The Ben Mulroney Show - If the feds won't get tough on sex offenders, Ontario will.

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

GUEST:   Ontario Solicitor General Michael Kerzner  Guest: Dr. Eric Kam, Economics Professor at Toronto Metropolitan University If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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who already count on us and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. number 20th. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. I got a new hat, everybody. It's my friend's company called Basic Dad. That's the name of the company. And this is the new hat. It's a great, it's a great hat. So welcome to the show, not just the listeners at home, the viewers on YouTube, on radio, on podcast, platforms on the Iheart radio streaming app. But welcome to the team that makes the Ben Mulrude show possible. Welcome to my intrepid producer, Mike Jolet.

Ola Amy Siegel, my video producer Bonjour Bonjour and Dave Spargala the guy with the dials

and the switches and the bulbs and the what-have-hies Hello. We had an Ola, bonjour and you couldn't No, no, no, no, no.

So I told you guys the story last week of me encountering one of the traffic cops who was trying to keep

traffic moving right outside of Union Station. And I pointed out that he wasn't enforcing the rules of the road, which was disappointing. But now you, Mike

Droulet, have your own story. Well, yes. Have you, obviously you've seen these people. If you've driven anywhere downtown, been anywhere downtown, you've seen, I guess there are traffic cops with the big yellow vest, the yellow jackets. Yeah, we've got some just up the street over here.

Have you noticed, at every intersection that they're posted, there is twice as much congestion as normal. Yeah. I don't know that that's true. It takes forever to get through. It does. And they're just standing in the middle of the road. They stand and they're not moving traffic along quicker, which is what the, is it, is the idea to move it along quicker or is there an idea to stop people from doing things that may slow it down?

But if you just take a look at, like, I have to go over that Danforth Bridge every day. Yeah. And I have never seen traffic backed up as it has been the last number of days when these traffic cops have been around. never seen it like that. Now, so what I've noticed is where there are a lot of traffic cops, there's also a lot of construction. There's a lot of road work. And you've noticed there's a ton of roadwork over here.

So I don't know how much of it is the cop's fault and how much of it is the construction. When it's like downtown core, like Bay and Yang area, I find that it just, it's just such a waste of resources because they're just, use the light. Like they're just, they're telling you to go. No, but they're there to make sure people. don't block the box and they can also, if there is a slowdown, they can keep people moving

even if the light goes red. Okay. But people are so slow at following their directions. So maybe it's not entirely their fault because people are not moved. They'll start waving and then somebody starts goes, oh no, it's a cop. I better go really slow. And then they do their turn and you only get two cars through. Maybe it's something like that. I don't think that's the case. I have no idea. I've not had a good experience. It has been every intersection that those guys are, are stationed at. It's chaos. Well, I'll say it, I've said it once and I'll say it many, many, many more times to the cyclists who call in or to the activists who say bike lanes do not cause traffic.

They do not cause congestion. I ask you one simple question. If years ago, when John Torrey was mayor, he instituted a traffic blitz, much like this one, where they would ticket any car that double parked with impunity. So if you want to stop and get to. Tim's, ticket. If you were picking something up, ticket. If you were dropping something off, ticket. Because one car creates a bottleneck that slows everything down.

What is a bike lane, if not an uninterrupted stream of double parkers from the top of a street all the way to when the bike lane ends? You're not going to tell me it's not. So, anyway. What doesn't make sense to me is having, and

I know people need to park. Yeah. But like, on major streets like Bathurst or college, the right lane is all parking. So you have one lane, you have one lane, which is insane. Yeah, yeah. There's one lane, one lane of traffic. And the rest of it is cycle, but, you know, but listen, I want to share the road. I absolutely want to share the road. I just don't know that we've done it in a way that is equitable, at least in certain parts of the city. Because there are certain bike lanes that work very, very well. All right, we've got a lot of stuff we're working on. And kudos to

Mike Droulet for a push and putting us all in the document. A show like this doesn't just come together because he worked and Amy did as well to secure one of our guests. Amy found the great. There are more land claims guys in British Columbia. Oh no. Oh yes. Yeah. A huge report from Global

National talks about Hamas's connections to Canada. And I'm not talking about protesters. I'm talking about people who are literally working for Hamas. And if you had to guess how many people were uncovered working for Hamas. 2,000. All right.

