The Ben Mulroney Show - Hot Topics Wednesday! Separation, SAAB and extortion in parliament?

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

Guest: Andy Gibbons, Principal at Walgate Advisory, former VP WestJet Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former senior aide to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca.cair, every style, every home. Well, it's Wednesday, and this is the time in the show where I like to put it on cruise control and hand over the reins to two people and let them do all the talking. Please welcome back to the show, as always, Andy Gibbons, principal at Walgate Advisory,

former VP at West Jedd and Regan Watts, founder of Fratton Park and former senior aide to Jim Flaherty. Guys, happy Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, Jim, Megwitch. All right, listen, things are shaping up. They're getting interesting in terms of the rules of engagement for an eventual possible referendum on separation for the province of Alberta. And our prime minister, rightly, he's the prime minister, he's weighing in. And he said a number of things.

The Clarity Act will apply to the referendum but won't apply to the planned sovereignty vote. And he said a clear majority is not 50% plus one. I wonder what you guys think, not only for this referendum, but how that will be received in Quebec. Because what's good for the goose obviously has to be good for the gander. Let's start with you, Andy. Yeah, what the prime minister said, Ben, was that this, so the question that's before Albertans this fall is asking Albertans whether or not there should be a referendum. What the prime minister and the attorney general, Sean Frazier said is the Clarity Act does not

apply to that question and will not apply to that referendum. So yes, we have a referendum, but it's a, it's a referendum on whether there should be a referendum. That's a whole other segment. Yeah. So I think the prime minister was right to clarify that. and put this into its proper category. In terms of Quebec, I mean, it's no secret that this act exists, originally written by Stephen Harper and then taken by Stefan Dion.

I need to note that. And then what the criteria is. So the prime minister is not going to be afraid to weigh in on process. The question is, is he going to weigh in on the substance of this debate and how much and where? And that's something everyone's debating and talking about in Ottawa and across the country. That's right. Yeah, Regan, you know, a lot of people. are wondering, you know, right now the numbers are not in the danger zone, but those things

can change, right? All it takes is a change in circumstance, and next thing you know, things are a lot more dicey. And if that happens, I think a lot of people are wondering who will play the role of Captain Canada. I don't know who that person is yet. Obviously, the most evident person would be our prime minister, but I don't know whether he fits the bill necessarily In 95, it was not the Prime Minister. It was Jean Charette. And so I wonder what you think on that front. Well, Ben, there's a couple of things that I want to say regarding this particular issue.

First and foremost is, the fact that we are even having this conversation in this country in 2026 around provinces wanting to leave or having a section of the population of a province wanting to leave is because in this case, the Prime Minister of Canada between 2015 and 2026, 2025, pardon me, was the long national nightmare known as Justin Trudeau. And when you spend 10 years speaking down to Albertans, speaking down and discouraging people from investing in the oil and gas sector, which is their lifeblood and the lifeblood of the country, it should be no surprise that as Albertans are want to do and is totally legitimate. And I don't agree with much of what Mr. Poliev says these days, but he did say this correctly, which is there's legitimate concerns in Alberta that need to be addressed and discussed. And so, you know, this is laid at the feet of Justin Trudeau and Katie Telford and the clown circus that was his government. And, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about this later. Stephen Gibot is leaving the Carney government and leaving the House of Commons. Thank God later this summer. And I think all of this is leading in a good, positive way towards some sense of national unity, particularly around environment and only guess.

Your question, though, is who's going to play Captain Canada? I think it remains to be seen. Premier Smith is the premier of that province. I think she has, by and large, handled this okay up to now. I think the prime minister has to be mindful of picking his thoughts. When the Prime Minister of Canada has something to say, it really should mean something. I note that the conservative leader, Mr. Polyev, has said that he and his caucus will campaign for Canada throughout the plebiscite. It's not a referendum on a referendum.

It's a plebiscite or whatever you want to call, but it's not an actual referendum question. So I think it remains to be seen in circumstances will establish who it is. But Premier Smith, I believe, is doing the right thing, which is, you know, Alberta, Anybody's been there. And Andy, I know spends a lot of time in that province for business and commercial reasons, not just the West yet, but now. It's a tense place. There are people there who have legitimate views that are angry at how Ottawa has wagged its finger at that province.

