The Ben Mulroney Show - Emergency Act use was NOT justified/Carney goes EV shopping in China

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

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Only till January 21st. Shop in store or at metro.com. Welcome to the show. I'm going to have to correct our big band leader because it's not just all across the nation. I find myself in beautiful Miami, Florida today. I came down here for a little bit of work and I got stuck. I got stuck. Welcome to the show. It's a, what are we? We're Friday. We made it to the end of the week. Thank you so much for joining us on Friday, January 16th. And Intrepid producer, are you there? Yes, I am. It's so weird not seeing you. I'm looking at an empty chair. Yeah, it's a heck of a thing.

I got to say, when I woke up yesterday morning, the goal was leave on an 8 o'clock flight, come back on a 7.30 flight. I was going to be back in time to do the show, no problem. And to which I said, well, when I woke up, when I woke up, there was 15, at least 15 centimeters of snow at 5 a.m. And white out conditions. I get to the airport, delay, delay, delay, white out, white out, white out. we get on the plane and then we sit there for four hours on the plane on the tarmac we went to de-icing once then we sat there and then the pilot gets on the horn and he says yeah we got to we waited too long we got to de-ice again so we had to wait and go back to de-icing and then we had to wait to take off

it was about a it was over eight hours in something that should have taken three and a half that's insane yeah being having to sit on the plane for that long before you sat in the plane longer on the ground than it took the fly to Florida. Yeah. I'll tell you the thing that really irritated me, though. And I have a lot of time for Air Canada, and I know that this was an act of God, and it was not a, you know, they can't control this. But they had to sit there. Look, we would have landed before noon, right? And everybody could have gotten off and gone for their lunch. Instead, we get there, you know, way past then. So we're sitting there for

four hours. And then we fly for three. When we finally get to a point where we can, where they can do the service, they charged for food. And I looked into that. And it's because, ha ha ha, and it's a gray area. It's because it's an act of God, because they have no control over the weather. If they had allowed you to deplane, then maybe it would have been something different. Or not get on in the first place.

See, that's what I think. Like we got on and sat there for four hours, as opposed to waiting in the airport, where people have the freedom to do and move around and use the bathroom and all sorts of stuff. And part of me thinks, and I don't know whether this is a policy, and I'm just guessing,

but part of me thinks they boarded us so that they could avoid all of that stuff. They could avoid paying, like giving everybody food vouchers and that sort of thing. Are you suggesting that the airlines may be? I don't know, man. Because all of a sudden they're like, okay, so would you like something to eat? And we're like, yeah. And they said, well, it'll be $5.99 for a breakfast sandwich.

Meanwhile, it's two in the afternoon. We haven't eaten anything. And the only thing we can buy is from you. That, to me, that rubbed me the wrong way. I thought at the very least for having sat there patiently for four hours. Now we're in the air for three and a half. you know what we got all this food we're gonna give it to you so now you're by the way one of the reasons they claimed we were waiting is because we were waiting for them to load the food

yeah they're gonna charge you for that they then charged us for after sitting there for most of the day that's a little mean you didn't tell me that part I mean it rubbed me the wrong way I understand they have a tough job and I have like I said I got a lot of time for Canada's airlines it's a big country we don't have a lot of people they they do their best and and the staff on the plane were great, but I just didn't like the fact that they were nickel and diming us in the air. I thought at the very least, they were going to

okay guys, everyone gets something to eat. Sorry for the weight. So now you're stuck in Miami, you know, the sun is shining. You're able to, you know, walk around on the beach if you want. You can, you're probably sockless wearing some turquoise jacket like Miami Vice and

this music is playing in your head. Long shake your body, baby. Do that conga. I know you can't control yourself. Everywhere you go. Well, of course of all, let me just tell you, that music is always playing in my head. Gloria is never far from my thoughts. Gloria, she's never far from my thoughts. However, mid-dinner last night, I get another text from Eric Canada saying,

we've booked you on the next available flight because your flights canceled tomorrow morning. Instead, you're leaving at 7.35 tomorrow night. So definitely not the next available. Through Tampa, which means I was going to get home. well after 1 a.m. And if you look at the, I put in the flight statistics here from just a little while back at Pearson, and the arrival, still 19% of flights are canceled. This is pretty much almost 24 hours after the snow stopped falling.

