The Ben Mulroney Show - Full Coverage of Justin Trudeau's resignation Part 2

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Guests and Topics on Today's Show -Justin Trudeau's Press Conference -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Chris Chapin, Political Commentator, Managing Principal of Upstream Strategy -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Warren Kinsella, Former Special Advisor to Jean Chretien and CEO of the Daisy Group  -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Paul Wells, Canadian journalist and pundit -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Marcel Wieder, Liberal Strategist, President and Chief Advocate of Aurora Strategy Global -Justin Trudeau resignation with Guest: Anthony Koch, Managing Principal at AK Strategies and former National Campaign Spokesperson for Pierre Poilievre If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The all-new FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino is bringing you more action than ever. Want more ways to follow your faves? Check out our new player prop tracking with real-time notifications. Or have out more ways to customize your casino page with our new favorite and recently played games tabs. And to top it all off, quick and secure withdrawals. Get more everything with FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Visit connexontario.ca. Casino. Gambling problem call 1-866-531-2600. Visit connexontario.ca. With TD Direct Investing, new and existing clients could get 1% cash back. Great! That's 1% closer to being part of the 1%.

Maybe, but definitely 100% closer to getting 1% cash back with TD Direct Investing. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31st, 2025. Visit td.com slash dioffer to learn more. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and Justin Trudeau is set to speak any moment now

in front of Rideau Cottage in Ottawa, that is his prime minister's residence, where it is roundly accepted that he will be announcing that he will be stepping down, resigning as a liberal leader. Now we're hearing that he may stay on as prime minister until this new leader is picked, which means no interim leader, the justification for that would be that he would stay on in order to deal with the bilateral relationship with Donald Trump. We don't know. We have no idea. We believe he's already spoken with Mary Simon to prorogue parliament until close to the end of March, which means to me that the business of government, to the end of March, which means to me that the business of government, it's not it's gonna be half hearted. Right? Because the people like Dominique Leblanc, people like

Christia Freeland, people like Mark Carney, who is an advisor to the government, they're gonna they're gonna have their attention divided between their jobs and the job they want. And we'll be working towards getting Melanie Jolie is expected as well. Minister Champagne could throw his name in the ring as well. I mean, these are some heavy hitters on the show. We're joined now by Chris Chapin, political commentator and managing principal of Upstream Strategy. Chris, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for being here on this momentous day in Canadian history. But we're gonna talk, I might have to interrupt you if the Prime Minister does step out of the cottage, but welcome to the show. Always a pleasure, Ben. So what if you were a betting man, what do you think we're going to hear here? Well, I think if all the reporting is correct, and I think at this point, it's hard to believe that it's not true. It sounds like the Prime Minister is going to choose not to call an election, which I frankly think he should do. But he's going to he's already asked the Governor General, to prorogue Parliament until late March, and that they're going to kickstart a leadership campaign. I completely agree with you.

I think it's frankly quite reckless. I think the distraction of a leadership race with everything that's happening south of the border and with what President-elect Trump has signaled when it comes to tariffs and the impact that could and would have on our economy. The fact that the finance minister is contemplating a run, the fact that the foreign affairs minister is contemplating a run, this should have been done months ago if the liberals thought they could fancy a shot to stay in power but the truth is I think at this's it's too little too late. Now you've run a leadership campaign in the past. Where would these teams be right now in terms of getting their ground

game ready? Well, I think it's quite likely that you probably have Christian Freeland and Mark Carney having teams surrounding them. There's already been some reports about different names for finance folks and organizing folks. I think there was no doubt to anybody that's seen Christia Freeland communicate over the past, you know, five years that resignation letter was far too polished to just come from her desk alone. So I think there's no doubt she's got a campaign team around her. It's trickier for the others. The liberals haven't had a strong volunteer base for a very long time. And I don't think this race particularly inspires

many people to get involved. I think it's pretty clear they're up against a juggernaut with the conservatives and Pierre Pauliès that, you know, I think there was a lot of liberals that I spoke to that just wish Trudeau went to the polls so that he can get beaten and they can start fresh. I think this is going to set them back big time. I don't think they're in the same position the provincial liberals were when Dalton McGinty did something very similar and Kathleen Wynne came in to take over as premier. I think they're in a much much more difficult position to be in and and I don't envy anybody. I don't frankly understand why anybody put their name forward other than for a

