thank you very much. And you're actually speaking my language because I subscribe to my dad's belief

that political capital is meant to be spent and you've got to do the hard things sometimes. You've got to do things that the people won't necessarily want. I don't know that there's anybody today who disagrees with the value and the importance of the GST, but I guarantee you back in the day when my dad was fighting for it you couldn't find anybody who wasn't in his caucus and cabinet who was for that thing. So had we had this back then, we wouldn't have had the GST,

which means we would not have slayed the deficit. Well, it came back, but we would not have slayed the deficit. We wouldn't have had a tool in our toolbox that we absolutely needed because it wasn't popular. And because you're right, nobody is going to vote in favor of raising their own taxes. Unless I guess, I guess it's about making a compelling case. Hey, Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, so I thought of an idea, like we already have the ethics commissioner. Why don't we just have, you know,

when an MP takes the oath of office, they have to bring a paper sign what they're gonna do, what they're not gonna do, what they got elected on. And then when they violate that, so let's say they raise a tax or make a new tax, they have to face the ethics commissioner. It's already a thing that exists. That's just going to be one more duty for them to do. Well, raising taxes isn't an ethical breach. It's just, I mean, it's sometimes it's a fact that we

need we need more revenue, or we're trying to we're trying to overhaul the tax system. So I don't know that it has to go to the Ethics Commission, but yeah, listen, accountability is always good and the more ideas and more levers we have for accountability, I make a case for it. Hey, this conversation is going to continue after the break, so don't go anywhere. If you're on the line, stay on the line. That's next on the Ben Mulroney Show. Now our change will honour the Supreme Court of Canada, where justice and truth have guided decisions since 1875. As the country's highest court, it plays an essential role in protecting the rights and

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Big Deal event. Visit your Toronto area Ford store or Ford.ca today. Welcome back to the Wednesday edition of the Ben Mulroney show and we are taking your calls at 416-870-6400 or 1-triple-8-225 talk under a Pierre Poliev conservative government. A referendum and not politicians would decide if Canada needed to raise taxes. Poliev would ban any new taxes or tax increases unless the public votes for them. I want to take your the temperature of the people are the listeners of the Ben Mulroney show. What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? We need more information. Let us know. Let's start with Tony.

Tony, welcome to the show. Good morning. Good morning. It is a terrible idea. Why you were just we were just speaking earlier about for example the Toronto cycling association it's a special interest group that I mean no offense against interest groups but they have a very specific agenda you are opening the door for specific agendas or communities with specific agendas to push their point of view through the I don't think it's a good idea. Well, you know, and that's why I'm sort of on the fence, because I can see both sides, Tony. Like, if Pierre Poliev and his government have access to the government books,

and they know the health of the country, and they know what our revenue is, and they know what our spending is, they know how much we have and how much we need they are the ones with the most information the best position to decide whether or not we need a tax so that they can fulfill their vision and their agenda and when you start bringing the people in every every time you want to increase taxes or lower taxes you're gonna screw with their ability fulfill their policy in their platform every single problem okay not everything was i'm joe canada

yeah i i believe i am i have a business to run i have a family i have parents and it's a very bad excuse i don't think I have any time to sit down or do whatever I have to do and study what's involved in following all the documentation about making these kind of decisions. It's going to be a heavy lift for sure. Hey, I want to thank you so much. I got a lot of calls to get to, Tony. Thank you so much. Stan, welcome to the show. Is a referendum

on taxes a good idea? Um, I'm not sure. I mean, you can make a law this year. And when the government changes, which it always does, they take out the law. And that's a problem. The problem we were discussing before was, you know, how do you do it? And someone suggested online, I'm putting together an online election right now. And the challenges are incredible. What are the challenges? How do you verify people? How do you know that some that you Ben Mulrooney are the person voting? Do we take your credit card in order to do it? The credit card has to be Canadian. Are you in