Yeah. They still have that many canceled, 35% delayed, and only 46% on time. So you think well after one, I think well after, well after that. Yeah, well, I just, I don't know what I was thinking, but part of my brain was like, Well, because the flight will be taking off from a place where there is no snow, we should be able to, we should get out on time. But I guess that's not happening. I guess there's a chain of events that leads to the plane that's going to be in Miami, not being in Miami. But anyway, I was mercifully, I was talking with the organizers of this event.

And they said, Ben, you know, just stay another night. We'll get you on the same flight tomorrow morning. So I'm on a 7.30 tomorrow morning. And when fingers crossed, I get home in time. So you have another day of going, you know, wearing shoes with no socks. You keep saying that. I had no time today. Don Johnson, man, Miami Vice.

Listen, I'm wearing exactly what I wore yesterday. Right now. You wear every day. Yeah. And I'm going back to the hotel after this. I'm taking a long shower and I'm ordering room service. That's my night. That's my Miami experience.

Oh, that sounds like a dream. Yeah, but look, I mean, I woke up today like so many people with so much news. I mean, we woke up to the Chinese TV story. Yep, which we'll get into. And then midday, yes, and we will listen, there's a lot of big stories. we are not going to shoehorn everything into one segment. We will be talking about the Chinese EV story, absolutely, the deal that Mark Carney struck with China to lower tariffs on

49,000 EVs to come into this country. The knock-on effects of that are going to be significant and not all of them positive. And also, we don't want to be the people screaming saying the sky is falling. I mean, relative to how many cars we actually buy every year, This is a drop in the bucket. We draw Canada buys about 1.8 million vehicles a year. So the fact that 49,000 are coming into Canada,

that's not even 49,000 sold. That's 49,000 coming into the case. It's not, it's not huge, but it is opening the door to something we previously said we would never do. So there is, you know, this is a bigger story than just 49,000 vehicles. Yeah, it's what, and look, also high praise for reducing the tariffs on Canada's canola, as well as all those other food stuffs that are going to finally be, the market to China is going to be open just a little bit more.

That's a very big deal. I know that Scott Moe of Saskatchewan has been working very hard on getting those canola tariffs lifted. So that's a very big deal. And where we go from here as a nation that builds cars and sells cars is a huge question. We're not going to be able to answer it all today. However, there's another story that we have to get into.

The one that we're going to start with, and we'll start now, we'll continue with it a little bit later, is the major ruling today that the Federal Court of Appeal says Trudeau's 2020 Emergency Act invocation was not legally justified. And this is a three-judge panel unanimously agreeing that the feds overreached during the Freedom Convoy. And remember, the convoy was late January 22 as a protest against the Fed's COVID vaccine mandates for cross-border truckers. it quickly expanded into a broader demonstration about all pandemic restrictions. And all anti-trudeau stuff, basically. A lot of anti-trudeau stuff. And look, my take on this is one rule, like one rule for everybody. And watching how heavy-handed the federal government was in prosecuting those that they felt were guilty of organizing this thing.

I mean, we're still, those people are still dealing with this. And that would have been one thing. But this country has been paralyzed, not for three straight concentrated weeks, but in sporadic upheavals of pro-Palestinian outrage, where they take over vast swaths of cities and intimidate Jews. I mean, you could argue that the emergency has been a low-grade one for two and a half years because of that, as opposed to a chronic one that we had for three weeks in Ottawa. And no emergencies act there. No one's really getting arrested. Nobody has to take time out of their lives. No, he has to hire massive lawyers.

No one's lives have been disrupted by that. And it just feels like we have two-tiered justice. One for the people who said F. Trudeau and the other one for the people who said F. Israel. And I don't like that. I don't like that at all. Anyway, what are your thoughts on it? Well, I mean, you know that I covered that as a reporter.

I was in Ottawa. I was in Windsor. And so we don't have a lot of time before our first break here. But, you know, I thought originally it was the right thing to do to bring in the Emergencies Act, but they went too far. The bank accounts and how long it went on and on in the courts, it went too far. But they needed to do something because it was disruptive. When we come back, we're speaking with the executive director of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association about this very topic. Don't go anywhere. The Ben Mulerney Show marches on. What does top talent really want?

