The Ben Mulroney Show - Friday political panel blows up text and phone lines

Episode Date: June 20, 2026

Our prolific political panel dissects the G7, unpacks a surprising criminal sentence and grades PM Mark Carney in a segment that blows up the BMS text and phone lines. Join guests Ashley Waters, co-host of The Party Lines on The News Forum and Chris Chapin, Political Commentator, Managing Principal of Upstream Strategy for a segment that results in huge listener reaction. If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠   Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Well, I love this time of the Friday show because I get to share the mic with two great guests of the show, Ashley Waters, co-hosting the party lines and the news forum. Ashley, welcome to the show. Oh, I can't hear you, Ashley. we're going to try to figure that out in a while I say hi to Chris. Chris Chapin, political commentator managing principle at upstream. Chris, how you doing? Wonderful, Ben. How are you?

I'm good. Ashley, you there? Nothing yet. Nothing yet. Maybe we disconnect or reconnect. All right, we're going to do that. And while we do, I want to start, I'll start with you, Chris, that I'm so glad we got this. It was self-evident.

It was evident to so many of us. they've been screaming to the high heavens to responsibly develop our natural resources because the world needs more of what we've got and it needs more of the stuff we have from a place like Canada, the G7 backing Canada as a major global energy superpower. If we're drilling for it or if we're ready to export it,

they're willing to buy it. How do you feel about this? Ben, I couldn't agree more. The only thing that I think pisses me off is it took this long. for this to happen. Yeah. You know, it felt like we were all getting gaslit by the previous prime minister and his

minister of environment who kept telling us there was no business case for half of these natural resources that Canada was, you know, just blessed with. And so I thought, you know, it's kind of ironic. It comes on the heels of us beating Qatar yesterday, hosted the World Cup and could host the World Cup with all the riches of all the natural resources they pulled out of the ground. And yet we've got wait lists for emergency rooms. We have doctor shortages. We have so much natural and, you know, an abundance.

of wealth that we're sitting on as a country. It feels good that we're finally moving forward on it. You know, call me crazy that I'm not overly confident. We're ever going to get this stuff out of the ground. But like at least the acknowledgement and the backing of our G7 leaders feels like we're maybe getting to a place where this is actually going to come to fruition. And the great thing is it's great for all of us as Canadians. And I'm glad you referenced the gaslighting of it.

And Ashley, I'm going to bring you in it. Ashley can let me talk for me. Let me hear if I can hear you. no still nothing still not i think i think we've got to hang up and and jiggle the handle or do something i don't know we got to we got to try to get ashley back uh but chris yeah it's and and you're right look i i i'm happy to get the validation because it it's it shows us that we're not crazy that we were being lied to and i do believe it was a lie and we were being told all sorts of reasons why it couldn't happen and now we literally have our allies in this multilateral world that

that Mark Carney is thriving in, that he wants to be, that he wants to be respected and he wants Canada to punch above its weight in. And they are telling us, they're giving us the cheat code on how to achieve that. And it's just a shame that now we have to spin up the machinery now. Now we've got to start doing it. It would have been great had we been doing it for the past 10 years. To me, Chris, the expression, the lost liberal decade means more today. than it did before.

It was an expression before, but now it's an actual thing. It really is, Ben, and it's, it's frustrating. It goes back to what I said. Like, I think of all the wealth that we see generated in the Middle East over the last decade,

the towers, the incredible structures that have built, been built in, in Dubai and, you know, across Saudi Arabia and Riyadh, that could have been money that was being poured into Canada's economy. You know,

Chris, I'm going to interrupt you because I hear that Ashley is available to us. Yes, Ashley, how are you? Yes. When it comes to energy, you know, we are a superpower, right? We've got Bruce Power.

We've got Can Do nuclear reactors. And I think that people want a stable, democratic, you know, ally that they can rely on when it comes to energy. It's just whether or not we can produce that, right? Whether we get these pipelines push through, whether we can go and instruct those critical minerals that we need to do. And I think that's going to be our limitation if we have any. But the limitation, Ashley, is the fact that we cannot provide that which they desperately want now. And listen, I'm loath to go back and litigate the past. But the past is very much present.

Like the absence of the things they need is because of decisions that were made. And they were made, I believe not in good faith. I believe it was ideology that Trump'd react. and that it's hard for me to get over that. And I'm not, I don't want to be petty. As a matter of fact, I want these next two segments to be defined by a lack of pettiness. But that, I mean, it's hard to just forget that and say, oh, everything's fine. Now we're going to start building.

And that goes back to the Harper era, right? Like, we're not even just talking about Trudeau. So there's certain parameters, I guess, in place that were more limiting. And I think that when you see certain people leaving the cabinet because of different environmental protections, maybe being lifted or us pushing forward with certain, you know, I don't want to say constraints. Even I just mean the fact that we see that this is a critical time, we need to be sovereign. These are the kind of critical things that we have to do to move forward.