And this country feels tense. And, you know, my God, man, we got to let some air out of the ball. And people need to be heard. And that's how we keep this country together. Yeah, I agree. Oh, you want to say something? Go ahead, Andy. Yeah.

You mentioned Jean-Strea 95, Ben. And I'd love to see Pierre Polly have a member of parliament for a constituency that probably has a high percentage of separatists is to get in his minivan and travel that province every small and medium-sized town and give an absolute unvarnished defense of Canada and Alberta's place in it. I think he has a real role to play, but I also think he has an opportunity. And I think for Central Canadian media ban, and Regan's right, I do spend a lot of time in Alberta. I think they really need to relax on Daniel Smith, give her some benefit of the doubt, but also start to focus on the good that can come out of this process. Our politicians are going to have to come out and be clear about how they see Canada, how they see Alberta.

That's Stephen Harper, Rana Ambrose. Everyone has to come out and state their case and stay it eloquently and authentically, but also the people who want to separate from this country in Alberta, they're going to be exposed to and we're going to find out who they are and what they want and what motivates them. And that could be a good thing. Now, I don't think they're going to be tools down

when they lose and they will lose. But nonetheless, I think the open marketplace of ideas could be a positive thing. And I hope there can be some positive things out of it. Well, one of the positive things I think we can all agree on is that Stephen Gilbo's time in elected office is coming to a close. He's resigning.

I mean, he stepped away from the council cabinet a little while ago and his issue was this government's change in tactic as it relates to the environment and oil and gas. And I have no problem with that whatsoever. But I did want to ask, like last week there was a story of 14 liberal MPs who had written a letter and sign their name to a letter expressing frustration with this new position of the government. we've been told they come from sort of the progressive environmental wing of the party. Unfortunately, we don't know their names, even though their names are on the letter, I think that's a problem. But we're one year into this mandate, Regan.

It's entirely possible that what is starting as respectful disagreement could turn into a more significant rift. If this is the party, this is the team that Mark Carney said he could get, he could use a to achieve his goals. And if those goals include, what I hope they include, which is massive development, responsible development of our oil and gas sector, I can't see these 14 people being happy a year, two years, three years from now.

I mean, look, Tales Encourage MP signing a letter that they anonymously leaked to the media and don't put their names to it. All 14 of these MPs should get on their knees and thank Mark Carney every single day. they're sitting in the House of Commons for being able to sit there because he single-handedly, we all know this, he dragged the Liberal Party from the abyss and is now sitting in majority government situation. So for these 14 MP cowards, like, come on, give me a break. I do admire Mr.

Gubo for resigning on principle. You know, the one thing you can say about Mr. Gubo is he actually believes some of the nonsense he said and he had the courage of his convictions and has decided that he can no longer and does no longer want to sit as a member of parliament and is resigning. And at least he's got the courage to put his name to it and leave. You know, it's one thing to come to Parliament with passionate views. But, you know, Mr. Gibo, you could say his environmental views were theological to the point where it was religion. I would go so far as to say it was pathological or sociopathic pathological in terms of how ardent he stuck to it. So, you know, I don't think it's going to be a problem for the Prime Minister.

He is speaking to the center of the room on just about every policy. That's the classic liberal Prime Minister way of being. Prime Minister Kretchen perfected this. You know, Mr. Trudeau, if he had spoken to the middle of the room, he might still be Prime Minister. The problem is he was so extreme and so far left. And so what the Prime Minister is doing, I think, is sort of what Liberal Prime Ministers who've been successful have always done, which is speak to the middle of the room, because, you know, the progressives, they have Abby Lewis on the left.

But as we've discussed, the NDP is a, you know, a small petri dish of pink and purple-haired Hamas-loving activists and are certainly not an option that many Canadians are willing to kick time with. So the prime minister is speaking where we need to. Okay, stick a pin in it. We're going to stick a bit. We've got to take a break. When we come back, I'm passing the microphone to Andy. I want to hear your take on the end of the career of Stephen Gilbo.