Canada when you're voting? You know, how do we know that that you're not using a prepaid card and getting 50,000 people to vote on this election coming out of China? All good questions, but let me just say there's already technology for fingerprints and face recognition on phones. Like, you could verify someone's ID pretty quickly, don't you think? But you have to have it first. Where are you going to get that database from? And how are you going to make putting that data public? Look I'm not I'm not an IT guy I have no idea but I have to assume that somewhere in the world there is a country that has already embarked on digital voting. I'm sure there is software that solves for this very problem

and if it works somewhere else it shouldn't be too hard to adapt it to here. We do not need to build our own arrive can version of this. There's somebody somewhere who's already solved this problem. Let's go buy that software, tweak it for Canada, and if this is something that a pulley of government wants to do, do that. That's at least my opinion. Tom, welcome to the show. Hey Ben, how's it going? Very well, thank you. So I think it's a good idea because it forces governments not to go welcome to the show. Hey, Ben, how's it going? Very well. Thank you. So I think it's a good idea because it forces governments not to go beyond the backs of the taxpayer all the time to get creative, to generate more money via different ways.

You can't just keep coming. We're a heavily taxed country. So initially you said, you know, there's certain policies that you have to do that are not really popular with the public. But being the fact that we are so heavily taxed, you know, it just, it makes my screen, my skin crawl thinking about increasing taxes. So I think poly ev is trying to, you know, sway the, the, the sway of the people. But I think it's a good idea because it forces the government to figure out different ways without going to the taxpayer.

One of the ways they can do it is either loosen regulation when they have to build something or exploit something. So there's different ways for them to get more money. And I hate hearing tools in our toolbox because all that is is another tax. All that is is taking food out of my kid's mouth, you know, dreams, aspirations wiped out to give to someone someone's ideological sense of what to do. Well, listen, not every tax is a bad tax. And we do have to pay for certain things. I think a lot

of Canadians, whether you're left or right, feel that there we need a social safety net to take care of those who have fallen on hard times, or who need need help from time to time. So I'm very happy to pay into a system that takes care of the people who need it. And that costs money. We have to have taxes for that. We have a military. We've got to pay for that. We've got health care. We've got to pay for that education. Got to pay for that. And on and on and on. We got all of that stuff.

The highways have to get paved. All of that stuff. The police have to get paved, all of that stuff, the police, the RCMP, all of that needs to get paid for. And without taxes, we can't pay for it. And I just I just think conservative government might be cutting itself off at the knees in order to empower the people. I think it's just a big, big problem that they may have. Rob, welcome to the people. I think it's just a big, big problem that they may have. Rob, welcome to the show. Hey, bud. I love the idea. You've had, you know, two callers that came up with problems. So no, I love the idea too. I just don't know if in practice it leads to the healthiest ecosystem. Well, why wouldn't it, Ben? I mean, like you, I'm sure much.

Because nobody is going to vote to raise their taxes. And every now and then you do have to raise taxes. Not entirely, bud. I mean, like some people is going to vote to raise their taxes and every now and then you do have to raise taxes. Not entirely, but I mean like some people are going to vote for it if they're ideologically tied to that tax. I mean the liberals are doing it every year. They just keep saying we'll spend more money. But I mean like can you go to your boss now and tell him hey you're paying me more tomorrow? That's effectively what the government does.

God I wish I could. Me too. They don't produce anything other than bloviating hot air generators. Rob, I only have time for one more call. So thank you so much for your call. Tatiana, welcome to the show. You've got 35 seconds.

Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. You bring to the surface subjects that are very dear to my heart. Thank you. And I can barely ever get through because- Well, tell me, we're running out of time. So very quickly, do you like this idea or not? I am a little bit on the fence,

but what my proposal would be, if anybody pays attention, I know we pay taxes, but I would like to see a lift up where my tax dollars are going and I would like to choose. I agree. Tatiana, thank you so much and thanks to everybody who called in. Breaking news coming in from bet three, six, five, where every nail biting overtime win break win, breakaway, pick six, three-point shot, underdog win, buzzer beater, shootout, lock off, and absolutely every play in between is amazing. From football to basketball and hockey to baseball,

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joining us. If you know even just one thing about me, you know that I have been looking forward to the bike lanes being ripped off of Yonge Street as well as university for forever. And when I heard that the Ford government was going to come in off of Yonge Street as well as university for forever. And when I heard that the Ford government was gonna come in and do just that, I actually offered up to help do it myself. I would do it in my spare time. I would volunteer to be boots on the ground to do that.

