The Ben Mulroney Show - How easy it to get drug kits in Toronto? Home delivery! Does the province approve?

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

- "Unboxing" of drug kits provided by the city of Toronto If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you for joining us on this Tuesday, July 22nd. We have a lot of news to get to today. Normally I would back us into the show with, with, you know, some stories of what I was up to yesterday, but we got to jump right in. As you know, yesterday, the, the, the news du jour, the headline that consumed so much of our time, energy and passion was of the 14 year old who had stabbed and killed a 71 year old grandmother who was unloading groceries out of her

car. He wanted her car. She didn't want to give him her car. So he stabbed her to death. And then he went on to social media and admitted as much he was arrested. Let's also not forget that he let everybody know what his name and face were. But we can't talk about those things because he's 14 So we have to pretend like that stuff doesn't exist well yesterday he made his first a court appearance obviously in youth court and The he was in custody at 14 division he appeared via video

He was wearing an orange jumpsuit Answered the justice of the piece's questions curtly saying he understood the charges against him. The court said his parents had been notified in a list of people he was not allowed to contact was read into the record. The crown is seeking detention on all grounds, but the accused will need a special bail hearing. 10 bucks says we know how that one's going to end. His lawyer was present. They had not spoken about the incident. The matter was adjourned for a week. And let's also remember this was a, what police are describing as a random unprovoked attack. This happened on Thursday.

And so at the very least, the wheels of justice seemed to be moving quickly. It happened on Thursday. He's been arrested and he's been already had his first court hearing. And despite the the videos, and the fact that he was very, very open about who he is and what his name is and what his face looks like and why he did what he did. We can't talk about any of that. Because the Youth Criminal Justice act protects him from from that because I guess as a 14 year old, that makes the death of this 71 year old woman somehow lesser or easier for us as a community to swallow and more importantly, easier for her family to take because he's so young. and he didn't understand what he was

doing, even though I personally think none of that matters. And none of that matters because she's just as dead as if an 18 year old had done that. And a reminder of how this worked. He has been charged with second degree murder. If he is convicted, a youth sentenced under the youth criminal justice act for second degree murder. If he is convicted, a youth sentenced under the Youth Criminal Justice Act for second degree murder faces up to seven years maximum, seven years with no more than four of those years in custody and the rest supervised in the community, the same community where he went

and stabbed this woman to death. So that's gotta be a really a great feeling for the community to know that no matter what happens here in a best case scenario, this young murderer, alleged murderer, will be out, he will be out by the time he's 18. Yeah, so there you go. If the Crown successfully obtains an adult sentence, which the Supreme Court has now made even less likely with their two decisions that they rendered on Friday.

But if they're able to successfully obtain an adult sentence, the youth receives a life sentence with parole eligibility after five to seven years, which again is to me bananas. Like the fact that you have the hope, just the hope. Cause let's, again, I have to go back to the victims of these crimes. I don't know why we don't look at this from the perspective of the victims.

Cause apparently I guess the way it goes is it would be cruel not to offer hope to somebody who is in prison. It'd be cruel and unusual punishment to make sure for the idea that they need to rot in a prison cell for what they've done. But I keep going back to the other side of the equation. If they're eligible for parole in five to seven years,

what that means is in the lead up to that five year part, let's say they're eligible in five years, the family starts having to feel the anxiety that this person has a shot at walking the streets again. And then they have to put themselves in a position to go remind the court, remind the parole board why this person should stay in prison. The onus is now on the victim to be

re-traumatized to feel that pain again, to open up that wound that by the way, those wounds don't heal ever, but it gets reopened. So they have to go in front of the parole board and they've got to say, Hey, just a reminder, this guy came and stabbed my grandmother and now she, and she's still dead. And here's been the knock on effect in our lives. Here's how we haven't been able to move on. And they have to repeat that every time this person's parole hearing comes back up. So you tell me where the cruel and unusual punishment is. Because in my estimation, the cruel and unusual punishment is the re-traraumatization of the family that lost their grandmother. Sorry, not sorry. That's how I see it. Tell me I'm wrong.

