The Ben Mulroney Show - Drug Traffickers out on Bail immediately. What is wrong with this country?

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Drug Traffickers out on Bail immediately. What is wrong with this country? If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You are listening to the Ben Mulroney Show, the hump day edition of the Ben Mulroney Show. It's Wednesday, June 11th. Before I do anything, I got to start off wishing a happy birthday to the single greatest, most amazing sister that God has ever placed on this beautiful earth. My sister, Caroline is 25 years young today and I love her very much. We're going to celebrate her birthday today. Caroline, if you're listening, I'm sure someone you know is listening.

So they will tell you that I'm wishing you the happiest birthday. You deserve it, I love you. And I wanted to start the show on an upbeat note, a quirky note, because I heard a story on social media today and it bears repeating. Sometimes people have a horseshoe lodged somewhere

deep in their body. And this person is one of those people. So apparently there was a house flipper in Chicago that a couple of years ago purchased a house in the suburbs of Chicago for about $66,000 US. And if you take a look at it, it's a nondescript one floor home, 66 grand, goes a lot farther in Chicago than it clearly does here.

And they invested in an upgrade to flip the house. And if you look at the renderings and what what they did to the house, it's inoffensive to say that. I mean, that's the style they were going for. It's generic. It's gray and beige. It's supposed to appeal to everyone and no one and it succeeds. And the goal was for this person to to sell it for $199,000 or 66 to 199. That's a tidy profit. And for months,

there were no takers, no takers at all. And they were probably looking at a price reduction until and they were probably looking at a price reduction until, until they found out that this was the childhood home of the new pope. And because of that is now going to an auction site where they are looking at possibly making as much as if not more than a million bucks. Now that is good luck. And maybe we all need a little good luck today. The new crisis in this city is 911 wait times. We started the week with a first person account of a terrible shoplifting crime

that left a woman bloodied on the street and a good Samaritan did his best along with his friends to get 911 to come and send a first responder. Wait times, they were waiting on hold, 10 minutes go by. Eventually a retired doctor shows up, they have to hail a fireman, and eventually they get the woman to hospital on their own, but keeping in mind

that the hospital was a stone's throw from where this happened. We find out an investigation has been opened. And then another 911 review today when we find out that a 15-year-old died after being shot and despite people attending to this 15 year old, 911 didn't come they eventually said screw it we're gonna do it ourselves through the kid in the car brought them to a place that did not have a trauma center eventually moved to a trauma center and this 15 year old was felled by his wounds so of course another investigation going on and in the interim after that first event

we had a car I took I took calls on it I took and the very first call I believe And of course, another investigation going on. And in the interim, after that first event, I took calls on it. And the very first call, I believe, the very first call, the person said, surely we're living in an era where AI could help with something like this. I mean, this is basic picking up the phone and allocating, AI determining whether this needs to be escalated to a human interaction.

And I thought that's a that's a good idea. Maybe that's happening somewhere, maybe somewhere in the world. Somebody is doing this and Toronto could reach out and Toronto could find out whether this is something we could import here. You know, maybe it's happening in Hong Kong or somewhere in Japan. Oh, no, no. Greg Brady on his show today found out it's happening next door today in Peel region. Let's listen to the Peel police chief on 911 wait times after they

brought in AI. You know, people are one thing more people and resources without a doubt, we've been blessed to get more people in our comm center. But technology has helped us reduce it. You know, 50% 40% of the calls are pocket dials and butt dials, and they require somebody, a human on the other end to call back. The technology has allowed us to use AI to do the callbacks,

which allow humans to do the other calls. So we were, you know, two and a half, three minute average wait time about a year and a half ago. We were down to 28 seconds at the end of 2024. Now it's an average of 12 seconds a wait, which is still not perfect, but you know, combination of people, resources, technology can do it. And I know Toronto police is, they get a big call center, they're doing their best and they'll get there for sure. Just listen to what that guy said. They've gotten wait times for 911 down to 12 seconds and he says, it's not perfect