But just as well, because Toronto is Toronto, there's pushback all the time. And the cyclists in this town are mobilized and organized and they push back in court. And it turns out the court granted an injunction to stop Ontario from removing those three major bike lanes. The Cycle Toronto's lawyers argued the bill infringes on the charter rights of Toronto cyclists by exposing them to a heightened risk of serious injury or death. So the judge said look I'm gonna give you an injunction so we can figure this out and what I read in this is that the Cycle Toronto lawyers came prepared and I don't know that the Ontario

government did so if this if they've got to go back the Ontario government if they really care about this they're gonna have to come back correct but I want to talk to you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225 talk how is this a charter issue have we completely lost the plot or does Cycle Toronto have a point is is this going to put cyclists at too much of a risk too much danger and we got to leave the bike lanes where they are. Give me a call. 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225. Talk. I was very disappointed when I read this article. Very disappointed that the province did not show up with the information that they needed. Apparently Cycle Toronto showed up with data suggesting that there's no traffic is caused by bike lanes and if you remove them you would not get rid of congestion. Apparently they had data to back that up and apparently the Ontario government only came with what they

called anecdotal information. Look, all I have is anecdotal information and I can tell you from my anecdotal information traffic has never been worse than it is right now on streets that I drive all the time, like University, like Yonge Street. And the only thing that's changed over the past few years has been the bike lane. So I don't think I need much more data than that. But look, we're gonna have to, I guess we're gonna have to wait until the next court appearance. Rick, welcome to the show. Ricky there. Good morning. How are you? Well, thank you. How are you? Good. Thank you. I'm sort of pissed off here because I'm thinking of all the people that have lost their lives because of the delayed emergency response times that fire

trucks can't take these thoroughfares anymore. They're taking side roads for God's sakes. In my mind, this is more than a charter issue for the people that have died because of the emergency response time. This is a criminal issue that should be taken up against City Hall. Nevermind the bicyclists that are passing away.

I know that's not good. It shouldn't happen, but we can't look after everybody. Yeah, no, you're right. And the fact that there is nowhere for cars to move out of the way during rush hour for those emergency vehicles to get through that is you're right, that is we have to find a way around that whether they keep the bike lanes or not. I think it's really criminal. I think there should be an investigation independent by somebody I don't know who maybe Mr. Ford will take it upon himself because, um, it's, it's sad. It's actually sad.

Well, thank you very much for your call, sir. I appreciate it. And let's say hi to Jim. Jim, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hey Ben, how are you doing? I'm well, thank you. Ben, I drove that city as a courier for, since I was 17 years old until I was about 40 something. as a courier for since I was 17 years old until I was about 40 something and I can't think of anything dumber than bike lanes on main thoroughfares when you're removing a lane of traffic anybody thinking that it won't cause gridlock and it just doesn't make any

sense to anybody with any common sense and the other thing is why didn't they come in prepared that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I know I was disappointed by that. But I don't care what the data says. If I have two chairs, and I have two people at my house, and they both have a place to sit, if all of a sudden I remove one of the chairs, they're both gonna have a problem

fitting onto that one chair. It's spatial reasoning 101. Exactly. Thank you for your call, I appreciate it. Yeah, this is, look want I want bike lanes and I want cyclists to feel safe. But come on, Yonge Street is not the place for them. And I think everybody knows that. It's not a charter issue. It's a space issue. Let's welcome Steve to the show. Hey, Ben, love the show. Thank you for taking my call. You know, ultimately, this is not an argument about bike lanes,

if we should have them or not. We should have them. Yeah. But we should have them on non-main roads. Yeah. It's as simple as that. And this has been brought up a million times. So it's like a couple fighting just for the sake of fighting. There's a solution. We have a solution. It's side roads. It's not Bloor Street. It's not Yonge Street. This city is a disaster. This fighting with with respect to the charter. Oh my God, do we have to make the charter

