The Ben Mulroney Show - Honda Bails on EV Project... should our Government pull the plug on the entire industry

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Honda Bails on EV Project... should our Government pull the plug on the entire industry with Guest: Greg Layson, Automotive News Canada -Could forensic scientists soon reconstruct facial 3D images from DNA at crime scenes? with Guest: Mohit Rajhans Mediologist and Consultant, ThinkStart.ca If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Great to have you here, Alex Pearson, in for Mr. Ben Mulroney. He'll be back with us on Wednesday. Certainly, big news day today, not just do we get introduced to Mark Carney's cabinet and see what change really looks like, But we also have this news that Honda is holding plans for a $15 billion electric vehicle project for two years. And they say that this is due to a slowdown in market demand, slipping profits 24.5%

from the previous year. This is something that we caught wind of about a month ago. Right, and at the time during the election, it was like, why is Honda in the news? Why is the Nikkei reporting on Honda? And Honda and at that time Doug Ford said don't worry everything's fine right but Doug Ford is out today and he was just asked this question about what is going on with Ford here is his response still well what I've when I've talked to Honda they've promised us they're gonna

continue on with their expansion they're gonna keep that facility moving forward so we'll just see how that moves forward. But we're very confident that we'll continue producing Honda vehicles here in Ontario. We're going to hold them accountable, each auto manufacturer. Anything that we've given them, we're going to make sure that they're held accountable and

they continue manufacturing automobiles right here in Ontario. We have the best auto workers anywhere in the world. Every single plant, no matter what brand it is, we out produce our American counterparts around the world. So we have the best production lines, the

most efficient production lines, the highest quality when it comes to producing vehicles. So I encourage more companies to come here and open up. ≫ All right. But again, Ford is saying nothing to see here. Don't worry about it. But the company itself Honda, there's their company belief is that you build where there's demand and most of the demand 90% of the sales are in the United States. So this is I think

we kind of have to park it as to like what's the real story here, right? This is a company that both the feds and province put 2.5 billion in subsidies, so 5 billion, and we were told we're going to get about a thousand jobs out of it. So is there a future? Is this just putting off what the inevitable is? Let's ask someone who follows this very carefully. Of course, Greg Lason over at Automotive News Canada. Greg, we talked about this a month ago, so I appreciate you talking about it again with me today. Sure, anytime. All right, let's see, what do you say

when you hear Doug Ford and others speaking about, you know, undoing the spin on this? What's the spin as far as you're concerned? Well, here's what I wanna say first. I have confirmed with Honda and with the province of Ontario, but not yet with the feds, they have taken zero tax dollars at this time. And now here's why.

There have really been no shovels in the ground yet. While this is disappointing for the auto industry, it's not costing us taxpayers anything yet. It's been shelved for two years, which is an eternity in automotive. When you tell me something is delayed for two years, you might as well tell me it's not happening. Right.

And it is because what you said, demand is down. We're now hearing rumblings out of the United States that a lot of the Inflation Reduction Act incentives are going to be scaled back. So there'll be less demand for EVs over there. There will be less demand for EVs in Canada because we too have run out of money for incentives for electric vehicles. This

is while partly demand related, it's also tariff related. Honda is taking a beating on US tariffs moving forward about $4 billion hit according to their CEO today. So this is the perfect storm of tariffs, costing Honda money and them looking to have to cut somewhere and the waning demand for electric vehicles. Right and so there's a couple of different stories here right? Like it's once again indicative of here's a headline, lots of bravado, we get politicians taking all sorts of accolades and all these great things and then again you get the reality is no shovels go in the ground. Like that

that's the takeaway is that they announced it and nothing got done and so will it get done? What are we we have to give up given Trump next door has given up on mandates and he's going a completely opposite direction of us? Yeah, and this is what I've been saying throughout this entire tariff ordeal is that it's really easy for an automaker to make an announcement. It's really hard and even more expensive to follow through on that announcement. So while it looks good last year, grabbed headlines, was a plan, it is nothing until it is built, which is why I look at Windsor and they have built the battery plant there. There is production there. There is something happening there.