month or two you'll go down in the history books as being a prime minister, but I don't think you know anybody looks fondly at Kim Campbell's time in power and office to say, you're really part of that club. But Chris, to play devil's advocate, as somebody said on this show earlier today, you can't be a leader if you have no one to lead. And if the caucus has told him that they've lost,

he's lost their support, then surely the argument could be made that he even if he wanted to run in the next election, which I think we all agree, it would be the quickest path for them to start rebuilding and and separate themselves from this flawed government and their policies. It would be an impossible task for him to to to manage because he wouldn't have any candidates to run for him. I think that's exactly why he should have stepped down when it was crystal clear

to anybody with a pulse in this country that recognized that his caucus wasn't behind him months and months ago. And he held on and he ignored the media and he ignored his caucus. It took Christia Freeland's resignation to really tip the dominoes over on this. He could have called an election months ago, he could have called step down and called for a leadership race over the holidays, especially knowing what we know now with the timeline of President-elect Trump taking office on January 20th. And instead we've got a lame duck Prime Minister for the next three or four months if the reporting is true. And unfortunately we're gonna have a

leadership race that's just gonna provide for an even larger distraction. And I think that's really troublesome for Canadians that at this time, we need certainty more than anything else. And the prime minister has chosen to, I think, do what is the worst case scenario in this equation. Chris, how do these potential candidates differentiate themselves, separate themselves from the legacy of this party, a legacy that they all in one way, shape or form had a hand in crafting

and owning? It's very difficult. I think some will try to be the establishment candidate and run on that what we were doing was right. We just had the wrong message. That was certainly something that constantly came out of cabinet when there was criticism about Trudeau was that we just don't have the right message, but we're doing the right things. I think a lot of Canadians would frankly, vehemently disagree with that. But the reality is you're going to have some try to run the

establishment lane, you're going to have some try to run an outsider lane. That's going to be difficult for anybody, but maybe Mark Carney, but it sounds like he's been advocating the government for some time now on economic policy. And that's certainly not led us to the promised land. So you're I think what unfortunately we're going to see, especially the way the liberals leadership race is structured and their membership just requiring an email address and not any kind of financial donation or cost to a potential member. Like all right, you don't have to be a member. You have to be a supporter. I think you just have to be a supporter in the liberal party.

So I unfortunately think we're going to see a very divisive party become even more divisive. I think there's no better way to sign up thousands of people than find wedge issues that alienate, you know, yourself from the rest of the pack. And so I wouldn't be surprised if we see immigration become a really big issue in the leadership race. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody takes a very, very pro-Gaza

stand in hopes that it can sign up hundreds of thousands of supporters that way, because no financial commitment's required in the liberal leadership race. That was the hallmark of Trudeau's era. That's how he surged to power the liberal leadership back when he did. And so I think that's more likely what we're going to see is we're going to see some really divisive wedge politics take place over the next couple of months at the worst possible time. I think when Canadians, you know, we certainly see this at the premier level, trying to unite the country. I think unfortunately we're going to see a federal

leadership race with the federal liberals. That's very, very divisive. And this party that has been accused of being run by children, not taking things seriously, amateur hour, clown car name, call it what you will, they're going to be under a national microscope. And that if what you have described comes to pass, then that's just going to reinforce in a lot of people's minds that this party certainly wasn't ready for prime time, but isn't no longer ready for prime time. Do you think that their worst days are behind them? Oh, I believe he's come. Oh, no. Do you believe that his, that this party's worst days are behind them as far as their polling floor? Or could things get worse for them before they get better? I absolutely think things will get worse before they get better.

I think anybody that's trying to pretend that, like you said off the top, most of these key names that are being thrown about were key architects. Just because Christia Freeland said that she thought a $250 check was bad fiscal politics doesn't mean she hasn't been supporting the prime minister since day one.

