The Ben Mulroney Show - How did Donald Trump pull off the Greatest Political Comeback of all time?

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Guests and Topics on Today's Show -How did Donald Trump pull off the Greatest Political Comeback of all time? with Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters, Founder of Chatter AI -Underestimate Trump at your own peril -In Washington for the Inauguration with Guest: Wyatt Sharpe, Host of The Wyatt Sharpe Show  If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. All right, a lot of talk about Donald Trump. But I think we got to talk about his brand and whether or not it has evolved. There's a lot of debate over

whether or not we have witnessed an evolution of Donald Trump. In 2020, he's screaming about a rigged election. He's toxic goods. But then four years later, brands come flooding back, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Musk, they're all sidling up to him, Coca Cola embraces him. But my contention is that he hasn't changed at all. That the moment has met the man rather than the man meeting the moment. And so to debate this with me, we've got Tony Chapman joining us again, host of the award winning podcast, Chatter That Matters, as well as the founder of Chatter AI. Tony, welcome back. The moment has made the man, I could have used that in my LinkedIn lead-in this morning,

you couldn't have picked a better subject to talk about than Trump the brand. It wasn't just, you know, with the insurgents on a hollow grounds, toxic. I mean, over the last four years, he's been dragged through the mud. Everybody abandoned him, there wasn't anybody. Even JD Vance had to kind of be invited back into the court. So what has happened? I couldn't agree with you more. He never once apologized, he never once, he doubled down on who he is. So the question I'm asking is why? Why is it possible that Bill Gates is now saddling up and having a three hour conversation with him? That 160 to 70 million dollars has been raised for his inauguration is coordination is what I call it

Well, I think one of the things that we have to stop doing is talking about him like he's an idiot And if you put that aside and realize he's not an idiot that they're there on on a lot of subjects He's very shrewd and on a lot of topics, he got it right a long time ago. If you can see those points, then it's easier to have this conversation. He was right about the border. He was right about it.

Now, we didn't like how he delivered the message, but he was signaling the alarm when he was coming down the escalator in Trump Tower. And nobody liked it. A lot of people lied about it. A lot of people denied it, but he was right. He got a lot of things right early on. And now, like I said, the world is meeting him where he where he always was.

So here's the issue, policies I agree with. And I've always said as a lot of his policies, I would have done if I was President United States put America first. It's his personality. I mean, this is a guy that's an alleged criminal. He's been convicted. He's had a lot of mud thrown at him. And somehow or other, major brands are willing to forgive that.

And that's the thing that we're gonna study. Not the policy, yeah, absolutely, met in the moment, it's the fact that he hasn't apologized, the fact that everybody's now going to kiss his ring, versus to say, I'm gonna stay away, you're toxic. And to me it comes down to is it us or him? Have we become a society now that our moral compasses, brands, are such that says I shouldn't be attached

to somebody that's attached to these things as a person, but because his policy and his influence on my business are doing business, his influence on my profit, I'm therefore gonna ignore my moral compass and instead chase my bottom line. Is that not what's happening? I think corporate America had to recalibrate. I think they threw themselves down one particular path of,

you know, we saw what happened with Bud Light, for example, with Dylan Mulvaney and what happened to their market cap overnight. And meanwhile, he was on the other side, calling this crazy. Now, I think that's in poor taste to refer to things like that, but that was what he did.

And they saw what happened. At other brands, the same thing happened to them. You see the reversal in policy for huge corporations on DEI. He's been banging that drum forever. The people then vote for him en masse. He wins the popular vote for the first time. He wins an overwhelming mandate.

And these people have to look at the world that they threw themselves behind and realize we're not in step with the American people. Listen, there's no question he skates where the puck is going. And I give him full credit for that. And also in sports, we've turned a blind eye to a lot of athletes that entertain us and excited us and put big numbers on the board,

even though their moral compass was corrupt, because that to us was more important. My question, though, Brian, and it's an important question for Ben. Oh, Ben. Sorry. It's OK. I'll take Brian.