There are vehicles that need that. This was a plan that didn't come to fruition because the demand went away. And I always say this, whether it's a union contract or whether it's a proposed factory subject to market conditions. And in this case, market conditions and geopolitical conditions have changed and it's jeopardized the $15 million investment. Right. And so again, where does this announcement go?

Because we're getting these announcements out of the auto plants, right? Stellantis, they're all seeing the slowdown. And in the United States, they're also being affected by the tariffs and such. But we have a bunch of different issues that are all kind of gearing up and piling up against the auto sector. But in this country, we've got guys like Ian Lee, who are economists saying, look, you got the auto sector. But in this country, you know, we've got guys like Ian Lee, who are economists saying, look, you got to kiss this industry goodbye in this country. It's not going to ever be what it was. Right. So do you see, Greg, in your mind,

that under a Mark Carney government, let's say, because he and Doug Ford are going to have to somehow sell to the public that, yeah, these investments were all good. He's not saying he's going to reverse course on any of his climate plans. So how then do you see this going? Do you see Canada then becoming the EV place and America going the fossil fuel? Like, how does this undo itself? I see Canada as maintaining its footprint. I have never thought that we would ever see another new assembly plant in

Canada built from the ground up. I see the battery plant Windsor staying put and making batteries. I see Volkswagen trying to move forward in St. Thomas with their battery plant. I see Honda putting this on hold and continuing to build civics at least in Aliston. I am being told by some industry sources that the sentence from the Honda CEO that CRV production is moving to the United States might not Listen, I am being told by some industry sources that the sentence from, um, C or the Honda CEO that CRV production is moving to the United States might not be all it's cracked up to be that production might stay in Ontario.

So we're trying to chase that story today, but this has always been Canada trying to maintain and hold on to what it has and Donald Trump trying to take that from us. Remember, you know, I always say zero from zero is zero. None of these jobs and plans actually existed or actually exist outside of the Windsor battery plant. Everything else has been a pledge or a promise or a plan and the money hasn't been spent in all of these cases. It has been spent in Windsor.

It's planned to be spent in St. Thomas. If they ever start making batteries by the year 2030, I don't think they will because that's creeping up on us. So I think what we're going to see is sort of the auto industry take a step backwards in terms of powertrains. So there'll be internal combustion engine

and it'll be a slower crawl forward to electrification. That just means we keep the plants we have and try and fill the ones that are empty right now in Brampton and in Oakville. Yeah, but that's tough, right? It just becomes a hodgepodge and God knows if government has to put more money into it to kind of keep the appearance that everything's going to be going. And ultimately, we've got to get investment in this country. And so Greg, the question then becomes is, do we now pivot and figure out because there

are a lot of parts companies, as you know, they can't work in these environments, right? There's so much volatility and uncertainty. If you own a parts company or anything else, you're saying, I'm done. I'm changing course on this. I actually know someone who owns a small company in Windsor who is considering selling his business because of the uncertainty. You cannot plan product rollouts, product launches, new parts, two, five, seven years out which is how the auto industry operates when tariffs are looming over your head and

Donald Trump gives you a 90-day reprieve. That does nothing. 90 days might as well be zero days when he scales that back. It's just impossible to plan at this moment. And I continue to say at this moment, we're trying to hang on to what we have. Internal combustion engine isn't going anywhere. And we still build the most popular vehicles in America, right here in Canada. Everything we build is a top seller

and that bodes well for Ontario. The other thing is there isn't a lot of capacity in the United States to move many things. You're not gonna move anything from Windsor to the United States, they don't have the factory to do it. You're not gonna move anything from Toyota to the United States because they don't have the capacity to do it.

Honda moving the CRV is possible because they have room in Ohio. The Civic will stay put. It is the best Civic planet, plant on the planet, period, full stop. So it becomes a matter of just maintaining what we have in the moment. Boy, oh boy, buckle up. Uh, not going to be easy anytime soon, but I appreciate you kind of clearly laying it out.

