The Ben Mulroney Show - Hot Takes! Carney's friends, Ford's plane and much more!

Episode Date: April 17, 2026

GUEST:  Ashley Waters  —  co-hosting The Party Lines on The News Forum    Guest: Chris Chapin, Political Commentator, Managing Principal of Upstream Strategy If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show, and welcome back, as always, to Chris Chapin, political commentator, managing principle of upstream strategy

and spot-on doppelganger of the models that you would see at Abercrombie and Fitch in the Earth. early 2000s at the mall. Welcome, my friend. Thanks, always a pleasure. You're wearing your, not wearing the Michigan thing today.

No, today, no, I'm not trolling you this way today. Please welcome to the show. Ashley Waters, co-hosting the party lines on the news form. Ashley, welcome.

Thank you for having me. What, when somebody said, would you like to be on the show, why did you want to be here? I think that you have such a great take on hot topic. and I'd love to bring my perspective.

So I was excited to have the opportunity and join you guys today. We're glad to have you. We're very glad to have you. So we're going to come to you first. But first we want to hear a little bit of audio because apparently Donald Trump had a little bit of a raspy voice earlier today.

Here was the reason for it. Have you been negotiating a lot all day? Is that why your voice is hoarse? I've been screaming at Iranians all day, yes. A little bit of a laryngitis because of my... I've been screaming at Iranians So the one leadership you're screaming at? You know why?

Because that's the only thing they understand. They don't understand being nice. They understand the way I have to do business. I treat all people differently. Yeah, I always say he speaks a version of crazy that those people understand. It translates. They don't speak the same language, but it does translate well and they can kind of get it. But the reason I want to bring that up, Ashley, is the big.

biggest story today is the impact of the chaos in the Strait of Hormuz on the airline industry, and it's hitting air Canada with their pairing back their flights from Montreal and Toronto to New York City. That's a really big, there's a lot of traffic between those cities. And I had somebody on the show earlier who was explaining that Canada were nearly self-sufficient on airline fuel, on jet fuel. We make about 85% of our own. But we have no strategic oil reserves. And we could be selling, we're already self-sufficient. We could be a leader of selling jet fuel around the world.

So let's look at this crisis actually as an opportunity for Canada. What should we do strategically in this moment or when we come out of this chaos to make sure that the new system has Canada firmly planted in a leadership position? Right. And I think there's a lot to impact there. going from that clip to your question. And I think that's why it's such a pivotal moment in time with Mark Carney as our Prime Minister. Because having the major projects office being stood up right now, these are the sort of things that we have to push forward in order to be more sovereign.

Like you said, we have critical minerals. We can extract them. And we can really make our economy more self-sufficient. And so that things like this and wars that are happening, they're not going to end anytime soon. So how do we move past those barricades, those bottlenecks, right, when it comes to aviation? And how do we make use of what we already have here at home? I think that's all of that is great.

But it's the speed and the urgency, Chris, that I think is I'm waiting. I'm waiting on this. I was expecting lightning speed. And we're not getting that yet. We've got talking, we're not doing. Well, Ben, stop me when you've heard this before. Canada has natural resources that the world needs. Yeah.

All we have to do is pull them out of the ground. Yeah. Like it's, you know, it's evergreen on this. It's reassuring to hear that we do have that and that our airline industry can withstand the pressures of what's happening in the Middle East. But this is an opportunity that Canada needs to be seizing. And I hope now that Mark Carney has his coveted majority government, we start seeing action on these items.

Let's get pipelines built. Let's get liquefied natural gas to each, you know, the east and the west coast. Let's sell it to every jurisdiction that's begging for it. And if the rest of the world needs air, you know, jet fuel as well, let's sell it to them. I thought one of the most interesting things about this whole new story today, Ben, was just the insight that flights like Toronto to JFK, uh, Fort McMurray to Vancouver aren't profitable. You know, it's fascinating to see where the airlines are willing to take losses on, you know, maybe higher traffic flights where they need the frequency, but they don't make money.