Every one of those names has been heavily invested and involved in the federal government for years and years and years. So I know I think the worst part that they have on their hands is if this leadership race really is just two, two and a half months, it's going to be almost impossible to differentiate yourself from the past. I think you're just going to have to embrace some of the damage that's been done and try to, you know, as Sarah Palin once famously said, put lipstick on a pig. Now, I have a Justin Trudeau is making us wait, you know, we've waited three and a half weeks to hear him say anything. So I'm not surprised that when he called the press conference for 1045 and he's not here. But I only about 30 seconds left with you, Chris. Do you think it's possible that one of these candidates comes out and says, vote for me and I'll get rid of

the carbon tax? Yeah, I think it's possible. I just, I don't know if it's likely. I think they've all had such lengthy records supporting it and endorsing it. There's never been one that's even questioned it. So all right, I think it's possible. Chris, we're gonna been one that's even questioned it. So I think it's possible. Chris, we're gonna leave it there. Thank you so much. I Justin Trudeau still has not reared his head. He still has not come up, but we do expect him any minute. So we're gonna take a quick break here on the Ben Mulroney show. And when we come back,

Justin Trudeau potentially resigning stepping down as Prime Minister of Canada or certainly as a liberal leader, don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back. We're going to take a bust away from the Q&A. I was doing my best to give you that in English and in French. And we're joined now by Warren Kinsella, former special advisor to Jean Chrétien and CEO of the Daisy Group, as well as Paul Wells, Canadian journalist and pundit. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Paul, I will put it to you first. What are your first impressions of this press conference? He sounded sad. He did not want to quit. He wanted this fight against Pyropolev. But you can draw a straight line between Donald Trump's post on Truth Social six weeks ago and this resignation, the threat of 25%

tariffs on every Canadian import, stress tested this government and Trudeau couldn't meet the test. He's now going to prorogue parliament. It wasn't guaranteed that the governor general would accept, but she has. It's quite a long prorogation, three months, during which Trump, if he feels like it, can impose those tariffs and this lame duck government with not a lot of legitimacy will have very few tools to respond with. It's a lousy situation and it's one that Trudeau

has allowed himself to get back into. Warren, what's your take? He looks relieved to me. A little bit sad as Paul says, but there was an inevitability at this moment. And he really had no way out. There was no path back to viability, let alone victory. So he did what he had to do. And the prorogation makes sense to me. There's some precedent for that. Having a leadership race in these, you know,

compressed circumstances is going to be challenging. But Doug Ford became a majority premier after 120 days, you know, after his predecessor left. So I think it's doable. It's going to be a lot of fun actually for guys in our business to pay attention to what's going to take place. But you know, he had to go. It was obvious he'd lost his caucus. He'd lost public opinion. And he just, you know, manifestly was not the right guy for the circumstances

we find ourselves in as a country. Paul, in such a short period of time, how can the apparent frontrunners who have been walking in lockstep with this Prime Minister and this government helping enact the policies that it looks like so many Canadians want to move away from? How can they differentiate themselves from the pack? How can they say, elect me as leader, I will be a different kind of liberal, even though they helped build this particular brand of the liberal party? It's going to be difficult.

And, and, and, uh, I think we've all seen here probably of doing his best to make sure that they can't back away from the connection to Trudeau. He's emphasized the fact that Mark Carney accepted this economic commission assignment from Trudeau as party leader only three or four months ago. And that makes him Trudeau's economic advisor on X or Twitter or whatever we're calling it. He keeps saying carbon tax carny is just like Trudeau. I suspect that's a connection that a lot of Canadian voters would make anyway. that's a connection that a lot of Canadian voters would make anyway. As for Krista Freeland, she sure had a good day when she quit three weeks ago, but she has been his finance minister since

2020. And that's a legacy that's hard to back away from. Warren, you said on X, I believe yesterday, there's a path forward for at least a slight uptick in the polls bit by bit over the course of this for the Liberal Party. But if this Liberal race overlaps with Trump's first 100 days, immediately during those 100 days we get slapped with those tariffs. This Liberal Party, regardless of who's leading it, is going to have to own that. And the fact that they would be trying to redecorate the house while the house is on fire, I don't see how that leads to a better result in the next election for the party regardless of who's leading it. Well yeah, the tariffs are bad and I believe it's not an if. I think there's an inevitability of them. He campaigned on them. He's got a mandate to do them. He's being certified today at Congress.

He's going to do it. He needs to do the tariffs in order to pay for his tax cut. So whoever is there is going to have to deal with it and you know do we as a country believe we have an ability to change Donald Trump's mind? Well you know I don't think so. None of us have had that ability to figure out what goes on inside that man's mind. So the leadership campaign will happen and all of them will pronounce on what Trump is saying. Some of them will take a very anti-Trump stance. Some will be more moderate, you know, and Pollyanna will be asked about it too. But I mean, at the end of the day, the tariffs are going to happen and it's going to hammer the Canadian economy and a liberal leadership race is going

to have no meaningful effect on it or not. Well, we're going to have to leave it there. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being so patient as we waited to hear the Prime Minister's words. I do appreciate it. I hope I speak to you again very soon. You got it. Last night over dinner, I told my kids about the decision that I'm sharing with you today. I intend to resign as party leader, as prime minister, after the party selects its next leader through a robust nationwide competitive process. Last night I asked the president of the Liberal Party to begin that process. This country deserves a real choice in the next election. And it has become clear to me that if I'm having to fight internal battles, I cannot be the best option in that election.