yet but we're going to get there. Meanwhile next door in Toronto, we've got wait times that are literally causing people to die. I will humbly and respectfully ask the mayor of Toronto, pick up the goddamn phone and call the people in Peel Region and ask them what technology are you using and let's get on that today. And the fact that it hasn't happened yet is, ah, what are you doing? What are you doing with your time, city council and mayor

and city staff? I know what you're doing. You're coming up with highfalutin plans on maybe we should turn the island airport into a park. How about you investigate AI in 911 today? How about you put into practice tomorrow so no one dies when we could be saving their lives? Oh my god, when I heard that this morning, when I heard that the solution to the problem

that we've now talked about twice this week is in market in Peel Region. What the hell are you doing at City Council? I hear that we're spending $400 million to refurbish toilets in public parks. But you can't pick up the phone and find out what software they're using in Peel region that could save lives and save money.

I mean, I don't even know. What have I said? What have I said time and time again? This city thrives despite the people that run it. This city became a world-class city despite the people that run it. This city became a world-class city despite the people that run it. Well, now we're actually getting to the point that the people that run it are actually dragging us

away from the pedestal of being a world-class city. When the people in this city are subjected to double digit property tax hikes, two years in a row, and I have to report twice in one week on shameful 911 call times and reaction times when the solution exists next door. It's making my blood boil. I'm so angry that the mediocrity of leadership and vision

I'm so angry that the mediocrity of leadership and vision and proactivity of city officials is leading to people dying when it is preventable because the solution exists next door. I wish we had recall. I wish we had recall of public officials in this city. Welcome back to the Ben Mo. Runeesha, thank you so much for joining us. We got a lot of good news out of Peel Region. We just talked about how AI has dropped the response times from 9-1-1 down to 12 seconds. So congratulations to them there.

But another really big piece of good news out of Peel Region with the police announcing a massive drug bust after it's a year long project called Operation Pelican. My guess is Pelican because they scooped up $50 million worth of cocaine in nine people arrested largest combined drug seizure in Peel police history being called a seismic blow to organized crime. And so you hear that story, which I heard about yesterday, but then I saw the video and they're very proud of this and they should be very proud of this.

The video that I saw reminded me of sort of the pride that the Americans take when they have one of these drug busts. So they got there in the background. You've got the Peel region police vehicles, right? And then right in front of them are tactical officers with what look like military style assault weapons and granted, and they're holding them in a very like they are at the ready, right? The finger off the trigger, but they are standing there projecting strength. And then you've got the police and the

people associated with it. And right in the foreground, you got all the drugs, right? All the drugs that will never see the light of day. And the infrastructure that they brought down, this transnational effort with trucks coming across the border and being seized at ports of entry. I mean, this was a big, big deal, and they should be proud. Let's listen to the Peel cops talking about how big a deal Operation Pelican is. This represents a seismic blow

to transnational organized crime that is coming right here into Peel. What you have before you is 479 kilograms of cocaine, estimated street value of almost 50 million. And these drugs... Every gram, every kilogram that we stop from coming to our community saves lives. Every firearm, illegal firearm that we seize off the street saves lives. And as the chief said, this should serve as a very, very simple message. If you target our community, if you attempt to take advantage of the vulnerable in our community, we will arrest you and bring you to justice.

All right. I like all of that. But then the follow up question was, what's the bail status of the people arrested? Among these nine, are they still in custody or anybody is out on bail? Of the nine people arrested, three are still awaiting bail hearings and six have had their bail hearings and have been released with conditions. And then all of a sudden it takes a turn from the American police projecting strength, sometimes too much strength, to the Canadians doing what we do best.

So six of the nine are now out on bail. And that was yesterday, right? So it's entirely possible that the other three, they got their bail as well already, and they're all out there. So let's go back for a moment to what the police were saying. Let this be a message that if you want to take advantage of our community, we will find you, we will hunt you down, we will bring you to justice. With my humble, my humble suggestion is we need to tweak that messaging because with the bail granted to these people, the message is not that.

