The Ben Mulroney Show - Full Coverage of Justin Trudeau's resignation Part 1

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Guests and Topics on Today's Show -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Greg Brady, Host of Toronto Today -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Celina Caesar-Chavannes Former Liberal MP and Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Mackenzie Gray, National Reporter with Global National & Global News covering Parliament Hill -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Robert Fife, Globe and Mail's Ottawa Bureau Chief -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters, Founder of Chatter AI If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Maybe, but definitely 100% closer to getting 1% cash back with TD Direct Investing. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31st, 2025. Visit td.com slash DI Offer to learn more. Happy Monday, Canada. Thank you so much for joining us on the Ben Mulrooney Show. And if this is the first voice you're hearing this morning in the news then allow me to be the first to give you the news that at 10 45 today Prime Minister Justin Trudeau

is set to resign as liberal leader. Word is he will do so at his residence at Rideau College, a cottage in Ottawa. That was famously the place where we saw him speak almost daily during the COVID pandemic. He would step outside his front door to a podium and give us the daily updates as to what was going on with the pandemic and Canada's response. So perhaps he will take to that same podium to announce that after nine years in government, he is stepping down.

And so all day today on the Ben Mulroney show, we are going to be looking back as well as looking forward, looking back at how we got to where we are and what the next few days, weeks and months could possibly look at. We've got an incredible group of experts to drill down. We're gonna be asking some really interesting questions, looking at some unique hypotheses and scenarios

so that we can be prepared for whatever's coming. And frankly, after the past three weeks, I would not have been able to predict everything since Christia Freeland dropped the hammer on Justin and really messed with his best laid plans. So let's look back just a little bit at the last few months and how we got here. You'll remember that on September 4th, which was also the anniversary of my dad winning the largest majority in the history of Canadian politics, just sidebar for you. On September 4th, Jagmeet Singh of the NDP rips up his agreement with Justin Trudeau, his supply and confidence

agreement that he signed back in 2022. This is a quote from him. The fact is the liberals are too weak, too selfish and too beholden to corporate interest to fight for people, Singh said in a video address to Canadians on Wednesday. They cannot stop the conservatives, but we can. And the press release that went along with this ripping up of the agreement stated, quote, the end of the supply and confidence agreement does not automatically send voters to the polls. A majority of parliamentarians voting against the government on a confidence measure does. Singh said the NDP is ready for an election and voting non-confidence will be on the table with each and every confidence measure. And you may or may not remember that since ripping up that document, Sing and his NDP have voted not once, not twice, but eight times on confidence matters with the

government, keeping them propped up to the point that we find ourselves here today. That was September 20th, September 4th. In October, seeing the writing on the wall, 24 liberal MPs sign a letter asking Justin Trudeau to resign. On December 16th, that was the day that changed it all. That was when Christia Freeland resigned. Now, you'll remember, she knew full well that in the fall economic update, the liberals were gonna blow past their quote unquote,

guard rails of their modest budget, their modest deficit, I believe a $40 billion. And she was going to have to tell everybody that was over 60 billion. And that was due to a number of factors. It's blatant fiscal mismanagement by the liberals over the course of years. But also that little vote buying exercise where they were gonna give everybody a $250 check and the GST holiday and all that nonsense. And he was gonna ask her to own that

before shuffling her to a less prominent position in cabinet and bringing Mark Carney in to take her position. He wanted her to jump on the grenade. And then he was going to say thank you but no thank you and bring in his his buddy, who is then going to usher in, I don't know, a new era for this liberal party. Well, she was having none of it and resigned. And that caused this chain reaction that we're seeing now. And what's this chain reaction that we're seeing now. Then what's the chain reaction? On December 20th, there was a cabinet shuffle

because he needed a new finance minister and nobody wanted the job. Jagmeet Singh that same day said he would vote non-confidence. But when? I don't know. But based on the dates that were being thrown around, it does fall after his pension kicks in. On December 21st, the Ontario Liberal Caucus calls for his resignation. On December 26th, Justin Trudeau heads west for a vacation. You remember, he also famously and in an unprecedented fashion canceled all of his end of year interviews. Paul Wells, the great political pundit said that in his 30 years of covering Ottawa, he has never seen that happen. Those, those interviews

that where a prime minister sits down with CBC and global and CTV and Radio Canada and, and Globe and Mail, you name it, just to get his get his end of year thoughts out there. Nope. Nothing. What have we heard from the prime minister since then crickets crickets? Except when a woman approached him during his vacation to tell him, Oh, do we have that? Let's remind people. Mr. Prime Minister, please get the f*** out of BC. Have a wonderful day, ma'am.

Yeah, you suck. Yeah, that's the only time we've heard his voice. Only time. No, that's not true. We also heard him at a liberal party, a Christmas party, and we heard him at a liberal fundraiser. So really speaking to the people of the country. And then it just went from worse to worse because then on the 29th, the Atlantic liberal caucus calls for his resignation. And then on January 1st, the Quebec liberal caucus calls on his resignation, not the same way that we were told that there is a consensus within that caucus that it's time for him to go. He came home on January 4th. And then we just expected he, at some point, that he would announce that he was resigning. And now it looks like the cake is baked.

And we're gonna pull it out of the oven at 10.45 this morning. This is the first time Justin will speak publicly since the Christia Freeland debacle. You'll remember he came out of a caucus meeting saying it was a very productive meeting. That's it, we haven't heard anything. It's a complete absence of leadership from our government.

And so we're going to be talking about this from all angles today. Because I don't know where, like what just how Justin Trudeau thinks he can make this better, even if he resigns. The assumption is he will prorogue parliament. Nothing really gets done while the liberals are sorting out their own internal machinations and mess. And we as voters, while we watch Donald Trump assume power in Washington, if you take him at his word, on day one, by executive order, he's going to slap 25% tariffs on every single good that crosses the border from Canada to the United States. What's going to be, what's our response going to be? Well, nothing really, because the most senior

people in that party, the Dominique LeBlancs, the Christian Freelans, the ones with the institutional relationships, well, they're not gonna have their eye on the ball. They're gonna be focused on, can I become leader? They're gonna be pulled in two different directions. And so a lot of people are wondering if Justin Leaves is their hope for the liberal brand. Obviously at some point there is. Obviously at some point there is. Obviously at some point there is.