Okay. So we over indexed that time, unlike yesterday. We also have a really important conversation about drones and the future of the military. We're in the process of debating whether we're going to buy this sob plane or the F-35 or a combination of the two. But more and more as we see what happened in Ukraine, that even without an Air Force, Ukraine was able to defend itself against aerial attacks from Russia using drone technology. So we've got someone coming in to talk about that. We're also going to have a broader conversation

about freedoms and responsibilities, rights and responsibilities. A U.S. historian moved to Canada, and he's going to be given us his perspective. But the story that I am most excited about, and this is kudos to the both of you. So months ago, I flipped open my phone. I'm almost never on Instagram anymore. Really?

Yeah, almost never. I'll flip through it if I'm bored or if I'm in a car But by and large I'm not Or if I need a recipe When you're driving No no no when I'm in a car

And all of a sudden I saw this guy in an ice bath A British guy in an ice bath And I started doing some digging Going back to the beginning of his Of his account And his name was Harry And he He was in the throes of a day

addiction, the throes of addiction, alcohol, cocaine, you name it, he was in it. And he, his life fell apart. He lost his son and he went finally to rehab and it took as long as it can take. And he thought the best thing to do would be to start every day with an ice bath. And then he was like, hey, I could record my thoughts. And that's how his, is it a TikTok? It's on Instagram. It's on Instagram. It's an Instagram. I didn't know whether I was getting it second hand on Instagram. But watching him every single day, every single day posting about the good and the bad. And there was one day and we're going to talk to him about him. He was so honest, so honest. Life just wasn't going his way. He wasn't getting the bounces. Social media wasn't

taken off the way he was hoping it was going to. And you could literally see it because he was narrating his thoughts. I think I'm just going to get out of the bath and I'm going to go find my dealer and I'm going to get some drugs. And he doesn't prep any of his. He actually just goes into the bath and whatever it comes to mind is what he talks about. Yeah, and just watch and we're sitting there and everyone who was following him was like, no, Harry, no! And then sure enough

he found his way out of it and he's now, what, 600 days? No, no, no, 489. 489 days, clean and 489 days in the ice bath. So very, very, very excited about that. But first, oh no, we're going to do that. We're doing this after the break, right? We're doing the guy in the car. in the car

In the snowplow? Yeah, we're going to do that. That's after the break. But yeah, listen, we've seen That was great. We've seen in the UK, especially in the UK, extinction, whatever it's called,

the environmental group that stops traffic for miles and miles and miles. At some point, one guy snaps and he just drives over them. We've seen a lot, you've seen those videos, right? And they can't believe it, and how dare. Harry. Well, you know what? The road is there for the cars and you're not supposed to be on it. And so he did what he had to do. And I hope he got arrested and I hope he suffered the consequences because you shouldn't do that. But I get it. And yesterday in the city of Toronto, there was a protest and some guy with a snowplow just decided to drive through the protest. And we'll talk about that after the break. But part of me thinks if you've made your home as a as a pedestrian on the

clogging the streets, good luck because somebody is going to snap. And again, if they snap, I understand, but I also think you've broken the law and you should go to jail. But in this country going to jail, what does that mean? You're out. They give you a stick of gum and they send you on your way. Anyway, so we've got a great, great show for you. Really looking forward to it. But this Olivia Chow, what Olivia Chow wants to do after this snow plow. pro-tester event, what she wants to do, that's the shocker. So don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show from coast to coast to coast on the chorus radio network.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Something happened at Queens Park yesterday, which was out of the norm. And so we figured we'd talk about it today. So when you go into any sort of legislative body in this country, are parliamentary procedures and parliamentary traditions that one must live up to. And there are protocols and workflows and everything happens a certain way. And there is something called behavior unbecoming of a parliamentarian. And I think that's what we witnessed from NDP leader Marit Stiles yesterday because she was ejected from the legislature. So it was during question

period, and you'll hear it in a moment, but the backdrop of this is it's around the Skills Development Fund, which is a government program by the Tories, a $2.5 billion program the Auditor General says was influenced heavily by Labor Minister David Puccini's office. The findings of the auditor show that money went to low-ranked applicants, which raised concerns of interference. Puccini denied all wrongdoing. He said the ministry has a robust safeguard system and is backed by the Premier.