Yesterday, I was trying to make my way home, typically from this place. When I leave here, it takes me anywhere between 15 and 25 minutes to get home. here. It takes me anywhere between 15 and 25 minutes to get home. Depending on any number of things, traffic, there's construction at every turn on my way home, I would say look, I have to count 1234. There's six, six or seven different construction sites between where I am now and my home. And so that can that can slow things down. And yesterday I was warned that the K-pop superband Blackpink was in town, which was causing even more,

even more busyness downtown. So I had to make, take a circuitous route home, but right when I was almost home, I found that the bridge that connects where I was to where I needed to go was closed. And it's, it's the St. Clair Avenue bridge over the ravine. That is right off of St. Clair takes you from St. Clair right to Mount Pleasant and straight shot downtown if you need to go downtown or, or make your way up north, it was closed, which I thought was really weird. So I had to do this

huge loop where I had to essentially go two, two kilometers north to then loop back around. And that's not a big deal, but it was, it was the end of a very long, right. It took me about an hour to get home yesterday. Why was this, uh, bridge closed? I was like, I thought maybe there was a car accident on the road because I saw a car there. No, no, no, no. There was a fire underneath in the ravine that caused this closure. So there was an encampment, a homeless encampment, a few hundred feet below in the ravine that led to a fire that caused the police to close it down for fear of structural damage to the bridge. And look, I get I get closing it for for fear that there might be a problem. But we checked this morning and according to Google maps, it's still closed because they don't know

if the fire damaged the bridge in a serious way. I've been on this bridge. This bridge was built to last. This bridge was built, I don't know, a hundred years ago, 80 years ago. It's made of concrete and steel. And I don't know how big of a fire was down there, but the images from the Toronto Star article

suggest that it was a small fire. I have no idea how hot this fire needed to burn to cause structural damage to the steel underpinnings of the bridge. But I guess they're erring on the side of caution. But this leads into the discussion that we are gonna have in our next segment. Because look, not all homeless people abuse drugs

and not all drug addicts are homeless. But if you look at the Venn diagrams of those two groups, there is overlap. It's just the reality that some abuse drugs and those of those some some are homeless. And the question we have, which we're going to explore in depth over the next, I guess, 45 minutes or so is how easy is it to get your hands on needles, crack pipes and the like, in the city of Toronto with supervised consumption sites, under

pressure with new rules on the table where we're digging into what is really going on. And here's the question. Are harm reduction efforts helping or hurting? This is a very big conversation. We want you to pay attention. We want you to join in when I tell you to give us a call that's coming up next right here on the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And thank you so much for joining us in what is a very important conversation about this city and how we treat those who are the most vulnerable. I think, you know, we always hear you can you know

a lot about the values of a society based on how they treat their prisoners, for example. And I like to expand that, you know a lot about the values of a city based on how we treat those who need our help the most. And at the top of most people's list has always been our homeless population. You know, Toronto, the good, right? This, we always view ourselves as sort of this wonderfully empathetic, embracing city that

even those who quote unquote fall through the cracks, we take care of them. Right. And so, but, but there's another volley to that. There's another side to the homeless issue. There's also the issue of how do we treat those who have fallen into the despair of drug addiction. Right. And over the course of the past few years, there has been this ever evolving language around drug addiction. You know, it would start with addiction services, it started with needle exchange,

which then became safe injection sites to safe consumption sites to harm reduction. And now we're shifting based on provincial priorities to heart hubs, which we'll get into in a moment. And you can see that the transition of language has made it more vague, more nebulous, more hard to understand. So let's clear it up. Ontario committed to closing 10 consumption sites, especially those within 200 meters of schools and daycare centers by the end of March of this year. And they were being replaced by 19 new homelessness and addiction recovery treatment hubs. So heart hubs in Toronto, focusing on recovery, housing and services.

