The Ben Mulroney Show - Hot Takes Wednesday! The glass box in Times Square. Be a goldfish!

Episode Date: May 6, 2026

Guest: Andy Gibbons, Principal at Walgate Advisory, former VP WestJet Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former senior aide to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Behind every F-35 jet is a Canadian company, horizontal tails built in Winnipeg, engine sensors from Ottawa, and stealth composite panels crafted in Loonenburg to name just a few.

Thanks to thousands of skilled Canadian workers, the F-35 aircraft is delivering unmatched capabilities for 20 Allied nations around the world. and will generate more than $15.5 billion in industrial value for Canada. This ad is sponsored by the F-35 partner team, Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman, and RTX. Learn more at www.f.f35.com slash Canada. Some gifts say, I thought of you. The best ones help you discover more.

This Mother's Day, give her something personal with ancestry DNA. Now, up to $75 off. Explore her origins and discover the journeys that made her who she is. Save today. Give her something unforgettable, thoughtful, meaningful, uniquely hers. Give more than a gift for less. Give AncestryDNA. Visit Ancestry.ca today.

Offer ends May 10th. Terms apply. Well, it's time for the Wednesday Wumble. Welcome to the jungle. It's been Mulroney here with Andy Gibbons, principal at Wallgate, and Regan wants the founder of Fratton Park. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. May I have my friend, Bonjour. Okay.

So Honda said a couple of months ago that they were putting on pause. Their $15 billion EV plant, now they are saying that that pause is permanent. And Regan, I remember a long time ago you said something that stuck with me. He said, you know, if you acknowledge that governments are going to place bets on where a particular industry is going to go, and if you believe that that is the role of the government, then you have to accept that sometimes those bets will not pay off. this is a pretty big bet to not pay off. Well, I think we should acknowledge that, Ben, you in fact do listen to me. Yes, I do.

No, no. I'm delighted by this. I agreed with you then. I agree with you today. Not every bet is going to pay off. But, I mean, if you're going to take a loss, this one stinks. Well, so I think a couple things. And first and foremost, Ben, your viewers and listeners should know that on a professional capacity,

I do work with Honda. and I have a commercial interest in ensuring that company succeeds in Canada. With respect to the news report, because Honda hasn't announced anything, and I think it should be very clear to your listeners and viewers that Honda Canada has not said anything. This was a report that came out of Japan that indicated something where Honda is headquartered that something might be happening, but there's no statement from Honda Canada. That's the first thing. The second thing is governments do make bets, but in this case, and this is the case for all of the battered,

facilities and EV infrastructure that the government was partnering with the auto sector on. None of the money's actually gone to the companies. These were commitments that were made, and money doesn't just flow from the government of Canada to these companies. The companies actually have to start the work. And in the case of Honda, the work hasn't started, unlike say Stalantis, where some of that work had started and they had stopped. I think, though, a bigger issue here, Ben, is that, you know, in Canada, Honda and Toyota, the other Japanese automaker represent roughly 75% of all of the auto production in this country. And, you know, we should do everything we can in Canada to keep these good paying jobs

and the secondary and tertiary economic spinoffs that come from having a diverse automotive supply chain because it's not only good for Ontario, but it's good for Canada. And the fact is that GM, Ford and Stalantis, the traditional automakers who suck up most of the oxygen, they are not building in Canada the way they once were. And so while the report is, I'm sure, disappointing, no money has been exchanged, one, and two, we should remember that government policy exists not in a vacuum, but in a global world. And in the case of Honda, they're fighting both an EV policy and misguided EV policy here in Canada. And the United States is doing everything he can to suck auto production south of the border. Yeah.

Andy, how do you see it? I think, you know, there's a clip that's circulating of Justin Trudeau on the day of that announcement. being very condescending to those who would have said, who said putting all your eggs in this, in the fact that the EV, the future, the EV future is here today. And the conservatives who took a little bit of issue with that were dressed down by the prime minister.

And it looks like, you know, it looks like the conservatives were right. It's hard for me to say that. I mean, where I land on it is two things are true at the same time. The tariffs are having a bite. The tariffs are taking a big bite and there's an uncertain environment around all these things. But also the government doesn't seem to have cleared up its EV mandate policy. We talked about it on the show many times, Ben, right?