So that's the backdrop for Marrett Stiles. Now let's listen to the leader of the opposition. Bills are being rammed through this legislature. It is the donors and the lobbyists that are connected to this government. It is the strip clubs and the numbered companies. It is the endless grift of. an anti-democratic and, yes, corrupt government. I will ask.

Order, order, order. I will ask the member to withdraw. Speaker, I will not. I am warning the member. The member has been named. We will have to leave the chamber. Yeah, I don't know why Marit Stiles picked this moment to do that, because look, all of these, you always get warned. That's part of the protocol.

If you step over the line and you say something unbecoming of a parliamentarian, you will be warned and you'll have the chance to walk that statement back. And sometimes it's done for, well, to prove a political point. I think it happened to Pierre Poliev a few months ago, or maybe it was right before the election. I can't remember. all sort of blends together. But he had the opportunity to take something back and didn't. And the story then was Pierre Poliev was kicked out of the House of Commons. So I think he wanted to keep that news story.

And he successfully did that. That might be what Marit Stiles is doing here. She might decide this is the type of press she wants to get on issues like this. But always odd when I see somebody in the House of Commons or Queens Park behaving in a way that gets them censured or gets them kicked out of the house because there are so many off-ramps that are provided to you that you really must want to be kicked out of the House of Commons or Queens Park. Okay, so before the break, I was telling you that there was a protest in the city of Toronto.

That's not news. That's not news at all. But there was a protest and there was a guy or a woman, rather, in a snowplow who is a part of the company that has a contract with the city to remove snow. and I do not know what possessed this person to just drive into the crowd of pro-Palestinian protesters but she did and the video is quite jarring

it's quite quite jarring it's right outside the U.S. consulate on university and this person is driving an orange cabota truck and just pushes through a circle of protesters now here's here's the news the news is our our mayor is calling for an investigation after the snow truck drove through the pro-Palestinian protesters. And I am always surprised when something like this happens because why did you pick this thing?

How is this a bridge too far? I get it. I get it. You don't want anybody taking the law into their own hands. And so you're going to make an example of this person. I get it. That's fine. but there has been so much grotesquely gross behavior on the streets of the city of Toronto for over two years.

And now some woman, I guess, is just tired of people parking themselves as pedestrians on the streets of the city and want to remind them that that's not where you're supposed to be. at least that's what I think. And so the fact that the mayor has decided that this is where she's going to draw the line. Again, it tells you everything you need to know about her perspective. She has done absolutely nothing, nothing, to quell the protests. And they're not protests. They are gangs of intimidators. That's what they are.

When they go into the residential area of Jews, you're not there to protest policy. You're not there to protest the military. You're not there to protest a government. You're there to protest Jews. And not only has she not done anything, but her silence has emboldened them to get louder. So she has done something. She's actually made things worse.

But on this front, after two years of taking over streets, someone took matters into their own hands to remind them that they are not cars. And you want an investigation on this. Well, if you want an investigation on this, can we make a list of the things that a lot of us want investigations on? Like, I would love to know. I would love to see the transcripts of the meetings that detailed what, if anything,

did the mayor tell the chief of police, Myron Demkew, about what to do with these protesters, or rather what not to do. And what not to do is everything. Let them do what they want to do. The city is theirs. The city is their playground. We just have to adapt.

I would love to see that. That's the investigation I want to see. But, well, what do you think about this? I think it's exactly what we expected to happen. Yeah. Because it's different rules for different people, different strokes for different folks. You expect them to be able to,

but since the beginning of this whole thing, we haven't seen any sort of equity. There has been no equity. They've allowed groups. They just don't want to deal with it. And they just allow them running around with the megaphones. Loud speakers doing everything. These protests which are not organized.