This is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the show. And yeah, you heard it live here on the Chorus Radio Network. Justin Trudeau is set to resign after about a three month leadership race. So I guess he'll focus on Donald Trump while the rest of his government splits their time between government and running for leader.

We're joined now by Marcel Weider, liberal strategist, president, chief advocate of Aurora Strategy Global. And in the effort of disclosure, I have a professional relationship with Aurora and Jas Johal, host at the Jas Johal show on CKNW in Vancouver and former member of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. To both of you, I say hello. Hello. Jas, let's start with you. First of all, welcome to the show for the very first time. Hey, thanks for having me. So what did,

first impressions of Justin Trudeau and what he said in both English and in French? Well, I think out here in British Columbia, certainly a sigh of relief to a certain degree. I think as we were heading towards an election, whatever time it would have been this year, if Mr. Trudeau had stayed on, certainly by the polling numbers and what I was hearing from liberal members out here in British Columbia, this party would have been decimated. You know, we've got I think 16 seats presently here in British Columbia held by Liberals. When I talk to folks behind the scenes, they're thinking potentially, talking potentially, a one to three seats if Mr Trudeau had stayed on in regards to where they could potentially win,

maybe four at the outset if you're being really nice. So I think in the sense of giving this party a chance, I think a lot of liberals out here in British Columbia today in the West feel that at least whatever robust leadership race they go into moving forward, it gives them at least a new face and hopefully a new chance, a better chance to articulate their views and positions to British Columbia. Marcel, I think, Jas, I think that's a very optimistic view. If timing is everything in politics, then this is the worst timing in the history of a decision that's been made, listen, my recent memory,

you've got a new president coming in, and so this 90 day race is gonna overlap with his first 100 days. And while they're redecorating the house, Donald Trump's going to come in and torch the house. True enough. I think that Justin Trudeau just had his Joe Biden moment. In terms of Biden was also basically forced out by the Democratic Party.

And now Justin Trudeau is being forced out by the Liberal Party. The one difference, though, is that in his statement that you just played, Trudeau said that he wanted a robust national leadership race, which did not really happen with the Democrats. It was basically Kamala Harris was anointed, and that was it. Now, it's the same sort of situation. Harris came in at the last minute and whoever succeeds Trudeau is also going to come in at the last minute and whether that's going to be enough to

turn the tables will be seen. Jassie, you were a former member of the MLA in British Columbia, so I'm sure you are well acquainted with Christy Clark. She tweeted out her response to the resignation before the resignation was actually complete. It was mid-press conference and she said, after a lifetime of public service, Justin Trudeau has stepped aside as both leader of the Liberal Party and Prime Minister of Canada. I want to thank him as a Canadian for his service to the country that he so clearly loves. I wish him and his family well. As a lifelong liberal, I look forward to joining tens of thousands of Canadians to choose our

next leader. This is the biggest opportunity in over a decade that we've had to grow our party and welcome new liberals, including Canadians concerned about the future of our country. Let's seize it. In my very amateur opinion, she is probably the best positioned liberal to make a break from the past nine years that have disappointed, upset, and angered so many voters. Yeah, I think she juxtaposes well against Mr. Poliev. She is a fabulous retail politician. And I've had Mr. Poliev on my show probably six or seven times in the past two years.

