The Ben Mulroney Show - Independent media caused a fire-storm after the debates because of their questions

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

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at participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. It is great to have you here. I am Alex Spears and this is Thursday, April 17th. I am in for Mr. Ben Mulrooney. He's off for a couple of days. He'll be enjoying the Easter weekend. Hopefully we all will be because, yeah, it's a long weekend. And so, yes, kind of enjoy the Friday vibes to this day.

We deserve them. Oh, Lots to go through today, certainly. And of course, if you're the political kind or certainly interested, it is debate night number two. And we got the first one out of the way, we got this one to go. And yeah, I watched this stuff. It was my husband's birthday yesterday. And so we did celebrate watching the French debates, which is super romantic. It was my husband's birthday yesterday. And so we did celebrate watching the French debates, which is super romantic. Exactly what he wanted for his birthday this year. But yeah, we'll celebrate the birthday on the weekend

and we'll have a lot to say about certainly the French debate and what comes tonight, right? Is this gonna move the needle? Was there a winner? I mean, I certainly thought there were a bunch of losers, mainly those in the media who were just losing their minds over the fact that other outlets got to ask questions. Because apparently the media thinks

they've got an exclusive on that. So I'm going to dig into that. But before we get to all the politics, you know, at the federal level, I do want to talk about Doug Ford, some of the things that he has being said, and I don't think there's any debate. He might debate it, but I don't think there's any debate about whether he wants to become a prime minister. Right? So he's hosting Tim Houston from Nova

Scotia, as well as the premier of New Brunswick, Susan Holt, on Wednesday. They're talking about the removal of inter-provincial trade barriers, something that should have happened decades ago, but here we are in 2025 talking about it and getting that done, hopefully. But of course, when the questions started to fly, he was pressed, why are you getting involved in an election that you said you weren't going to get involved in? Why are you criticizing Pierre Poliev's campaign? And so it's interesting because Doug Ford got onto the defensive, right? He doesn't like, I guess he got a lot of blowback, but here's what he said.

He thinks he doth protest too much. When I was born, folks, the doctor came along and stamped the C on my forehead. Just like I'm sure my colleagues, no matter if it's Christia Freeland or Dominic LeBlanc, they're liberals. And that's fine. God bless them. I'm a conservative. I'll always be a conservative. I'm sure my colleagues, no matter if it's Christian Freeland or Dominic LeBlanc, they're liberals.

And that's fine. God bless them. I'm a conservative. I'll always be a conservative. Simple as that. And that's why our families voted all forever.

Before Moses. Moses was a conservative, maybe. I don't know. All right. Leave Moses out of

this. I'm not sure we want to mix politics and religion that much, right? That what could go wrong? Nonetheless, I think he probably got a lot of blowback from conservatives furious over his meddling in favor of Carney or at least in appearance looks like it's for Carney. Again, you're either in or you're out, but he says no, no, no, no, no, I'm just defending my friend, Corey, my campaign manager. I have the greatest

job in the world. I've said from day one, I'm not getting involved in this election. I never got involved in the other two federal elections. What I was doing is standing up for a friend, a campaign manager that brought three

consecutive majority governments. Let the best person win and make sure they I'm a conservative. I have a blue sign on my lawn. Simple as that. But I've also shown I will work with anyone no matter if it's the NDP mayor or a liberal prime minister

or my great liberal premiers, NDP premiers, but I will work with anyone no matter if it's the NDP mayor or a liberal prime minister

or my great liberal premiers, NDP premiers, or my great liberal premiers, NDP premiers, I don't care about political stripes. I'm going to deal with someone who wants to do the best job for Ontario and protect their jobs, protect the families and the communities. If you're not getting involved, Premier, then don't get involved. For the campaign manager, according to the minister, I'm going to do the best job for

