The Ben Mulroney Show - Has Hamas already broken the peace deal? How are hostages recovering...

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

GUEST:  Maureen Leshem - her cousin Romi Gonen was held hostage for 471 days and released in January. If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Mulrooney today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com slash Mulrooney. That was President Donald Trump over the weekend signing the documents that should, if all goes according to plan, usher in a new piece between Gaza and Israel. It was a seminal moment, one that a lot of us have been hoping to see.

And it is certainly not the end of the road. It is the beginning of a very long and arduous process that if they get to the 20 points of the plan and check every one of those boxes, we could be living in a new era of peace in the Middle East. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. I'm your host. It is Tuesday, October 14th. And what a weekend it was where we saw elation on the streets of New York and across the Western world and indeed, in Israel with the return of the 20 living hostages. What did Israel say?

Give us back our hostages and this war will end. True to their word, they have withdrawn their troops from Gaza. And that really, really messes with the pro-Hamas argument, especially in the West, where Israel said, if you give us back our hostages, this war ends. They got back their hostages and what did they do? They withdrew their troops. also signals a really interesting part of the, the genocide argument, that this was a genocide. Genocide is a war, is a, a definition of intent. You must have the intent to liquidate a people.

Where does that intent go? What happened to that intent if they showed how quickly they were willing to just go back to where they came from? If they got what they wanted, what was theirs, their people who were abducted on October 7, 2023. The intent, Argument evaporated because they showed what their real intent was. Their intent was to get their hostages back. We know that for fact because they stuck to their word. Now, there are 24 remains of hostages that are still in Gaza. Hamas is saying there are issues.

They can't find them perhaps. I don't know. But they got the living hostages back. And Israel has rolled back their military presence in Gaza. Meanwhile, 1,968 Palestinian prisoners were released. Now, over the weekend at that summit, I want you to hear the words of the Israeli opposition leader speaking directly to those in the West who have been calling for a ceasefire nonstopping. Here is a ceasefire. Here's what he told them.

I do not represent the government, as you know, I am the leader of the opposition. And I tell you, then you were deceived. You were deceived. Propaganda experts funded by terror money, manipulated you. Now that the war has stopped, you have time and a chance to go and learn the facts. The truth is, there was no genocide, no intentional starvation. See, and I just told you, of course. Their intent was demonstrated when they left.

of their own accord because they got their hostages back. What have people like me been saying for years? This ends the second Hamas gives the hostages back. And the fact that there have been so many people in the West pushing back against that narrative tells me that had those people seen what is clear as day to people like me, the pressure would have been put on Hamas

years ago to give those hostages back and the death that the people of Gaza have been reeling from would have been minimized. Hamas is responsible for every single death in this war, every single one of them, every one. And the war continued because people on this side of the Ocean decided to throw in with a death cult rather than see what was as plain as day to people like me. Now, sadly, some of the hostages who are going to be suffering long-term effects of trauma came back with some insights into the mind of the terrorists Hamas by sharing their stories of what they heard from the terrorists themselves while they were being held in

captivity. They think that all the world should be Islam. They said to me that more than one time, more than dozens of times. They told me that after the finish with the Israelis, they will go to France and Britain and the United States and all the world should be Muslims. So that's how they believe this is jihad. I wish that that was some sort of unique insight. But they've said as much publicly before, but we have people in the West who have been minimizing and downplaying those sorts of statements for years. No, no, no, this is an act of resistance. And no, they don't want that. But what choice do they have when forced into this position by a genocidal colonial apartheid state like Israel? It's all nonsense and it was always nonsense. And now we're hearing it

from somebody who heard it from the mouths of their captors. Now, the U.S. has seems to have given Hamas a temporary green light to reassert control in this, in Gaza. Since there's a ceasefire, it should be noted, that Hamas has killed at least 33 of its own citizens in crackdowns with rival groups. and we've all seen it on social media. They've assassinated people in the streets. Now, I have to wonder whether the Gaza Health Ministry has added those 33 people to their list of innocents who've been killed in this war. Probably not. Probably not.