Yeah. And, Ashley, this is a, this, Europe's going to run out of jet fuel in six weeks. That's the worst case scenario. I don't know what that does to the global economy. And if that, if there's a cascading negative effect that we are going to feel over here in Canada, I don't know that we can take any more economic, bad economic headwinds. You know, if all of a sudden their economy slows down and, and we're teetering on a recession over here, do we then fall into a recession?

And then you have to ask the question, all right, to the most progressive people, most staunch environmentalists, you've seen what happens. Some of them are going to say, that's why we have to get off fossil fuels. Okay. Okay.

But what it does say is Canada needs to be at the center of this so that we can ensure that our economy grows and by extension, our economy, everyone wins, including First Nations. but try try getting First Nations to agree that we've got to have twice as many refineries, three times as many refineries across this country that might have to be put somewhere near their land, Ashley. Well, that's the reality that we're working with, right?

Like, we can't look at the arguments of the past government, right? We're not looking at a Trudeau era. We're looking at now this new government and trying to get rid of those barriers, trying to find middle powers to work with, trying to make sure that we're working with premieres, you know, right after winning the majority, you see Mark Cardi meeting with Wob Canoe. And we're talking about Churchill and the port, right? Like those aren't conversations that were happening before.

So I think now, you know, to Chris's point, we're gonna not have an opposition that's bottlenecking as much. So anything that doesn't go forward, it will kind of rest on this government. But we have to give them that leeway to make those decisions or try to make these projects push forward and give them some time. Chris, do you think that this moment, this additional crisis,

there's the crisis of Trump that had everybody's elbows up and rolling in, you're on a team Canada, all that stuff, which was either real or felt real. But do you think this is another one of those? Like, is this another chance for Canada to come together and say, hey, guys, we got everything we need here. We just got to build it. I sure hope so, Ben. I couldn't tell you that I have a whole lot of confidence that we will, though.

Yeah. You know, we, we had a year. I mean, we were on this, I've been on the show with you, how many times when we talked about the Canada, you know, the Canada Day deadline that Mark Carney set in the last election that we were going to have all our trade barriers broken down by July 1st of last year. We're nowhere close to that, right? And so is, is a conflict in the Middle East going to all of a sudden accelerate what the trade war south of the border triggered for us as Canadians? I'm not sure. I wish it would. I think we desperately need that, you know, ignition to our economy, that kind of kick in our proverbial butt. to get going as a country. But I'm not sure. Listen, I think the prime minister has used his, his lack of a majority as an excuse for the last calendar year. He no longer has that excuse. I hope that that is what is what was holding him back.

You know, I don't believe it truly was the opposition. I think there were reasonable voices in the block and in the NDP and in the conservative party that would have moved forward real ideas if they thought it was good for the country. I'm not sure we ever saw those. And so now I'd like to think that this conflict in the Middle East and the straight-over moves

and the lack of jet fuel might kickstart our economy and make it smarten up finally. I just, you know, fool me once, fool me twice. I feel like it's the George Bush quote all over. You can't be fooled again. I love that quote. I love that quote. Ashley, to me, and I've said this many times on this show,

I don't know what your perspective is, but when it comes to politicians today, I, sure, that was a great speech. And you're getting your kudos for it. But until that speech translates, into shovels in the ground and jobs for Canadians and an uptick in our in our GDP, our productivity, all of that stuff. I'm not giving you anything but, you know, a golf clap.

Yeah. And rightfully so, right? At this point in time, I think it's nice to see these. I know nobody is in favor of majority through floor crossing, but at least it's bringing other ideologies, you know, into the mix. So if you see someone like that we just saw, Marlon Cross, right? So that's major because she understands that within her own backyard in Sarnia Lampton, there's the Petro extraction. So why not be at the seat of the table? Why not

want to be a part of that to make those solutions? And so I think when you see not only, you know, people from NDP, but also from conservatives coming over to want to have the seat at the table to, you know, push Canada forward, it's going to be a different type of government. I hope that we see and I hope that the political spin kind of stops and we really see action. And like you said, we see these major aspirations push us forward so we can stand up on our own with our economy.