Are they going to release it? Are they going to reverse it? Are they going to do a half measure? What are they going to do? And it turns out, according to Regan, I know he knows more about this than me, that it's a bit of a half measure. And they haven't really clarified what their priority is for auto manufacturing in Canada. or not. But the biggest issue that hangs over all of this is economic stability and a deal with

the United States of America. And there was media reports this week that questioned whether it was Donald Trump in the White House or the Canadian ministry that scuttled those plans for a deal. So, you know, Canada needs that economic stability. That's going to solve most of these problems. But it's kind of complicated to figure out what truly went wrong here. Is it market forces? Is it a crappy? policy or is it Donald Trump, you know, Donald Trump rearing his ugly head. It's hard to, it's hard to, you to decipher which one it is. I just think that with, you know, we're, we're staring down the barrel at $2 a liter at the pumps and people don't want to commit

fully to EVs. You know, going not all in, but putting our, ourselves behind sort of hybrids at this point could be a bridge between the two worlds, the bridge that we need, because otherwise it's just a chasm between where we are and where we want to be, Regan. Well, that's the policy that I believe, and those in the auto sector believe, makes the most sense. Right now, under the climate change policy, the government of Canada, with respect to autos, traditional non-plug-in hybrids, like the PHEV vehicles that you mentioned, Ben, are not included in the climate change calculation. Why they're not included, I'm not sure, because they are far and away, the most popular EV-type vehicle that reduces emissions relative to the traditional internal combustion

engine. And so for the government, I think they have to sort this out. I think, you know, Andy's right in terms of getting a deal started with the U.S. I have to say that, you know, President Trump has made Otto a real sticking point for his negotiations and his posture. So it remains to be seen, but the uncertainty is certainly having an impact. And, you know, it has to be said that there are workers who are no doubt affected by any announcements in the auto sector, whether it's Honda or another company. But the fact is the government has got to respond. They placed a bet.

The bet, you know, there was no money out the door. Let's be clear, as I said earlier, there's no tax dollars that went to Honda that aren't coming back. The reality is, though, the government went all in on EVs. And there was many who said, maybe the market's not going there. And it's clear because EV demand is down by 60% year over year that mark consumers, particularly those in the United States, where the bulk of the bulk of the market. of Canadian auto exports go.

In fact, I think they all go there. Again, it's Toyota or Honda. Americans aren't buying EV cars, at least not the way that people had thought they would and the way that the Biden administration, Sleepy Joe Biden had hoped they would. So it's been a real change and it remains to be seeing how this plays out. But let's remember, demand plummeted before Donald Trump

and tariffs on Canada. The other thing that's maybe notable, Ben, is this might not be true, but it feels like the government is getting caught by surprise by some of these things. And that is a little bit disturbing. What do you mean? Well, it seems like, you know, these different news reports, I can't remember all the names of the companies,

but there was Stalantis and then there's Honda today. It feels like this is news to the government, the way we're receiving the news. Oh, I see. There should be open lines of communication. If we've got a plan to invest $15 billion, maybe there's a hotline between Honda and Melania Lee. It feels like it's a little.

bit surprising. The Prime Minister is caught in the hallway and Melanie Jolie's caught in the hallway. It doesn't feel like they're in control of those relationships and those contracts. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they've known this for months. I'm not sure. But they shouldn't be, from a communications perspective, they should not appear to be taken by surprise by things like this. Yeah. We don't have a lot of time in this segment. So we're going to set this up now. And if anyone wants to jump in with a quick thought, we'll pick it up on the other end. You know, the Alberta referendum that is scheduled for. or mid-October, is Mark Carney is saying that this needs to follow the rules of the Clarity Act,

which I think is an unclear piece of legislation, but it is the law of the land. And he's coming, he's pretty firm in this. And, you know, is he, Regan, do you think he is assuming the role of Captain Canada right now? Well, I think he's doing the responsible thing, Ben. And the Prime Minister, when it comes to Alberta, as well as working with the provinces, has made great efforts to try and engage in a way that wasn't alienating them like the long national nightmare, known as Justin Trudeau, had done previously. And so I think you're seeing a turning of the page there.

