The Ben Mulroney Show - How drug addiction has become big business... at the expense of Canada's cities

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

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This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've been following the news, like really following it, you know how exhausting it can be. Politics, conflict, uncertainty, it's a lot to carry. And for many men, there's this expectation to stay calm, stay in control and not talk about how it's affecting you. But the truth is, you're allowed to feel overwhelmed.

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read you a part of an email a letter that we received here at the Ben Mulroney show and we're going to read it to you We'll talk about it for a second. And then we're gonna bring it back into context for you. So in Peterborough, Ontario, the Elizabeth Fry Society, which is a Canadian nonprofit organization dedicated to supporting women, girls, and gender diverse individuals who are involved in or at risk of becoming involved in the criminal justice system.

It's a noble cause. They have chapters all over the country. And here is a letter by the Elizabeth Fry Society's Peterborough chapter to their supporters regarding International Overdose Awareness Day. International Overdose Awareness Day. Goes, dear everybody, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah blah participants in this event need to be aware that this is not an event where we promote treatment or recovery options where as the focus

is on honoring and dignifying those we have lost it is about how we as a community can become more aware of substance use harm reduction methods for safer substance use, and of resources to cope with grief and loss. So this is about how you can consume more drugs, and if you die from consuming those drugs, how you can deal with the loss. For that reason, I ask that while you may make information surrounding treatment and recovery available should someone ask, please do not promote or make visible any programs that are focused on substance use cessation. I hope it's clear to you as it is to me. This is an organization on the frontline of working with people who are in danger of coming into the orbit of drugs. And they are devoting an entire day to talking about how we can teach people to better use drugs.

But we want to make it clear on that day, we will not be promoting anything that has to do with getting off drugs. It is it is overdose day. But at no point are we going to explore how to avoid an overdose. We are going to show you how you can enjoy your drugs. But if you happen to overdose, we're going to teach your family how to grieve their loss. This is outrageous and this is Peterborough, but let's all, I mean, if the chapter in Peterborough

is doing this, do you not think that it's probably being mirrored at their analogs around the country? And the Elizabeth Fry Society of Peterborough, this one chapter, has received approximately $1.2 million over the past four years from the feds. If Peterborough got $1.2 million, how much did Toronto get? How much did Windsor get? How much did Ottawa get? How much did Halifax get? What about Calgary or Vancouver?

Now you start seeing where we're going with this conversation. Addiction is big business. It is huge business. It's unfair to addicts, unfair to residents of Toronto who all have to deal with it. But there are people who are making, they are making bank on this. How much do these drug kits cost?

They're being given away, but they're not free to make, they're not free to buy, They're not free to put together. How much are you and I on the hook for? Now we know that between 2020 and mid 2023, Toronto spent about 33 grand on branded stickers, branded stickers for the kits, and 166,000 of them. Just to let people know, because they were so proud of their involvement, they wanted everybody including the addicts to know who to thank. And the so we know that that's

how much the stickers cost. We have no idea what the paraphernalia cost. I find that a little rich given the fact that we're you and I are on on the on the hook for paying for it. And then yesterday, we talked about Casey House, because that's where you've got those those drug delivery, what are they called the, the machines where you can just get get all the kits that you need. And by the way, I'd like to state Casey House does a lot of great work in their community, but that doesn't mean that everything Casey House does should be given a pass. They received $11.8 million in provincial funding in 2024, and $10.9 million was given out in salaries and benefits. So almost every single penny that came in from the feds

went to people running Casey House. The gray zone of addiction is an issue. Like addiction treatment is a growing industry. Some are legitimate, some aren't. But you know, we were having a conversation before the show and we were looking and comparing what we've been talking about for the past couple of days to the sort of the worst bad actor

in the history of bad actors as it relates to the opioid epidemic. The bad actor in the history of bad actors as it relates to the opioid epidemic the People who caused the opioid epidemic Purdue Pharma that makes makers of Oxycontin What what did they do? What did they do that was so bad that made us all? Hate them and want to see them all burn in a fiery pit in hell. They aggressively marketed opioids, they normalized opioids, they downplayed the risk, they made it easier for people to get. Tell me how that's different than what a lot of these government officials are doing,

as well as some of the people who are working for not-for-profits who are beneficiaries of government funds. Tell me how it's different where Purdue Pharma knew that the drugs were killing people, but they downplayed the impact. They made it easier for people to get them. How are we as the city of Toronto

doing anything differently? We are downplaying, normalizing the fact that this addiction is happening. We are not, we're trying to de-stigmify addiction. Why the hell would we de-stigmify addiction? Why the hell would we do that? It is not something to aspire to. And if somebody's in the throes of it,

we shouldn't make them feel like this is where they should be forever. It is nonsense, right? And minimizing the negative impacts, just like Purdue Pharma did. Remember when I showed you that cartoon, how you talk to kids about drug paraphernalia? And this group was urging you to compare a used syringe on the ground to a Tim's cup? Remember that? Tell me how I'm wrong.