And even seeing certain bills passing that we wouldn't have saw otherwise, right? Like we just saw within the last 14 weeks. There's 21 bills that were just passed. So that pushes through with this new majority as well. I want to stick with you, Ashley, for this next story. And I saw this headline in the National Post, BC man who murdered wife and son gets below normal sentence due to indigenous heritage. And this started a long time ago where we decided as a nation or our leaders did

that we were over-indexing in terms of federal inmates. in our prisons coming from First Nations, and therefore we were going to give discounts to their sentences because of their heritage and the trauma and on and on and on. But the knock-on effect of that is justice denied to their victims, and the vast majority of victims of indigenous criminals are indigenous women. And so for all the hay that we made to society about missing and murdered indigenous women, what does this say about our strategy?

Yeah, you know, the headline that focused, you know, on the context, so instead of on background, it's it should be on the offender. Yeah. Rather than the suffering of the victims. And so many Canadians feel that the justice system is losing that site as it exists. And I think we just don't want to lose sight of what the actual parameters should be in a case like this and that type of headline, especially this month, there's the moose hide, you know, campaign that you'll see on people's lapel. when it comes to domestic violence, when it comes to reconciliation. So it is top of mind. And so avoiding, you know, the struggles of what the victims are being denied, you know, that justice.

And solely because of race, so instead, I think, you know, sentencing us as Canadians. We want to see policy and that maintaining for public confidence. Yeah. Chris, we've got, it does feel that every single time we have one of these capital cases that's being talked about, it feels like the attention and the focus is on the offender and not on on the victim. Unfortunately, absolutely, right? And I never thought that there was a rule of law but with exemptions. And that unfortunately seems to be what our courts have created in this country.

And I don't think that should exist. I don't think that does anybody, any justice, no pun intended, that I, you know, the point of our laws and the point of our sentencing is to deter people from committing crimes. And if they do, they're held accountable for them. I don't think your race, the color of your skin, your sexual orientation, where you were born, what even challenges you face in your upbringing should determine whether or not you were guilty. And if you were guilty, I think you should face the exact same sentence as your fellow common citizen. Well, Lady Justice is supposed to be blind to those things, but I guess not in Canada.

And look, if we as a society of determined we are over-indexing with First Nations in prison, then give them more economic opportunity, give them more educational opportunity, give them more mentorship opportunities. That's the path to make sure that you have fewer people. It's not to say, okay, we're going to skip to the end and we're going to fast forward and we're going to get to the result we want because when you do that, the equal and opposite reaction, again, is indigenous women and their children are denied justice. And to me, it is such a blatant flaw. It also leads to a lack of trust in the system. If we feel that it's not, if we feel that justice isn't being administered, then it might as well not be administered. It's the, because what is it? The medium is the message.

And the appearance of propriety is as important as propriety itself. Okay, guys, don't go anywhere and Ash, I'm going to start with you when we come back because summer break is upon us. Kids are off and so is the House of Commons. So just as our kids are getting their report cards, so too will we be giving your report card to our Prime Minister, Mark Carney. I think it's only fair and we're trying to be fair about it too. So if he deserves credit, we'll give him extra credit and if he deserves a failing grade, we're going to do that too. Don't go anywhere.

This is the Ben Mulroney show. Well, school is out for the summer and so too is the House of Commons and we thought, what better opportunity to judge our prime minister than to take a whack at giving him a report card?

And guys, I want to set the rules if there is credit to be given. We put the partisanship aside and we give him credit. If there's criticism to be made, even if we like the guy, we don't spin it. We just say that he can do better. We got him for another three years at least. So it's not about, it's not about canceling the guy. It's about giving him tips to improve, just like they do with the kids these days. Because no kid really fails at school anymore. They're just, we just move them to the next grade anyway. And here are the four, the four classes. We've got

the PM on the world stage. The PM is a parliamentarian. The PM as a communicator, and promises made, promises kept. So let's start, Ashley, you're first. Give him a grade for being a PM on the world stage. I'd give him an A because he's really strong right now, especially coming out of the GSM performance. His international credibility is there. So that would be mine.

I'm curious to see what Chris has. Okay, he gets a great. So he gets an A. And yes, I agree. He's been there's on the world stage. he's emerging in short order as a, as a respected, trusted person, especially at these multilateral events, Chris. Yeah, listen, I'll put my partisan lens aside.

And maybe it's just because of like the F that the previous prime minister was in my books on the world stage. I think he does get at least a B plus or an A, you know, between the headlines he made around the world with his Davos speech, you know, the credibility he at least commands at the G7s and G7s. 20s he attends. And the respect, I think he's brought back to us on the world stage. I don't think it's lost on anybody, the bit of a joke we became under Trouple.

I agree with both of you. I'm going to have to give him a B plus. I can't go all the way into A territory because he's been very late on certain assignments. In fact, there's one he hasn't brought in yet. He hasn't handed in yet. And that's what are we doing with the Americans? We were told we were going to have the assignment handed in. Has it been handed in.

So for that reason, I'm giving him a B plus. I think that's fair. Let's move on to the PM as a parliamentarian. I don't know, Ashley, that you can be as effusive because honestly, his attendance, his attendance alone, you got to dock him a couple of points. Yeah, that one's been a little iffy. So I'm going to go with a B just because he is adjusting, I feel, that there's that technocrat, that he's becoming that politician. And so he hasn't really faced too much, I guess, within the question period since. So there has to be that sustained parliamentary pressure that has to happen.