And then we got lots more to talk to on the other side of this break. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Some crimes are so shocking. They don't just make headlines. They forever change our society. I'm Katie Ring, host of America's most infamous crimes. Each week, I take on one of the most notorious criminal cases. Each case unfolds across multiple episodes.

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Prior to the break, you listened to a soliloquy by our good friend Regan Watts. And now it's time to turn the microphone over to Andy Gibbons as he salutes the storied, the storied career of a great parliamentarian and a great Canadian, Stephen Gilbo. No, he's going to be so missed, Ben. And just to remind your listeners, when he was unveiled as the big star in 2019 by Justin Trudeau, he wasn't just anybody. And I remember seeing his name, Stephen Guibo, Stephen Guibo, I've read this name before. And if you go on to Google or chat GPT, in 2002, Stephen Gweebo was arrested at Ralph Klein's house, who was Premier of Alberta at the time, because he climbed illegally and trespass on to install solar panels onto Ralph Klein's roof. And of course, it scared the, you know what, out of Mrs. Klein.

And it was a huge incident. So he is, he is a criminal. He is a convicted criminal. He was convicted of that crime. But also, he does need a job. So if solar panel installation is something he's going to be moving into. You know, I've got a nice house in Westboro that could use some panels. But all jokes aside, Ben, this man and Catherine McKenna had put her in the same category,

did real damage to this country. Our exports did not go to markets that needed them. Our allies were let down. Catherine McKenna said in her book that her biggest regret, was that she had to treat oil companies with respect. So Sianara, it's over, and we can declare it dead. But also politically, let's recognize Mark Carney is the big winner at a Stephen Weevoux's departure. Forget the 14 signatures.

That signals to everyone in the country more than anything else that this is a middle-of-the-road prime minister. And your eco-agenda, extreme agenda, is not welcome in the government of Canada any longer. It's like Ben, when you're in a relationship and you want to end it, but you don't want to pull the trigger. And in this case, Mark Carney got the breakup and doesn't have to feel bad about it. All right. Well, let's move on to something that Mark Carney promised he was going to do. And it does seem like he is doing, he's doing a couple of things with this announcement. With this announcement that he is, and the Canada has entered into negotiations to buy Swedish-made sob, early warning aircraft technology.

He's signaling that he's putting some meat on the bone as it relates to. military procurement and getting the military the things that they need, that they have been sorely lacking for a very long time, that lends credence to his promise to defend the North because this is central to that. But it also is in keeping with his promise to diversify away from single source procurement with the Americans. However, the one wrinkle that I see here is the Royal Canadian Air Force specifically said that if they had a say, they would have picked the Boeing version.

version of this technology. And so I don't, I, there's a lot to like about this, but fundamentally, if the military tells you this is what we need, don't, don't you have to listen to them, Regan? Well, that's a big question, because the military for, well, back to your father's days, have always wanted certain toys and trinkets and equipment, and they don't always get what they want. I mean, there's a bunch of dimensions to this story, but I'll start with what I think is the underlying strategic piece for your listeners and viewers to understand, which is this purchase

comes on the back of a visit from the Swedish royal family to Canada. I commented on this show, and Andy agreed that the Swedish royal family and the Swedish delegation that came to Canada, I think it was about six months ago. It was an absolute first-class operation. And you knew something was going to come out of that because the king of Sweden came and had the minister of industry, Melanie Jolie, another giant in parliament, and I use that term loosely, reading their talking points. And so you knew a deal was coming in some regard. But the real issue here is this is Carney, the Prime Minister,

giving himself some leverage in the context of Canada-US trade negotiations. You need to signal to your counterparty that you're prepared to look in other places for materials and equipment that you need. And so that's not to say we shouldn't be buying Boeing aircraft or other aircraft for that matter or the military equipment. But it is a signal to the U.S. government that Canada does. have options in that I'm sure the military would prefer to fly Boeing. And I think in Andy, I suspect we'll say something to this effect. I think Canada has an obligation to buy