The message is if you try to take advantage of our community, we're going to let you off with a slap on the wrist. We are going to show you that you can continue doing this because it's entirely possible that these guys can skip bail. I would like to hear from you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. What's the point? Honestly, what's the point of projecting this strength? If we then do the weakest thing we can do, which is let these guys off. If it's such a serious thing that you're going to project the strength, you're going to put out the video, you're going to tell people all the hard work that was done.

If the people responsible for it are just let off to go, oh, with conditions, they can stay at home. Do you honestly think all these people are going to stick around? No, of course they're not. Of course they're not. We are showing people that if you do the crime, if you do the crime, there might not be time. So just go do another crime. While they're out on bail, do you think they're going to be upstanding citizens? Do you think they're going to just abide by the rules? They are criminals. So it's until we, until we solve this part of the chain of command of like the from crime all the way to incarceration. What are we doing? So I want to hear from you. Four one six eight seven zero sixty four hundred one triple eight two two five talk.

The cops did their part. The law enforcement part did their part. The law enforcement part did their part. Now it's time that as they pass the baton and they hand the person that the people they arrested over for prosecution, the courts have to do their job and the courts aren't keeping up because what what then happens these guys are out on bail. Do you honestly think honestly think that for the duration of their bail they are going to they are going to be upstanding citizens that that do nothing wrong of course not which means you're making the cops arrest the same person again hey Janet welcome to the Ben Mulroney show hi there my question is who's bailing these people out because surely these

people aren't coming from loaded families, people who have a lot. So who is actually bailing these people out of jail? Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. I genuinely don't know. I mean, you're right. I mean, shouldn't we find that out? Some of them could be being bailed out by the very organizations that they were working for in the first place.

I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure how the bail system works, but you're right. I mean, they're not, they're not loaded. If they were loaded, they wouldn't have gotten into the drug trade in the first place. That's a very good point. I don't know. But but it's just so frustrating. And thank you, Janet, for the call. Nathan, welcome to Ben Mulroney show. I love the way you had that set up with the press conference and that one reporter being like, so what's the status of bail? And it was like, you could, it was just like there, the air got sucked out of the room.

Yeah. I'll take it one further and I'm not being facetious. I'm actually saying, what is the point in the public even spending the money to take these drugs off the street when these guys are gonna be out in a day the drugs will be replaced because these gangs have 50 million dollars sure it's a hit but they're not gonna stop selling coke no they're not gonna stop this no guys who just got busted they have one choice now that's by the criminal organizations or work harder and replace the money you lost yeah so they're just gonna go out there and grind even harder create more by the criminal organizations or work harder and replace the money you lost. Yeah.

So they're just going to go out there and grind even harder, create more crimes, sell more drugs. Nathan, do you honestly think they're sitting at home right now waiting, waiting for trial like good citizens? Oh, they're going to go grind and beam them scams. And they're going to create more problems. So getting back, if they're not going to be held in jail, what is the point in even doing this? Well, that's the point in even doing this?

Well, that's my point. You're just making more work for the cops because you're just putting those criminals. And these are professional criminals. They know a thing or two about a thing or two. You think that this is the only hustle that they know? And so the cops just have to go, and you're making them do the same work again.

So anyway, thank you for the call. Let's take Ken. Ken, thank you so much for calling us the Ben Mulroney show. Good morning, Ben. Morning. One, one thing we're looking at the fact that it takes forever to get these cases into court and actually proceed with the hearings. And most of these times, their judges will request these charges be dropped because

it took too long. Right? That's it. That happens a lot, too. It's a criminal smart. He'll just say I'll stay in jail pretrial. I'll wait for a case because by the time it gets to court, it'll do two years. Yeah, six years served. Yeah, every time served released. Of course, of course, it's it's the Canadian way. And when I heard in the House of Commons yesterday, that I guess the I can't remember who the new minister is, but kept

referencing Canada's robust criminal justice system. If this is what passes for a robust criminal justice system, I would hate to see a criminal justice system in need of reform. Jason, welcome to the show. You are a police officer. Thank you for your service. Thanks very much, Ben.