But here's the rub, here's the rub which has pitted various factions against each other. They do not provide supervised consumption, safe supply, or needle exchange. Or do they? And that's the conversation we're going to have right now. And we're going to have it with Amy from the New Toronto Initiative. Amy, thank you so much for joining us. And just so people who are watching this know that Amy is here to share her story and not her face or her name. So Amy, thank you so much for being here.

Hi, Ben. Thank you so much for having us and for having this important, very important discussion. So you reached out to us. I did. With some pretty important information. What compelled you to reach out to the show? So about six months ago,

I was completely and utterly blindsided when the discussion of putting a shelter on a residential street in South Etobicoke happened because I have family that will live directly across the street from the shelter. The first thing that I did was I reached out to the engagement team that had been commissioned by the city and the first question that I asked them was, will this be a safe injection site? And I was told unequivocally, absolutely not.

This will not have safe injection. It's for the homeless. There's nothing to worry about here. And we hear that all the time. We heard it just recently in a conversation over another, I believe another site where they're like, no, homeless shelters are where the homeless hang their hats. It's where they find respite from the cold, cruel world outdoors. This is not what you were complaining about is something that is not this. Exactly. So that was meant to pacify me.

And I'm sure a lot of other people who made the call as well, because that was my main concern. Would we have people with needles? Would we have this street life on this small residential quiet street next to a senior's home and sandwiched between two primary schools.

And at the end of the street, there's a little waiting area and a kids park called Tiny Tot Town. I didn't want needles around Tiny Tot Town. That's where I spent my childhood. I mean, right? I mean, it's called Tiny Tot Town. Tiny Tot Town.

And there is a fear that this homeless shelter would give way to needles and crack pipes and syringes, all that stuff. And the fact that it has such a beautifully cartoonish name is almost kind of perfect. And so, but you're always told, no, of course not. Of course not. But there's also the added shame on you for doing that.

You're a nimby, you don't want this in your neighborhood. We should be caring. Again, what I said off the top, Toronto the good. We need to be taking care of those who need that help and you are in the way. Exactly, and I was told we would have a harm reduction site here. We would have wraparound services as a term that was used

and harm reduction. So I started, I thought that sounds great. Who doesn't want harm reduction? It sounds so nice. I want those people to get help. So I started looking into harm reduction. And what I found was the onion layers peeled back very, very, very quickly because what I found was shocking to me.

And maybe I'm just living under a rock, but I thought that it was gonna be overdose kits. Preventing overdose. Yeah, and by the way, you got your hands on, tell me, tell me what you sent us. Well, Ben, now that you've asked, I sent you a little goodie bag with an assortment of things that you can find at pretty well any harm reduction site. Yeah. Um, it includes crack pipes. It includes. Well, let's hear this for, first of all, it's got what you expected. What you said, you've got the naloxone. This is the very important, very important. This is the thing that you're

Yeah, so it's you know, it's a it's a red kit. It looks like it looks like something that you would get at a hospital. And it's this is designed to help with an overdose. Like if somebody who has an overdose, obviously, they're not gonna be the ones administering it. But this is this is that very useful kit for somebody who is like has a overdose of fentanyl or heroin or that sort of thing. So that's great. But there's so much more.

There's so much more in this goodie bag. And I'm gonna move over here. And wait, Ben, there's more. Yes, there is more. So, I mean, these, like you can hear it. There's glass in here. Why is there glass in here? Because there are bowl pipes.

Bowl pipes, Ben, are used for smoking meth or crack. Here, let me get this out here. Here it is. Yeah. I mean, I've never in my life held one of these before. You have now. And the fact that this is going, and who's handing these out? Over 100 distribution sites in the city of Toronto.