And we're gonna drill down into that over the course of the morning. Coming up, my great friend and colleague, Greg Brady joins me to talk about this very issue. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. And by the time this show ends,

by all accounts, it looks like Justin Trudeau will have announced his resignation as a liberal leader. I'm joined now by my good friend and the host of Toronto This Morning. Toronto This Morning? Toronto Today, pal. Toronto Today, I don't know. Toronto Today.

There's so many names. There really are. There's only one, but that's okay. Gregory Brady. Mr. Brady, welcome back. Thank you so much for being here. Hey, so here's the question I posed to you and also to our listeners.

There are some people optimistic about the liberals making this switch and some painted Freeland as a hero when all this happened. You hear from the audience, are those people who are optimistic, bullish on the future of the liberal brand, are they underestimating how angry the public is with this?

We're not just with Trudeau, but with the people who enabled him and facilitated his agenda to be shepherded forward. It's a great question. It came up on Think Tank this morning. How many people are ultimately optimistic and see an incoming Poliev government as, in essence, swooping in Superman, Cape and

saving the day and how many people are just I don't care who it is I'd vote for an inanimate carbon rod right now as long as I get rid of Justin Trudeau clearly the electorate feels differently than they did in 2021 yeah I mean he didn't fluke those wins but not much changed and I think it's more 60-40, we just have to get rid of this guy. And the fact you documented it too, you're hearing all these caucuses say the same thing. I heard in the summer when they lost Toronto St. Paul's,

when they lost that fortress of a riding in June, that Trudeau almost begged and pleaded and said, give me six more months before you start writing letters and get a campaign going. I know how this works. And he does give me till the know how this works and he does, give me till the end of the year and he couldn't turn anything around.

In fact, it probably made it worse. Well, we wanna hear from you, our listeners at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. The text line is also open, 870-6400. And that's, are you mad at Trudeau? If you're mad, if you do not like this government, if you're looking for a change in government, question i'm asking our listeners is are you is your anger focused on Justin Trudeau or on his government or on his party or on all three and would a change at the top make you

reconsider where your vote is going to land i contend that no no change will change the outcome of this election. Yes, Pierre might win, you know, that you could swing 20 seats one way or the other. But this is a toxic level of anger, the likes of which I've never seen. Ben, you've seen the some of the projections even for Ontario. They're running at about 81, 82 Ontario liberal, meaning federal liberal seats right now. There are some polls that have them at six. There's some holes that had them in single digits. There was one poll, I think the Gallup poll came out to two

and you're like, where are these two seats? Is one in Ottawa and one in downtown Toronto? Because it ain't in the suburbs where I live. It's not down the 401 in Kitchener in London. That's all going either blue or staying yellow, gray, whatever the NDP is. None of them will be liberal seats, even if they didn't change the leadership. I think it's a minor change at best.

Maybe it saves eight or 10 seats. They couldn't do worse. So anybody who's saying it's going to be the same level of bad, you're wrong. And that's why he's right to quit. I do think that they can do worse. And I'll tell you why after we talk to Rob. Hey, Rob, welcome to the show. Rob, you there? I'm here. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Rob. All right. What do you, what do you think of this conversation we're having? Well, I'll tell you first and foremost, I am upset with Trudeau directly. I think he over the last five years, especially has run his own agenda, sort only his needs and his objectives, but equally mad at the Liberal Party for enabling him because they saw a route to maintaining power. And you know, they're all going to be, you know, what they get now is fully deserved for all parties. Well, Rob, let me ask you this, and I'll bring Greg into this as well, because here's the scenario as I see it. If they're polling nationally, according to Angus Reed, at about 16% right now, we as a country gave them a minority mandate, which meant we should have had the right to pull

the plug on this government whenever we wanted. And we've seen enough scandals build up that any one of those could have felled this government. So how do you feel, Rob, that we could see after 1045 this morning, when Justin Trudeau announces his resignation, that we're all going to have to sit and park ourselves and wait for them to get their house in order before we finally have the right to do what we want? Do you think that that could make turn people off even further from this party? I hope it does. I hope it does. I hope it turns people off and turns them on to the thought that something needs to change fundamentally in the system.

Yeah. Right? Like you can't have a political system like this that allows for this to go on and this, this what is initially a foul odor becomes an unbearable stench, right? Like in any other, in any other industry and business, you fix those problems before they become disasters. Yeah. And why at the highest level of, of managing our country, are we unable as, as voting citizens to be able to impact that in any meaningful way? Right? Like the majority of the country was through with this guy, uh, before COVID. Yeah. You know, and then, and COVID just made it exponentially worse.

Hey, Rob, I'm gonna have to leave it there with you. Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate the call. Greg, before we take some more calls, what do you think? I don't think they've hit their floor. If we have to sit here and watch them pick a new leader before we as voters have the right to pick a new government,

that's party, that's the definition of party over country. I don't, I think this is the floor right now. I think they can only go up, but it's only gonna go up ever so slightly, no matter who they pick. Now, admittedly, you can make a really bad choice here, as they made a couple of them in those Paul Martin post years.

You'd look, you know, they say, you know, somebody after like 10 seconds, or you sit down and for speed dating, and you know, within a minute, or you sit down and for speed dating and you know within a minute whether you Want to even continue the conversation when I watched when I when we first met through the public or through the media Stefan The odd and Michael Ignatius. I'm like, yeah, these guys can't do it Yeah, like like these are really the best choices you have and that was wrong So listen Trudeau was the absolute right choice in 2015 because he won and he got results

Hey, let's say let let's say hi to Jerry. Jerry, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Hi, Ben. Thanks for having me on. And so, so are you mad at Trudeau or the liberal party or both? I am mad at both and I want an election like yesterday. See, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

I, I, Jerry, I'm not trying to cut you off. We're going to keep talking, But I think a lot of people are like Jerry and forcing us to wait behind the Liberal Party to get their ship in order is only going to make a guy like Jerry more angry. Did I just put words in your mouth, Jerry? Oh, yes, absolutely. I'm like, I'll give you a just tell you, my parents are Trudeau senior fans because they came here as immigrants

when he was prime minister. And my father is so disgusted. They came here from Africa and they're like, they're just disgusted at what this country has become. And even now when people call my dad, who's in his seventies now to say, hey, should we immigrate to Canada? He's like, no, no, absolutely not.

This is not a place of opportunity. It's not the country that he came here and built a business and had six children, you know, in this country. Like, it's not the way, you know, it's true. Like, I am poorer than my father was when I was his age. And it's shameful. Yeah, it's the breaking of the Canadian promise.