absolutely black and white so that every single fringe party isn't going to argue about some gray aspect of it? This is ridiculous. Yeah, and the fact, thank you for the call, the fact that emergency vehicles have to take our have to take side roads and the bicycles are on arterial roads. That is a flipping of the plot. If I've ever seen one. That's crazy to me. Hey, Kevin, welcome to the show. Hey, good morning. Yeah, I don't know. Neither this this judge is either completely blind, or I suspect he might be one of these liberal appointed judges that basically leans left all the time because this is absolutely ridiculous with the amount of nonsense. How can they

sit there and say by taking out a whole lane and putting all these crazy bollards and barriers up, it's not affecting traffic and it's also affecting commerce as well. They've already proven that. Well, I think the disappointing thing is that the cycle, Toronto people showed up prepared and I don't know that the Ontario government necessarily did based on what I read. And if that's the case, then this is the result that you're supposed to get, right? Well, hopefully, you know, I mean, maybe there are no big rush to do it. I

think eventually it's going to happen. I think they're just going to keep fighting and kicking and clawing. And then Ford's just going to come in and he's going to, they're going to lay the hammer down. Say, no, this is the way it's going to be. I was hoping it was going to be, it was going to be done by summertime. That's what I wanted. I'm very disappointed. I was hoping so too. I got to drive around in this mess all day. Yeah, well drive around, you mean park in this mess. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for taking my call. Okay, take care. Have a great one. Yeah, look, I don't, I, I respect the fact that the Cycle Toronto people are defending the rights and the safety of cyclists, but we can have two things

be true at the same time. We can want a robust cycling network across the city that doesn't infringe on the rights of drivers to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Frank, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Good morning, Ben. Good morning. I understand the argument, like liberating security, the person, they're making, taking, or have taken the position to city that having bike lanes would protect cyclists from getting injured and putting them at greater risk. But I look at it the other way.

When a bicycle's on a road, there's risks to that cyclist of getting injured by cars. And there's also a great risk that cyclists will injure pedestrians at intersections. So I think the opposite argument would apply. They shouldn't be on the road and they can't rely on charter rights. What do you think of if there is a bike lane to raise it to the height of the sidewalk so that the cyclist isn't going toe to toe with a car, but rather toe to toe with a pedestrian

and it forces it forces the cyclist to be more careful? Absolutely. It mitigates the risk. and it forces the cyclist to be more careful. Absolutely, it mitigates the risk. But the question is whether or not it's still a charter right on their part to argue that those bike lanes should stay on the road, especially certain roads that you identified where it's really busy, like a young street.

Yeah, I agree. And frankly, I don't think a week goes by that we don't talk about the charter. I don't think a day goes by we don't talk about the charter in this country. Hey, Frank, thank you so much. Mike, welcome to the show. Good morning, Ben.

Not a big fan. But anyways, three callers ago, absolute genius. These people should be taking the back roads. And the way to do that, I personally can't do it. Somebody should create an app for the bikers that they can put on their bike. For all the areas that these bikers need to get to.

They follow the app. If they go on the main roads, they should be fined. And that will bring more money to the coffers of the City of Toronto because your mayor has a spending problem. So an app should be created. They created an app for for everything create an app for the bikers that they can find the best routes possible Staying off the main roads. I don't know why thank you very much my friend. I hope I win you over at some point

I don't know why cyclists wouldn't want to drive on streets that are parallel to Yonge Street parallel to University parallel to Bloor they are more scenic, they are quieter, they are safer. You're going to get to wherever you're going in about the same amount of time and you don't have to worry for your personal safety. I don't understand why this is the hill to die on. It makes no sense to me. Why do you have to be on University when you could go south through U of T? It is scenic, it is beautiful, it is safe, it'll get you there almost as quickly.

I don't understand it. Why are we so obsessed with this? and your Sundays? Well, Home Network is giving you the chance to love your home with $15,000. There can only be one winner. Tune in to Renovation Resort every Sunday and look for the code word during the show. Then enter at homenetwork.ca watch and win for your chance to win big. Amazing! The small details are the difference between winning and losing. Watch and win with Renovation Resort on Home Network.