Thanks, Greg. Anytime. There you go. That's Greg Lason and he's with Automotive News Canada. He knows it better. Thanks, Greg. Anytime. There you go, that's Greg Lason and he's with Automotive News Canada. He knows it better than anybody. And there you go. Shovels were never in the ground on this announcement.

So what did we lose? I think we've lost a lot. Great to have you here, Alex Pearson. In on the Ben Mulroney Show, he'll be back with us Wednesday. On Tuesdays, of course, we talk a lot about the big tech stories. And certainly these days days they are everywhere. And of course, bringing in our Mo'ed Rajan,

Mediologist and Consultant over at thinkstart.ca. Hi there. Alex, good day. Good day. All right. Well, we'll see if it's a good day. I mean, every day we never know what's coming at us, but certainly a lot of stuff coming up. AI startup Perplexity now talking about securing a fresh funding over at valuation, $14 billion. Not change, right? Have you used this? No, are you kidding? No, I'm like, I would, I'm still using a rotary dial phone in some parts of my life. So no, this is, I'm the perfect person to explain it. That's why you won't call me back. That's why you won't call me. That makes sense.

I leave messages on the voicemail that nobody checks anymore, but perplexity is, so I write about this quite a bit. I'm writing about this right now in something called disrupting search. What we're seeing right now in real time, Alex, is this Google monopoly starting to decrease a little bit. Or let's say, how do you say unmonopolized? How do you unmonopolize a monopoly? Whatever the case is, perplexity is now one of the biggest names that's being used right

now in the world of search. It offers a very different user experience for people who use it. It's free for most people and it's really got this amazing sort of quality about it where it gives you less of ads when it comes down to what you're searching for answers for versus what Google's become now, which is essentially becoming a shopping market to begin with. Now, it's not there yet. It's not perfect, but it's really got people wondering, you know, are we, are we heading into a world post Google for prime search? And if so, what are your options as somebody who has very specific needs when you're looking for things?

Okay. But if you're a not sophisticated user like myself, and I go off and Google, you know, who makes black shoes, like if I'm doing a basic search, what's the difference between perplexity, let's say in Google? Like, why would I go to that search instead of staying where I am? Well, the fact is, it's deceptively simple, right? So it replaces this idea of when you go on Google and you get all these blue links associated with things, you have to get through a certain layer before you get your answers. Perplexity offers you the answer first.

At least that's the promise right now. And so unlike Yahoo or MSN or Bing back in the day that all just tried to take Google's market share, perplexity is really trying to be a different way for you to search. And so Alex, let's, I'll be honest with you, you can't break it, right? And so I encourage you to go try it because there's nothing you can do wrong. It's not like you press one button and all of a sudden there's a big flash that goes across the internet saying, Alex tried something and you did it wrong. You know what I mean? It's this is something you should definitely try, especially if you're somebody who geeks out about research,

because I would love to hear your interpretation about just how easy this is starting to get. Well, you know, you bring up a good question, because certainly when you do a Google search now, you get like the AI produced stuff, the kind of a quick hit, right? But the worry I always have is, I don't know if it's accurate

and I don't know where it's being taken from. So I have to double check all that stuff too. It's very convenient. But again, we still have the same problems, Moid, where you have to continually look at the data and see if you've got extra sources to confirm. That's a great point. And what we're starting to see is that more and more of these AI search engines that are popping up, they're starting to not necessarily promise you the world. They're trying to promise you specifically what you're looking for. So there's one that's trying very desperately to be the one that can give you citations for all of your research, whereas there's other ones that are just trying to be companions that are helping you along the way

while you travel. So I think we're getting to this place where Google won't necessarily be just a one-stop shop for answers, and disrupting the search is going to be a really interesting way that people start to do business. Well, maybe. Well, certainly. But again, more and more of this stuff comes in and I'm I'm of the mind that there's going to be is there no niche market for people and customer services, stuff like that, right? People now for who are they again? I know.