They're not, they're not, I have to assume that if there's a spontaneous eruption of protest, obviously you don't need to get a permit from the city. But if you are going to stage a protest, you need to get a permit. But it's one thing to allow people on streets. in front of the courthouse and stuff. But if you're not doing anything when they're yelling in megaphones, horrible things in Jewish neighborhoods, and yet you're going to be shutting down a guy who's playing O Canada at City Hall.

Yes, somebody. And I know that's, you know what, I bet you anything. The thing at City Hall wasn't policy from the police. It was one cop who decided to make that decision. I don't know. Because we saw that video yesterday. And no other cops took issue with it. well that's true as well

if like had they done that someone might have come by and say hey can't do that or you would have seen some body language suggesting that they were that they were not cool with it yes so that's what I want to see I want to see an investigation into the relationship between our mayor and our chief

of police because I would very much like to know what's wagging the tail or the dog and lastly before we go to break I want to bring up conservative Roman Babber, who is in committee, asking about the continued protests in Jewish neighborhoods that we just discussed, and he was speaking to the Toronto Police Deputy Chief, Robert Johnson. Officer, if you agree with me that the net result is intimidation, and I think you'd agree with me that the intent is intimidation, then that is no longer protected charter expression.

I believe at the very least, it is mischief. And I'm asking the Toronto police, to respect Toronto's residents and the residents of Bathurst Manor and protect them appropriately. We cannot have thugs walking through local neighborhoods terrorizing the neighbors. It's not too much of an ask. Can we live in peace? Can our streets, can our kids ride their bikes down the streets on the weekends

without the fear that a roaming band of intimidators because they're not protesting. A roaming band of intimidators that are given permission by the police are, can we just ensure that they're not there anymore? And the fact that this has to go all the way to a parliamentary committee in Ottawa speaks to the dereliction of duty

that we have witnessed by certain members that Toronto police and certainly the mayor of this city. Next up, why is Ontario overhauling its sex offender registry? The holiday season is full of choices. Cranberry sauce or gravy, red wrapping paper or green. Squeeze your child into last year's coat or layer them up. Buy your family dinner or buy your daughter medicine. Find childcare or find a new job.

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holiday insiders report try this pc porcetta crackling craveworthy you gonna eat that who are you i'm the voice for the next ad car commercial but i noticed that show stopping roast and help yourself mm designed for indulgence precision crafted to navigate every corner of my mouth all for just Okay, okay. Try the season's hottest flavors from the PC Holiday Insiders Report. Please feast responsibly. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and we were talking a little bit about parliamentary behavior and behavior unbecoming of a parliamentarian with Maritt Stiles, the leader of the opposition, getting the boot from question period yesterday for saying a comment that was a bridge too far. on the other side of the bench where you heard all the applause that was coming from the government side and we're very pleased to have somebody that by all accounts is one of the greatest

gentleman to work in Queens Park in quite some time the Ontario Solicitor General Michael Kersner joins us welcome sir it's great to be with you Ben real quick what did you make of yesterday it just goes to show you, you know, our government has had a tremendous agenda this fall, but it all goes back to protecting Ontario. It goes back to protect us economically, to protect us having the best education system, the best health care, and to protect us from a public safety perspective. So we're not going to be deterred by the opposition and their games. We're going forward with our strong agenda under strong leadership from the Premier. All right. Well, let's move on to the here and

now, and by the way, I know how busy you are, sir, so I really do appreciate your time. The premier says the province is considering making some sex offender registry information public, arguing that parents should know if an offender lives nearby. And it feels to me like there are only so many tools in the provincial toolkit to deal with these things. The problems need to be fixed on the federal side. That's where most of the ammo is. So what are you trying to do? What problem are you trying to fix and how are you trying to fix it?

Well, thanks, Ben. Let me take you back to 1988 when a young boy, Christopher Stevenson, was brutally murdered. In 2000, Premier Mike Harris had the foresight and leadership to bring forward. The first of its kind in Canada, either federally or provincially, the first of, uh, Ontario sex offenders registry. That was subsequently followed by a federal one. But the reason that Premier Harris did it in 2000 was to make sure that the police, uh, have the, uh, tools, investigative tools to keep our community safe.