And thank you for having me on. You got a lot of great ideas. I listen to you a lot. Thank you. So when you hear, when you very much, Ben, and thank you for having me on. You got a lot of great ideas. I listen to you a lot. Thank you. So when you hear, when you see this, like you gotta be proud of your brothers and sisters in uniform for the hard work that they did. But what does it mean to you that a simple question

by a journalist, what's the status of their bail? I mean, what, how does that make you feel? It's incredibly frustrating, Ben. And you had a caller, I think two ago that was asking where the money comes to bail these folks out. And what people don't know what the public doesn't understand is generally speaking, no one is asked to put up any money. It's just a promise that you're going to supervise these persons. And, um, occasionally they What? My God. Hey. no attempts to get that money back from sureties. And so the whole surety responsibility has become a joke in our system. My God, I'm not sure if everyone understands that. No, I don't think they do. Hey, thank you, Jason. Thank you again. Thank you for your service. Thank

you for everything that you do. And thanks for calling into the Ben Mulroney show. We got just a few seconds left. Let's take Carrie. Carrie, welcome to the show. Hey, Ben, thanks for having me. No problem. And I hate to be the one to bring this up, but it's obviously a question that runs through all our minds. We're welcoming all these people to the country. We've seen these people. The pictures were shared everywhere. And you know, if you're coming into a new country and you're breaking laws, should we

not be having a discussion about instead of tying up our court system, our law enforcement, our taxpayer dollars, these people shouldn't be sent back home to where they came from. Well, I, and Carrie, thank you for, for putting that into the conversation. I haven't seen the pictures from what I understand. I thought a lot of them were truckers who went back and forth across the board, but I don't know. But yeah, a very good question and something that obviously that's a knock on effect of

this, but thank you all for giving us a call. Hey, when we come back, we're going back to your phone calls about calling 911. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. All right, we are going to go back to a conversation I started in the first segment of the show, and it's about 911 wait times. We talked on Monday about a first person account of a terrible incident that led to citizens having to do the job of what should have been done

by 911 and first responders. And then today we hear of a 15 year old who died of their wounds after being shot and 911 was not there to help despite being held on hold. These people who are with the 15 year old threw the kid in the back of a car, took them to what they thought was the nearest available health care clinic, did not have a trauma center so that kid had to be shipped to a trauma center and died. And now our mayor comes out and talks about how wait times are just not

good enough. Wait times have come down over the last year but it's absolutely not good enough. And I believe the call came in at 1001 night, and then it took six minutes and 42 seconds for the call to be answered, which is not acceptable, and the paramedics arrived at 10.11, which is 10 minutes. So within the four minutes, I guess, or three minutes after the call was, was received, the paramedics showed up. Yeah, I'm sorry, with all due respect to the mayor, that answer is not good enough. That answer is not good enough for the family of the 15 year old who died because we didn't have the right resources.

We as a city, rather, let me fix that. Our city government is reactionary in this. When it comes to frontline essential services, we are not proactive. We do not take the steps to fix something before it becomes a problem. And so it is underfunded. We are not looking at adequately at the technology that could help. Just look next door to Peel Region that's using AI to drop reaction time to 12

seconds as opposed to six minutes. And in some cases, 10, 12, 15 minutes on hold and the funding, the funding should be there. How do I know? Because last week our mayor gleefully announced that we were going to be funding pride after corporate sponsors bowed out because they didn't want to be part of it. The City of Toronto says, no, we're going to fill that funding gap. Last week I saw a video of our mayor saying $400 million was going to be spent on upgrading city parks, specifically the bathrooms in the city parks.