Ontario and protect their jobs, protect the families and the communities. If you're not getting involved, Premier, then don't get involved. Right. For the campaign manager, Corrie tonight chose to get involved in the campaign. Right. Cause he could have aired his grievances behind closed doors and decided to go public. Like if I've got a, an ax to grind about the station I work with or how things are being done here, do you think I go to on air and yell and scream about things that I'm not happy about? No, I would go quietly and

talk to the boss or someone behind the scenes. Those are choices, right? And so they decided to air that publicly. Frankly, not your campaign, Mr. Ford. Why do you care what strategy they use? You won your election. Go focus on the things you promise to deliver. Right? Because Cory tonight said, no, no, no, everything, there's wrong strategy for Pauli. He's got to be talking Trump, Trump, Trump. Really? Well, cost of living and affordability are very much top issues. Right? The Trump narrative is trumped up, right? When he doesn't talk then you get media asking, why aren't you talking about us? Are we not the 51st

state? But right now, and I think certainly for large portions of this company, it never changed. Cost of living and affordability are top issues because guess what happens when tariffs come in? It makes it even worse, right? So a lot of people, yeah, they're worried about that. But I'd also say to Ford, like conservatives have a very long memory and put up with Doug Ford's heavy spending and liberal ways, not to mention his failure to address extremism all over our streets, the crime, the crumbling health care, failing education. I mean really, don't worry about what's going on in politics. Fix your own house.

Fix it. And maybe, I don't know, fix what everyone's talking about now, which is this bad deal or very questionable deal and this multi-billion dollar deal that sounds like we got robbed, right? And we're going to talk to the author of the New York Times report, who kind of exposes story about Thurm, this Romanian company that secured a deal to build this spa at Ontario Place. And they allege not only misrepresented credentials, but gouged taxpayers. And so, look, Ford can pontificate about all these things in politics and that. taxpayers and so look Ford can pontificate about all these things in politics and that but clearly there are a lot of fires burning around and she's

got to explain this because it doesn't look good now he's adamant he's adamant that no matter what the New York Times is saying the spa is what everyone wants and no one was scammed but you know he's just gonna check just in case when I heard this this allegation I went directly to the minister and to the deputy and said, here, look into this. I just want to double and triple check the contract and make sure everything passes a smell test. Don't you smell before you sign on the dotted line?

Don't you give that stuff a good sniff, right? Because you should have. Something stinks here. Those I's and T's should have been crossed and dotted before signing on the deal because frankly this was brought up by the AG in December and so the AG was saying what the hell's going on with this deal? The company may have gotten access to hundreds of millions of dollars and might not have represented itself. Now, but look, Thurman is denying all this as they will. That's fine. But Doug Ford has some explaining to do, right? Because this deal does not, it does not look good. How is it that the New York Times can point this out? The AG last year can raise these issues and now only, now Ford

goes and checks the fine print? Yeah, a little too late for that. And again, this is just one new scandal. There's the green belt stuff that we have to deal with, with Mr. Ford, and there's all sorts of other stuff, the housing that's not getting built that no one talks about, right? Because he made all these big promises, shovels not in the ground, but hey, Trump, Trump, Trump. So I would suggest to Mr. Ford, maybe sit out of the campaign, because you got lots of fires burning around to keep you busy. Doesn't matter if Carney or Poliev wins, you gotta do your own heavy lifting, and that's on you. When we come back we're gonna dig into the issue of why was the

mainstream media so angered last night after the debates? Was it something that happened in the debate? Uh-huh. No, of course not. Apparently it was things that they were not allowed to ask about at the debate and I'm gonna ask you, is there no room for other media? Does it have no other voices? We'll talk about that in just a second. Alex Pearson in for Ben Mulroney on the Ben Mulroney Show. Breaking news coming in from Bet365 where every nail-biting overtime win, breakaway, pick six, three-point shot, underdog win,

buzzer beater, shootout, walk-off, and absolutely every play in between is amazing. From football to basketball and hockey to baseball, My parents have had a lot of time on their hands lately. At first, it was nice. Hey mom, can you drive me to soccer practice? Sure can. We're having slow cooked ribs for dinner. It was awesome. And then it became a lot. Some friends are coming over to watch a movie. Oh, what are we watching? I'll make some popcorn. Thanks to Voila, they can order all our fresh favorites from Sobeez, Farmboy, and Longos online, which is super reliable. And now my parents are reliable.