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BlueJ. AI for tax experts. You are listening to the Ben Mulroney show, and you are probably wondering what to make of this ruling today by the Federal Court of Appeals that said that the invocation in 2022 of the Emergencies Act was not legally justified. It was used to bring the downtown Ottawa blockade by the Freedom Convoy to an end. But it went beyond that. It went beyond that with the freezing of bank accounts, banning public assembly. And then, of course, you had the organizers who have been fighting for their freedom in court

and had been fighting for their freedom in court for years. Something, by the way, if I can editorialize for a second, we don't see a whole lot of in this country. Most people feels like they get bail and they move on and then they go back to do it whatever they were doing, not in this case. So what does this mean? What are the broader implications of this judgment

by the Federal Court of Appeals here to talk about? Howard Saipers, the executive director of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association. Howard, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks. So is this a good day? You know, this is a great day, and it's also historic day. So we've got the federal court of appeal affirming a decision of the federal court, and that decision was that the government did not meet the legislative threshold

to invoke the Emergencies Act. Now, the Emergencies Act is the most potent weapon the government has to fight insurrection, you know, to a national. emergency. And it actually shudders all kinds of civil liberties and charter rights when they do that. And so there should be a very high threshold before that's allowed to happen legally. Yeah. This was the first time the Emergencies Act had ever been used. And so it really needed to be tested in court. It was. Now this appeal is the second time that the decision has gone against the federal government, that in fact it didn't meet the threshold. It was too broad.

And this is great because what it means is that there's now some guidance and guidelines, maybe some guardrails that would stop the government from inappropriately using this very powerful law. And what it means is that for Canadians, it means that their civil liberties and their charter rights will not be trampled upon because of government overreach. So, yeah, I think this is a very good day. Well, it's not lost on me that the party that loves to drape itself in the charter, calling itself the party of the charter, was the one that the court said shredded and trampled upon the charter. What should the government have done instead of invoking the Emergencies Act? Well, it's not just the government.

There's commentary, for example, in the decision. It's a very dense legal decision. It's available publicly if anybody wants to read it. It's over 180 pages long. But there's commentary there, for example, about the role of provinces that also have distinct provincial legislation and responsibilities and can declare emergencies and typically have provincial police, either under contract or provincial police that they've constructed themselves. We have the Criminal Code of Canada, which means that any law enforcement agency could choose to enforce certain laws of the Criminal Code. So it's not just what the federal government may have or should have done, but it's maybe what Ontario could have assured it done or maybe what Ottawa city police should have done. Or when those blockades spread out across the country into southern Alberta and into Southern British Columbia, for example, maybe what those jurisdictions should have done.

Well, and also, Howard, it seems to me the truckers telegraphed what they were going to do. And by the way, I thought, you know, show a force, make yourself be known and then go away. It went on way too long. And those people who, people like myself who may have been receptive to their message were turned off very quickly by the disorder and the chaos that they were causing. But they did say what they were going to do. Why the city of Toronto or a city of Ottawa did not create a bubble around the area they said that they were going to take over and avoid this entirely from the get-go. don't know. It seems to me this was a problem that could have been avoided with a little more forethought an organization by the city of Ottawa. Yeah, you know, and I guess there's many people that would

agree with you. And, you know, the CCLA, when we launched this application for a judicial review a couple of years ago to take the government to court to prove that they were doing the right thing. It wasn't really about the truckers. You know, the freedom convoy, as it's called, was the context in which this all happened. But the legal issue was whether the law was legally and lawfully applied. Yeah. So standing up for or supporting this decision by the judge is not a defense or a show of solidarity with the truckers in any way. It's simply a recognition that the the government overstepped and it could and I guess that's where I want to take the conversation next. I wonder if the context of the past few years with protest, pro-Palestinian protests in cities like

Toronto that seems to seem to have popped up with impunity whenever they've wanted. I mean, they've caused disruption as well over the course of years. And so this was this was an intense three weeks as opposed to the low-grade fever of the past two and a half years. And it feels like the law has been applied differently. One was an emergency that had to be dealt with with a sledgehammer and the other feels like kid gloves. And I wonder if that dichotomy is what led the courts to decide what they decided. Yeah. You know, I think that, yeah, I mean, absolutely true that there's a difference in their response.