Sorry. Yeah, Chris, I'm just going to say this last thing and then we're going to break. I just find it very interesting that now that he has his majority, now Mark Carney is promising to be collaborative. I think it's quite, the timing for that is perfect. All right, guys, don't go anywhere.

When we come back, we're going to take it to the province of Ontario and a scandal at 30,000 feet. Yes, you are, but we're diluting the intensity of Ben Mulroney with the cleansing tonic and the high-level IQ of my guest, Ashley and Chris. Guys, welcome, thanks for sticking around. I want to talk about Air Ford One, which is just a great,

perfect name. There was a story that, yes, in fact, the government of Ontario purchased a jet, I think they can comfortably sit 16. And I think, and the government said clearly, yeah, we bought this and here's the reason why. And we need it for travel and we travel with a lot of people. And by the way, comparing that to, say, the purchase of a whole bunch of planes, a fleet of planes by Quebec. We're doing pretty well here.

And I wanted to know, put on your strategy hats for me. Is this something that once it's explained away, it makes sense? Or is this a $15 bottle, a glass of orange juice that's going to stick? And it's $29 million. Is this something that's going to stick to this government? Ashley, you go first. I think it will. I think there's a bunch of fumbles that are happening right now with this government.

And this is just one of them because nothing says an affordability crisis. like let's go buy a plane. And also just to what we discussed with the aviation fuel. And it just doesn't make sense why all of a sudden this would be at the top of the list for them to do. You know, other premiers have used the OPP planes in the past. Like it isn't that there isn't means for them to get around. But that's my personal take. Chris, what about you?

Is this something that they're going to look, Doug Ford has a way of making, things just go away, speaks people's language. And so that could help. But this is $30 million during an affordability crisis and a jet fuel issue. Yeah, Ben, I think there's a couple factors at play here that's going to be very interesting to see how it plays out over the next couple weeks. I think there's a lot of Ontarians and just like there's a lot of Canadians that don't have an issue with our government officials, having the appropriate equipment, residences that they need to fulfill their duties. And, you know, anybody that's worked in and around politics knows, you know, especially in

Ontario, there are countless places across this province that are not easily accessible by commercial airfare and, you know, for an individual that needs to be in a lot of places, and including his cabinet ministers, at any given point in time, the ability to fly directly into smaller air strips is a huge, huge advantage. You know, there's a reason Dalton McGinty once sought to do the exact same thing Doug Ford's doing today. Is $30 million a lot of money? Yeah, of course it is. You know, could there perhaps have been a more affordable plane that they looked at? Yep, possibly. You know, I'm not going to sit here and dispute the fact that trying to argue away spending $30 million on an airplane has its challenges.

I think the one thing that frustrates me is the same reason we don't have an official residence in Ottawa is this idea that whoever actually finally pulls the plug and does it is the one who the house or the plane is being bought for. Yeah. Like this is not Doug Ford's plane. He's not taking it with him when he leaves office. That's not a $30 million jet to the Ford family, right? It's going to stay in the Ontario government's hands for the foreseeable future decades. And I think that's the part that's lost on me and I think it lost in the coverage. But that doesn't matter because emotionally there are people that are going to look at this and say, you know, I'm struggling to pay for my groceries. That's a really expensive point. And look,

I totally get how the opposition parties are leveraging this for political gain. I, I see it differently, and I see it similar to you, Chris, it's that sort of political gamesmanship that is why we don't have an official residence for our prime minister in Ottawa. And I also think, Ashley, you tell me what you think, is that they should have just announced this. They shouldn't have had the press coming to them and say, hey, can you confirm you about a plane? Yeah, we about a plane. Because then it sounds like you're defending something, as opposed to coming out and saying, we did this for the people of Ontario.