I'm sorry. Ben, I see so much, every time I'm in here I look at it because I was a huge fan of your dad when he was in politics. The older I get the more I look at them. But my question is in terms of morality, do we need to consider that anymore as an organization? Because it's not just a few people. I mean, 170 million dollars, he said every tech company put a million dollars in. Major brands like General Motors and stuff. They're also gonna say then to their shareholders

and their human resource people, we are investing in an individual that is, what I would say is morally, counters what we believe is civil behavior. So how do you cross the lines? How do you defend one side versus the other? Don't they just say to themselves, you know what, we have to give up on, we make cars.

That's what we make. We don't judge the people buying them. So that's what we do. So why would we judge the person that we need to get on side for the regulation that we need, for the laws that we need, for the roads that we need. That's my point. So then you're saying we're going to focus on

our bottom line and what's strategically important to us. Yeah. And, and even though that person is not who we believe is morally how they should be in terms of representing humanity, we're okay with that. But if the if the morals of the people are different than yours, then then what like where's the line for morality, you're simply acknowledging that you got it wrong on morality. If the majority of people don't believe what you believe, then you're

not in step with the morals of the people. So as long as you have a vision of where the world should go, and you can part a path and make it easier for people to get there, it's okay who you are as an individual. Oh, I'm not saying I believe it. I'm just saying that I think that's what is happening in the states. I think it is happening in the states. But what surprises me is not the individual voter because they're standing on shifting sand and they were desperate for a better life. Yeah, they're getting overrun by so many problems. So they said, anybody that can help me get to the promised land. I get that. What I'm surprised about

are major corporations who in the past have fired athletes, canceled contracts. Look at Tiger Woods. I'm not going to have anything to do with him because I now know that he's been cheating on his wife. So I'm going to fire him even though he's... Yeah, but actually you bring up a really good point. People love a return to form, but only after we've watched them fall. The Tiger Woods story, people would not have embraced him had he not fallen so far. We love the phoenix rising from the ashes, and that is absolutely the story of Donald Trump.

It is, and America loves that comeback, but my point is major corporations, this is the first time, and I believe that they've sided with an individual, that they would say their public, their shareholders and their employees would question, why am I giving a million dollars? Help me build my business, Donald Trump,

bring business back to America, Donald Trump. I'm absolutely for America, great Donald Trump, but am I gonna give you a million dollars to get crowned today in your inauguration? That's my question. I'm talking with Tony Chapman, the host of the award-winning podcast, Chatter That Matters, and I wanna switch gears now Chapman, the host of the award winning podcast chatter that matters. And I want to switch gears now

and I want to talk buying made in America Ontario premier Doug Ford is really pushing in with the fear these these tariffs coming either on day one or later on the Canadian products be at the top of people's purchasing list and Wab canoe of Manitoba said something similar about keeping our vacation dollars here in Canada. How do we make Made in Canada, Shop in Canada, Vacation in Canada a thing?

Brian, my entire career has been based, Ben, this is gonna, I'm gonna do this the rest of my, I should wear, I'm gonna wear a name tag next time. My entire career has been based on understanding head, heart, and hands. How do people think, how do people feel, And does that translate to how they act? Very rarely does it. I've seen it focus groups. Are you environmentalists? Absolutely. Are you this? Absolutely. Going to a store, if it's two cents more, I'm

not going to pay for it. So that's the issue we got with Canada. If they put maple leaf, if they put a designation on it, but if it's a penny more, sadly the herd is going to move to affordability versus what they know is morally right in their heart. And that is that's consumerism at its best. How much of it so it doesn't matter how much we brand it how much we play on Canadians pride. We can brand it package it make it easier to buy make it more effortless to buy make it more of value and enticing to buy that's good marketing but will they buy it just because of the emotional chords very few will.