Well, the people that maybe can get you answers instead of saying, sorry, did I not get your answer? Try another, try another day. The truth about it is Alex, I think that, you know, all of the different countries in the world have their own separate problems. And so if we could at least get to a place where we've got a Canadian centric one that solves our problems from coast to coast, I'd be happy

using a search like that. So slowly we'll get to a place where we don't have to rely on just one or two search engines. We'll actually just have that efficiency in our pocket. Yeah. Well, yeah. Can you imagine a time like in my time in this business and certainly people before me, you get the phone book out, you have to look for information, right? It's just changed so much. So much. It has. And the worst part about what you're saying is in some cases, you're, you know, think about applying for a job. If you apply for a job 20 years ago, your resume might still be in somebody's database. And think about the fact that AI could crawl that and pull up something and all of a sudden you've got a profile somewhere. I've been thinking a lot

about how data is being fed into these systems. And it does worry me a little bit about how it gets spit out on the other end. But it also makes me think about what opportunities lie ahead, especially here for us to do some amazing things in Canada. A hundred percent. But again, same rules. You've got to make sure that you check it, check the source and it's not always necessarily the correct or your opinion.

But the other thing, and it seems like such a simple thing when we're talking about AI and all the complexities, right? But Google has done something to its logo. I wouldn't have noticed this, but apparently it's winning with everybody. Yeah. So it's a cosmetic tweak. I'm looking at it. I'm like, what is, what am I missing?

It's it's the G logo that Google knows it's designed. It's more smooth now and it's blending sort of their colors. And it's, I gotta admit, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't figure it out. I tried. To be honest with you, I did the blind test to begin with. And I was like, why is this such a big deal? Why do people really care? But this is something that's become a little bit more of a pop culture moment, and it's a reminder that Google, in the way that it lives, is notoriously on everybody's home screen and on everybody's phone screen.

And so I think the real subtlety differences that are happening in the design are more around this idea that Google is willing to adapt and they're showing this idea that they will continue to adapt for this broader niche that they're in. They're not just that Google search engine that had that little logo on your home screen. There's somebody that's willing to update itself. Now, Alex, I think it's gimmicky. I a little bit. I think it's a little bit of a PR move. I think it's a little bit of a design geek scenario that people really fall in love with. But it'll be very interesting to see how Google starts

to evolve as we had the conversation earlier, because we were both saying that it can't be the same company as it was 20 years ago. It's being mandated by the US government right now to dismantle when it comes down to the way that they monopol years ago. It's being mandated by the US government right now to dismantle when it comes down to the way that they monopolize search. It's being changed in different countries, in fact banned in certain countries in the way that it's being used. But on the other side, it's actually creating all of the products that would perfectly integrate it into our lives. So where do we meet in the middle? Yeah, well, okay. Well, yeah, it's it's, we're in flux. Just give it a bit of time.

Meanwhile, the question becomes, and I don't know if you saw this a couple of weeks ago with this 3D image of the Titanic. Like, it's so unbelievable, and I know you saw it, but it was on the news where they've got this such realistic images of the Titanic. You actually can figure out what happened, but could forensic scientists soon reconstruct facial 3D images from DNA at a crime scene? I'm surprised this hasn't been done yet. Yeah, this is a law and order AI is what I call it. Because essentially what's happened now is that this company has created this 3D face from DNA. And so think about it from what it can do from. So again, it's funny, you mentioned earlier,

like where does this data come from and how does it end up working? Even in this case, when you have this breakthrough that can end up helping solve some crimes from hundreds of years ago, if nothing else, what you do have is the skeptical nature of, okay, well, where does this fit into legal frameworks and how will it actually feed into

all of these different databases to help people solve crimes versus become problematic when it comes down to whether this is flawless. So essentially what you have now, Alex, is the ability to take a two millimeter piece of hair and actually recreate to 85, I think it's 89% accuracy what the face would look like in 3D format. And I mean, for some people, that's wonderful for us studying their ancestors. For other people, it's going to create a very interesting side industry, let's say.

Yeah, I bet it will. Well, nonetheless, it's coming at us. We've got to figure out its role and how it can be used. I'm out of time, but I appreciate yours. Oh, Alex, always a pleasure. Have a great one. And you as well as Maui, Raj, and the meteorologist and consultant over at thinkstart.ca. So the technology's there, we'll get to it.

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