There's also, though, a difference in, if I can use this word, and I don't mean to diminish anything, but, you know, a difference in the nuisance, right? The, what happened to downtown Ottawa was persistent. It was 24-7. It was getting worse, not better. The street demonstrations that are popping up across Canada on other issues tend to be very episodic. And the thing is, we can deal with those with municipal bylaws and with the criminal code. We have very good hate speech law in this country, for example. And those laws can be enforced. And so question to local police departments is, are they actually looking for evidence of that crime being committed?

And if they aren't, then I would certainly question why they aren't. Because, again, one of the takeaways from this federal court of appeal decision is that something like the Emergencies Act has to be a last resort. You have to do everything else in your power. to stop the problem before you can use this sledgehammer. So what could have or should have Ottawa done? What could have or should have Toronto police be doing differently? What could have or should have Ontario be doing?

Because we have existing laws. Let's use them. Yeah. Would it be a good look for the federal government to appeal this? You know, I don't know. I've been thinking about that ever since 11 o'clock this morning when this decision came out. There's some logic to suggest this should go to the Supreme Court and get a final definitive sort of answer. There's other opinion which is, you know, this is two strikes. Do you really want to strike out?

And, of course, getting it settled, even at the Supreme Court, might not actually be getting it settled. There's nothing to stop the parliament from amending the law. Right. and changing it perhaps in ways that make it perhaps even worse or more dangerous to our civil liberty. So I don't think this is absolutely over. No, well, but I'm also wondering about Howard, I'm wondering about those who were prosecuted following the use of the Emergency Act, those who had their bank accounts frozen. If it wasn't legally applied, is the door open for them to seek financial redress for the ill because of it?

Yeah, you know, I mean, I clearly not familiar with all the individual facts, but I will say this. I would be surprised that there weren't a whole bunch of people that were talking to their lawyers this afternoon. Yeah, no way. I think so. Again, there were some people. And look, I'm not making a judgment on those people or their behavior. But to have watched some of these people go through the courts for years and have their financial life limited by having their bank accounts frozen with no due process.

If I were them, I would be talking to a lawyer as well to see what exactly my rights in this situation are. Howard, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for offering sort of a very measured analysis of what came down the pike today. And I'm sure this is not the end of the story. And I hope you'll come back as the story evolves. Yeah, anytime. Nice speaking with you again. All right. When we come back, we're talking about the huge news. Mark Carney went to China and a whole lot of stuff changed.

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offers a physician-led, full-body checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today and may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer the healthier you means more moments to cherish take control of your well-being and book an assessment today med can live well for life visit medcan.com slash moments to get started yes indeed it's the ben mulrooney show and the the other big news today obviously the decision on the emergencies act was one part the second part the the two-headed monster that we're dealing with today is Mr. Carney went to China and came home with a number of deals. And depending on who you are and depending on what your values are, he either hit home runs or he has put us in a pretty precarious spot.

Mark Carney, here's what Mark Carney has said about China in the past. Well, we're in a security section. I think we didn't have a chance to talk about anything internationally. I think the biggest security threat to Canada is China. Okay, so that was during the election campaign. And recently, just as early as this morning, we found out that he and his government have struck a deal with China to allow up to 49,000 Chinese-made electric vehicles into Canada at a far reduced tariff down from 100% to 6.1%. In exchange, China will slash tariffs on Canadian canola seed from 84% to about 15% as well as remove tariffs on canola, meal, lobster. crab and peas. So there's some stuff here to really like, right? Really, really like. And before I am accused of rage baiting here, I recognize, I fully recognize that Canada,

in Canada, we buy about 1.8 million vehicles a year, of all types. So 49,000 Chinese vehicles in and of itself, the number does not represent a huge one. However, critics, of this deal, which includes Pierre Poliyev and Ontario Premier Doug Ford, warn the move could undercut Canada's auto sector and poses security concerns. Let's listen to Doug Ford's early assessment of this deal. I'm going to say the exact same thing. What I said right in here, you know, this wasn't thought out, no consultation at all. He always preaches partnership.

This is anything but a partnership. And it's totally, totally unacceptable that he's bringing in. Chinese made cars and that are totally subsidized. They're going to undermine every auto manufacturer here. Mark Carney said the deal is part of a new strategic partnership with China to diversify trade and reduce reliance on the U.S. Now, Canada's EV quota is under 3% of the auto market, and the goal would be to raise this from 49,000 to 70,000 vehicles within five years. And he argues that cheaper Chinese EVs will benefit consumers and attract Chinese investment to Canada. I don't doubt any of that.