Because this is where we are. I believe we're at a fork in the road. It's fork in the road, inflection point, call it what you will. But there is enough information out there and we are gonna keep bringing it to your attention as much as we can. There is something going on.

There is an agenda that we have not been made aware of. We the people footing the bill, we the people living in the neighborhoods where this scourge is pouring into our streets, making them less safe, making our kids feel less safe, taking something away from us as taxpayers as citizens as empathetic Torontonians who want to help our fellow Torontonian. There is an agenda at play. I don't know who's running it. I don't know what that what the end goal is. But we are on the outside looking in. And I think we at the Ben Mulroney show are doing our best to in. And I think we at the Ben Mulroney show are doing our best to bring a little sunlight into this conversation. Because for for far too long, there are there are people who have been

calling the shots and taking us down a really, really bad path. And I think at some point soon, we are going to have to Well, I think I think what's going to have to happen is an election. I think in October of next year, every single person in this city is going to have to be upset about this. They're going to have to be upset about the choices that have been made and the villainization of anybody who took issue with this aggressive pro drug agenda by the powers that be at City Hall. I want to go back to this, guys. I have to read this one more time. For that reason, I asked,

while you may make information surrounding treatment and recovery available, should someone ask, please do not promote or make visible any programs that are focused on substance use secession. It doesn't exist on overdose prevention day. Is it overdose prevention? Is that the name of it? Overdose awareness day. Yeah, we want you to be aware of it. And so, but, but, but God forbid that as part of that awareness day, we have programs, we let you know about programs that your loved one who might be in the throes

of addiction could avail themselves of to get off of drugs. No, no, no, because if they get off of drugs, they're no longer in in danger of an overdose. And today is all about overdoses. So it's either stay on drugs in the best possible way, or die trying. $1.2 million in federal funds over four years was given to this group. This is their perspective on the on the the drug crisis that we as a country are experiencing right now. One. So that is just Peterborough. And we're going to get into Peterborough after the break. We've got a lot to talk about.

We've got, we're gonna be talking with a former conservative MP and a Peterborough resident about the state of play in that town. And I'm sure that our listeners here in the city of Toronto will feel a lot of analogies between what's going on in Peterborough and going on in the City of Toronto. I hope that as we bring this information to you, it hits you as hard as it hits me.

This is a crisis happening in real time and it is preventable because it is happening due to decisions that are being made by people. We need to bring this to the fore and we need to stop them dead in their tracks. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. If people aren't sheltered, they're in our parks, they're sleeping in our subways, they're on our streets. That's not good for those individuals, it's not good for our communities. So I actually think that if you're going to come and complain, you've got to come with

solutions as well. What's not acceptable is that there are fellow Trontonians who currently are sleeping on our streets, they're in our parks, they're on our subways. They need help. They need care. They need a path forward in their lives. You're listening to the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. That was city councilor Josh Matlow. And with all due respect, I've got a lot of time for Josh. He and I have had some very spirited and friendly debates. When we speak,

we always do so with respect with one another, but that is off base. He said, you gotta come with solutions. Here's a solution. Stop handing out drug paraphernalia. Stop having Torontonians foot the bill for something we didn't vote for that is only making our streets and our shelters less safe.

And, and here's a hot take, um, Josh, and, uh, I'm more than willing to have this conversation with you. Sadly, we did reach out to Josh to come on the show to talk about these things, uh, but he, uh, had a conflict in his schedule, but, uh, here's the hot take. It is better for these people to be sleeping outside than going into the shelter system as envisioned by the progressives at City Hall. Why?