Jerry, thank you so much for your call. I appreciate it. Let's say hi to Emily. Emily, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show with Ben and Greg. Hi, good morning. Good morning. Morning. I just wanna share that I'm very, very angry

with the liberals and Justin Trudeau especially. I am a conservative, but I do, you know, I am accepting of liberal things but immigration what they've done to it over the last year they've killed it completely we had the best system in the world to give people opportunities to come here and to thrive and for families to reunite and over the weekend the hammer came down on super visas for grandparents and parents. That's right I remember that. They did it because of their lack of I don't know I don't know why I don't understand it we have the best system in the world to give everybody the

opportunity to come here and and they just completely because now it's going to be a focus right now everyone everyone will know about our our system and it needs right so it's just that and i don't know how to get back Emily thank you very much and i hope you have a great week yeah see Greg you can hear it you can hear the anger the frustration and and and there's there's a toxic there's a toxicity to that anger that I've never seen before. Quick story, like we're, our family's doing okay, but we have talked, you know, my oldest son was born in Michigan. We've already talked, he's 18, about to turn 19.

And we've already said in four years from now, how quickly can we get the engine going to see if he can live and buy a home in the States? And when he's 30, no one's buying a home at 24 or 25. But how do we sort of plant those seeds to have one of our own? And we love Ontario, we love it here. And we're like, for that principle alone,

we got some problems on our hands that aren't gonna be easily fixable no matter who the government is in the first year, year and a half or so. There's a lot of work to be done. Oh, it's gonna get worse before it gets better. Greg Brady, thank you so much for joining. Anytime.

We really appreciate it. And to those people waiting on the line, we're gonna get your calls on the other side of the break. Don't go anywhere. I'm Ben Mulroney and this is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for joining us at 1045 am Eastern. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Canada's 23rd Prime Minister, is set to

resign as a Liberal leader. He's going to be giving a press conference outside of Rideau Cottage, where he is expected to resign. He's going to take some questions and answers as well. We will be taking that entire press conference live for you to experience, enjoy, whatever floats your boat. And look, we are ready for that. That is the most likely scenario when he steps in front of those microphones. We haven't heard him speak in three weeks,

so we don't know what he's gonna say. And this clown show that we have been suffering through for the last three and a half weeks makes this a very unpredictable scenario. We are prepared for all scenarios, including something that might sound a little bit like this. I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving.

I'm not leaving. Yeah. Who knows? Like honestly, who knows? And if he stays, how angry are people gonna be? Let's take to the phone lines and let's invite Rob onto the show. Rob, what would you do if he stuck around?

Oh dude, I'm losing my mind as it is. I want him to stick around. I want him and every currently sitting liberal MP to stick around. I want them to call an election since they keep saying that they're doing what Canadians want. I want them to sit there and get fired not walk away not smile and say I'm taking

a walk in the snow like me funny none of that crap where's Greg Brady I was too bad he left before I got a chance to tell him this and stuff that directly I mean is he out of his mind like so what if Justin Trudeau leaves that entire party is rotten from the roots up. Plain and simple. They all need to go. They're all aiding and abetting known terrorists in the country. They're harbouring traitors, people that are under the influence of China. Like, come on! When does the madness stop, dude? When? Yeah, well, not until the liberal voters get their say on who their next leader is going to be.

That's, I think, the most likely outcome. Perogating parliament, they have a leadership race. And then, and only then will Canadians finally be able to exercise their democratic right to hold this liberal government to account. And it's that delay that tells me that we have not seen the floor for the liberal support in polling across this country. Thank you for the call. And let's welcome Max to the Ben Mulroney show. Ben, what will you talk about when this is all behind us?

I don't know, man. You're sharpening your vessels, man. Figure out some material because I feel it's all we talk about. And thank God we do. If the liberal party, let me make a correction. If Canada God we do. If the Liberal Party, let me make a correction, if Canada does not correct course and, you know, now I think the charges are there, the evidence is there to convict Justin Trudeau on many misgivings. If we as a country do not seize this opportunity, there's zero reason to believe that the Liberal Party isn't going to spin and obfuscate and rebrand itself in eight years and be back to this BS again. If we count ourselves as one of the leading democracies on the planet, we need to seize

who we are, seize our right to Canadians, and punish those who misgive and and and cause harm to the country. If you or I engage in any kind of these activities, baby. Yeah. The strong case that we would go to jail. Well, and look, yeah. And Max, you make a good point like the expression, you get the government you deserve, right? Like if we voted, we voted them in, so it's our, you know, we've got to own that. We as the voting public in 2015 got to own that. But then we sort of learned our lesson and gave them a minority government.

And that lasted for two years until he pulled the plug, thinking he could get a better deal out of us. But the Canadian voters went back and again gave him a minority. So that's why I think this anger is so different than at other times in our history. Because if you believe that you get the government you deserve, we deserved a minority government. That's what we voted for and yet Justin Trudeau says with pride that he is currently the leader of the longest-serving minority government in Canadian history. And he says that as if it's some sort of proof that he's doing

the right thing when in point of fact he found a maneuver to hold on to power and govern as if he had a majority, even though the people told him that they didn't want him to have unchecked power. That's why people are so angry. At least, that's my opinion. Let's check in with Sam. Sam, am I off base here? Hi, Ben. Love your show and all the hosts. Okay, there are the proverbial coffins, the Trudeau coffins. There has many, many, many nails in it. But at the head of that coffin is a massive spike and it's called carbon tax. At the bottom of that coffin, there's another one and that's immigration and the lack of housing cause.

I am in Florida right now for four months in Fort Myers. I took 20,000 US, it cost me almost 30,000 Canadian. I filled my tank yesterday for $36 US, it cost me almost 90 in Canada. This is a tragedy. Our country has everything you could want to make it the greatest country in the world. And nine years of this guy has killed us. Anyway, thanks. I'll get off the line. Thank you, Sam. I appreciate it. And I do have to wonder, and we are going to be exploring that over the course of the day. What happens if somebody presents themselves as an alternative to Justin Trudeau's leadership in the leadership race and says,

we have made a number of mistakes as a party, which is why we are where we are, elect me and I will cancel the carbon tax. What happens then? I think that makes people even more angry at this Liberal Party. I do not see a scenario where they come out of this with even a significant bump in the polls, even with a new leader, with new policies coming into an election. I do not see it happening. Hey, Liz, welcome to the show.

Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. So what's your take on this? My continuous burn Why isn't Katie Telford walking the plank? Why isn't the PMO? Why aren't we demanding their heads the PMO runs the show in Canada? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think what's gonna happen Liz is is when Pierre Poliev ultimately takes over and opens up the books and he can see the true damage that's been done to our public finances, I think there will be investigations

because I think it's going to be even worse than we believe it to be right now. I think I think they've been playing fast and loose with numbers and what they've presented to the public is the best version that they could come up with. And I think it's only going to get, I think it's going to get so bad that people will demand to know where the money went. And the Tories will be in power and they'll, I don't know, I don't know by what means and what vehicle,

but I think the sunlight is the best disinfectant is going to be a policy that they live by. And they're going to try to bring as much sunlight to the opacity that we have enjoyed or have been suffering through rather for the past nine years as possible. I think we've got time for one more call. Let's say hi to Dan. Dan, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Hi, good morning. I want to go out more than the next guy. I warned everyone when Harper and he were going to the election in 2015 that this guy was going to be a disaster and this is a case I didn't want it to be, I told you so, but that's the scenario. But I do, but having seen what the electorate does twice,

two more times, I do think that if they switch out leaders and someone like Freeland comes in, other than the 640 listeners, like people who listen to your show are a little bit more savvy and they know what's going on and they pay attention to the details. But the vast majority of the population is partisan, they vote by party.

There's a lot of women out there, they're misinformed. They've been, again, one of the reasons I hate Trudeau is you're so divisive labeling the conservatives as anti-abortion and anti-this and anti-that. They think that they believe that stuff. They believe that nonsense. So there's a, and they don't follow the scandals. They don't know what's going on with Bill C-63.

They just, and a lot of them ascribe to the whole woke nonsense out there. So you know, let's not let's not think that they can't turn this around. Oh, no, yeah. Listen, I concur. I think the liberal brand is resilient and robust. And the and the Liberal Party is about as opportunistic as you will find in the political world in the in the Western political world, in the Western political world.

They are prepared to do and say what they need to do and say to keep or obtain a power. So don't count them out. Certainly count them out in this election. But beyond that, I'm not willing to bet against them necessarily. All right. We're going to keep taking your calls after the break. Justin Trudeau, 1045 is set to speak. We're going to carry

that live. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show at 10 45 Eastern. The prime minister is set to give a press conference where it is expected that he will resign as leader of the liberal party. And we, a lot of people have been trying to predict when and if this was going to happen about a month ago, or rather last month, on the Greg Brady show, he had a guest who predicted this, I always get these wrong. I was I always get these predictions wrong. But I am going to say, again, I'm going to put my faith

in the humanity of someone who gives me very little faith and say that come January, he is going to step down. Well, look at that. Nostradamus right there in our midst. Let's welcome said prognosticator, Selena Cesar Chavanne, former liberal MP and parliamentary secretary to the prime minister to the show. How are you doing this Monday morning? I am doing great, Ben.

How are you? I'm well. Happy New Year. A happy new year. And what this is, this day is gonna lead to a very interesting next few weeks and few months. Selena, the conversation I've been having all morning is, you know, where is the anger directed?

Is it directed towards the Prime Minister or to the government or specifically towards the Liberal Party? So I wanna take it back to when you decide to put your name forward. Is it directed at towards the prime minister or to the government or specifically towards the Liberal Party? So I want to take it back to when you decide to put your name forward for elected office. What were you? Did you want to join the Liberal Party? Did you want to join Justin's Liberal Party?

What was it that appealed to you? Yeah, great question. It was Justin's Liberal Party. So I joined the Liberal Party not knowing who their leader was going to be. They had 35 members in their caucus at the time. And then there was this renewed sense of hope. You know, there's this Trudeau wave, this thing that was going to happen that was going to really be great for Canadians. And it was inspiring to be a part of that situation. When I lost the by-election, I immediately said,

yes, I am going to run in the general election because I knew that there was a new renewed hope in Canada for that government. So when he resigns, what impact is that going to have on the polling numbers of this party and of this government? I know you're not a pollster, but just what's your sense? Yeah, I you know what the polling numbers are one thing I think that they they might start to bump up but it depends on the

leader that they pick. Yeah, Ben, you know that there's a lot of moving parts here, especially what happens on January when we wake up on January 21. There's a lot of moving parts here, especially what happens on on January when we wake up on January 21. There's a lot of moving parts and the liberals need to be really strategic if they want to win the next election if they actually think that they have the platform that will win the next election, number one and to contest or to benefit what is going to happen with a new Trump administration.

Yeah, so does the next leader have to be from someone from outside of this government? I mean, I keep I keep thinking Christy Clark, she she doesn't have to own the carbon tax. She doesn't have to own the failures in immigration. She doesn't have to own the issues at the border. She could bring her own brand occurred a new version of what it means to be the Liberal Party. Well, you know what, I I'm not going to say or predict who I did one prediction that came out. So you want to end on top. This is what Trudeau should have done.

But you know what they need to be very strategic about like anybody could throw their hat in. Look, I ran for mayor of Toronto. We had a dog running. Anybody could run. I think people need to be really strategic about who puts their name forward in this particular race because the eyes of the world will be watching what the liberals do next over the next week's months. They're gonna be watching. And especially the person that's gonna be watching the most is the incoming president of the United States.

They're gonna be watching what fan dangled thing happens here. and hopefully it makes a lot of sense because Pierre is in the wings and he's ready to pounce. He's ready, he's well funded and his caucus is disciplined. You know, with the exception of his, him using about Bitcoin a few years ago. I haven't seen him have to explain a single thing that's come out of his mouth or somebody in his caucus in two years. So he keeps it simple.

He keeps it simple. He is ready. He is chomping at the bit. He is the one who is setting the narrative. And so meanwhile, Selena, I'm just trying to figure out how they get a bump in the polls through all of this. You've got an incoming prime president. You're going to have parliament probably prorogued

while the liberal party goes through their own internal struggles and depriving voters from having the right to hold the government to account. And while every eye should be on the prize of making sure those tariffs don't come into effect, you're gonna have people probably like Dominique LeBlanc, probably Christia Freeland,

like the relative adults in the room are gonna have their attention split between running the government and trying to become leader. This is not a good look. It's not a good look. And I'm just gonna correct you there. Christia Freeland cannot put her name in the running. Like, I mean, I think the tweet from Trump already disqualified her.

