The Ben Mulroney Show - Gov't Debates Decolonizing Science

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

On today's episode of 'The Ben Mulroney Show,' Ben welcomes Tom Korski, Managing Editor of the Blacklock’s Reporter. They discuss a report from the federal government regarding the decolonization of federal science. If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠   Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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it's like having your own coach. Whatever your favorite game, we have your playbook. Ozone. Well played. Discover free sports tips, casino games and poker guides at Ozone.net. Every now and then you see a story that just makes you shake your head. And a few months ago, there was a story out of British Columbia of teachers that were trying to teach, indoctrinate young students, that the natural world was evidence of queer theory, that the clouds demonstrated that sexuality was fluid. Now, I'm not making a value judgment on the fluidity of sexuality.

I'm making a judgment on the nonsense that that is proved through the clouds. And I went on a bit of rent and it had a little bit of a moment online. I suspect this one is right up there. And our good friends at Blacklock's reporter, uncovered that all federal scientific research should be indigenous focused, says a Department of Natural Resources report. How can we as public servants be actors in reconciliation, it asked? Ideally, the decolonization of research implies full indigenous ownership of research.

However, it is still hard. To drill down into this morass of nonsense, we're joined by our good friend Tom Korski, From Black Locks reporter, Tom, welcome to the show. Thank you, Ben. Before we get into it, I want to give you as a primer, the sage words of Dr. Gad SADSAD on, but he's speaking on universities and why they breed bad ideas. But I want to play this for you. And then we'll talk about how it links to this on the other side.

How come almost every single time bad ideas come from university? So Orwell answered it one way. I'll paraphrase it. So he said something to the effect of it takes intellectuals to come up with some of the dumbest ideas. And I wholeheartedly agree with that. Now, why is that? Because in many cases, the academic who literally lives in the ivory tower is fully decoupled from the autocorrective mechanism of reality. So for example, I am housed in a business school.

In the business school, there is less parasitic ideas. Because if you build an economic model to predict the economy that's based on political, postmodernism, reality will tell you, you suck. If engineering schools also have less parasitic ideas, because if you build a bridge using postmodernist indigenous physics as opposed to physics, then the bridge will collapse. So some disciplines have an inoculation against these parasitic ideas because reality will quickly catch up to you. But in other disciplines, all we needed to hear, Tom, I heard him say that a few weeks ago and I was

Like, oh, okay, well, at least in certain fields where these crazy ideas butt up against the reality of math or science or economics, they will be pushed back by reality. And now to hear that in research, in the federal government, they want to use subjective lenses through which to do things that should be objective in their pursuits. is unbelievably crazy. It is detached from reality. This is the Department of Natural Resources that has advocated this. They identify themselves. Their words, not mine. A science-based department.

Don't let the word natural fool you. We used to call it the Department of Mining and Energy. This is the department that promotes mining, oil and gas, and forestry. They have nothing to do with indigenous reconciliation, but they've gone whole hog on it, very enthusiastically. Not only do they have this peculiar attitude that all federal research must somehow be indigenous focused, Ben, I don't even know what that means. No, no.

How do you have an indigenous lens on the Canada food guide or an environment, Canada weather forecast? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Look, look, these are fields, the research in these areas. They need to have application. beyond Canada. There are rules that govern mining and the development of mines around the world. Physics, geology, chemistry, there are global standards and there are peer reviews that are essential to harmonizing our research with research around the world. If you throw it through an

indigenous lens or a cultural lens, I don't know what comes out the other side, but it's not something that somebody, you know, a mining expert in the United States or a mining expert in Brazil is going to understand? No. And you're left with the impression also that this was sort of playtime. If they were really serious, go ahead and make an indigenous deputy minister. Yeah. Go ahead. You know that's not going to happen. Then these, this department is so into it. Four years ago, they were the first federal department to do this. They actually hired a panel in-house. They were going to have a panel of elders, indigenous elders, in residents. And they called it a work unit, an unpronounceable name, the Algonquin word for

sweetgrass. I quote from one of the reports, one of the four sacred medicines in indigenous traditions. Ben, could you imagine as a Catholic going to the Department of Natural Resources and said, you know what, sacramental wine, I believe, is the blood of Christ. And I'd like to incorporate that into our mining research. They would ask you if you've been drinking coffee syrup. But this is how heavy these guys have gone in on it. Tom, this is so, it is so unsurious. And we are living in a very serious time. A lot of the issues that we are facing are self-inflicted. The money that we are spending today is not yours. It is not mine. It's not even my kids' money. It's barely my grandkids money. It's my great grandkids money. We are paying for things that we are

borrowing from future generations. We don't have the financial capacity to indulge these people, their whims and their performances. It's time to get serious and it's time to get down to the essentials. And the fact that this is going on on Mark Carney's watch is disappointing. I thought the numbers guy. I thought the grand bean counter was going to start counting the beans. Ben, you want to talk about posers in Ottawa?

You're right. You want to talk about performative. And you're right. You reach a point where this becomes, frankly, infuriating. So they're going to have sweet grass and indigenous perspectives on mining research. While there are people in First Nations who can't drink the tap water. My favorite statistic, and this is a government stat, not mine. My home province in Manitoba, the dropout rate in First Nation schools on

reserves is 85%, 85%. In fact, they caught the Department of Indigenous Services faking the number because they excluded kids who dropped out before grade 9. 85% dropout rate, Ben, in this economy, you're doomed,

but they want to talk about sweet grass and elders and residents. It's exhausting. It's infuriating. It's exhausting. I don't want my tax dollars going to making white liberals feel better about their lives. Like that's, I want my tax dollars going to making everyone's lives, including and especially First Nations lives better.

That's how you achieve reconciliation, not by saying that we're going to add an indigenous lens to how we study the geological composition of a mine. That helps nobody. It spends money. It doesn't get us to where we want to be. And this is happening. I have no doubt, Tom, that you probably have file after file after file of this happening ad nauseum

throughout the ranks of various governments across Canada. Oh, it's true. And especially federally, as you point out, no one will tell them to stop. By the way, God bless them natural resources, Canada. They have mandated for four years now that every single employee, every single year, must take eight hours of what they call self-directed indigenous learning. They don't actually have a check-off to see how many are commons. applying, but this is my favorite part.

Their words, not mine. The number of hours completed may not be the most relevant metric of learning. Oh, yes, because because time management is a product of white supremacy, Tom Corski. You didn't know that? I see it now. Yeah, you see it now. Exactly. And by seeing that, you just made every First Nation's life better in Canada.

That's, yeah. Oh, geez. Tom, we got to leave it there. But managing editor, Blacklock's reporter. Thank you so much, my friend. Thank you, Ben.