Because you're putting them in harm's way that we are paying for. I would rather they be in harm's way in a place where I'm not footing the bill and responsible. If they're gonna sleep outside and there's danger there, I don't like that. I would rather them be safe in a shelter. But if you are not gonna provide them with a safe shelter,

if you're gonna put them in a shooting gallery with drug addicts and drug dealers and all the knock on negative effects, I don't want that on my conscience. I do not want that on my soul and I don't want that on my tax bill conscience. I do not want that on my soul. And I don't want that on my tax bill. All right, that's my hot take. So before the break, we told you about this group in Peterborough

that is that is what's called it's called the Elizabeth Fry Society. And it was a bombshell email that essentially is saying on overdose awareness day, we will not talk about paths to get off of drugs, we're going to talk about how you can consume drugs safely. And we're also going to talk about how to deal with grief if your loved one dies of an overdose. We reached out to them, they didn't want to come on the show either. And so Peterborough is the focus here. But I think you can appreciate

that this is a problem across the country. We're joined now by Michelle Ferreri. She's a former conservative MP and a Peterborough resident. Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Ben. What a what a shocker. Yeah, this is and and look, you know, I sit here from Toronto and I I complain and I, I am upset about policies here. I have to believe that even though you're in Peterborough, you are hearing a lot from the Toronto perspective that applies to to your city. Oh, gosh, listen, I think I

think Peterborough has always been sort of a canary in the coal mine, we're a bit of a canary in the coal mine, we're a bit of a microcosm of the entire country. And I can tell you with certainty, like anybody who lived in Peterborough left or has come back will tell you over and over and over again, it is unrecognizable. Yeah, our downtown is unrecognizable. And you know, what does that mean? It means that you have people living on the streets slumped over. Sometimes you don't know if they're just high or if they're overdosed and dead. Right. And that has actually become normal in this city and in this country. And it is

scary for a lot of people for it. They don't want to take their kids downtown. The business owners can't do business because nobody wants to come to their business. This was the number one issue brought to my office when I was a member of parliament because it's not only inhumane, you know, it's bad economically. It destroys downtown. People have this amazing, amazing flourishing downtown, right? Like we were incredible. And now it's, it's unrecognizable, but unlike the businesses are leaving at an exponential rate. I remember just five, six, seven years ago, there were stories all over the GTA about the resurgence of Hamilton as a foodie destination.

It was a place where hipsters were open coffee shops and pizza joints. And then that got completely subsumed by the by the drug epidemic. And all that all that progress was lost. And I guess you're saying the same thing about Peterborough. 100%. And then, you know, this letter that you've put out here, I think, let's have a let's have a real conversation here, Ben, follow the money. And where what is what are you responsible for when you get tax dollars? Yeah. What is like that?

That's right. You're absolutely right. And it's like, so do you want to keep people where they are? You know, when I first stood in the House of Commons and I spoke about diversion and what was happening with these dillies or, and I use air quotes, safe supply, there's nothing safe about it. That was a marketing scheme. Yeah. These are deadly drugs that get young people addicted

because you have drug dealers taking the government funded drugs, selling them to children for a buck, a two bucks a pill. They are then now forever addicted to these opioids. And the person who's addicted, I've never met one person on the street. This is where I get so mad, Ben, and I love your heat and your hot take on this, because the people responsible for

making these policies are never out talking to the people it impacts. No, when I'm out at the shelter systems, when I'm out in the tents, when I'm out talking to people who are battling addiction, they are not happy. They don't like safe supply. They don't want to be an addict. Yeah. Well, you help and the families want intervention. Look, when you're, when, when you have a family member who's in the throes of addiction, I have been told by, by, by drug counselors, most of the time you're not talking to the person you love. You are having a conversation with the drug, with the addiction. And until you can get that person in a place where they, where they

can rest control of their own soul and their Own body and their own mind and heart That's how it's going to be and I say it every day that I heard from a drug addict on a podcast Drug addicts will take the path of least resistance each and every time and and and you've got multiple levels of government as well as not for profit agencies that take government funds who are plowing the road, finding that path of least resistance and making it easier for people to stay on drugs. And that is I don't want my my tax dollars going to that. No, you want your tax dollars to helping. Yes. A hundred percent. Who that is who we are at our core, Ben. And you know, we have amazing organizations in Peterborough that are actually helping people not just treat the addiction, but why. Yeah.