He was just on last month. And look, he is a strong campaigner as well. I still think it's his election to lose, absolutely. But if you want to find a leader for the Liberal Party that is not connected to Justin Trudeau in the last 10 years and somebody you can campaign, I think she would fit very well. But in regards to a leadership race, I also think she would fit very well. But in regards to a leadership race, I also think she reflects a different liberal party of a different era. She will have to work to convince that new generation of liberal

member, Millennials especially, that she can reflect those values at the same time move this party to, I would argue, more of a centrist natural governing party which has always been. And that's one of the complaints I hear from a lot of liberals. So I would agree with your core premise that you make that, look, she would be very good in regards to as someone opposing Mr. Poliev. It's still going to be a very much an uphill race though. But in regards to just as a clear campaigner, a retail politician, she is one of the best. Marcel, but the devil is in the details and specifically the details of who can vote and

how you become a member. You don't even have to be a member of the Liberal Party, you just have to be a supporter. You don't have to donate any money, you just have to have an email address. And we had a guest earlier on the Ben Mulroney Show who suggested that this race could become very tumultuous with wedge politics playing a big role. How do you get a certain massive swath of young people in? I don't know, maybe you come out strong in favor of a Palestinian state. Maybe you come out even stronger in favor of environmental regulation.

I mean, we don't know how this is going to transpire. You're a strategist, you've got roots in the party. What do you think? Well, certainly it's gonna be interesting how to be able to respond in that respect in terms of growing the party. And certainly someone like a Christie Clark would have a certain amount of appeal.

And certainly people like Carney and Freeland also. The rules are basically you have to be signed up 41 days before the actual vote. So that kind of gives you a limit in terms of how many days to be able to organize. So some of the leadership candidates will focus on various blocks. You know, and you mentioned that some of them are ethnic, religious, you know, social, etc. and trying to scoop up as many people because as you point out, all you need to do is go to the website, say you're a member, register, and if you're within the 41 days, you can vote on the leadership. It's also a ranked ballot, by the way. That's something you

also have to take into consideration. So you may be leading on the first, but you know, depending on how the votes break down, somebody in second or third could surpass you at some point. So there's a lot of permutations that go into a leadership campaign. Jazz, I only about 30 seconds left for you, but I got a wonder to have this race at this pivotal time where it's really gonna hit the fan and the economy is gonna suffer when these tariffs come in. The only person who's gonna own that

is whoever leads this party next. And so I've got a wonder, have we seen the worst yet in terms of polling numbers for the Liberal Party? Or is the worst still to come? Well, with new leaders at the end of the day, they especially if they come in from the outside, it's a different face to the party. But there's no doubt Mr. Trudeau has left this to the last minute. And that is not the perfect timing that I think the liberals would have hoped last fall would have been wonderful for them. But he didn't do that.

And so he's made his decision now and they're going to have to live with it. But boy, it's going to be a very, very interesting and challenging time, not only for the liberal party, but for our country, as you said, with Donald Trump just a days away and as we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much to Marcel and to jazz. I hope to talk to you again real soon. Don't go anywhere. More to come on The Ben Mulroney Show. I am a fighter and I am not someone who backs away from a fight, particularly in a fight is as important as this one is.

But I have always been driven by my love for Canada, by my desire to serve Canadians and by what is in the best interests of Canadians. And Canadians deserve a real choice in the next election. You're listening to the Ben Mulrooney show. Justin Trudeau our 23rd Prime Minister has announced that he will be stepping down as Liberal leader but not until a new leader is picked. The question now is what's that leadership race gonna look like? Robin Urbach of the Globe and Mail tweeted this liberal leadership race is going to be wild.

As a reminder, basically anyone living in Canada can register. You don't need to be a citizen or permanent resident, and you need to be just 14 years old. The race can thus be easily hijacked by any number of special interests. Let's drill down on that with Anthony Kosh, managing partner at AK Strategies and former national campaign spokesperson for Pierre poliev. Anthony, as I

said in the previous segment, timing is everything and this leadership race could not be coming at a worst time for the Liberal Party or for Canada given the fact we got these Trump tariffs coming in. Liberals have effectively decided that they're getting paid in three months of lame months of lame duck governance in the middle of the most consequential negotiation with our most important ally in several decades. So again, maybe it's better for the liberals in some respect, I take issue with that only

part of what you said, because it delays what would have been surely a non-confidence motion in the government at some point in early February, mid February to potentially March 24th. But for Canadians, you get a bad deal, right? Nobody wants liberal insiders and as you said, potentially non-citizens choosing our next Prime Minister. Canadians want election. Yeah. I mean, you know, when you put it like that, it's even more infuriating. So you have potentially 14 year old non Canadian citizens casting a vote for who will ultimately be our next prime minister before the people of this country are allowed to vote on their next government. It's infuriating. Even in resignation, Justin True fails at leadership, right? Yeah. It's funny the way he did this, you saw his performance today.