Premier Smith has experimented in a couple of other interesting areas in provincial jurisdiction, like the private delivery of health care. And the Prime Minister has been relatively quiet on that. He's right that the Clarity Act is the law of the land, and that's the law that must be followed. My expectation is that he and Premier Smith will handle this responsibly as leaders. And so far we have seen that. When the Prime Minister of Canada speaks, it can tip in the scales of electoral or political justice. And so when he weighs in, he has to be mindful.

And I think thus far, he has been, generally speaking, responsible, letting the process play itself. Giving Premier Smith the oxygen she needs to lead. All right. That's your point on this. When we come back, Andy's going to tell you all the reasons why you're wrong. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulrudey show. Welcome back. Welcome back to Andy and Regan, joining us to talk politics. And we're talking about Alberta and the eventual referendum that I think is set for October 19th in that province.

Mark Carney has come out very strong in favor of strong Canadian confederation saying that the law of the land applies everywhere, including in Alberta. And that means the Clarity Act, which came in following the near loss of the country. under Jean-Cretien and they said we need a clear majority to a clear answer. That's the Clarity Act. Now, neither of those two things are clear in, I don't know what that constitutes a clear majority or a clear answer. So it's kind of opaque to me, Andy. What are your thoughts on this? Well, I just think for your listeners and for normal people, everyone always says the same thing, Ben.

Why can't our politicians just work really well together? Why can't they just be adults? Why can't they just be practical and mindful? And I think we have that in Mark Carney and Daniel Smith. Yep. So for me, Mark Carney was asked a question about will the Clarity Act apply? And of course it will apply because the Supreme Court has ruled on its validity. And it's the law of the land.

So he didn't go and give a speech and put his fingers in the pie or do anything provocative. Imagine if Justin Trudeau was prime minister today, he'd give a speech about Maple Maga and values. All this nonsense, and he would drive wed. Don't forget racist, Danny. Don't forget the racist. Racist, misogynist. Remember all those things he said? Oh, yeah.

None of that's happening. We have two adults who know that antidote to separation is a province and a federal government working together to deliver results for people. Yeah, let me. That is a good thing we need. We should talk more about. And listen, I co-sign that as well. And if you go across the country, I dare say this is the best,

environment that we've had in terms of provinces working well with a federal government in a very long time. But the elephant in the room is Donald Trump. And if you are a separatist in Alberta, you are pointing to the pipeline that got authorized with the signing of a pen by the Americans to go north-south. And meanwhile, we're still talking. We're still talking. We're still talking in Canada, granted two different countries. But it's a, that could get leveraged and weaponized pretty, I think significantly to say, look, like this country doesn't work for us. Look, we can't get this pipeline built.

Meanwhile, our partner south of the border, they, they got to it lickety split. So Regan, what do you think about that? Well, look, I think Ben, Andy said it best and I'll try and rephrase it to sound halfway intelligent as Andy. You know, the bane of separatism has always sort of been around Canada. Quebec is the most known example, but, you know, Albertans have always felt left out of the Federation over the years. Let us not forget, your father had to come in and cancel the National Energy Program

because the little potato known as Justin Trudeau. His father went in and tried to confiscate steel, expropriate the resources from that wonderful province in Alberta. And Albertans have every right to feel aggrieved when the federal government comes in and treads on their turf. The prime minister is doing, I believe, the responsible thing, as Andy says, in working with Danielle Smith. And the best way to dampen the idea of separatism is for a federal government that works for the people of Alberta. And by the way, that also applies to Quebec. You know, the time where I felt there was recently the most peace between the provinces of the federal government was under Prime Minister Harper,

who took a much different approach with the provinces than Prime Minister Carney, but you saw separatism sort of die off for a while, and the provinces felt respected. Even Dalton McGinty could do deals with Stephen Harper. And so, you know, and that guy wasn't a very good Premier. But you get my point, which is if you have a Prime Minister who treats his provincial counterparts with respect, people aren't going to feel alienated. They'll feel connected to the country.

And I think the Prime Minister, and you can see this as a bit of a thread in some of his announcements. There was an announcement I got ripped on the comments on YouTube from the keyboard worries about the sports fund that he announced in the spring update. But building national pride is obviously something this prime minister cares about because he's putting his money to it, as well as his non-monetary things, like working with the Premier of Alberta on these important issues. Well, look, the prime minister seems to be hitting out of the park, at least in certain circles with every word that comes out of his mouth.