Like this is a deep disease. There's the drugs. Everybody should watch dope, tick. Everybody who doesn't understand addiction should watch dopeopeSec and how the pharmaceutical companies, and it destroyed people's lives because it was follow the money. And this has to be the core of the conversation. It's not compassionate to see somebody slumped over like a zombie on the street, okay? Yeah. Taking a, going to the bathroom. I don't want to swear on your show, but you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah, excrement in the middle of the street. And what are we doing? Now you have a letter by the very people

who are funded to help these people saying, we do not want any options for treatment and recovery on the very day where families are there to talk about their loved ones that they lost. That's like saying, I don't want the next generation. I don't, my kid or my loved one died. So I don't want anyone else to know. We want, we're pushing,

we're pushing how best to safely consume your drugs. Right? So you gotta ask why, why do you want people to safely consume the drugs? Is it because you're keeping them on drugs? And like you said, if you follow the money, we're gonna keep investigating, but is that where money is being made? I don't know, but getting them off drugs

certainly makes sure that they're not part of that ecosystem anymore. You're 100% right. It is, I see stuff like that. And I don't understand if these words had come out of executives from Purdue Pharma 15 years ago, we would be out in the streets. The 15 years ago, we would be out in the streets. The progressives in our in our cities would be out in the streets with pitchforks,

company pitchforks, private company, right? And you just hit the nail on the head. But because they're supposed to be this, you know, charity and not for profit organization, they must be good people. Yeah, yeah, they they must be good. And then by the way, they've been in control of the language here, right? They're the ones who came up with these nonsense terms of safe supply and harm reduction and all these non- and if you don't subscribe to it, then they ascribe negative motivation to you. If you don't, if you're not for harm reduction, then that clearly must mean you're for increasing the harm. Why would you want to increase the harm? Because you're not for harm reduction, then that clearly must mean you're for increasing the harm. Why would you want to increase the harm? Because you're a terrible person.

Do you know what someone said to me yesterday? I have a bombshell for you if you have time and you want to hear it. Very quickly. Yesterday, they said, I don't want to call it harm reduction. I want to call it harm production. Yeah. How much time do you have? And I can tell you something crazy. I think what? Oh, yeah, you can go can go please if it's crazy, go for it. So I went to we were one of the pilots for the safe supply program under Public Health Canada in Peterborough. Okay, so we were given the money. The group pub self published a report of how successful the

program. So I sat down and met with them because obviously I've been very vocal on this. I don't believe in giving the thing that makes people sick more of the thing that makes them sick. It makes no sense to me, especially through tax dollars, which you've hit the nail on the head. I go in and I have a meeting with them. I believe that some of these people have very good intentions. They actually want to help people, but they can't see in front of their face because they can't handle people suffering or their enablers or I don't even know. We could go into the psychology in a different time. So I sit

at the table and they show me this report, they tell me that it's such a successful program. And I said, do you not think the fact that it's self published as a conflict of interest? No, not at all. So we go on and on. And my big thing always when I was Member of Parliament was okay, if I give you a million dollars, and a magic wand, what's your solution? Like no limits? What would you do? And they turned to me and said, legalize fentanyl. Jesus. Like, and that's the type of people you're dealing with. Yeah. And so crazy. So just replace legalized fentanyl with subsidized Oxycontin. And you've got the the villain from Purdue Pharma is now sitting opposite you. Michelle Ferrari, thank you so much for being here for this

conversation. We're not done with this by a long shot so I hope you come back sometime soon. Thanks Ben for talking about it. It's really important. The new BeMo VI Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks. More points. More flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. And then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BeMo VI Porter MasterCard and get up to $2,400

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by asking Alexa to play the podcast crime beat. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And all morning we have been talking about what is increasingly becoming clear to me of an agenda driven, ideologically focused, pro drug mission by progressives, not just in the city of Toronto, but clear across this country. To get as many drugs in the hands of as many people as possible, to what end? I have no clue. But now it's time to turn the phones over to you and see what you think about the lay of the land as we see it. I'm going to start with George. George, welcome.

Good morning, Ben. I mean, we've been talking about this for over a decade now. Remember when, you know, concerned citizens brought this up and it wouldn't be a good idea? We were called, we were told we're not inclusive. You guys are bigots, you're racist. And now, you know, the decade goes by. Look at the past that these people that we voted for, we put in position, the path they're taking us down. You know, you're calling it agenda. You're calling it, you sound like a little bit of a conspiracy theorist, you know? Now you're starting to see the light. And you, like one more thing. And I'll let you comment. You know where this thing started? You know, when you take out the Lord's Prayer from school, when you remove the light, you replace it with darkness. That's the agenda.