Somebody had a great tweet actually. As he was approaching the podium, his prepared remarks actually were blown off by Augustine. What an omen, what a representation of the moment that we all find ourselves in as Canadians. But no, absolutely, nobody benefits here other than a couple of liberal consultants who are now going to go make a quick buck, what I'm assuming is going to be a very rushed liberal leadership race. Well, let me let me read a prediction that Warren Kinsella, who was on our show a little bit earlier, made.

And he's got some institutional knowledge of how these these sorts of things go. He said on Twitter, here's what's going to happen. One, prorogation request granted. Two, Trudeau resigns. Libs go up a bit. Three, leadership race. Libs go up more. Four, new leader honeymoon. Libs go up more. Five, election call fast to capitalize on it. Libs win, doubt it. it depends on four and five. I think that is the

single most optimistic take on what could possibly come down the pike. No, absolutely. I'll find that depend but what this is from the liberals are going to face. There is nobody who finds themselves within this current liberal caucus, who is going to be able to wash off the stench of Justin Trudeau's government because they were all willing, happy, clapping seals for this guy for the better part of a decade.

So now what's going to happen? They're going to run for leadership. They're going to win in theory. Oh yeah, remember all those things that I supported enthusiastically for the last decade that everybody's fed up about and wants to throw out into the garbage of the government? Yeah, actually, I don't agree with those things anymore. Now I've changed course and I've got something new on offer. It's just not credible. It's not serious. Yes, Mr. Trudeau specifically has a lot of personal unpopularity, but I think people underestimate just how much this extends to the entire current batch of liberals? Yeah, it's this is I don't I don't see how they come out of this looking more

stronger, more in charge, more competent, more responsible. I see I see this if Robin Urbach is even remotely right then the image that is going to be reflected back to Canadians is that this party is so untethered from reality, that to give them anything, they're going to wish they were back at 16% in the polls after this leadership race. Listeners to be aware of it. While it is true, liberals are not the only party that allows permanent residents or non-citizens, I should say, to vote in their leadership race where they are unique.

But in the territory of Canada, for example, if you want to sign up to vote in a leadership race, you have to pay for a membership. Not only do you have to pay for a membership, you have to do so using a credit card that bears your name. Everything is traceable. We know exactly who you are, where you're from, the whole nine yards. So in Canada, and that they are the only party at the federal level that allows people to become members of the party, the purpose

of voting in a leadership race without having to spend a dime. Yeah. It's free. Which makes it a lot more difficult to trace. You can have people getting signed up in bulk without even knowing Wow, they've signed up so it's very different circumstance But exactly right the next Prime Minister of Canada is not going to be decided by Canadians at large It's going to be decided by people who are members of the Liberal Party of Canada many of whom are not even Canadian And and look while this while this I don't know what you want to call it It feels like a circus, but while this is going on on the other side of the house you have a

Conservative caucus that is just about as disciplined as any caucus. I have seen since the Mulroney days I have not seen a misstep. I have not seen somebody have to walk back a Comment I haven't seen somebody have to walk back a comment. I haven't seen somebody speak against the policy of the party. These guys are focused, they are well-funded, they are hungry, they want an election, and they are going to whoever comes out of this thing, they will be the ones to frame that person and identify that person for for voters. At least that's my take. Absolutely. Here's the thing about leadership races,

they're intrinsically by definition, horrifically divisive. You line up behind different categories and rip each other to pieces. That's why the best outcome in any given party leadership race is the landslide, which is exactly what Mr. Poliev had in the most recent leadership election for the conservative party.

And that gives you that sort of mandate from your own people to carry the torch and move forward. The liberals are already divided. Now they're about to go into an even more divisive process. And like you said, I mean, in fairness, it's easy to be united and walk in lockstep when things are going well, right? Any conservative caucus member who looks at polls or anything right now is probably feeling pretty good and can see that the strategy that Mr. Poliev has selected is working. Is that the same in liberal life? Absolutely not. The circus continues, the circus will continue and I agree with you. I don't think there's any Canadian

who was on the fence right now who's looking at what's going on in the Liberal Party of Canada and saying, oh yeah, Mr. Trudeau's decision to resign today makes me want to look at the Liberals a second chance. Anthony Kosh, Managing Principal at AK Strategies, former National Campaign spokesperson for Pierre Poliev. Thank you very much. We're going to be relying on you quite a bit in the coming days and weeks and months. So thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your Monday. Thank you. Thanks for having me.