I really don't doubt any of that. My issue, well, I've got a few issues, but one of them is the sequence of events in which we find ourselves with this deal today. And what I mean by that is we don't have a deal with America on anything. And the USMCA is up for renegotiation on June 1st. So we got nothing.

And the one thing we do have, the one thing that has been in place years. First, it was free trade, then NAFTA, then USMCA. That's in question. And let's look at some of the things we've done. We recognized a Palestinian state without a deal. Now we've gone to China and made a deal on EVs without a deal with him. Had we had our prime minister done what he said he was going to do and get us a deal with the Americans by, what was it, June 1st of last year, then all of that, that would have been baked in and we could have done these things without fear that this stuff would be leveraged against us when it comes time to renegotiate the USMCA. You know, the Brits have a deal.

EU has a deal. France has a deal. They all have deals. So when they go off and do what they want on foreign policy or make decisions that the United States wouldn't want, it doesn't matter. They have a deal. Now, it's not, it's a deal in principle. It doesn't really have teeth to it yet. But there is a deal that they've signed.

We have signed nothing. And Donald Trump is nothing if not mercurial, right? And for those people who got upset at Doug Ford's commercial that upset Donald Trump, then be upset about this stuff too. Right? If you thought that that was enough that could cause, put a deal at risk, now do China. Now do the EVs. Now do all the things that Donald Trump, you know will not like.

Be consistent in your criticism. because if you thought a commercial about Ronald Reagan was enough to upset any potential deal, how do you think it's going to look that we're allowing EVs into the market? Again, let's go back to Doug Ford on how he qualifies these cars. Well, first of all, anyone who buys these cars, they won't be allowed to go to the U.S. You know, cybersecurity. I call it the spy car that they're bringing in, and they won't be able to allow it to get over there. and it's going to tick off the Americans.

80% of our autos are going down there. I believe that speaking to the auto sector, speaking to the supply chain as well, they were coming up with a collaborative agreement, but now throw China in here for what? They aren't going to manufacture here. So it's just a terrible, terrible, miscalculated decision by the prime minister.

And look, I am not so naive that I would say we can never do business with China because China doesn't have the same values as us. I'm not that guy, right? I take the world as it is. And China is a huge market, and there's a whole bunch of goods that are made there that we want that we have.

We already do a ton of trade with China. A little more is not bad, especially if we're looking to diversify from our trade with the United States. However, we are still looking to trade with the United States. We're still looking to work with them. We can't decouple completely. Anybody who suggests that is,

insane and doesn't understand the world, doesn't understand how much of our entire economy depends on a healthy relationship with the United States. But at this point, I don't know how much more we can put on the table that Donald Trump can leverage against us when deciding whether or not even wants to renegotiate the USMCA. I think cooler heads will prevail, but we haven't made our jobs easy. And before any of these decisions were made, we had a tough time dealing with them. It's not any easier today. It's now harder. Our prime minister has made his job harder. And I get it. We have to do something. And reducing the tariffs on canola. Great idea. Congratulations. Well done. It was about time. Our canola farmers found themselves in the middle

of a fight that they didn't ask for. They did nothing wrong in this. And here we were, and they got lumped into this because Donald Trump wanted to kill our automotive industry. Is there a path forward where this could be this could be positive? Look, I think there's probably a difference between Chinese made EVs, Chinese EVs and EVs made in China, right? There are there are companies that make their EVs in China that are not Chinese owned. However, that doesn't help us with our own automotive sector. And if these things are, if these things are as popular as people think they're going to be,

And they say, you know, a $35,000 EV is an affordable EV. Yes, but $35,000 means a North American equivalent, it's probably around 70 grand. I don't know what you can get for 70 grand, but I'm sure you can get a Tesla for 70 grand, right? So that's what you've got to be comparing it to. It's not the cost of the car. It's the value of the car. And the value that you get for a Chinese EV, given the fact they don't have to worry about unions or labor standards or overtime or, you know, anything to do with unions or health and safe. none of that stuff, you're going to get a cheaper car.