This is a moment in time where I got to be everywhere all at once. And it's going to be used for official. Set the narrative yourself. And this way, unfortunately, it looks like they're playing catch-up and trying to rewrite the story as opposed to writing it. Yeah. And I think the comms department has been hit hard, especially in the last three weeks, right? You've got the amalgamation stuff down in Niagara having to choose different chairs. You've got school board trustees.

You've got, there's so many number of things right now that they're pivoting for and the freedom of information. So when something like this comes out, the comms team has to be reactive, like you said. And they could have took a different tact and they could have said this is for security reasons. This is for efficiencies. There could have been any number of reasons why in the public side this could have been necessary. But right now it just looks like it's just adding on to all those other things that they're in crisis mode for. Okay, let's finish up this conversation with Mark Carney doing something that, honestly, that people say he's the right guy for the job because only he has a network of people around the world.

And it looks like he's leveraging it now. He's hosting a summit in Toronto in the fall. He's inviting 100 of the world's biggest investors to Toronto, making the pitch that there are lots of reasons to invest in Toronto. I think this is a very good, this is a very good PR coup for the prime minister, because Pierre Poliyev couldn't make those calls. But, and also you don't set up a summit like this. It's like in philanthropy.

If you're going to raise money, you want to make sure that you've raised the money before you've even announced what the total is so that you do not fall on your face. I have a feeling that before this even happens, he's got some buddies who are going to make some announcements. But is this all smoke and mirrors, Chris, or is this actually a good idea?

I'll take my partisan blinders off. I think it sounds like a really good idea, Ben. I think this is what a lot of Canadians voted for when they voted for Mark Carney. I think this was the promise of the central banker, Goldman Sachs, respected, you know, former bank, you know, governor of the Bank of England,

governor of the Bank of Canada. Like this is exactly what I think a lot of Canadians were expecting. I'll circle back to what I talked about earlier. I was expecting this a year ago. Yeah. You know, like what I'm not sure why we've been holding this back. It's not like we didn't need this, you know, injection of, of capital and, an economic growth in our country nine months ago when he was first elected.

So I, there's part of me that goes like, what have we been waiting for? You know, I know there's politics behind all this and I get the strategy. But it's, I don't, I couldn't argue for the life of me that bringing a hundred of some the wealthiest investors in the world to Toronto for an economic summit is a bad thing. They just cannot be bad. And I think you're spot on. There's no way the PMO hasn't lined up a few investments that they know are going to come out of this that he can crow about. So I hope that is exactly what we think it is.

Yeah. I think it's long overdue. But I, you know, kudos to the prime minister for pulling it off because it is exactly what he sold to Canadians. Yeah. And it's about time he kind of delivers on. But Ashley, I can't get around the idea that these people are the most successful investors in the world for a reason. It's not like they're going to come here and say, geez, where have you been keeping? Canada. Yeah, I can't believe this has been right under my nose the whole time and I didn't do anything.

So I'm trying to figure out what else he's going to do to supercharge this value prop. I think that's why he's the guy at the moment, right? Like after that Davos speech, after having a standing ovation, there's these powers and these people and investors that want to deal with him. Because he's able to look like he can bring the people together, whether that's floor crossing, whether that's on the world economic stage. And right now we can't really criticize the fact that we're seeing so many people leave like capital-wise. But then we have something like this where he can bring people here.

Maybe it cuts down on the red tape. Maybe we see how it can push the needle in the right direction. And so again, until it is over, I can't really criticize the lead up to it. I only see it as a positive. No, and absolutely, this is a net positive. and even if, like we said, he's the theatrics of it or a few investors, friends are saying, yeah, we'll put some money in.

It's a great thing. It's exposure for the country. But I think he's got to make a few regulatory changes between now and then to make that value prop just a little more attractive to people who say may want to help us make trillions of dollars in natural resource extraction. Ashley, Chris, thank you so much.

All the best. You have a great weekend. You're all great. We get too bad. It's Charles Barkley with Wayfair. It's outdoor season and my patio set up. That'll be ready to play. That's what Wayfar wins.

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