Okay. So they're not, here's the key. They're not supposed to be doing that, right? They're not supposed to be doing that. This is, so this, this bowl pipe, this is, you told me earlier, this is supposed to be for, this is for meth and crack. But mostly meth because the cool kids do math. Yep. Okay. Mostly math. Now there's also these right, these straight pipes, these glass pipes in here. These are the ones that are typically for crack. Yes. Okay. And there's two of them in this one. This is Chasing the Dragon Harm Reduction Info and Foil Kit.

Contents property of Queen West Community Health Center. That's this one right here. Yeah. Okay. Chasing the Dragon. It's got a lovely cartoon dragon here. If you're a kid, there's lots of color here and it's kind of a cool dragon. It's kind of a cool dragon there. Infographics are important, Ben,

because we are visual learners, some of us. What's in the kit? Four pieces of, Ben, because we are visual learners, some of us. What's in the kit? Four pieces of smoking foil, two stems to inhale vapor, one cooker, matches, condoms, info, and a feedback card to let us know, how did we do today as we provided you with everything, almost everything you need to get high?

So that's, there's so many of them here. I've got enough. Oh, here's a, here's a flyer that I guess was provided by the the same the same organization called safer crystal meth smoking, how to prepare your meth pipe. And it gives you the supplies safer crystal meth smoking tips, avoid smoking alone, start low, go slow, know the source of your drugs, avoid mixing substances, have condoms and lube with you. You may want to have sex while high. Yeah. Mouth care, helping combining substances can be dangerous. I would suggest that smoking meth on its own could be dangerous, but call

me crazy. Oh, and also at the end, don't use alone, bring naloxone. Save yourself or a friend. Well, that's a healthy tip right there. So Ben, let's try to reiterate here that there are five supervised consumption treatment centers in Toronto. Yeah. And this is where these things,

we know that these have been handed out there. Yeah. But some of them- Yeah, exactly, they're supposed to be handed out there. We've got Fred Victor Center, Parkdale queen street health, Casey house, and Moss park consumption and treatment service. And, but however, we're learning. And you, you, you said, you gave this to me, uh, Mike is there's that they're offering a mobile delivery service for all of this stuff. So crack pipe, it's Uber crack pipe. So even though it is specifically,

this stuff is supposed to be circumscribed to these five locations. The city has decided that they're circumventing that by offering mobile delivery. 20 to 40 minutes. 20 to 40 minutes. The mobile outreach program delivers harm reduction materials and resources to people who use drugs

and live in our catchment area. And our catchment areas, Eglinton Avenue to the north, Lake Ontario to the south, uh, Victoria park to the east and the dawn Valley parkway to the west. And this is so even though you're supposed to be, they're only supposed to be giving this stuff out in these five places. And let's not forget, there was an election, a provincial election on this and a one party won by saying they didn't want any more of this stuff. The city seems to be saying, we don't care. We don't care.

We're going to do what we want here. We have decided that we on our self-righteous crusade are going to say, we don't care what the will of the people was here. And we don't care about tiny toon town or whatever it was called. Tiny tot town. Tiny tot town. We are going to make sure that people who say they want these things

are gonna be able to get these things. We've got, I mean, this is, and by the way, there's so much more here. I wish we've got condoms and syringes that you say are handed out like, this is like, I mean, if this were candy at Halloween, this house that hands this stuff out is the best house around

because they're handing out the big candy bars. So Ben, in the shelters, so they're opening up six of these shelters currently, six have been chosen. The 66 Third Street site is the one that sort of brought me into this discussion. All of these shelters will offer harm reduction. It's not just for residents.

Anyone can walk up to the door and can gain these supplies. So this idea that these homeless shelters are just gonna be a place where people hang their hats and put their heads down at night, it's a fallacy. It's a lie. It's not true. It's a place where you will be able to readily get all, anything you need to consume the drugs

that once those paraphernalia ends up on the street makes life unsafe for everybody. We are going to continue this conversation after the break. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. We're having a very important conversation about what is happening on the streets of the City of Toronto, where the province of Ontario

made it clear that there was no place for safe consumption, for the consumption of drugs anywhere near schools and daycare centres. And instead what we've noticed is the rise of the use of drugs and the giving out of all the materials that you need to do drugs in homeless shelters across this city. And this is a very sophisticated push by, I have to think, you know, a certain type of person that wants to see this everywhere.