But his supporting cast is, they do not cease to amaze me. And the newest addition to the clown car that is this cabinet, and I say that because they never come on my show, so it doesn't really matter, is the president of the Treasury Board, who upon being pushed by Jeremy Patser of Saskatchewan, conservative from a Saskatchewan committee, asked him point blank,

why is it that the expression Canada Strong, which was a centerpiece of the liberal governments, of the liberal government, why is it, their liberal campaign. Why is that everywhere on the government of Canada website when the Treasury boards policies themselves outline that that is against your rules?

Let's listen to a little bit of this exchange. This is the spring economic update. It says Canada Strong on it. Today, on the Liberal Party website, Canada Strong, $10, $25, $100, $250, $500, other. Donate, Liberal Party of Canada. Canada Strong. It's right here.

Okay. The website, your website, through the Treasury Board, is abundantly clear about what defines partisan messaging, and it says that the government of Canada is supposed to be free of partisan messaging. So why is it not free of partisan messaging? I can say that the messaging is free of partisan, and rules are being followed, and, yeah, you have a misconception.

Okay, so last week we were told, We learned, and this is great to know, Andy, that a $30 billion increase in our deficit is actually a lowering by $11 billion. And now we're being told that what we see and read with our eyes and ears and our understanding of definitions, that's misconception. So I guess, I guess you know what? When I say it's a clown car, it's because they are demonstrating to me that they have very little respect for people like me or for anyone listening. And so I don't know that people like this deserve my respect. Well, this is where the liberals falters is arrogance and hubris. And props to this MP Paxter.

The funniest part of that exchange been is he put a Saskatchewan Rough Rider sticker on the cover of his budget. So they don't know it was his. And he sounds like you could close your eyes. He's like walking in a wheat field, giving this, you know, asking his question. So props to this guy for doing this work. but it reminds me, and Regan will remember this well. Maybe he authored it. But, you know, the Canada's economic action plan in Canada's new government,

liberals used to lose their mind when official government letterhead would say Canada's new government. But this seems okay to them. I just think it's a little too cute. And, you know, it was actually Marco Mendicino, who's on another broadcast, who said, liberals need to be really careful to not strut. Yeah. I thought it was double. Well, I mean...

But Regan, why didn't he just take the L here? Why didn't he just say, you know what? Upon further review, this makes sense. And I'm going to go back and we'll get back to you. But thank you for highlighting this. Sorry. Marco Mendecino, lecturing people on peacocking and strutting, is a bridge too far even for me.

He was real. Marco had quite a time in Parliament and was maybe less the truthful to Parliament about some of his activities. That's the first thing. The second thing is, with respect to the advertising, Andy's right. We got raked over the colds with Canada's new government when we were in power. Sorry, is that Marco Mendocino at your door?

No, I don't know, but my dog's going nuts. Anybody who has the cockapoo, my dog's about 12 pounds and I think she owns the bloody street. Anyway, I'll turn it over to Andy as my dog is busy barking at the rest of the street that's walking by. I'll just say that Saskatchewan MP, that flavor saver he had on when he was grilling that liberal minister was something else. And I'll also say this. Liberals, it's a tale as old as time that liberals have co-mingled the government of Canada's interest with their own party interest. Lester Pearson did it with the flag. I'm reading Jim Coot's diaries right now when they had the clerk of the Privy Council dining and playing poker with the prime minister's principal secretary and the liberal party's national director. So this is the tale as old as time. And yes, you're right. The minister should have taken the L. But he's, you know, one minister in a cabinet where there is some real zeros. I guess I don't know what's less than a zero. They're negative integers. And I suspect the prime minister. or we'll make some changes to his cabinet later this summer. All right. I don't have a lot of time, so we're going to be really quick.

Regan, how much would it cost for you to watch every single FIFA game in a glass box in Times Square? Because somebody's getting paid 50 grand to do that. Well, I would probably do it for free on the condition that I could come on the Ben Mulrooney show and provide my commentary. Yes, that's no problem. Second question. Okay, last question. Very quick for Andy. How much would you pay to get Regan in that box?

I'd pay $1,000 on one condition. He has to be in the box with his espresso buddy from Woodbridge. All right. Guys, thank you very much. We'll talk to you soon.