There's also something else that's interesting in those videos. How many, quote-unquote, innocent Gazans held up their phones to record the murders of these innocent Palestinians by Hamas authorities. Now, what are you doing with that? You're not holding on to that video for posterity. You are sharing it online. There are people in Gaza who do not care that they are demonstrating the bloodthirst

of the terrorists Hamas for the world to see because they know that the Greta Tunbergs of the world, the Jank Ugers of the world, the Anakasperians of the world, the Anakasperians, of the world. The Hamas apologists of the world, the Eve anglers of the world, will see that and will somehow twist it into an ill by Israel, the fault of Israel, because why they hate Jews writ large. Hamas says that they're going to prevent a security vacuum and maintain safety. Okay. Well, we see what they, what their definition of safety is, hauling innocent Palestinians into the street and shooting them in the head.

Hamas, political bureau member, Hussam Badram told the Associated Press that disarmament is totally ruled out and not negotiable. Okay. So that's sort of central to this peace plan. Here is international spokesperson of the IDF from 2017 to 2021. Jonathan Conruchas. Here's what he has to say. I see it as a ceasefire and a very important milestone, getting the hostages back. But as long as Hamas exists, as long as they have weapons, and as long as they control the Gaza Strip, then this is very little more than a ceasefire. When Hamas is dismantled of its weapons, when they no longer can threaten Israelis, when they cannot do October 7 or anything like it again, then the war will be over. Yeah. I mean, at this point, at this point, does the other side of this equation have a leg to stand on?

Hamas was given back unfettered access to the Gaza Strip and what have they started doing, shooting innocence in the head. They have no business having a voice or any sort of influence over what happens next in Gaza. It is incumbent upon the people of Palestine, the Palestinian people, to say enough is enough. And until they do, he's right, this is just a ceasefire. Until Hamas completely disarms, completely disbands, and does no longer exist as a threat to safety in the region, this is sadly nothing but a ceasefire. All right. Up next, the hostages have been released.

However, their road ahead looks very bumpy. We're going to be speaking with a family member of a release hostage to talk about what the road to recovery looks like. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Really appreciate your time. Really appreciate your commitment to joining us on the show each and every day. It means so very much. Over the weekend, I was consumed by the videos of elation and joy and celebration of families finally being reunited with their loved ones after over two years of those loved ones being held in captivity as hostages by Hamas since October 7th, 2023. And while I will be watching those videos over and over and I'm getting goosebumps just imagining hearing the cries of celebration and joy and love and relief. Relief is one of those emotions as well. I can't help but wonder about the long road ahead for recovery. After that euphoria dies down, what is left for that family and for that former hostage.

to do in order to move on in order to pick up the pieces and build a semblance of a normal life moving forward. Well, somebody who is slightly ahead of that curve right now is joining us now. Maureen Leshem, she's, Maureen Lesham, I'm sorry, her cousin Romy was held hostage for 471 days and she was released in January. Maureen, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me, Ben. But before we get into it, how were you? you feeling over the weekend when you saw families being able to have that moment that you and your family had just a few months ago i think you actually described it best i can watch those video reunions on repeat that the happiness of seeing them back in their families aren't

listening to those screams the screams of relief but i think also trauma at the same time it was just, don't, don't never, don't never lose the impact, you know, at the same time, you can't ignore, you can't ignore the weight loss, you can't ignore their eyes, their injuries, their bruises, you don't see the abuse. Because in that moment, in that moment, Maureen, when, when that reunification happens, I have to believe that you as a family member, you're not necessarily focused on the negative knock-on effects. You're focused on being able to hug your loved one and to just an expression of joy and love, the likes of which you probably have never demonstrated before in your life. It's only later on,

and that's what I was hoping you could tell me about how Romeo is doing. It's only later on when the euphoria subsides and the quiet sets in and the cameras are gone that the weight and the the mess that is caused by months and years in captivity, that's when it has to get dealt with. Absolutely. You know, at this very moment, I think all of us are just trying to absorb what's been happening in our own way. Romi endured something that I don't think any one of us can comprehend. She was shot in the arm on October 7th left without medical care.