Well, thank you. Listen, thank you very much for the call. I appreciate it. And I don't know if there's a line between that and where we are. And look, I will give you my honest take because I've been I've been very honest about this. When I heard that British Columbia was going to be pursuing their a version of what's called the Portuguese model, which allows for the legalization of almost every street drug. But it comes with a commensurate investment in a diversionary new pathway, where if you are caught with any of these drugs, you are given a ticket and you're diverted into into essentially a mode of justice geared towards rehabilitation.

And what happened in in in Portugal is after a year there was an initial uptick in drug use, and then it fell precipitously with people not getting records for possession. They weren't getting they weren't gumming up the courts. It was a success by most metrics. British Columbia didn't do any of that. They just legalize the drugs and you got Thunderdome. So I quickly turned my back on that. But I wanted you to know where I was coming from. Hey, Steve, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you? Well, thanks. I'm well, thanks. Oh, not too bad. Yeah, I just want to touch on the part that I got a buddy in Peterbo fire and they say they have these, these tiny homes that homeless and jargon came in some stuff.

Yeah. And they have a light that they flick on when they're doing drugs. And if it doesn't go out a certain time, they, they call in their procedure, call an animal for their overdose. So, so, so, okay, hold on, let me see. I got this straight. So you're saying that they got these tiny homes that they give away to the homeless. And when they are doing drugs, they flick on a light to let people know I'm getting my fix. And if the light doesn't turn off at a certain point, that is proof that they probably overdosed.

Otherwise they would have turned off the light. Yeah, exactly. And then they go in there and see what's going on. And then they have to go through the procedures. But what this is, Steve, this is the normalization of something that should never be considered normal. It is not dignity.

It is not respectful to look at a fellow human being who is suffering and say, this is your choice and we want you to live proudly in the choices you've made. That is an abdication of empathy. It is a failure, it is a moral failure, and it is a policy failure that we are experiencing across this country.

I wanna thank you very much for your call. And let's turn now to Darrell. Darrell, thanks so much for calling. Good morning, Ben, how are you? I'm well, thank you. Good, I think it's a little bit of a false equivalency that you're speaking on. And it's not huge, but addiction is not a moral

failing. No, no, no, no, no, I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I know, I said it was a moral failing of people looking at the addict and saying this is your choice. And I respect it. But it isn't even an addict's choice. It is an addict. Addiction is not a choice. Oh, I agree with you. We're we're at the ad. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. So the argument that if I please

correct me if I'm wrong, the argument you're making is that is that basically the people, the taxpayers are being taken for a ride and are being fed a false line when it comes to what harm reduction is actually doing and why it's why it's there. Is that correct? That's that's my contention. Well, harm reduction is a proven method to keep people from dying. It isn't necessarily a punting the ball. Sure. It's punting the ball. And we are not doing and it only works if you have the commensurate resources to make sure that while they are while we are saving their life,

we're making sure that they don't die. Today, there is somewhere for them to go to get the resources they need to get off of drugs. But we're not doing that at scale yet, or even coming close to it. Absolutely not. So governments are wonderful. Regardless of the strike, governments are wonderful at saying, hey, let's help people. And then they don't follow through. So if you're not gonna offer that, then all you're doing is postponing the inevitable and the taxpayer should not be footing the bill for that.

If you do not have a plan to help these people giving them a roadmap to recovery, then the taxpayer should not be funding drug addiction. Well, we're funding it through law enforcement and through medical treatment anyways, if they overdose and they die on our streets. So it is less expensive to help keep them alive, regardless of the state of their drug usage.

Well, that I can't speak to, but again, we go back to what is moral and what is just and what is right. And it is not moral to keep to help somebody stay addicted. But I've got to listen, I really appreciate the conversation. I'm glad you brought in some points that we could go back and forth on. And I think I got time for a line for we're gonna go with Lance Lance, I think you're gonna have the last word here.

Yeah, hi, good morning, bad. Thanks for taking my call today. I happen to be a counselor in one of the little townships that fall within Peterborough County. So I just thought as a kind of a politician and I'm, you know, actively following what happens in, in the city of Peterborough. If you can make your point in about 15 seconds. Sure, so there's the cyclical that happens across Canada where there's a correlation between homelessness, housing, mental health, and addiction. So you see that all across Canada. I think the biggest issue that we're having

is that municipalities and cities are rezoning what was originally originally the applications are for. Yeah, I gotta run. I'm sorry about that. Hey, thanks so much. I'm more to come on the Ben Mulroney show. and I'm gunning for you. You're my number one target. Who can you trust when everyone's watching? Game on, baby. Big Brother, all new Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays on global.

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