And now what we want to do here in 2025 is to make sure that we will look at furthering that. We're going to, uh, look to explore making certain information. information on the registry public. And is there, are you getting any pushback thus far? Well, as far as we're concerned, and the Premier spoke about it this week, in the end of the day, we believe that our rights to live safely in our own homes and communities should never be compromised. And we're going to focus on the worst of the worst. We're going to make sure

that we meet with our, our stakeholders in consultation with the Justice Secretary, and with our public safety sector, and we're going to see what is the art of the possible. But in the end of the day, we're leading in the space of public safety. And Ben, we're not going to stop. Meanwhile, so there are a few changes that you're bringing. There's a name change ban.

Registered sex offenders could be prohibited from legally changing their name under the new legislation. We've heard this before. I think it was just last year or earlier this year, that there was someone on the sex offender registry who would change their name, and I don't think the government knew. So we're looking to close that loophole. Well, we've already done that, actually, last fall in the fall of 2024.

We came forward, and we closed that loophole, and that was improving what we call Christopher's law, that again goes back to Premier Mike Harris. What we did is we made sure that you couldn't hide under an alias. You couldn't change your name. And something else, Ben, you can't. can't be on social media if you're on the sex offender's registry list without reporting in your identity on social media because we don't want social media to act as another threat to people who just want to live safely in their own homes and communities. And then we're dealing

and we're talking about the worst predators, you know, people who are pedophiles. Yeah. People who are really bad people. Yeah, but this should not be a political discussion. This is about people's safety. This is about the safety of our children. This, to me, is one of the lowest hanging fruit of apolitical initiatives. And yet, if the issue has gotten exceptionally politicized from all places by the courts that are taking these mind-boggling positions that then force politicians to be more political. Yeah, you're 100% right. Our focus is always to protecting Ontario.

And in this case, it's protecting our own children. The Supreme Court made their decision, which we are really disappointed in. They struck down the mandatory minimum sentences for child pornography offenses, which is unbelievable. And quite frankly, if the Supreme Court of Canada won't protect families, we as a government of Ontario, led by Premier Ford, will. yeah well this is uh this is um uh this is what you can do are there are there any more tools in your toolbox that you could that you could um you could leverage um or or do you think this is what the change that you're bringing are sufficient well firstly uh we're going to be tabling our fall piece of justice legislation next week it's got more elements in it to protect ontario i

I look forward to tabling it and to speaking to it. There will be a number of other measures. Again, that goes to how can we strengthen the public safety in the four corners of our province. But I'll say one thing about why we want to do the exploratory options of releasing information. Because we've seen evidence in other jurisdictions, particularly in the U.S., that structured policy decision access to certain regulations. information helps keeps family safe. And they help keep them safe by informing them about what threats may exist in their own community. And that's what it's about. We have never compromised

been on our public safety. And in February of just this past year, you know, the voters in Ontario sent back a strong PC government because we ran on the platform of protecting Ontario. Lastly, before we go, because we have these conversations about crime in Toronto, in Ontario, and across this country. And one of the issues that comes up so often is a criminal gets arrested and he's booked and he's released. And one of the knocks is that there's just not enough jail cells to keep them in. And I know your government committed to building a lot more jail cells. Where are we on that plan? Yeah, I appreciate the question very much.

I said numerous times in the last few months, we would bring over a thousand new spaces online in a very short order. We're going to be exceeding that target. And Premier Ford spoke up just a couple of weeks ago, highlighting that the federal government had sentenced prisoners in our Ontario facilities. Those are prisoners that were already sentenced to two years plus a day. guess what? The federal government never picked them up. And the premier said to the prime minister, I said to my federal counterpart, pick up these people, get them out of our jails. And, you know, they picked up over 400 prisoners that should never have been there in the first place. So we are building more cells. We're making investments. We're hiring thousands of correctional

officers. And in the end of the day, Ben, I've said it. If somebody feels that they have to break the law, They have to do it. Guess what? We have a place for them. You know, as our Solicitor General, I think your opinion on a number of issues is very salient to our listeners. What were your thoughts on the federal governments beefing up of the criminal code? Well, we were the ones in the first place that have advocated for this at every single level. when the Premier chaired the meetings of First Ministers,

this was one of their pillars calling on the Prime Minister to introduce substantial bail reform. The government, the federal government, has introduced it. I think it is really as a result of the leadership of the Premier, Premier Ford, who took it upon himself to champion this amongst his colleagues. They've taken the first step. We said to them, put in things like mandatory minimum sentence, We'll see if it passes the House of Commons.