I think that is a fine and admiral thing to have on your to-do list. However, I humbly recommend that at the top of that list, before you start fixing urinals, you fix this. So we are exceptionally reactionary. We do not have a vision in this city. We go piecemeal, ad hoc, picking and choosing, cherry picking, where we spend money without a grand vision on how we can make our streets safer and how we can give taxpayers value for their tax dollars, reminding you that we have now had back to back years of double digit property tax increases. Why has that money not gone to this essential service?

Because we do not have vision at City Hall. That's why. So I want to take your calls. What the heck do we have to do to get some vision and some direction and some leadership on these key important files? Give us a call. 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225. Talk and let me know. Zach, thank you for calling into the Ben Mulroney show. Anytime, Ben. Definitely, I feel very sad that that kid had to go away like that. And it should never be like that in a first world country. Yeah. And you know, to be honest, like my wife went to school to go to the 911 operator. And she has been trying for like three years to try to get a job and she's never been able to get one. Yeah.

So it's definitely because we don't have enough people working in the system. Yeah. Yeah. In the most important part. Well, exactly. The safety part and the health part. It's unbelievable. The most basic stuff in this city, the snow removal,

garbage removal, keeping us again. 9-1-1. This this is the lowest hanging fruit, Zach. This is the stuff that should be automatic. It should be the stuff that occupies 90 percent of our of our city's time. And instead, we've got these pet projects. I mean, we have money earmarked from the city.

Earmarked earmarked for to spend on World the World Cup. We don't know what we're going to spend it on, but just in case we're keeping it over there. My goodness. What a tax 40 percent off our checks every single week.

Yeah. How come there's nothing being done about helping the actual people? It's sad, Ben. Exactly. Hey, Zach. Keep going, buddy. Thank you, my friend. Talk to you soon.

All right, let's welcome Maria to the conversation. Maria, you called an ambulance on Friday. Tell me this story. Yeah, we called an ambulance on Friday. We were at the Albany Club for an event and it was a predominant person of Toronto thinking we even dropped the name. And they said, we're busy. You'll have to call back. We were shocked.

So we put her in a car and we went to the hospital. Like it was crazy. Can I ask what the injury was to this person? Uh, sainted. We thought she was having, um, uh, it was not good. We have low blood pressure. We thought she was, she was having a heart attack. 911 told you we're busy call back later. Yeah, call back. We have low blood pressure. We thought she was, she was having a heart attack. And 911 told you, we're busy call back later? Yeah, call back. We're busy. I mean, like how does it make you feel that, um, you know, had that not happened at the Albany club and had that happened, you know,

somewhere in Peel region, they would have come pick you up in two, three minutes. Yeah, exactly. And like it was crazy. Like we thought this is nuts. Like we had to sort of figure out what we're going to do with this person. All the roads, like, you know, it's King and Church. It was all closed. Like, we couldn't get anywhere. It was crazy. Yeah, yeah, of course. And just think that if you're having a heart attack, there's seconds to save you. Well, exactly. Exactly. Hey, thank you. Maria, thank you. And I do hope that this person

is doing better. Thank you very much for the call. Thank you. All right, Frank.. Thank you very much for the call. All right, Frank, Frank, thanks so much for calling in. Yeah. Good morning, Ben. How are you? Well, thank you. What's your solution here? Well, you stole my thunder about the money. Like when I saw the news conference, they want to hire more paramedics and this and that. And I'm going, and then they go, we got no money. And I'm going, wait a minute. Did you just say you're gonna pride parade you're gonna give money to them what happened like why are you doing that like I'm not putting it

towards that not putting it towards the police yeah I've lived in the city all my life Ben I've never seen it it's an ugly city now it's no longer Toronto Frank like the way I see the world now, in terms of my life and what I want and the way I want to achieve things, I put things in two buckets, the must haves and the nice to haves. And increasingly, there's more must haves than nice, those things have changed given the pressures