Tony thank you just for coming in again this is Ben Mulroney on the Ben Mulroney show you're probably never gonna hear from me again I love talking to you man you make me think I really appreciate it okay that was Tony Chapman the host of the award-winning podcast chatter that matters and the founder of chatter AI that MGM authorized gaming partner of the NBA has of Chatter AI. There's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sports book worth a slam dunk and authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions.

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Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back. and Gaming Ontario. change very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. Download the free CBC News app or visit cbcnews.ca. We underestimate Trump at our own risk. We sought for years in the lead up to this election, people joking he was never going to get elected again. He was only running to stay out of jail. He wasn't going to raise any money. He was only going to attract idiots to his campaign.

There was no way he would be able to cross his ceiling of support. He had a ceiling to his support. There were certain people who would never vote for him, no matter what. And all of that got turned on its head. He won the popular support, the GOP control, all three parts of

government, including the Supreme Court, and that for a generation to come. And he doesn't have the fear. He's not motivated by the fear of losing another election. He's one and done. And so he is the get shiz done president. And if I'm being honest, if I've been looking at what we as a country, what we in Canada have accomplished in the past, let's say, four years since COVID, not a lot, not a lot, a lot of talking, a lot of performance, a lot of bold talk about being the first at this and the first at that and then nothing happens.

Listen, our last segment, we said, we can't even build houses in Jasper for the people who need them. We don't do a lot. We have a government in Ottawa that for years has said they've been delivering for Canadians, delivering what? Delivering what?

And so underestimate this guy at your own risk. He is going to come in and with lightning fast executive orders, he is going to change the face of America. And a lot of people think he doesn't get a lot of things right. Well, Bill Maher admitted that Trump was right about forest management and prevention of fires. Let's listen. Remember when we had a fire when Trump was president and he came in and he said, you don't rake.

You're not raking. And I did, we all did jokes about it, but you know, we gotta get over this thing. Is he wrong usually? Yeah. But I'm not gonna, I remember when he took Ivermectin or something and then I then either Meckton which won the Nobel Prize. Right. And nobody was like that became snake oil. No. Just because Trump says it doesn't

mean it's automatically wrong. Automatically wrong. Did he have a point about that? That we don't. Of course he did. Okay. Of course he did. We get so caught up in how he delivers his message and so offended by the delivery of the message that sometimes the content gets lost. You know, on day one, when he launched his first campaign in 2016, he took aim at the porous southern border of the United States.

And we got ourselves riled up into a tizzy because he was saying politically incorrect things about people coming across the border. Rather than ask ourselves, is there a problem at the border? He was labeled a racist and a xenophobe and a misogynist because of the things he was saying. And rather than actually, you know, I don't know, go down and look at things at the border, for years the press convinced us that there was no problem there, no problem whatsoever. Turns out it was a crisis, a crisis that was being ignored because it was politically expedient for the Democrats. They could, they could score political points.

And then what happened? What happened? A full blown crisis turns out that wall, you know, I thought it was silly for years, but could it have helped? I don't know. I don't know. He's got his finger on the pulse of America. He knows what plays well with them. And for example, he's reaffirmed his commitment to declassify a number of big ticket documents. As a first step toward restoring transparency and accountability to government, we will also reverse the over classification of government documents. And in the coming days, we are going to make public remaining records relating to the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy, his brother Robert Kennedy, as well as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

and other topics of great public interest. It's all gonna be released, Uncle Sam. Yeah, and listen, I don't think that that's a throwaway line. I don't think that's a throwaway promise because he promised to do that before, in 2016, he got elected, which means he had access to these documents. I think he's read them. I think he knows what's in them. And I don't think this is just his way of, I don't know, saying thank

you to RFK for joining his team by saying he's going to declassify the secrets related to his family members assassinations. He has positioned himself as the warrior who's gonna go up against the corrupt FBI. Now, whether you agree with that or not, that's what he has said. That's how he sees the next four years,

going up against the deep state agents in the FBI, the FBI that has been weaponized against him that is not working to for the interests of Americans. And so what if in some of these documents, there is evidence that the story that we have been reciting in history books for years is not what actually happened. What if the FBI in fact played a role, minor or major, in one or some of these assassinations? You know, there were rumors that the FBI was involved. There was no secret the FBI did not have a whole lot of respect for Martin Luther King Jr.