I hope it will. It is a good first step. More work has to be done. But as a government of Ontario, we're not going to stop in advocating for public safety at any point in time. All right. Well, thank you very much for joining us, Ontario Solicitor General Michael Kersner. We appreciate it. Hope you come back soon.

Great to be with you. Up next, how are you going to afford the holidays? I'm wondering the same thing. So don't go anywhere. We'll figure out together. This is the Ben Mulroney show, and, you know, economics is everywhere in our lives. You might not think about economics proper, but the impact of tariffs and high taxes and our lower productivity versus the Americans. The forces of economics are barren down on us each and every day.

And so who better to pull back the curtain and explain what's going on than our good friend, Dr. Eric Cam, economics professor at Toronto Metropolitan University. Eric, welcome. Thank you very much. Benedict. How are you? I am doing very, very well. Although, you know, come Christmas, I'm going to be very stressed out because I will know that the bill will be coming due. And so everyone puts everything on credit cards. And then next thing you know, you've got a massive bill to start the year, which is not what you want to be doing. And this year is particularly difficult, isn't it? Absolutely. I mean, we're at really almost an unprecedented time, unless you're old enough to remember the Great Depression, for a macro economy that's headed in the wrong direction. And there's some trends this year that I think are going to be very interesting. One of them we touched on last week, which is, of course, is this whole buying local thing, right? Because this has become economically intentional now, not just emotional when you see all these statistics and surveys that all these Canadians plan to support locally

own businesses. So now this has gone beyond what I think Mr. Elbows Up tried to do. He just tried to have it as a, I don't know, almost an allegiance thing. But now it's gone well beyond goodwill, right? People are now building their local spending into their holiday budgeting. And it's become kind of a perceived community movement and not just an individual one. But here's my question, Ben, and I guess you know what's coming. All of this is wonderful. And I actually support the movement to purchase Canadian. However, with all of the shifts in tariffs and the ground moving under us, if those Canadian prices suddenly don't look as good as the American prices again, how loyal are people going to be? In other words, are they driven by their nationalism or by

their wallets? And I guess by virtue of what I do, I would probably argue their wallet. Oh, the wallet. Right now, there's no such thing as a nice to have. Everything that's on our nice to have list, we don't get. We are only buying the must haves right now. But there's a recent study from Money Mart that really reveals the state of play. Nearly 8 in 10 Canadians, 78% of Canadians say inflation will impact their holiday spending this year. And, you know, it's one of these things where you kind of also manifest. I mean, the numbers are the numbers. But in terms of what you think you're capable of, if you don't think you're capable of spending at the limit level that you were before, then you won't be able to do it.

And if 78% of people are saying they can't spend as much, they're not going to spend as much. And nor should they. I mean, you know, I'm not a financial advisor, but the last thing to do when you're on shaky ground in terms of your finances is to overspend. Overspend is never a good idea, but it's particularly not a good idea right now. I found that survey to be fascinating where they have such an overwhelming number of Canadians thinking that inflationary effects are going to affect their spending. I think there's another thing they brought up that's equally as important. And for the audience, it's called debt fatigue. And the idea there is that when households normalize their debt, in other words, they just

realize, well, debt's now a normal part of our life and we're never going to get out of it, they tend to do poor decision-making, like making minimum payments on their credit cards. And not only does that put a drag on long-term economic growth because it reduces consumer spending, but even worse for hardworking Canadians, they enter something that we call a debt stagnation trap where your debt grows faster than income. And in a lot of ways, Ben, that's the last domino to fall because when your household debt ratio starts to go up and up and up,

nothing good is going to happen. And eventually, heaven forbid, you can lose your home. Yeah, you know, I just wish the one group of people that did have debt fatigue were the federal liberals. Oh, they do have debt fatigue. They're not concerned because it's not their house. I mean, what I mean is I wish they were tired. We're just tired.