There is a flyer that's being handed out by the Peterborough public health organization. I have to assume that there's a very similar one in Toronto that says when a child asks, why are there needles on the ground? And you can see it right here. It's a, it's a cartoon. The person who left the needle there likely did not leave it there to hurt anyone. Sometimes they drop things by accident. Sometimes people don't know where to put them. It isn't safe to leave needles on the ground though. Thanks for telling me so I can pick it up safely.

Sometimes people throw their wrappers or coffee cups on the ground too. They are comparing throwing away a hypodermic needle that could be dangerous and it could lead to illness to a Tim's cup, right? And in the mind of a kid, you're trying to make them one and the same. This conversation could not be taking place were it not for our guest Amy. She's from the new Toronto initiative and she opened this Pandora's box for us. Look, this is an important conversation for a number of reasons. We've got a homeless population that has exploded in this city. In 2021, it was about 7,300 people.

Today it's over 15,000. It has doubled in the city of Toronto. So many of the people who avail themselves of homeless shelters are migrants. They are refugees. They come from war torn countries. They do not come here addicted to drugs. And if you are telling us that in homeless shelters, it is now open season for people to consume drugs at their leisure, then you are putting people who never had any interaction with drugs right next to people who do.

Is it possible that they could, that these refugees, these people who just came here for opportunity are now being put at risk by policies of the city of Toronto? I think it's fair to say absolutely, fricking, lutely. So let's bring Amy back into the conversation. Amy, thank you so much for being here. This should be shocking to a lot of people. You know, it these these

two worlds should not be colliding. And yet it seems like in the face of public outcry, there are certain people at the city of Toronto, they're saying, we don't care, we are going to hand this stuff out with impunity, the rules be damned. So all of this comes from a position, it started really in the 80s with a response to the AIDS crisis, and the AIDS epidemic. We started giving out condoms and the needle exchanges. And I think those things, and to a certain extent, all this harm reduction stuff, does

have a place. There are people that are addicted. When we closed down, or when Ford closed down a lot of the supervised sort of injection sites, he did so, I think, with a good heart. He wanted to keep the parks free for families. But when we start sort of, when we don't replace it with something that actually gives treatment, there are four pillars to treatment. Harm reduction is only one of them.

And it seems like we are ignoring the other four. When I would go to these centers and pick up this harm reduction kit, these supplies, I would actually ask how long is the wait for treatment? Yeah. Not one person could tell me that. And I've went to about six different centres. Not one brochure was there to tell me how to get off the drugs if I needed to, but there were

plenty that told me how to use it. Of course. And these are in the shelters. They're going into 20 shelters across Toronto. If you're getting a shelter, if your name is announced, be aware of this because it's actually being brought home to your street. They will have community rooms in each shelter.

And I was told, oh, a community room. What's that for? Well, it's for your community. We'll have chair yoga. We'll have all kinds of nice things. You can even host your kids birthday party in our community rooms. Don't grab the wrong goodie bag on the way out, kids. We have to laugh a little bit because it is so tragic.

It's ridiculous. It is so tragic. And look, Toronto has announced six new permanent shelters. It would be lovely to believe that those new permanent shelters are where people can go to get out of the cold, to get a good night's sleep and a good meal. But what we are increasingly learning is this is a place where you will be able to get everything you need to do drugs within the halls of that place or outside that place. And so this is, as far as I'm concerned, it's the exact same thing as opening up a safe injection site. It's worse because there is no supervision. You can't actually use the drugs on property, which means that it is going to be forced into the community, to the parks, the school grounds, everywhere that they can congregate,