What if these documents reveal that the FBI played a hand in his demise? I have zero evidence and I am not peddling a conspiracy theory, but he is shrewd. He is smarter than people give him credit for. He has told us he wants to dismantle the FBI. This would be a heck of a volley to weaken that organization before Cash Patel, his pick to lead the FBI, comes in and re-imagines it in the image of Donald Trump. It's not far-fetched. So I say it again, us underestimate Donald Trump at your own risk.

And if we go back to what I was saying before about Trump having his finger on the pulse of what plays well with people, the free press is reporting that on day one, his one of his executive orders that is going to get the most press is his male and female executive order that establishes government-wide the biological reality of two sexes and clearly defines male and female. And there's all sorts of addendums to that. The executive order ends the forced recitation of preferred pronouns and protects Americans first amendment right and statutory rights to recognize the biological and binary nature of sex.

Now, of course, this will get challenged in court, but what he is signaling is I don't want to get bogged down in this identity politics stuff anymore. You know, the this is an issue. First of all, it affects a small fraction of a minority of people. And yet, for some reason, the entire world has been brought to bear on the problem. And it's a it's a focal point of everyone's attention. Now you can agree with him or not. But the majority of Americans don't want to focus on this every day anymore. And this

is his way of essentially saying for the next four years, we're sticking a pin in this, we're sticking a pin in this. We're sticking a pin in this and we're going to focus on the larger problem of making America great again. Again, this is his vision, not mine. And in doing this, he is going to force governments around the world to either reaffirm their position or turn away from their position to more closely align with the United States.

That is the power of Donald Trump. That is the power of a man unafraid to govern by executive order. And this is day one, man. This is day one. We are in for an absolute roller coaster. I'll say it one last time. This is not a value judgment on Donald Trump, but underestimate him at your own risk. All eyes are on Washington, DC, as Donald Trump is set to assume the presidency for the second time to become the 47th president. And there are a few people down there, most notably Danielle Smith, who's down at the inauguration. We're going to be talking to her tomorrow,

but in anticipation of that, we're talking to a young man who I've gotten to know quite well over the past few months. He's the host of the Wyatt Sharp Show. Oh, and his name happens to be Wyatt Sharp. Wyatt, welcome to the show. Thank you, Ben. Where are you right now? I am on my way to the show. Thank you, Ben. Where are you right now? I

am on my way to the White House. You're on your way to the White House. What's the weather like down there? We've been told that for the first time in in years, the inauguration is moving indoors because of the cold. How cold is it? Yeah, it's quite cold. I mean, nothing too crazy, especially by Canadian standards. I would say like like a lot of the kind of general sentiment here is that part of it is due to Security concerns and that's why it's been moved indoors, which is of course unconfirmed But as of right now, I think people are just kind of trying to

Navigate it the best they can I mean, of course you had two had 250,000 people who were confirmed ticket holders who spent thousands of dollars just to come to Washington for this event. And then of course, now their members of Congress are getting angry constituents calling them. Yeah, you know, trying to follow up as to why that happened. A quarter million down to a quarter million down to 18,000. That's the capacity of the arena where they're going to be doing this. I can understand why people would be angry. Now when you say you're

going to the White House, give us some details on that. Yeah, well, right now I'm heading to like a studio, so to speak, where I can just do some interviews like ahead of the inauguration. And then that kind of like overlooks the White House. And then after that, I'm going to go to the actual White House after Donald Trump and Joe Biden head to the Capitol because the media situation at the Capitol is not super ideal. So we're all going to stay at the White House and just kind of be there. at the White House and just kind of be there. I mean, I got interrupted. You just say it. You say it so casually that you're going to be at the White House on the day, on inauguration day.