You can get a high value car at a cheaper cost. So to suggest, oh, like this is going to be like a cheap, you know, like a Honda Civic, an EV version of a Honda Civic. No, no, no, no, no. It's going to be a far, far higher quality car than that. It's going to be competing with some heavy hitters here in Canada. This is, this is not as, it's not a home run. It's just the next step in a really complicated relationship that I think has gotten

even more complicated. Here's a couple of texts we got. Had Ford not run an ad to soothe his ego, we might have had a Kazma deal in place. Oh, I hope you just heard what I said. Give me a break. Give me a break. And I've also made the case that the president had no problem with the ad when he heard it. But something changed after a couple of days, and then he had a hiss he fit.

So, like, come on, that's disingenuous. I'm not even going to read the rest of that text. I am sure if this will go through, but he was hoping. Just a thought about the 49,000 EVs that are coming into our country. Maybe we could just send out a note to everyone. Would you please not buy these? Just leave them in a lot and don't buy them. I'm sure no one will listen, but it just seems like our country is losing its mind.

I just think that had we gotten a deal that we were told we were going to get in June, we could have made a deal like this because we would have had the Americans locked in and their commitment on that new trade and security deal that never materialized. each. Shop in store and online until January 21st. Food basics, always more for less. We have hit us today from finding out that the invocation of the Emergencies Act by the Trudeau Liberals to counteract the Freedom Convoy was not applied legally and learning that Chinese EVs will be hitting the Canadian market in short order. That's what we want to talk to you about here on the Ben Mulroney show. So give us a call. Either topic is fair game. Let us know.

not see the calls coming in, so you're going to have to let me know. But as we wait for those calls to come in, I want to give you a little bit of audio from Christine Van Gein. She's a litigation director at the Canadian Constitution Foundation. Here's what she had to say about those people whose bank accounts were frozen. So those people who might have experienced damages, their own damages, would have their own civil lawyers. I believe they are already in the process of bringing civil claims against the government. We're not involved in those, but this decision would certainly help their case. Our position is that this is a matter of broad generational public importance to hold a government

accountable in the future. It's like I said, it's not lost on me that the party that drapes itself in the charter. Oh, the liberal party is the party of the charter. They're the ones who invoked the charter shredding emergencies act. And I don't think we should let them forget that anytime soon. Anytime a provincial government says they want to use the notwithstanding clause and they get pooh-poohed by the liberal. remind them of this decision.

Hey, Richard, welcome to the Ben Mulrooney show. Hey, Ben. I'm looking forward to seeing Dougie Ford have a recum race or a demolition derby with some Chinese EPs and watching them go up in fire because if we think that the Tesla problem, which is a far superior technology, is dangerous and equally dirty, the Chinese sourcing and supply chain is going to be even, and dirtier, and I'm pretty sure their safety won't be adequate as well. Having said that,

with respect to Carney, not bringing home the bacon, his words are as empty as one could be, and his other words that I am most concerned about, seemingly innocuous, kind of like the emergency powers or emergency youth's authorization, just like ethnic cleansing or the final solution, The words New World Order are not some innocuous terminology. They mean some very ominous things. And people who don't understand that need to. Yeah, well, and I appreciate both of the things you said. I cannot speak to the safety of Chinese EVs.

What I have heard is the technology that they are using is in certain cases, and there's lots of different technologies that are packaged into an EV. In certain situations, certain companies, certain aspects of those cars are in fact. fact, far more advanced than a lot of what we have in the market in North America. I'm pretty sure that Tesla is the gold standard for the entire car itself, but could China have a battery technology that is better than Elon's? Maybe. I guess we'll learn about these things as we learn about which cars are allowed into the Canadian market. But again, that's a wait and see thing. I don't think that Chinese EVs coming into the country in and of themselves is a bad thing.

It's what is this going to mean to our relationship with the Americans? How is this going to affect our auto manufacturing sector? Those are questions that need to be answered. I'm not prepared to condemn the liberal government for this decision. I am prepared to criticize them for not getting us the deal. We were promised, which is why we elected Mark Carney and his Liberal Party. We were promised a deal. We didn't get it.

Now we find ourselves potentially having given Donald Trump some ammo against us and possibly creating a situation where he says, a bridge too far, I can't see I'd eye with these people. That's it. USMCA, we're done. I don't know that they'll get there, but it could. It could. Hey, Kyle, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show.