A little too reliable. Voila, your grocery's reliable. And now my parents are reliable, a little too reliable. Voila, your groceries delivered just like that. It is the Ben Mulroney Show and I am Alex Pearson. I talked to Ben about that music of his. Boy, oh boy. All that chipper Taylor Swift. Great to have you here on this Thursday as we get you into a long weekend. I think a lot of us need certainly a lot going on as get you into a long weekend, I think a lot of us need, certainly a lot going on

as we go into this long weekend, we talk about the debates, the debates, and certainly politics will probably be part of the conversation around the dinner table, right? It's like pass the rules, dear. Yeah, don't pass it on my head, right? Depends on how you get into the conversations, how that dinner goes.

It can get pretty, they always say there's rules of what not to talk about at the dinner table, right? It's don't talk about politics or religion. It's a very religious weekend on the calendar. It's a very political weekend. So a lot of people saying, well, who won the debate? They all won the debate. Okay. That is the answer. They all won the debate because apparently they did not lose. So I'm going to put the politics of the, the, the thrust of the hit and the punch and all the rest of it. I'm going to put that politics of the thrust of the hit and the punch and all the rest of it. I'm going to put that later because Anthony Koch will talk to me in the 10 o'clock hour about what he saw, what we should see, what matters, what doesn't

and what we can expect going into tonight's English debate because it will be much different. But I do think, you know, it's what happened after the debate that becomes a story. And it's, you know, when the media get to ask questions of each leader. So the leaders come out after the debate and you get 10 minutes with each leader and they can talk about how they won or what they wanted to get through or the message or answer questions. And the debate, you know, it's all decided by the debate commission. The debate commission set up by the Trudeau government. They wanted to control this stuff.

They took it from the broadcasters who'd never had an issue with all this stuff, but they took it away and millions of dollars spent on this debate commission and they set up how the debates are run, what time they're run, and who gets to ask the questions after. Right? So that's their thing. And I don't know, maybe they weren't doing their job because they were asking questions of other media. Right? So it was a bone of contention. And there were a number of questions asked by independent media. And my God, it would be like you watching my colleagues, and I had to watch the post debate on CBC

because they were one of the only covering it, which was somewhat a form of torture because literally at this point they sound like propaganda for the Liberal Party. It's not balanced in any way, but they were horrified, horrified that another media outlet that's not part of, let's say the mainstream, got to ask a question. Now, I don't necessarily agree with all the questions asked but I also don't have a problem with other issues and topics coming up because I don't look at this election as a one topic election because it's not. Trump is a part of it but it's not the only part of it. There are other issues. So I don't have a problem with other questions coming up. Oh boy, the gang over at

the CBC looked like they were to turn themselves inside out, which says to me, this is why you're out of touch with the reality facing everyday Canadians. Let me play you some, a couple of questions. Again, you might not agree with the questions. You might not agree with the topic, but is it fair to have other voices other than the main players in Ottawa, let's say, right? So here's like Keenan Baxe of Juno News. And I thought he asked a really sometimes the simplest, dumbest answer a question can

lead to the most interesting responses. But the question is, you know, was Justin Trudeau a good prime minister? Justin Trudeau and the previous administration made a number of contributions to this country. I suspect since I have 10 minutes, I think, right, for the responses, I'm not going to enumerate them all. I'll make one point which I think is relevant on the way looking forward, which is, as I said the other night in an interview, we share the same values in terms of solidarity, taking care of one another, the emphasis on reconciliation, emphasis

on equality of all Canadians, and building a better country for everyone else. The difference, one of the differences, there are many, but one of the differences between the two of us goes to the question I was just asked, which is I put much more emphasis on the economy, on growing the economy. In fact, in this circumstance that we're in, given the scale of the crisis and what needs to be done, I would say a relentless focus on growing the economy

to work for all Canadians. What's wrong with the question? What is wrong with his question? He asked, do you think Mr. Trudeau was a good prime minister? And that was a substantive answer. Right? Because the last guy did not focus on monetary issues. It was a problem. So now we know that the difference between the two is he does.