Do you appreciate the weight of the moment? Yeah, certainly. And one person I was talking to the other day, we were saying how easy it can be to kind of let that get away from you, because everything when you're there becomes so hectic, you're being like pulled in all sorts of directions, but It's it's even like when you're walking up to the building

It's like super intimidating in a lot of respects because you know you have all of these secret service Personnel and everything at the front and then even once they let you through it's like oh wow I'm standing In front of the White House. I'm in the White House With you know a bunch of history behind it. So yeah, no, wow, I'm standing in front of the White House. I'm in the White House with, you know, a bunch of history behind it. So yeah, no, it's it's certainly crazy. I want to give context to our listeners who don't know. I'm speaking with Wyatt Sharp, the host of the White Sharp show. This guy is 15, guys. Are you still 15?

I am. Yeah, my birthday is in two weeks. 15 years old at the White House for the inauguration, you've built an incredible career for yourself as a political pundit, political analyst, political interviewer. So this really must be catnip for you to be down there on this auspicious, important day for history. Yeah, certainly. And you know, I was just I went to the turning point, USA inaugural ball yesterday just to cover it because media

was allowed in. But it was so cool just like to see especially different people that I've interviewed before even and turning point correct me if I'm wrong is as a right leaning organization so that this must be a great celebratory night. What was the sense there? The what was the reaction that you were getting from the people you're talking to? Yeah, I mean, obviously, they're just very happy. Like they're celebrating what they've wanted to be celebrating now for

several years ever since Donald Trump left office four years ago. This was, you know, the thing that they kind of hoped would end up happening. And of course, now that it is happening, it's like, they're Super Bowl, so to speak. Yeah, you know, he's coming in, they're waiting to see whether or not the press secretary is going to do a press briefing. But it's just the like anticipation, so to speak, is in the air for what's going to be taking place over the course of the next four years. And I would say certainly everyone in Washington who's in Trump world is obviously quite excited.

DC itself, though, is obviously quite democratic. So it is interesting to see kind of the magnitude of protests and stuff that are going on. Oh really? Yeah well I mean there's been a lot of Palestinian protests which is I guess expected but even like climate protests as well people protesting the economy and that's just kind of been anywhere you go in DC there's you, a decent amount of protests. Now has the the the topic of tariffs been broached in any of your interviews? Yeah, for sure. A lot of the people I've been talking to, and not even just tariffs.

When I tell them I'm from Canada, they'll be oh, the 51st state. And so like, it's a very playful kind of atmosphere in a lot of regards. But in terms of tariffs, I would say like, I was bringing it up to a couple of people, and they said they don't think Donald Trump is actually going to move forward with it, and he's using it as just kind of a negotiating or like a messaging type of tactic. So, but again, he has, you know, made a lot of comments about it recently, and there's nothing to suggest that he won't necessarily move forward on it, maybe not as substantial as a lot of people think. But yeah, it'll be interesting to watch.

And when you go to this studio, who do you have lined up for interviews? Yeah, one of them is Brian Karam, who was like a White House correspondent or still is a White House correspondent. But over the course of the Trump administration, in particular, the last one, he had a fairly tense kind of back and forth with him and a lot of his press briefings, kind of like Jim Acosta and all of ours as well. So he's going to be coming on. And then we have some like political strategists based in the DC area and then some like surrogates from the Trump like teams, so to speak. And so lots of people just trying to navigate the day.

And then yeah, we'll have, I'm trying to see if there's any like cool inaugural events or anything that are being hosted tonight. But that seems a long way away from now. Well, Wyatt, I want to thank you for taking time out of your very busy day. You should be very proud. And I've told you this before,

I really think you should be getting high school credit for all of these trips that you take. But thank you so much for joining us and have a busy day. You should be very proud. And I've told you this before, I really think you should be getting high school credit for all of these trips that you take. But thank you so much for joining us and have a great day. Thank you, you too. Home Network is here. I love it. Discover the best shows and your favorite trusted experts all under one roof.

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