of the financial burden of just being a Canadian these days. And I don't think this city appreciates the difference between things that Torontonian must have and the things that would be nice to have. And the fact that they prioritize pride and toilets over 9-1-1 to me is they've lost the plot. But I thank you for the call, Frank, and let's welcome George to the conversation. George, thanks. Thanks for calling in. Hey, Ben, how are you? You know, you know, exactly. If you know me by now from calling in so many times, you know exactly where you go with that. Yeah, special interest groups, my friend, if your special interest group cannot afford to run something on your members it probably

shouldn't exist. We've got to stop paying for every single thing. When I was a kid you know if we wanted something Boy Scouts we went we did a bottle drive. The parades in Oshawa were all paid for by the Italian cultural group, the Portuguese cultural group, the Ukrainian cultural group. Yeah, the Portuguese cultural group, the Ukrainian cultural group, we all did our parades and our things like that. None of it was funded. Well listen George, I appreciate, listen, there is there is an argument to be made that in the case of Pride, it is a massive economic driver for the City of Toronto. And so we do want a healthy Pride movement in this city.

That being said, the fact that the knee-jerk reaction by the mayor was to just throw money at Pride as opposed to doing what a leader should have done in that case, which was bring corporate leaders together and bring the Pride leadership together and say, how can we get you back to a place where you want to invest as opposed to us, the taxpayer picking up the slack, given the fact that we have a crisis on our hands with emergency services. To me, it's a lack of priorities. It's a lack of vision.

And it's irresponsible, not just with our tax dollars of which we have precious few, responsible, not just with our tax dollars of which we have precious few, or actually you guys have more than enough. You just, but I have precious few dollars left, but you are playing Russian roulette with the lives of Torontonians. And on that front, that to me, that's a bridge too far. It's just a bridge too far. This is, this is now, um, this is now, uh, uh, I'm, I'm really questioning the judgment of a lot of people who make decisions over at City Hall. I thank you all for your calls. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. I want to take the conversation in a different direction. I want to talk about

zero emission vehicles, electric vehicles. There has been a huge push for years to get Canadians to adopt these cars as an option, as an alternative to the internal combustion engine. And there are some great cars out there, some fantastic EVs on the road. Tesla makes them, you know, there's some great, there's some great cars from for all walks of life, but the cost is the barrier of entry for so many people. And so there were some incentives that were offered. I know that one of the first things that Doug Ford did when he became the premier of Ontario

was he removed the provincial incentive to buy one of these cars. And he even said at the time, he said, if you need the incentive to buy the car, then you probably shouldn't be buying the car. And there was a federal incentive as well, $5,000 to get into the EV market if you were a consumer that went away.

And the question is, do the feds bring it back? Well, there are some people with some opinions on this who say the market is dead, the market has spoken, people don't want these EVs and there should be no incentives and we should remove the mandate that the liberals put in place that dictated that the 20% of all automotive sales should be EVs by 2026, 60% in 2030, and 100% of all new cars

sold in Canada in 2035 should be EVs. Now keep in mind that as of right now we're sitting at about 6% sales, or is it 3% sales? I think it's three. It is, there is no appetite, no appetite for EVs without incentives. And this, by the way, I'm not the only one saying this, the Ford Canada CEO, Bev Goodman says that. She thinks that the mandate should go away, the incentives should go away. And the market is saying it should go away, the incentives should go away. And the market is saying

it should go away. So explain to me why our Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry, Melanie Jolie, had this to say. You know I think our goal has been always the same to get to net zero by 2050. We need to make sure that we take actions towards that and that's why it was part of our vision and our plan to have EV mandates. I think also that what the government can do, which will help to increase the demand, is definitely making sure that we're bringing back EV subsidies.