Mr. Carney does focus. There's nothing wrong with that question. Does it mean more if the CBC asks it? No. Right? But then Mr. Bext asked a follow-up. Again, what's wrong with the question? It didn't seem like Mr. Carney liked it, but what's wrong with the question? Just to follow up, if I may, your entire campaign does seem to be predicated on putting you in the front and hiding the people that stood in lockstep with Justin Trudeau for the last 10 years. You're kind of hoping that Canadians won't connect the dots that the people standing

behind you in your caucus walked in lockstep with them. Regardless of what you say right now, Stephen Gaubeau made the carbon taxes life work. The man that moved Paul Bernardo from a maximum security prison is now your chief of staff. I'm wondering how you reconcile this and how you can trust their judgment when they thought those ideas were good ideas. I'd say a couple of things to that rather odd question. First is that the candidates in this election for the Liberal Party, I mean, you go and see

when I make an announcement, I don't think I've seen you at any of them. First of all, there's nothing odd about the question at all. In fact, it should be pointed out all the time. How are you different given everybody around you is the same as the last administration? What's wrong with the question? Not odd at all. How are you going to be different?

You've got all the same cabinet ministers. You've got all the same advisors. You were an advisor. So how are your values different? Why should we see you as different? Nothing wrong with the question, nothing odd about it. You might not like that it's an independent asking it, but I didn't think there was anything wrong with it, right? Maybe we should be asking that, maybe we should be reminding Canadian voters, by the way a vote for Mark Carney means you do get the exact

same players as before, you just get a new leader. Because I think people forget that. But there's nothing wrong with that question. Now, I might not have asked this next question. But again, there are people who do see very much that this is an issue. And this comes from True North. This is Alex Zoltan who asked, I think, a question that made Mr. Carney very uncomfortable. So Alex Zoltan with True North. If you thought my friend's question was odd

you're gonna love this one. I'm glad you self-assessed that, okay. How many genders are there? There in terms of sex there are two. Thank you. My follow-up question then. Do you believe that women, biological women, have the right to their own spaces, their own sports, their own change rooms, their own prisons, their own homeless shelters? I think we, this is Canada, and that as a general objective, yes, we, but we work in where we value all Canadians for who they are and we'll continue

to do so. Thank you. Spit it out. These are not hard questions. You might not agree with the question, but for some reason, that topic, that subject tongue tiesties politicians today. Because that's not a hard question, and it does have relevance. Might not be in the mainstream an issue, but these issues have been very much a problem and an issue. So that might not be your question or your issue in the election,

but it was asked, and I don't care who the politician is, they should answer it. Because that's what you're serving the public all of the public and that includes the public that might not be talking about the things that you want to talk about right and so again you're a politician you're gonna get asked just about anything answer the question I mean there was there was Jagmeet Singh I'm not gonna answer a question. I'm not answering the question. Oh, you're with rebel news I'm not answering your question. Who the hell is he did not answer questions. You are a politician. You're paid by the public

Rebel had to go to court to get access to go to these debates. They are part of the media. You might not like them But answer the question because you end up looking like the jerk them but answer the question because you end up looking like the jerk right so I'll put this out there I'm gonna open the phone lines on this 4168706400888 225 talk and be curious does the independent media have any role in these kinds of events did they hijack the post debate scrum because they got in line like everyone else that that you get there you get in line, and you're chosen to ask a question. Or should they be blocked out? Should only certain members of the media be welcomed in?

I'll put it to you. 4168706400 or 8888225. Talk. Let us go to Robert, who is one of those in the independent media. You say what? I think the independent media has a voice. They should be asking questions and saying what he did last night was deplorable. And I've got one other really important little nugget

for you. I'm a conservative in Eastern Ontario, okay? And I've been speaking to various members at some of the writings. We will no longer give any money to Doug Ford as long as he's premier, unless he stands up and acts like a Canadian and backs Paulie up, because we've had enough.