they will find because they can't do it inside. Now, you mentioned that the Ford government, you said, you know, the best of intentions. And I think those heart hubs that we talked about earlier, homelessness, addiction, recovery and treatment hubs, where no drugs are supposed to be consumed. And in fact, all those other things are supposed to take place, recovery and treatment are supposed to be consumed. And in fact, all those other things are supposed to take

place. Recovery and treatment are supposed to take place. I mean, that, that to me is, is a step in the right direction. Is it, is it the whole answer? Probably not, but it's a step in the right direction. And so, so we, we reached out to them for, for a very specific reason. I think a lot of our viewers and listeners will remember the vending machine that offered up all of this stuff in British Columbia that went viral on social media

a few months ago. Well, it turns out there are two of them at Casey House here in Toronto. They're called sassy machines. I mean, if you've ever, I mean, that's like calling a crack pipe a fun pipe, right? Or a fun tube. It normalizes something that shouldn't be normal.

There are two of them on property there. And just for, for reference, Casey house is, is, is a, is a, really has been an asset to the community for years. I think they do a lot of great work there that they get $11.8 million in provincial funding. That was last year. That, that amounts to 78% of their operating budget. They installed two of these sassy machines. And we called the Ministry of Mental Health and Addiction.

They had no idea that that had even happened. They had no idea they were gobsmacked. They were floored. Mike, would you agree gobsmacked is the word to use? They were stunned. Yeah. I think they were wondering, taking a look at my number to see whether or not I was legitimate or not. Yeah. Yeah. So we've put in a request to speak with

the associate minister of mental health and addictions. We're waiting to hear back. But this is like, again, this is like, it feels to me like those on one side of the equation who want the best for these people who are in the throes of addiction are losing a battle to a far more organized militant group on the other side, who are trying to throes of addiction are losing a battle to a far more organized militant group on the other side who are trying to normalize this with kids. They're trying to, they're pulling a bait and switch. It's a shell game. Oh, calling things something that they are not. I just don't think that one side is as equipped to have this battle as the other. No, and with the sassy machines, the research on it shows that they gave out, I believe it's 127, 716 kits last year.

Each of those kits has a value to it. So a condom and lube kit, for example, will be about $5, whereas your shooting kit is upwards of $40. The crack kits, which are the most popular, apparently, are about $25 per. So if we just average it out at 127,600, sorry, 716 kits at $20, we're talking about $3.5 million per machine. Wow. We are, I believe Canada has a mandate now to put 100 of these machines across country.

So it's coming. These sassy machines, yeah. Sassy machines are coming. And it's 24-7. Kids can go up to that machine anytime day or night. They can get past the street scene that happens to sort of, you know, usually be prevalent around them and they can access these things. Your eight-year-old could actually access it.

It's a vending machine that doesn't require money, doesn't require ID, low barrier. We are gonna take a quick break when we come back. I wanna talk to you more about what the new Toronto initiative is doing as well as we're gonna take your Your calls because we want to hear from the people of Toronto I mean have have we opened up a story here that you were unaware of I I'm gonna leave it to our listeners to tell me whether they're outraged, but I can tell you from a personal standpoint This is more than upsetting don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show

We're talking about the battle lines that have been drawn in this city and how one side just is not fighting fair. It's a bad faith conversation that's happening with proponents of harm reduction or as we're calling a big Harma and those who want a clear rules as to where these drugs are going to be consumed, who's going to be consuming them, how far is this going to be away from schools? And anytime somebody who expresses a little bit of apprehension over the mission creep of the big homicide, you were told you're a nimby,

you don't care for those who need our help the most, you're denying the rights of drug addicts to, I don't know, fulfill their destiny, I don't know what it is, but we're joined today by a guest who sort of really sounded the alarm for us here at the Ben Mulroney Show, Amy from the New Toronto Initiative. Amy, thank you so much.

We're gonna get to the calls in a moment, but tell me about the New Toronto Initiative. So New Toronto Initiative was born out of the revelation about the shelter going into this small residential neighborhood. It's the only one shelter going into this small residential neighborhood. It's the only one that is actually on a residential street. It is, it abuts a seniors home filled with 140 low income seniors whose balconies will be directly leading into the shelter.