We've lived with these for so long. We're going to try something else. We're going to try saving money this time. No, these people have no idea. They were now about, what, 10, 11, 12 years into this ridiculousness. I mean, here's the point. And so if you want to make a statement to the liberals, here, for all of them listening, probably both of them, right?

If Canada is now entering a period, in my humble opinion, where high cost, stagnant wages and household debt are severely going to weaken consumer spending. And for this government, we know, Ben, that consumer spending is the only engine they have. That's why they keep dropping the interest rate. And so, in my opinion, if we're not have any relief here, we don't have any wage growth or tax relief, right? And all you're going to do is drop the interest rate. What are the pressure is going to do? they are going to turn the one thing that the government's been able to hang their hat on, when that turns around and spending drops, we are in a deep recession.

And when do you think something like that happens? So do you think that we're going to have an underwhelming, an underwhelming sort of consumer wave going to the stores at Christmas? And then that's going to continue into January? No. And I'm glad you asked me that. And I don't mean to sound so negative. but I don't think right now that it's going to affect people spending at Christmas as much as these surveys.

When you answer a survey, Ben, it's like when they ask you who you're going to vote for. It's very different than actually voting. People will always say they're going to cut their spending and then their emotions take hold and they don't cut their spending. And so my disaster scenario happens when we're talking in January and February and they get their bills and they can't pay them. Ah. And then what happens then? What happens if you get your credit card? You can go on a payment plan, right? Well, there's lots of things you can do, you know, and we can talk about it then. But, you know, there's, listen, there's professionals that will help you with your insolvency.

But I think you're going to see this year, here's my prediction, and by the way, I hope I'm wrong. I think you're going to see huge personal insolvency after the Christmas season. I think you're going to see people declaring personal bankruptcy because it's never been a worse idea right now to overspend. Christmas is the season of overspend. and I think that's a confluence of very bad over there. Well, there's a group of entrepreneurs out there that are hoping that you're wrong on all fronts. And we touched on it a little bit before we talked about the Buy Canadian initiative. A national survey says that 62% say they'll paint the town red by going pro-Canadian this Black Friday.

62% are allocating more of their holiday budgets to support locally owned businesses. And 54% of those shoppers are willing to spend up to, 50% more to buy Canadian. 61% believe their communities will also focus on supporting local this year. So that's kind of good news. It's kind of good news. And I know we're a little up against the clock, but I've got two minds on this and what economist doesn't, right?

So what we're seeing this year is this intentional spending now, not just shopping, intentional spending, where Canadians are choosing to support their local businesses, even if it costs more. And I read that thing where Canadians say even if they'll pay up to 50% more to buy Canadian, here's the other side of the coin. I don't believe a word of it. I think most people, because of no fault of their own, are on financially very unstable

grounds. Do you really think, Ben, that people are going to look at two products when one of them is 50% more money and say, the Canadian in me really forces me to buy that 50% more? No, I don't believe a word of it. I agree with you. I agree with you. I think these numbers off the top that we were talking about, in the 8 and 10, Canadians say inflation will impact their holiday spending. I think that's the governing number.

And everything else is wishful thinking. I believe in, you know what, you're right. And sadly, I really believe in budget constraints. And over the last decade for people, they've moved in, as opposed to moving out. And so I think people vote with their wallets. I think people vote with their feet. And I would like to think, I really would. You know, in the pie in the sky world, I'd like to think people would look at two products, even if they're 50% different in price and go with the Canadian product, but you expect Canadians to do that when you haven't expanded their wages or their job market opportunities in the last 10 years, the government's fooling themselves. Well, it's like I said before, the list of must-havs and nice-to-haves is different today than it was

before. What must I have? Presence to give my kids. What would be nice to have? Canadian presence I give to my kids. And I'm more scared than that. What if the must-haves are your mortgage or your rent or food and present- are out the window this year.

And I'm not telling people. I got to go. I got to go. Thanks so much, my friend. backstabbing. I'm excited to do it. Canada's number one reality show. This is a highly venomous snake. I'm worried about his life at this point. We both aren't afraid to be killers. I'm the puppet master. She was Karen. This is Survivor. We're going to go to War Survivor. All new Wednesdays on global. Stream on Stack TV.