Well, okay, there you go. Well, that's that. Look, I think we'll probably hear more of that, but having said all that, does it matter if the questions, you know, are a little bit off the beaten track? Absolutely not. Other than off a beaten track, Alex,

comes a really good path. Not always, but sometimes. Yeah, look, hey, I'm not a follower, but I thank you very much. Again, sometimes a dumb question gets the best answer. You actually catch politicians off guard, and it can be a very honest, honest moment. When they're not expecting certain topics, they don't have talking points for them. We don't want talking points for them. We don't want politicians on talking points. You know, that is not, to me, politicking and it's the very

worst of politics now. It's like a cancer in it, right? Let us go to John. John, you see it another way. Hey Alex, how are you? I'm good. First time caller. I kind of see the, and I hate to refer them as fringe media because I do agree that you should have independent outlets. The problem I find with a lot of these outlets is that they try to catch, regardless if it's Paul Vier or Carney or Singh, in a gotcha moment.

Some of the questions seem to be skewed in what, they're actually structuring them to elicit a response that'll garner them more views, more clicks, whatever. I just don't see the credibility at this point from the way they present themselves. It's almost like they're trying to trigger the politicians. And unfortunately, their manner in which they go about it to me seems a bit suspect. That's my opinion. I mean from what how they go about asking the questions. It seems like it's very aggressive. It's very like I said it's almost like they're

waiting for a gotcha moment. Hey you messed up haha you know that kind of stuff to cater to their their following. All right. Just my take on it. I appreciate it. Hey you're allowed that take and it's good to raise it. And I'll tell you this. Some yeah, do gotcha moments. But there are many independent media that do discuss topics that are not being discussed in some mainstream, right? Sam Cooper with the Bureau now, right?

His work on Chinese interference. There are low independent journalists doing work that without them, things would not be getting covered. You know, Terry Glavin, guys like that, covering things on indigenous issues that wouldn't be part of a mainstream conversation, right? So inevitably, there's gonna be more and more independent media because the business is shrinking. So these voices, whether you like them or not,

are going to be part of the conversation. Let me go to Melinda. Hi, Melinda, you say what? Hi, I would completely almost disagree with the previous caller. I think independent media have a huge role to play. I think what the politicians, a few in particular, forget is this is a job interview for the highest position in all of the land. And anybody that's gone through a job

interview knows that the questions posed of the interviewee is not scripted. These are, you know, there are varied topics that come into play in all job interviews. They need to expect that. I would also say the independent media, let's face it, they've been shut out.

There's been an active move to keep them out and only support mainstream media that frankly is swayed at the moment. I think they pose interesting

issues. I think they pose interesting issues. I think they pose move to keep them out and only support mainstream media that, you know, frankly, is swayed at the moment. So I think they pose interesting pop-up questions because they're aware that they may have limited time or they may get shut down or in the case of Jagmeet Singh, just who refuses to answer any questions. So I think that also has to come into the picture. Yeah, I agree. Look, bottom line is if you're a politician, it doesn't matter the topic, you should be able to answer the question, right? That is your job. And the one thing I will say about Carney is he doesn't really know the policies as in depth. He got into big, big trouble on the language bill, Bill 121, I think think in Quebec, but he gets into issues and stumbles on policy

that he's not as familiar with because he's new to the job. That can get him in trouble, right? So yeah, relevant. Let me go to, I think Bill, we got a bunch of calls here. Let's go to Jim. All right, Jim, you say what? Hey, hi Alex. I have a couple of things to say. First, I think all media should be independent.

I think they call it the fifth estate and they do it because we need people, reporters to look into things that are going on in our government. So I don't see how public funds and independent reporting can go together. If one party gives more money to the CBC, for example, like Kearney has suggested, then there's going to be a bias. So let all the reporting be independent.

And I'll say one more thing, and you made the point a few minutes ago, I don't know if everyone picked up on it. You had to watch CBC last night. Now you might not like what happens in the States, but they've got CNN and NBC, and they've got for half of the population, then they've got another side with Fox. We don't have that.

And I had to watch Rosie Barton last night, getting furious about the about the independent questions that were being asked. And that doesn't fly with me. It shouldn't fly with anybody. No, I got to let you go because I want to get one more call in. But but to your point, look, you're basically saying let them eat cake. And I don't like that. Right, there are people in this country who don't feel like they have any voice at all and they wanna be heard.