Over a hundred of them have signed a letter. Our counselor does not want to hear about it. Councillor Amber Morley has no interest in it. When we asked her about the harm reduction aspect, she thought that it was just the overdose kits. She has no interest in seeing what you're seeing, Ben. Does she know that this stuff is happening? She does. She thinks that it's just overdose kits.

When we showed her this, when we show her needles in the street, she's oblivious. She's ostriching. She puts her head in the sand. She has no interest. And there's no way she's getting reelected. How close are these balconies of the senior cities? How close are they to the windows of this new shelter? They will be, their balconies will be flush with the rooftop garden that they're putting in,

because they actually don't have space for a private space. So they will be, I'm going to say less than six meters from the balconies of the seniors. So who knows what kind of smoke could waft from the top? Yep, did you see the thing about, I think it was in Vancouver, fentanyl smoke in the offices? Yeah. They're testing the air and there's fentanyl in the air.

Yeah. Everywhere you look around. It's just, it's just absolutely crazy. Now you've got a petition as well. We do. So we started a petition because we realized that, do you know what a body rub parlor is, Ben? Well, I've heard tail, yeah. Okay, okay. It's like a massage parlor realized that, do you know what a body rub parlor is, Ben? Well, I've heard tail, yeah.

Okay, okay. It's like a- A massage parlor usually for slightly naughtier massages. And those actually have to be 500 meters away from a school or a daycare. There is no such legislation to that extent in effect between these facilities that distribute these harm reduction supplies like crack pipes.

So we have started a petition that is 500 meters. That's what we want. All right. Well, it sounds reasonable, but the second you do that, there are people on the other side who are lined up and ready to take you on. Hey, let's speak of taking on. Let's let's take on our calls right now. Frank is our first caller. Frank, thanks so much for calling into the Ben Mulroney show. Good morning, Ben. The way I see it in my opinion, it's just my opinion, the city's put itself in a role like it's acting as a legally authorized pusher, pusher of drugs. Essentially, the other fact that I wanted to lay out here

is that what the city's doing in terms of supplying these drugs to the extent that they are, it's actually like a long term form of euthanasia, because essentially, these hard drugs over time are going to damage your brain, they're going to damage your heart. And as we know from prior incidents, and I've heard through friends of mine over the years, that people that we've known that I've known that have been on these hard drugs eventually end up dying quickly, Suddenly. Yeah. It's a look. And that's, that's the game of semantics where we should be having that honest good faith conversation. I thank you, Frank, for your call. That's one of

them. And give us a call 416-870-6400 or one at triple eight, two to five. Talk. Amy, that's, that's the, the, the most difficult part of, of this conversation for me to swallow is on one side, you've got people saying, oh, these people who are in the throes of drug addiction have a charter right to this sort of behavior. We've heard that before. And I'm of the belief that if any of these people were in complete control of their lives,

they would never want to live this way. And so to create a framework that perpetuates it, makes it easier. Someone said on social media, and it stuck with me, is drug addicts will always take the path of least resistance. And so if it means, okay, I'll steal some money from this guy to go get the drugs, I'm gonna do that.

And if it means beating this person up, I'm gonna beat that person up so I can get the drugs. And so no person in their right mind would choose that. And so you have to, so if you reverse engineer it, the conclusion is none of these people are truly in complete control of their faculties. So there's, we can't take them at their word that this is what they want to be doing.