Never once seen by Red Cross when she was released in January. Since January, she's already undergone three very, very excruciating long surgeries to restore the nerves in her arm. You know, she is surrounded by love. She's surrounded by excellent care. But like you said, now the hard work begins. And a part of that is being able to give these hostages and their families, you know, privacy, because privacy is very much. much a part of this of this healing. I think they need time to absorb. Yeah. But you know, Maureen, every person deals with trauma differently. And for some people,

it may be the healing process may involve sharing publicly. Some people want to go inward and work privately to heal others for whom that healing process involves being public and sharing their story and going out and going to groups and talking. It really depends on the person. But giving people the space to explore their trauma and deal with it in any way that works for them is essential. Absolutely. And sometimes you'll even see hostages who have been very vocal and very public and suddenly go back into being quiet. There's no right or wrong way. Yeah.

I've got to ask, you know, because you brought up the Red Cross and how they never saw Romy once while she was in captivity. what do you make of the Red Cross's victory lap that they seem to have been taking on social media celebrating the fact that they were the essential touch point bringing the hostages home? I find it very rich that for two years they were nowhere to be seen only to celebrate the fact that here they are

coming to the rescue to bring them home. One word, disgraceful. I think they're an absolute disgrace. I think they need to be shut down. it's a slap in the face to every single hostage who has been released and who still needs to be released. When I see that image of the Red Cross, then I don't know how else to describe it aside from just sheer nausea.

Yeah, it was very rich. I said, my goodness, how comfortable you must be knowing you did absolutely nothing for two years. And here you are trying to celebrate, trying to come in at the last second when you had nothing to do. You will never forget. No, no, absolutely. You know, I spoke with a number of families of hostages whose family members were released prior to this weekend.

And they said, you know, our peace will not come to us until all of the hostages have been returned. And I had some friends who were skeptical. They said, yeah, you know, if that were me, I would just be happy that my family came home and that would be it. But there's something different about the Israeli people. You know, a lot of countries would say, you know what? There's 20 of our people in captivity.

They are going to be collateral damage in this war. And that was not the case with the Israelis. Talk to me about why it was so important for the hostages to always remain front and center, even at the expense of the PR battle that Israel was losing, right? It was always about the hostages. absolutely because we value life we we love life we cherish life all life and even when the world doesn't value our life we still value life we never celebrate death we don't glorify pain and we will never ever stop fighting for every innocent person that still needs to come home

that how we are as a people have you spoken to romey since this weekend how How is she dealing with the news that every living hostage has now been returned as safely as possible? I have not spoken to Romy. I can tell you that from videos, even videos that my family sends, there is definitely she can exhale for the first time in a very, very long time. A lot of the hostages are together, a lot of the families are providing support to one another. this will definitely be a step in her healing journey for all the hostages, not just roaming. They've all repeatedly said, we need all of them to come home in order for us to truly, truly heal. Many of these hostages have seen each other in tunnels over not knowing for so many years, too.

That provides a lot of closure for them. Yeah. What were the, beyond the images of the family reunification that we saw so much of over the weekend, what were some other images that gave you joy? For me, it was Times Square in New York, watching an outpouring of love and relief from all those Jews and allies watching almost in real time as these releases were taking place. I agree. I think one of the best parts for me has been able to witness the people of Israel pour into hostage square and pour into the streets by the hundreds of thousands, just united in joy as they welcomed home, people they've never met before. You know, these nothing short of remarkable. Maureen Lesham, I thank you for joining us. I thank you for sharing your story. I thank you for sharing your pain and in this moment of celebration. I wish you and your family and Romi, the swiftest of recoveries in any way that that can happen. And I thank you again

for your time. Thank you, Ben. Thank you so much. A kidnap child whispers dark secrets from his past in a language he no longer understands. But a lost cassette will reveal the ugly truth. From Curious Cast and Blanchard House comes a cross-continental Odyssey to recover a stolen past. This is Stop Rewind, The Lost Boy, available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, wherever you find your favorite podcasts.