U.S. equipment given the shared security bill that we have, that we don't pay enough of, given the American expertise in this area, particularly in helping to patrol the Arctic and our borders on either side of the ocean, on both oceans. But this is about giving ourselves and sending a signal and giving ourselves some leverage with the United States, with the trade negotiations that are that are upcoming and you know it's if it wasn't a piece of equipment that the military could use we would have heard that by now so i applaud the prime minister for doing this and and let's see where it leads all right down yeah go ahead edie full credit to sob i mean they really came to the table with some serious job creation

and benefits to canada like they really came to the table sharpen their pencils and they really negotiated a good and fair deal and also it's a good we talked about this before in the show. It's a good thing foreign countries are coming here saying, we want to do business with you. We will create jobs for you. That's a good thing. The only part I'm torn about on this, Ben, is, you know, the United States has paid our security bill for decades. And if they think we should buy a certain plane as our ally, I'm, I'm kind of inclined to think that we should do so. But also Regan's right. It's not normal times. So as long as we're not poking them in the eye provocatively. But we're doing what's

right for Canada. I think that's solid ground for the Prime Minister. And today was a good day for him. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a fair analysis. I co-sign that. All right. We're going to finish up with some clarity on the Maryland Gladu floor crossing. And for those who don't remember, she is just about as

conservative as you can get. And so when we heard that she had crossed the floor, it was just weird. It was weird. It didn't make any sense. It looked craven. It looked opportunistic, and she's now talking about how this happened. And when you hear it, I think it kind of makes sense, but let's talk about it on the other side. One day I was talking to Evan Solomon. He's the minister in charge of federal economic development. And they had cut the funding for the riding by 50 percent, and they doubled the size of the writing. So I was on a

begging mission, and I said, Evan, you know, here's the great work that they've done with community futures, they've cut their funding. Do you think, you know, you could look at with your team? Is there any way they could extend their funding? And he said, sure, when are he coming over? And I looked at him and I laughed. I said, well, I didn't get a call and I don't expect I will. And he said, would you like a call? And I said, well, I think that would be a discussion worth having. So let's be clear. When she said, when he said, when he said, when are you coming over? what he meant was when are you going to join the liberal ranks so that I can turn the taps on. I mean, that's what's implied here. And if that's true, look, you guys have, Regan, you've worked in government more than I've never worked in government.

Is this how things actually happen? Because it sounds an awful lot like extortion. Well, I'm not sure it's extortion. Yeah, it's going to close. I mean, like I try to figure out what to, it's more extortion than, you know, above board. everyone gets the same thing. I'm the one government for everyone. But that's not how it works, first of all.

Second of all, the fact that Marilyn Gladu said the quiet part out loud, I'm just astonished. I mean, she is showing just how, what's the word I'm thinking? Well, most members of parliament are low-grade sociopaths, and she would fit into that bucket and how selfish she is. Getting re-elected, though, the road to re-election is often newly paved with a community center or a hockey rink or a museum or a bridge at the end of it. that's a tale as old as time.

And that doesn't matter, it doesn't matter who is in government, liberals and conservatives. Guess what? We did all those same things when I worked in the Harper government. And so this is just how it works. And it works that way in Canada, in the United States and the UK. So it's pretty normal. I'm just astonished that Marilyn Gladeau would tell that story. I think it's quite unbecoming and shows that she can't, you know, can't be trusted with secrets.

All right. Last, you've got to about 30 seconds, Andy. Have at her. Well, I feel bad for everyone on the 401 who had to endure that clip of her talking. never mind us but ben i mean trading in 10 years of your values and your political record for the community futures program is like me stop canceling my senator season tickets because i met william nilander on lakeshore boulevard it's absurd it's totally absurd she is absurd the whole thing is absurd and clearly any microphone that gets in front of her for any reason she will just talk like a canary

and tell us everything. So it's absurd. She's absurd. It's absurd. She's absurd. Full stop. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining me on this Wednesday. Have a great week. We'll see you next time.

You too. Nice to see you, Ben. healthier come from. Now, if you're...