This is how they wanna be leading their lives. And giving this stuff away is the path of least resistance. We are feeding the addiction. We are not treating the illness. Someone the other day made the comment that the LCBO is not giving gift cards to alcoholics. We're not giving cigarettes to smokers. I mean, up and I think even now we hide our cigarettes behind a curtain in the store so that kids don't see them. And yet this is okay. And when we talk about it, they, the people who are harm reduction advocates will say we're wrong and that we should use these as

teachable moments for our child. There's a sign outside this building that says no smoking within nine meters of the door. And yet we have no such signs anywhere else for the most harmful drugs in our society. Let's bring Jim into the conversation. Jim, thanks so much for calling in. Hi, great topic. Just just a point of clarification. I think your, your guest has nailed it and very, very passionate. But there's a comment made that the shelter she's referring to is the only one in the residential neighborhood. A quick Google will show the one that they forced into a Jordan Blantyre in the East End is literally beside residential houses,

backs onto an entire neighborhood and is across the street from a daycare. So I just want to make that point. Yeah, it's worse. It is worse. And the counselor's gone into hiding because he's the one that got muted by Olivia Chow when she made a comment. Well, I hope he didn't break it in the earth Hey, hold on Jim. Thanks so much and Amy you want to jump in? Yeah, and sorry about that. They are all in residential neighborhoods The difference between this site is that it's on a street called Third Street and we've all heard of Gerard Street We've all heard of Shepherd. We've all heard of Wilson. We've all heard of Dufferin But has anybody heard of Third Street? Probably not.

It's a teeny weeny tiny street. And I have been to your site. I've been to all of the locations. There are challenges with all of them. And none of these projects would be approved by the city if it were a proper like retail development, not a retail, an actual developer that was coming in there. They would never allow these properties to go in,

but the city holds themselves to a very different standard. Jim, thanks so much for the call and let's welcome Dave into this very important conversation. Dave, what are your thoughts? Dan, like I said yesterday, you're turning into a real powerhouse. So yeah, like Don Cherry would say, you're a butte. Thank you, Dave.

This stuff is being supplied. Someone has to fund this. So the funding has to stop. And these people that are working there, they're drug addicts as far as I'm concerned, or dealers, they're pushers. They're adding to the problem. Like everybody knows, I hope so.

If there's a fire, you don't put it out by tossing a little gasoline on it. Yeah. It's a no-win situation with these people unless you do what has to be done and that's get them into an addiction program. Yeah, and Dave, thank you so much for the call. And Amy, I don't think any of us are saying

that there is one magic bullet here, but it does seem like the city is hell-bent on focusing on allowing drug addicts to consume drugs with impunity without giving the off ramp and the possibility of treatment and recovery. I think we've got time for one more call. Let's bring in Joanna. Joanna, thanks so much for calling in.

Hi, good morning, Ben. I'm also calling from New Toronto, deeply engaged in what's happening because this impacts not only my family and community, but essentially the entire city. We've made every effort to listen, learn and ask questions, but the deeper we dig, as Amy has highlighted, the more contradictions and alarming truths we uncover. The city officials are saying that harm reduction exists on a broad spectrum. They're claiming that harm reduction could include anything like handing out protein bars and electrolyte drinks to giving out crack pipes and needles.

But saying it that way, this broad spectrum idea is really just hides the truth. Yeah, Joanna, thank you so much for calling. We're going to have to end it there. And I think that's fundamentally, Amy, what we've been circling around is that it's a bad faith conversation. I think on one side, you've got people who very much want to help those

who are in the throes of addiction. And on the other side, you've got people who are playing a shell game. They're using language to their advantage. They're saying one thing, but doing another. It's a bad faith conversation. I wish we could continue the conversation, Amy, but I want to thank you for opening the door to this. I'll remind everybody that Amy is part of the New Toronto Initiative. They

can go to newtorontoinitiative.ca and I wish you the very best and keep up the good fight. Thank you so much, Ben. They come from Survivor, they come from Big Brother, they know what they're doing. These vets wrote the playbook and they have all had to earn their stripes. How did you win Survivor? Manipulating people. Same thing I'm going to do here. And now, new threats will enter the game. Hungry to forge a new legacy.

Once we train them, it's gonna be hard to contain. This really truly is the most even matchup that I've seen in a long time. The Challenge. Vets and new threats. New season Wednesday July 30th on Slice and Streamin' Stacked TV.