And they don't feel like they're being heard. And so yeah, again, this, as if anyone else should have a voice, of course, people should have a voice in this business. Right, let me go to Bill. Let's take your call. Hey Bill, you said what? Well, I think I learned more about the character

of the candidates from independent media in that last 40 minutes. And literally, they stole the show. I watched Rosemary Barton on CBC and you could see them. They were so uncomfortable. It just, it made me laugh. You know, I pay for my independent media and I pay for CBC. I pay for the CBC too.

Yeah, I know. And I absolutely, it disgusts me. But Singh last night, it's Easter and he couldn't condemn burning down churches. I mean, that man is disgusted. Well, look, I'm gonna run out of time. He said a lot of other things last night in French that again, if you've got a problem

and you're offended by anything, some of the outbursts, which we'll go through with Anthony Koch later, that Mr. Singh had last night were French that again, if you've got a problem and you're offended by anything some of the outbursts which we'll go through with Anthony Koch later that Mr. Singh had last night were downright disgusting. Let me get you in Dan, you got about 40 seconds, you say what? Mainstream is, is, is, I'm generally biased. I mean the, the latest ad even on, and I'll reiterate Jim Jim said, yes, the CBC is a publicly private funded institution, right? That is, that is. It's publicly funded by us, the private taxpayers.

There's nothing private about it. And Carney said he was going to double their funding in the middle of a campaign. Now, that said, you also look at the ads. They're very underhanded in terms of the ads for publicly funded media like CBC and City TV, or CTV rather, where they've had, they don't come out and say it, but when they talk about the election, the only points that they bring up are,

we're gonna talk about Trump, we're gonna talk about the, they show images of the 51st state. They don't talk about anything other than what's going to support Carney, or they show images of what's going to support the Liberal Party agenda and not anything other than that. So it's even more underhanded in terms of how they're actually even marketing their own services. They're marketing their own services with images that support the Liberal Party without even saying it.

Well yeah, again, if the taxpayers are going to have to pay for this, then you've got to show all views and they just don't. And so again, I think at their own expense and certainly the expense of this country, look down your nose at those trying to find out and have other conversations. But we'll continue talking about it because we'll see what happens tonight. I have a feeling the debate commission probably can't sit down right now. And probably going to be shellacking. So let's see what happens tonight and who's asking the questions. I'm here for Bet Rivers Online Casino and sportsbook with poker icon Phil Hellmuth.

Thanks to Bet Rivers I'm also a slots icon. Great! And the same game parlay icon. Cool, cool. A blackjack icon, a money line icon, a roulette icon. If you love games, Bet Rivers is the place to play and bet. Bet Rivers. Games on. Must be 19 plus and present at Ontario. Void were prohibited. Terms and conditions apply. Please play responsibly.

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So this is something I'll open the phone lines on. 416870 6400 888-225-TALK. I want you to convince me this is not a cash grab, right? Convince me it's not. I don't think you can. Because they're all over the place right now. We've got 75 speed cameras. That's going to double now.

And Chow says, well, we have to double it because, well, 24 pedestrians and cyclists were killed last year. Right. So this is the necessity, according to Olivia Chow. But when you actually follow the dollars versus the stats, you tell me what adds up, right? Because you go to the data and year to year, 2015, 63 people killed. 2016, it goes up 78 people killed. 2017, 63. 2022, 50. 2023, 45. And then this 2024, the numbers are 49. So it does, it has been coming down. It has been coming down. Would we all love it to be perfect? Absolutely.

Right, but then you have to look at the other data as to what it adds up to for the city of Toronto when we are fined by these things. And it's not small, right? It's 40 million bucks so far in one year, just last year, 40 million in fines. That's a pretty big cash grab for the city. And I would point out, three of those are mine, which I just got two of last week. I'm sorry, dear, I didn't mention it.