And maybe we'll see more of that in September because he's done such a great job traveling, making those packs around the world that we need that, right? So what did you give them? You gave him a B? I gave him a B. I think you're grading. I think you're being a little too generous there, Ashley. Chris, what do you think?

Well, you didn't give me the category I was hoping you were going to give us. No, everyone gets, everyone's giving them a great. Just as no, just as a sheer politician. So I'm going to use the parliamentarian one. Yeah. I'm going to give him an A here because if you had it told me, Ben. Sorry, hold on a second. I've gone blind.

I've gone blind. You had a told me. If you had told me that this man would have put together a caucus to give himself a majority that included Marilyn Gladu. Yeah. You know, he has been more ruthless as. a politician, and I will give that, you know, his ability to build out a caucus in the House of Commons. I didn't have that on my bingo card, Ben. I didn't have the Marilynne Glu

corner. I don't know what number under like L that falls under on the far right of a bingo sheet, but she certainly started there. You know what? I had not considered that part, the sort of, and I don't mean this poorly. I mean, the, the, the aggressive, uh, ability to create a majority that did not exist. Look, if your job is to, is to enact your vision and you're willing to do those things, uh, then he, yeah, I think he's got to get credit for that. I, I don't, I won't go so far. That, that's one part of his grade.

So I'll give him an A on that. Um, I'll have, I have to give him a C minus on attendance, uh, especially this week. and I heard somebody say, I believe it, I believe it was on the CBC, where they all sort of said, you can't go around the world preaching respect in institutions and then not show up in the one institution

that is designed to hold you to account. That is the mechanism by which we hold our prime minister to account, attendance in the House of Commons. He has missed question period 100 times, which is a mind-blowing number. and so I have to give him a C minus on that. So I'm going to give him a B minus. I was thinking it was going to be lower,

but if I'm taking the partisanship out of it, I'd have to give him credit for what he did to enact his vision. It's not my vision, but I have to give him credit for that. So I think that's fair as well. Let's move on to the prime minister as a communicator. This one's going to be interesting. Ashley.

Yeah, I would give him an A. I think that's where he's really connecting. That is for you, Ashley. No. Well, I think he's really connecting with Canadians. And we see that with the floor crossing, right? Like if he wasn't a good communicator, he wouldn't have gotten the majority. So it kind of falls in line with what Chris was saying with the other grade.

But I also feel that he's really great about delivering that kind of nostalgia to the Canadian public, whether he's using Mike Myers, where, you know, when it's a leadership race or he's at FIFA and he knows he's on the world stage. and he's able to deliver certain, you know, notes to the general public that don't seem so as a politician to have that cap on at all times. Okay. Listen, everyone's entitled to their own grades. You are his homeroom teacher. Chris, your thoughts. PM as a communicator.

I mean, he, I don't know if I can ever recall a PM, Ben, who's so all over the place when it comes to his communication skills. there's days where I think he's a D or like, you know, the classic needs improvement. And then there's times where he can spin off a speech like Davos when he gets into the technocrat side that I think he can be strong. You know, the speech I thought he delivered in the locker room last night after Canada's big win. I thought was something that, you know, I was surprised he could deliver. It was, you know, it was succinct. It was compassionate. It was thoughtful.

It was caring. It was inspiring. I don't know, like a C plus B minus. Yeah. Look, when you say all over the place, I agree. You know, he's, he can be, he can be, he can be, he can be, he can be, he can be, he can be snippy with journalists. Yeah. Are we in a technical recession?

He literally walked away from a journalist. He got caught in front of a microphone saying it's good to be home when he was in Europe. That's not, that's not a good look. But everything you just said about the positives as well, there is something reassuring in his, in his measured tone that he's able to give. comfort to people. Yeah, it's, you know what? It feels like, it feels like some days he gets his mom to do his homework. And other days he gets his dad to do his homework. And other days he gets his friends or chat GPT. I'm kidding. No, you're right. It's, it's scatter shot. So I think, I think I'll go, I'll go with a B minus. I think I'll go with a B minus. Oh, we don't have a lot

of time left. We have the last one. So let's go real quick. Promises made, promises kept, Ashley. I think that's to be seen, like a TBA. Like, because we, I think we're going to see more of that in the full set. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Incomplete. Didn't submit his homework.

Didn't submit his homework. And let's be honest, he did work that was not assigned. Like there's a whole bunch of stuff that he did that was never on the agenda, that was never voted on, that was never debated, that was never on the campaign trail. It was never a promise he made before getting elected. So that is it, that is an incomplete. We'll have to see. Guys, this is a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

and we'll talk to you soon. Since the dawn of time, humanity has been at war. It has shaped the world around us. And if it somehow feels like we've been here before, it's because we have. I'm David Boris. I'm a military historian. And on my new podcast, Hostile History, I take us inside history's most defining wars and rebellions.

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