So if she does, it will be very amusing to watch that. But I do think that you're absolutely right. We are going to and again, I'm going to go back to what I said last month. In a time of very precarious fiscal challenges for a lot of Canadians, you now have a government, a federal government that is multiply split, not just with

policy, but now on an election and trying to fend off a new Trump administration. For Canadians, this is not the news that we wanted. Trudeau should have done this a long time ago.

And you said where is the anger directed? I think we shouldn't be even For Canadians, this is not the news that we wanted. Trudeau should have done this a long time ago. And you said, where's the anger directed? I think we shouldn't be even thinking about anger. We need to think about energy. Where's the energy going to go that is going to make this as clean as possible so that Canadians are not feeling the brunt of the burden when those tariffs come in, or if those tariffs come in,

and what that looks like. We need to have someone in the helm very quickly in a liberal seat or a liberal leadership that is going to be able to hold onto these reins to if they actually want to stave off Pierre Polymer and win the next election. Selina, why don't you run? You're not tarnished by this stuff.

You're associated with the liberal by this stuff. You, you you're associated with the liberal brand in, in, in a different way. Why, why don't you run? Oh, you're asking the absolute right question there. Uh, yeah. So Ryan Turnbull look out because I don't, I've, I've said it before. I would run again if there was a change, um, with the leadership. No, I'm saying you run for leader. Oh gosh, you know what?

Again, you have to be really smart about this. You're running against someone like a Trump who is very sort of, you just have to be smart about who you're gonna put in that seat. And it's not to say that you're afraid of that person, but you have to be strategic when dealing with someone who you know, it just doesn't play by their general rules. So again, you know, running for leadership,

anybody can put their name in the hat. I won't be that's absolutely true. I don't think Christian should either. But it has the liberals have to be smart here if they want to win the next election. Well, Selena, I'm so glad to have spoken to you this morning. I'm sure you will be paying attention to the words coming out of the prime minister's mouth very, very carefully. And we hope you join us back on the Ben Mulroney Show soon to break down wherever we are on the road

to a new liberal leader. For sure. Thank you so much, Ben. Thank you. And just a reminder, 1045 am Eastern, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will speak and we are going to be carrying it live. On the other side of this break, we are going to continue this conversation with people who know far more about the inner workings of Ottawa than I, Robert Fife of the Globe and Mail, as well as Mackenzie Gray, National Reporter

for Global National and Global News covering a Parliament Hill. It's a very exciting day to be doing live radio. I'm very pleased to be with you today. I'm Ben Mulroney, and you're listening to the Ben Mulroney show. To drill down and get a few more details as to what exactly is going on and what led to this moment. Let's welcome Mackenzie Gray, global news national reporter covering parliament hill to the show. Mackenzie, great to talk to you. Hi, Ben. How you doing? Well, I'm well, I'd love for our our listeners to know what you know, because right now all we know is there's a press conference happening. What do

you know that we don't know? The Prime Minister is expected to announce his resignation. And he will very likely be staying on or announce his intention to stay on as the leader. Through time the search takes place for a new liberal leader to be brought in and watch for to have met with mary simon and for parliament to be parodied likely sometime into march and that is will give the political party some time to have a leadership race and bring a new leader in with prorogation means that there'll be a throne speech that is a confidence vote so the government can fall potentially as early as sometime in march and then we could be in an election sometime in the

spring. You know, Mr. Trudeau has consistently said then that he thought he was the best leader to lead the Liberal Party into the fight against pure polity in the next election, but you can't be a leader if you've got no one to lead. And the caucus has been very clear over the past kind of three weeks for Mr. Trudeau didn't say anything post-Christian Freeland resignation. The caucus made it clear to him through many letters that they sent him that there was a clear majority of members who did not want Mr. Trudeau to stay on. There's a caucus meeting that's going to be taking place on Wednesday.

If he had not signaled his intentions to leave as liberal leader. I think what is obviously a bad situation with his resignation coming in about 40 minutes would have been even worse for him politically, potentially seeing cabinet ministers and after Black Ventures leaving the party completely. And that was going to be my next question. Do you think this was a slow realization that he came to over the course of his vacation? Or was there a moment where he just said, all right, I guess I guess it's time for me to go. I think that moment might have been when Chris, your freelance, you know, stabbed him right in the front, basically quitting

right before the fall economic statement. But, you know, then, you know, we look back on political decisions, and I'm very sure you thought some about your dad, you know, usually it takes many years or months to determine, you know, the impact of decisions that are made by prime ministers. But I think it's pretty clear to say that, you know, just in terms of decision, you're trying to get Krista Freeland to deliver a fall economic statement that was going to be a fiscal disaster for the liberals and then tell her that she was going to be fired

two days before might be one of the worst political moves that the prime minister's made and one of the worst political moves in modern Canadian history. That is what has precipitated this fall and I don't know how Mr. Trudeau could have thought that attempting to have Ms. Freeland deliver that fall economic statement and then fire her two days later, as was the plan that he had outlined to her a few days before the fall economic statement, was going to work out well for him. Now she's positioned herself as a potential leadership candidate. I'd be very surprised if she doesn't run to replace Mr. Trudeau.

Mark Carney is well to the former Venetian Canada, Bank of England governor. We can expect that he'll be in the race too. Tom Michael Blanc, Melanie Jolie, Prince Philip Lee, Champagne, Christy Clark is well to the former BC Premier. So despite the fact that the Liberals look like they're headed to the political wilderness, there certainly will be some big names who would like that job. It's an exclusive group to be the prime minister and whoever gets that job will be the prime minister, even if it's for a short period of time. Mackenzie Gray, we appreciate your time. We know you're going to be very busy, especially at 1045. So Godspeed, my friend.

Thanks, Ben. All right. and from one expert to another, let's say hi to Robert Fife, Globe and Mail's Ottawa Bureau Chief. Bob Kreskin's got nothing on you. You called this a great reporting this morning in the Globe and Mail. So this is not coming as a surprise to you. No, it's not coming as a surprise.

He had, you know, over the holidays, he was talking to a lot of people and very close people have all told him that it's impossible to hang on now. The caucus, he lost the caucus, the Atlantic caucus, the Ontario caucus, the Quebec caucus, those are the where most of the seats are and I think he just realized he had to go. And it's really in a way kind of sad because if he waited a year, if he did it a year ago or 18 months ago, I think he would be remembered differently because he has had some really good accomplishments, whether it's a CPP or daycare for children and the

child tax benefit that he increased. And these are pretty important measures, including pharmacare and dental care. But now he's going to be remembered completely different as the guy who hung on too late and has put his political party in great jeopardy. Well, but Bobby, I think it goes beyond that. I mean, we just heard from Mackenzie that it looks like the government will be prorogued until March. And all of these, all of these stalwarts of this liberal government, the ones who think they have a shot at leadership are going to take, they're going to shoot their shot when they should be focused on the looming

threat of Donald Trump's tariffs. They are going to be, have they're going to have their attention split between the governing chasing leadership and Donald Trump. That's not a good look. No, I think he's going to argue that he is staying on the deal with Donald Trump and the other people who are running for the leadership in a very short leadership race. Will can focus on that. people who are running for the leadership in a very short leadership race, will can focus on that.