And again, I try to be as careful as possible, but they're all over the place now, right? Now I don't mind if they're in things like school zones. That would make sense. But do they need to be all over? Hey, if you want to block that box, I don't have a problem with them being there. But do we need more speed cameras or do you see this as a cash grab? That is the question. And so again, we've got studies, the SickKids and TMU University,

they found and they cite a huge drop of speeding when the cameras were in use. They say it went down from 60% to 43% in 30 kilometer zones. Right, they said it improved also in a 40 to 50 kilometer zone, okay? But the data we've shown you year over year since 2015 through 2024 shows you that speeding, in fact, with deaths involving people has come down. So convince me, is this a cash grab or is it actually about safety? Let's start with you,

Robert. You say what on this? Robert? Hello, Robert. Thank you for listening. Hello, Robert. Hello. You're Robert, I'm Alex, but you do have to turn down your radio. Yeah, I just figured that out. Sorry about that.

That's okay. I'm not perfect either. Well, no, I'm pretty darn close, but anyway. But listen, I say, yeah, it's a safety thing, but it's also a cash grab, it's a win-win. So because I am a parent of now three teenagers, there's been a dozen stories in my short little life of maimed or deceased kids with well-intentioned mothers and fathers going 75 in a 30 or 40. In the Mercedes that cost like 150 grand. Pardon me?

And they're driving a Mercedes that cost 150 grand. Yeah, and they've got a toddler in the back, so they're good people that are in a bad rush. So yeah, it puts more money in the city. Who cares? It does slow people down. So it's a win-win. But because it's one of the wins, then the other win, which is money happens to be flowing in, who cares? I think that's great. It's a win-win. I'm not saying don't have the story and your debate is not worth it but who cares because it's slowing everybody down. I see it every day and now they've got I live in Ajax and now they've got them in Ajax. It really does work. I think it's important to debate it because some things out there are cash

grabs, not accomplishing anything, not bettering society. This one is bettering. Well, we'll see. Okay, we'll see. I've got a bunch of calls. You know, Greg Brady's running an Ajax, right? So maybe he'll talk about the safety of the cameras. But thanks for your call very much. But the data again shows from 2015, 63, you know, and there are blips that go up. But bottom line is the numbers have been coming down as far as those killed in, you know, vehicle and pedestrian cyclist accidents, right? Let me go to Lou, because Lou, you see it a little differently. Hey, Alex, I cash grab all the way. You know honestly if they were interested in public safety they'd be tackling pedestrians crossing

illegally, cyclists not stopping for stop signs, stand-up scooters that you know shouldn't even be on the road they're illegal hands down but Chow doesn't wish to do anything. She's the world's worst- Well, hold on a second, because you raise a really good point. Hold on. You know, like the scooters that now use the bike lanes and all that and the cyclists, they don't get napped. But if they did, it might even the plague. Yeah, I do take your point on that. Police don't do anything about it. And when people fail to enforce the law or the police fail to enforce the law, people will fail to obey the law hands down.

Yeah, I think you raise a great point, pretty much. They're selective in their, in who they take the cash from, but that's a huge part of it. If you really, truly want to make it about safety, yeah, you've got to nab them. You've got to make them part of it. You know, bikes, people crossing when they're not supposed to cross, so impossible in Toronto now to turn into some intersections because you've got to wait for the bike lane, then you've got to people crossing when they're not supposed to cross. So impossible in Toronto now to turn into some intersections because you've got to wait for the bike lane, then you've got to wait for the pedestrians to cross.

Like the streets are so confusing. Set the camera up and get them. You can add lots more money with the jaywalkers, the cyclists, you'd make a mint, right? They just never seem to get pulled into any of this stuff. Let me go to Dan. Let me start with you. Hello, Dan, you say what?

Hey, how are you? I'm good, you got about 40 seconds. I agree with one of the callers where he was thinking it was a win-win, but I want accountability of where this money is being spent. I have no problem with them making money off of people doing things that are illegal,

but I wanna see where this money is spent. That's the problem. The city doesn't know how to use the funds that they bring in. They waste money like crazy. What you mean you want it to actually go to things like fixing potholes? Potholes, like any infrastructure,

in the health system, whatever it can, wherever they can put it in responsible manner problem is it doesn't go to that it just goes to waste well that is a big problem appreciate it and and again show some accountability i do think that olivia chow and others who do this would get a lot more buying if you

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