And that's in our platform. So we're looking forward to bring that back. And of course, continuing to engage with the auto sector that is going through a very difficult time. But I think that the auto sector is reacting to the fact that there's less demand than anticipated. I think that working on the demand side through subsidies will be helpful. So the heads of the auto sector are telling you there's no demand. The people are voting with their wallets and they are saying they want to buy traditional cars with internal combustion engines. And you are responding by saying, no, we want to double down,

we want to keep this mandate in, and we want to ensure that by 2035, every car that is sold in Canada is a car that Canadians are telling you they don't want. And to get us there, we're just going to throw money at the problem. A lot of money at the problem. So why are we so insistent as a nation to make this a thing? I get that EVs are part of a future strategy. I understand that. But people don't want them at the moment. Who make this a thing? I get that EVs are part of a future strategy. I understand that.

But people don't want them at the cost that they exist. Let's also forget it costs more to insure them as well. What am I not getting here? Am I fighting the future? Am I just a stick in the mud? Am I not, should I just get with the program? Or are Canadians simply saying this is not the time to be forcing people to buy these cars? Let me know what you have to think at

416-870-6400 or 1-888-225 talk. And let's start with Edwin. Edwin, thanks so much for calling in. Listen, my friend, it has to do with who is invested in the stock options on the electric vehicles 100% it has nothing to do with the environment it has nothing to do with affordability it a Brookfield is up to their neck in in EV investment the Ontario government's in the EV investment, and it's falling flat on its face. So they're just throwing more money at us.

That's it. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And look, I get that the feds and the Ontario government have invested a lot of money to be part of this, you know, the future economy of the supply chain of electric vehicles, building batteries and whatnot. But you know, governments make bad bets. We do it all the time.

Why are we so committed to this? What appears to be if it's not if it's not a bad bet, maybe it was a bet placed too soon because North America writ large are turning their backs on EVs because the cost are too high. The cost to maintain them are too high. The cost to ensure them are too high. And I love EVs because the costs are too high, the costs to maintain them are too high, the costs to ensure them are too high. And I love EVs. I've always wanted to have an EV, but it's beyond my capacity to pay for it this time.

So I'd love to hear, keep these calls coming. John, welcome to the show. You drive an EV. John, you there? Yes, hello. Hi. So you drive an EV, John? Yes, I drive the Lightning, the Ford F-150 Lightning, and I? Yes. Hello. Hi. So you drive an EV, John?

Yes. I drive the Lightning, the Ford F-150 Lightning, and I love it. Great. And I feel that there's a lot of bad publicity going towards it. Now, I've had it for two years now, and I don't have to pay no maintenance, none of that stuff. Okay. Yeah.

Now, in respect to everybody that doesn't drive an EV, I get it, you know, you have to watch your wallet and say, Hey, you know, it is cheaper on the monthly payments or a gas powered vehicle, but then you're still paying the gas. Sure. But that like, but from what I understand, depending on the vehicle, it could take three, four, five years for it to become worth the additional cost because of the cost savings of not having to gas up your car. But a lot of people don't keep their car five years. They get a three-year lease.

So anyway, I take your point. I thank you very much. Let's welcome Gail to the conversation. Gail, you've got a plug-in hybrid. I like hybrids. Yes. But those are Gail to the conversation. Gail, you got a plug-in hybrid. I like hybrids. Yes. But those are not part of the mandate. They don't want that part of the mandate. It's got to be a zero emission vehicle. Well, the thing is, and we were fortunate, we've had ours for four years. They're really hard to get. And we did get the $5,000 at the time. And with our trade-in,

it was less than $40,000, which was great. And we love it. And the thing is, they are good because even when you're using the gas engine, it shuts off. Yeah, Gail, I don't mean to interrupt you. I just wish I wish that they that that those were part of the conversation about hybrids are verboten in a world of the ZEV mandate. Hey, we got time for 20 20 seconds with Scott. Scott, tell me what's on your mind. Can you say carbon tax in a different form? Because that's what the government is about to do. They're going to, oh, we need no carbon tax, but they're going to call it something

else. They are going to force us to just economically. No, you're right. You know what it's going to be? I could absolutely see a world where there's a mandate to buy electric vehicles and they penalize those of us in our types of cars.