The interesting thing for me, Ben, and I don't know what he's going to do, is are they going to require cabinet ministers like Melanesh Ali and Francois Philippe Champagne and the finance minister Dominic LeBlanc who all want to run, will he allow them to stay on and cabinet or will they say they have to leave and run and not have responsibilities? Because you know, when Pierre Trudeau left, he allowed cabinet ministers to run for the leadership and stay as as leader. I think those times have probably changed significantly, but I don't know what's going to happen. Well, right, because one could argue that it's one could argue that that's an undue advantage going into a leadership race. If somebody who's sitting in the back benches wants to run and Mark Carney, the former bank, Canada governor, bank,

Anglo governor, I think he wants to run, they will be at a disadvantage because they don't control the purse strings and they don't control, you know, government announcements and whatnot. So I just don't know how this is going to play out. But I have a sense that he's probably going to say, you know, you can stay on. But we'll see. But how quickly before these names

start officially entering the race? After Justin Trudeau says he's no longer gonna be the leader, how long before these names start piling up? Well, first of all, all of the main leadership candidates have already been organizing. Ever since Christopher Wendell walked out the door, people have been organizing because they know that, you know, Trudeau was a dead man walking. But I

think you're going to wait a little bit. Probably not going to see announcements probably not this week, but very soon.

They have to get themselves ready. Because if it's a short leadership race, which I believe it is, they're going to have to announce very quickly. It could be first

time, first time, first time, first time, first time, leadership race, which I believe it is, they're going to have to announce very, very quickly. I mean, it could be, you know, Thursday or Friday for that matter. How on God's green earth do liberal leadership candidates who have walked in lockstep with this party, with this leader for nine years, How do they separate themselves from that legacy in order to say, I'm going to do things differently? Well, you've got a really good point because again, he waited too long. And that means none of these candidates have been able,

except for Mark Carney and Christie Clark, have been able to, have not been able to have distance between him. They haven't been able to show new kinds of policies to the Canadian electorate to say, look, we're different than Mr. Bigspender, who's wrecked our economy and allowed too many immigrants in,

and all of these cost the housing crisis, et cetera, et cetera. They're all tied to him right now, because nobody's gonna believe that the people sitting around the cabinet table are somehow different somehow believe differently now than they did you know a week ago yeah right um so it'll be it'll be different for carney and for christy clark because they haven't been part of the government and i bet you mark carney's very glad he didn't get sucked into coming into this government as the finance minister and pulled out at the last moment.

Bob Fife, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. We know we're going to be looking forward to your reporting over the next few days. Cheers. All right. More on Justin Trudeau's imminent resignation after the break. That's coming at 1045 Eastern Time. Don't go anywhere.

You're listening to Ben Mulroney on the Ben Mulroney Show across the chorus radio network. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show we are coming at you coast to coast to coast on the chorus radio network and news that will impact everyone from across the country is that at 1045 Eastern this morning, Justin Trudeau is set to announce his departure as a leader of the Liberal Party joining us to discuss is Regan Watts, founder of Fratton Park, Inc. former senior aide to Minister of Finance Jim Flaherty. And in an effort of disclosure, he's also a friend of mine. Regan, welcome to the show. Morning, Ben. Great to be with you.

OK, so we could we could go all the way back to sunny ways in 2015. But let's not do that. We now there's a line in the sand after today. A lot changes. So let's look to the future. What's your first reaction to Justin Trudeau announcing that he is going to step down? Well, I'm delighted that the national nightmare is almost over. And the tyranny is ending. But, you know, above and beyond Trudeau, I think that the fundamental issue facing liberals is that they are offside with their policies with the people of Canada on every single issue

that citizens care about. The government has been told they are irresponsible immigration. They've been told that crime is out of control. They've been told that carbon taxis don't reduce emissions. And they've been told by citizens they're tired of the woke nonsense and that they should stop spending money they don't have. And what is happening, this government continues to plow ahead, whether Trudeau is the prime minister or not, with the same policies that are offside with citizens. And this is not just in Canada, but this dynamic is in place all over the world. So while we will have a change in leader, the big question is whether

we're going to have a change in policies. And therein lies the problem. So while we will have a change in leader, the big question is whether we're going to have a change in policies. And therein lies the problem. There hasn't been enough time, there is not enough time between him making this announcement and whoever takes over from him to create any separation between their personal beliefs and the imprint that they're going to put on the new liberal party moving forward versus everything they voted for over the past nine years? Well, I totally, I totally agree. And the people who should be angriest at Justin Trudeau are loyal Liberal Party members. He's managing the government and his own political fortunes. He has handcuffed that party with no time and no runway to maneuver. We actually need an election. Instead, it looks like we're getting a Liberal leadership. But this is the worst of all scenarios all scenarios for liberals and it's been authored by Trudeau and his chief of staff Katie Telford

They are the authors of Canada's economic and foreign policy record They are the authors of the crime wave that has swept the country including the GTA and they are the reason that he And we as a country are in this mess You know Ben is there one person in the country who doesn't understand why Justin Trudeau hasn't resigned before now? I don't know. But a change in leader is like any new relationship, you know, in new relationships, something new is great for a period of time and there's grand gestures that'll come and sometimes date night is important.

But then the grass still needs to be cut and bills need to be paid and we need to put winter tires on the car. And we don't have anybody right now who's keeping the fundamentals of the country going, competently managing the country. He fired a finance minister to hire a finance minister they hadn't spoken to. So, you know, people want change in policy and in leadership. And liberals are talking about the colors of the drapes in the bedroom when the foundation is cracked. You know, liberals hope they can hire a stager to sell the house and the foundation is cracked. They're insane. I mean, it's like saying look at our new bedroom lights. But sir, have you seen the water in the basement? You know, it's a real problem for them.