Well, thanks for taking my call, Ben. Absolutely. I was talking to your producer, and he kind of hit the nail on the head talking to me there, that Mark Carney just didn't seem to take advice from anybody when making this EV deal. I don't know who we contacted and who we consulted, but it just seemed like he had tunnel vision when he's making any type of these large decisions. And the consumers talking about helping, these consumers are Canadian consumers who also work in Canada. And I'm going to guess a large majority of them work in the manufacturing section.

So their jobs will be affected by these EVs being imported. Yeah. And I've got to, yeah, Kyle, I'm going to leave it there with you because I've got a few more calls I want to get to. But, you know, I'm not the one that positioned myself as environment first, right? The Liberal Party has been that for years. They've been willing to weaken the Canadian economy in order for us to be able to say, we've got clean hands on the economy.

I dispute that on the environment. I dispute that they achieved any of that. But they were the ones who positioned themselves as the great defenders of the environment. And China, as we deepen our ties with them, we have to recognize that they are the number one polluter on the planet. And how they square that circle,

there may be a justification for it. How they square that circle is entirely up to them. Rob, thanks for calling in. What do you think? Hi, Ben. A quick introduction. I'm former chair of the Canadian Manufactures an export association. I was there when the CTA agreement got signed in Toronto with Harper.

And by the way, your dad and Harper were the best PMs this country's had since Sir John A. Well, thank you very much. Well, it's true. A couple of things. A lot of misconceptions about the Chinese. auto sector. First of all, we in Canada, we consume a million two cars

a year. We're bringing 50,000 Chinese vehicles, so it's less than 5% of what we do. And look, I'm an ardent manufacturer love it here, but we are owned, like the auto sector is owned by the big

three plus two very reputable Japanese companies Honda and Toyota, which seem to have trying to at least retain their The other three are turncoats, in my view, because unless we buy them off with sweetheart deals to the tune of $1.1 million per employee, that's just insane. I would rather have us establish on the shores of Lake Erie an assembly plant, a Chinese assembly plant, so the Americans can see what it is they can't get. We toured, delegates from the CME have toured Chinese auto plants. The reason they're inexpensive, one of them, certainly labor rate is one, but they are more automated and consume less hours per car than we do because we have unions that right now, like as a Ford, are getting fully paid, but not producing a car.

Yeah, I saw a video, Rob, I saw a video of the Xiaomi cars that are being built in almost fully automated factories. And then when the car is done, it drives itself onto the lot. Eventually it drives itself onto the container boats, ships that then ship it wherever. And then they drive themselves off the boat. So they're saving money at every single turn. My fear for Canada is with the stroke of a pen and with a truth social, Donald Trump, says as of today, if there are anybody from Canada that's driving into the United States, if they're coming in a Chinese EV, they better just turn around because they're not getting in.

I mean, he can do that by executive order. We've seen him do far worse than that. And so my point is this may be a great decision down the road, but in the medium term, the short medium term, as we are trying to get a new deal with the United States, which is paramount, I don't know that we've done ourselves any favors. James, thank you so much for the call. I do appreciate the counterpoint, and I'm absolutely willing to listen. I am not here to disparage the government for doing what they think is best. I'm just worried about the knock-on consequence. Debbie, welcome to the show. Hi, Ben. Really good to talk to you. And I wondered if why Mr. Carney sitting beside Jolie, I don't know her last name, and Scott Moe, say in a very weird way of saying this, he was. speaking and then he goes, the new world order.

Yes, it was definitely, it was very ominous. It was very ominous. And those words are loaded. New world order is a very loaded expression. And so I can see that. But he was asked, I believe, in a press conference right after that, what he meant. And I think he was probably trying to mitigate any sort of worry that people had by saying, look, it's still being determined.

And I don't think he's wrong on that. I don't think he's wrong that there is a realignment going. on that the United States is sort of forcing change upon individual countries and individual alliances and those alliances and those those shifts are going to lead to new dynamics that previously didn't exist now what that's going to look like and is the sky falling I I don't know but he really did new world order our intel chain is compromised new on showcase you were hacked you're telling me it's real someone's been watching and listening through you

Leo. We can either attempt to remove what's in your brain or we keep back open. Melissa Barrera. We need to use you to find them and destroy them. Tell me why you chose me. We either save the mission or save his life. The Copenhagen Test. All new Tuesdays, only on Showcase.

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