Well, Regan, we're also hearing there are reports coming out of Ottawa that the Prime Minister will announce that he will stay on as Prime Minister until the new leader is selected. According to Bob Fife in our previous segment, that's because he wants to be the guy in charge while we deal with the looming threat of Trump tariffs coming on, what is it, the 21st of this month. And okay, but that also means, Regan, that his most senior advisors within that caucus are going to have their time split between running their portfolios, helping deal with Donald Trump and running for leader.

Well, and therein lies, back to my earlier point about why people in the liberal party in the country should be angry at the prime minister because once again he is putting himself first. He is announcing his resignation and giving the party in the country no time and no way to maneuver. You know the people who would be around him, you know looking to the future, every single one of these candidates supports a carbon tax. Every single one of these people who in response to when Canadians say they want sensible immigration reform, are accusing those people of being racist. They've resisted bail reform and other common sense measures and up until recently they've all supported a safe supply of plastic and narcotics. So if we're going to be able to deal with President Trump and 20% terrorists and be adults,

which one of these candidates is going to have the courage to stand up and take a position? Are they going to be able to change a position that the government currently has and do so with credibility? And you know, we'll see with President Trump coming to office in about two weeks, if there's a liberal anywhere in that caucus who's prepared to acknowledge the fundamental breakdown between the Liberal Party and the country. And if they don't, they have no business being the government of Canada, and it's time for an election, which is exactly what we

need rather than the liberal leadership. Reagan, I echo absolutely everything you just said, which is why I sort of am almost forced to be led to the conclusion that Christy Clark is probably the best option for them. She is not tied to this federal liberal government. She is a liberal. She'll be able to come in and say, carbon tax wasn't my idea. bail reform issues weren't my idea. Safe Supply wasn't my idea. I'm coming in and I'm gonna I'm gonna clean house.

Well, look, go back to my earlier question is what is it going to take for a liberal anywhere to show any courage? The by election in St. Paul's that they lost, they were silent. The by election loss in La Salibard, they were they were silent. The by-election loss in La Salade Marge, they were silent. Being at 20% in the polls, they've been silent. What is it going to take, whether it's Christie Clark or any one of these other potential candidates to stand up and talk about the need for change? I said two years ago on television that liberal polling was the equivalent of Chernobyl, and

I apologize, Ben. That's no longer true because at Chernobyl, at least the nuclear not all of the reactors melted down. The liberal state right now is a hundred times worse than that, which would be Hiroshima. I don't know. But Margaret Thatcher, your father's great friend, said we must assess the situation as it is, not as we wish it to be. And so if Christie Clark is positioning herself to run for leader, she

should be assessing the situation as it is and not as she wishes it to be. But I do remain skeptical that there's any candidate who's prepared to change and advocate for change. Yeah. Well, I was just going to one of the questions I'm going to be posing over the course of the day is, do you think we've seen the floor for support for the liberals? Because I, as we're discussing what is going to be the Canada being subjected to the palace intrigue of a party that they reject, all the while, real issues remain, um, un dealt with. I don't think 16% is as low as they can go. All right, look, as I, to my earlier point, when they were 20% or 22%, I likened it to the Chernobyl nuclear

reactor breakdown. This is worse than that. I agree with you that the numbers can go lower. I saw a poll before Christmas that showed something like only 7% of Canadians were really hardcore liberal supporters, which would be unheard of and unprecedented in Canadian history. But remember, this is the Liberal Party of Canada, you know, with members and elected representatives who, you know, have some political skill.

And back to 2004, the last time we had a prime minister step down and a proroguing a parliament and an interim and a leadership was when Jean-Claude Kacquien stepped down and Paul Martin was elected by liberal party leaders. But Martin doesn't get enough credit. He gets a lot of credit for his political organization, but he does not get enough credit for how he pivoted the Liberal Party when he took over. He changed the direction of the party compared to where it was with Cretchen. He had new priorities. He wanted to focus on the United States relationship, defense spending, the new deal for cities,

the climate core, the G20. It was clear enough for Canadians that Paul Martin was gonna be a different PM and have different priorities than Sean Crick Yang. I'm not sure any of the candidates who are in place who are being rumored have that capacity. And so what you'll get is to your question around polling is I believe the liberal floor is much lower. You may see an

interim spike with Trudeau leaving. People may be just happy that he's gone, that you'll see liberal polling numbers elevate and increase. And you may even see them go up again after any leaders elected. I will also remind your listeners, Ben, that Tim Hudak was up 11, 12, 15 points prior to the election of Kathleen Wynne as the Ontario Liberal Premier. And she took him to the woodshed in the subsequent election after she got elected and she won. Well, that's Reagan. That's that's also that speaks to the resilience of the Liberal Party brand, which we're going to get into in our next segment, we're going to see what they can do with this brand, even in the face of electoral defeat.

Reagan, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate the insights. Great to be with you. Thanks, Ben. Yeah. So let's not forget at 10 45 Eastern today, Justin Trudeau is set to address the nation where it is roundly believed that he will resign as a liberal leader, at least announce that he will resign as a liberal leader.

We're going to take that live right here on the Ben Mulroney show across the chorus radio now in just under 15 minutes, it is expected that our Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will address the nation where he will announce that he will be stepping down as liberal leader at some point. The rumor is that he's going to stay on as Prime Minister until a new liberal leader is selected. We will wait and see. We will bring that to you live as well as the question and answer series after the press conference. So that's happening today, but I want to take you back to 1984 where somebody said something that sounds an awful lot like it's happening today. But when they bring Tanya out of the closet, he too is the perfect candidate. He can beat you in the West. Oh, no can't. I'll tell you this Jack, it's going to take more than a cosmetic change at the last minute by the Liberal Party to change the thinking of this country. I don't want to talk

about Mr. Turner or Mr. MacDonald or anyone in particular, but let me tell you this. The damage and the sadness that have been inflicted on the Canadian people by the actions of the Liberal government for the last 15 years are so substantial that it's going to take infinitely more than a cosmetic little change and a little typical Liberal shuffle at the last minute. One of their, as they're called in Quebec, a stunt. You know, one of the great stunts the Liberals are capable of. It's going to take infinitely more than that to change the minds of the Canadian people about a government which has absolutely devastated this country. Well, that was the great voice of the greatest man I've

ever had the opportunity to be around, my father, Brian Mulrooney, as talking about a change in leadership following what many believe to be a disastrous 15 years of the last Trudeau government, saying that it's not going to be enough. And it certainly wasn't over the course of nine years. My dad ended up winning the largest majority in Canadian history, another great majority after that. But this is the Liberal Party of Canada. It is the most successful political party in Western history, Western civilization. No party has ever held power in their country longer than the liberals have held power in Canada. And it would be foolish for anybody to

think that this party is going to disappear forever. Joining us to talk about the resilience, the robustness of that brand and what's what's going on today and how they can improve in the future is Tony Chapman, host of the award winning podcast Chatter That Matters and founder of Chatter AI. Tony, welcome back to the show. Always a pleasure to be with you. So look, the Canadian Conservative Party, Liberal Party, completely different beasts.

Anytime conservatives have an internal squabble, one side takes their toys and they go home. It happens all the time. It's a breaking apart and coming together of a coalition time and time again. On the liberal side, they find a way to live with their internal squabbles. And they pivot from left to right on the political spectrum in the most politically opportunistic way I've ever seen. But right now is a really interesting time.

You've got this robust, resilient brand that is going to have to come face to face with nine years of what many voters believe is incompetence, alienation, scandal, ineptitude. And I got to ask you as somebody who knows more about this, sees the world through that lens, what's gonna win out? The power of the brand or the weight of the scandal?

I think the weight of the scandal and my reason why is I often think of a political band, political brand like a rock band. And the lead singer is that, especially in Canada, you have the infinity for her. And Trudeau came out and captured the spotlight of the world. He could part oceans.

But I would say for the last five or six years, especially the scrutiny about him, and really more than anything else, is because he leapt over the NDP and took this left position. And so he didn't take the Liberal Party where it likes to be in the center. He took it in a completely different place.

And I don't think that changing the lead singer is gonna change our appetite for the Liberal Party right now. I think as a society, we're worried about food on our table, we're worried about housing, unemployment, debt. There's a lot of things that are concerning us as individuals, and I think they're gonna matter more than the fact that I feel more Comfortable having a liberal party in place who's in the center

Versus the concerters that always seem to frighten Canadians because they seem to be more on the fringe does Are the NDP who hitched themselves to the liberal wagon the form of the supply and confidence? Agreement are they tarnished by the liberal brand right now as well? Well, without question, I mean, Jagmeet Singh welded himself to the liberals. He had his hand on the rudder. If he was the one that had brought down parliament, if he was the one that was the reason why Trudeau was

resigning, he would be given a few cards to play. Yeah. But as it stands now, I think he's cemented with Trudeau. I think the conservatives would love him to run in the next election, because if he leaves and a new NDP leader comes in, it's going to be a very different game. So I think the point of the matter is they'd love to see, now, I would also argue that if Carney gets in, he would love to see Singh win as well, because he's going to take some

NDP votes. So it's interesting times at Richmond High, as they say, because we are in a situation where the average Canadian is feeling very lacking security, lacking safety. That's the basis of Maslow's hierarchy needs. Without that, it's very difficult for me to feel like I'm standing on anything but shifting sand. And you just mentioned it, that there was a time where the Liberal Party was the party of the centre. Sondrej Kretsjian, actually they were able to go from pretty right of center, all the way to slightly left of center. And that's where the votes were. But they have been so far left for so long. And most of the people who are going to be vying to take over from Justin Trudeau have stood shoulder to shoulder with him, enabling this vision for that party and for our country.

How does a politician in such a short period of time, they're not going to have a long leadership race. How are they able to say, you know what? Yeah, sure. That was me then. But this is me now. I'm a different kind of liberal. I don't I'm going to take the party and the country in a different direction. How do they say that in any way that people will believe? They're great question. I would question whether anybody that's been attached to this government really stands a chance of winning an election. And even Mark Carney, I'm surprised that he got as close as he did to Trudeau. Because if he's had this ambition from day one to become prime minister of Canada, I wouldn't have put myself attached even five wagons

away from his wagon because it's all part of that legacy. So what I wonder is, are we going to see something come out of that surprises all of what I wonder is, are we going to see something come out that surprises all of us? This is just a wild thought. Arlene Dickinson decides she wants to run for the Liberal Party. Someone that has run businesses, that's a female, that's pragmatic, that's got Western values, came from out West. Someone like that that's just going to surprise everybody because if you're just fishing in the pool called liberals that are attached to Justin Trudeau, I question whether anybody's going to believe that changing that lead singer is actually going to change the tune of that band.

And the thing is, they also don't get to set the agenda. They don't get to set the narrative. That is going to happen by whatever the Tories decide to do. They are well organized, they are well funded, they are disciplined in a way that I haven't seen a caucus on the right be disciplined since the days of my dad. They do not they thus far have not made any massive missteps that they've had to walk back in the in terms of what they say in public. And like I said, very well funded, very able to communicate directly with people through

social media. So whoever this next leader is, they will be the ones to define that person, much like they used to do with great success with Stefan Zion and Michael Ignatiev. So they have an uphill battle, regardless. Without question. I mean, you might come in with the credentials of Mark Carney,

but immediately he's being labeled Carbon Tax Carney. Really taking a playbook from the states, Crooked Hillary. And what I would suggest to the conservative parties, be less concerned about snackable content and using parliament as your way of, you know, hitting with these remarks and be now focused on what I'm going to do in the first hundred days in office. What I'm going to do for the next six months, because people are still nervous about him, Paul Abbe, because he's being on the attack. He's an attack dog. I think as Jordan Peterson,

that interview he did was brilliant, but how many people are gonna sit through two hours? So I think that they've got to do is now change the course from being how bad is this government to what can we do to help right this ship? We have less than a minute left, but over the course of the next couple of months during this leadership race,

they run the risk of looking disorganized and bereft of vision. How do they as the microscope is on that party, how do they show people, no, we're the adults in the room? Well, we're gonna find out in the next couple of minutes, if Trudeau doesn't step down and remains in power, they can't because it's gonna be a bit of a circus.

We've seen that with Biden right now in the States, trying to hold on to some sense of legacy and power. I think the best move the Liberals could do is he steps down, interim leader comes in that says, I'm not going to run for the leadership, but I'm going to allow other people to do so. But while I'm in place, I'm going to run this government. Show some confidence and conviction that the Liberals still are capable of running the country. Tony Chapman, thank you so much. Always appreciate you having you on the show. Always a pleasure to be here.

All right. Don't go anywhere on the Ben Mulroney show. Coming up, we're gonna be taking Justin Trudeau live as he potentially tells us that he will be stepping down as liberal leader and ultimately as prime minister of Canada. I'm Ben Mulroney and you're listening to the Ben Mulroney show across the course radio network.