The Ben Mulroney Show - Iran has a new(ish) leader/Bill C-9 clarity/The burger wars!

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

GUEST:  Andrew Lawton / MP Elgin-St. Thomas-London South. Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters, Founding Partner of Chatter AI If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Iran has a new leader, and let's be honest, he's pretty much as same as the old one, possibly more extreme. So we talked about that as well as Bill C-69, which is trying to clarify the confusing hate crime law. and we spoke with Andrew Lawton of the Conservative Party who thinks that this is just going to open up a whole new can of worms and perhaps present new problems, although we're trying to solve these old ones.

And then Tony Chapman joined us to talk about the Burger Wars. I contend that the CEO of McDonald's is a genius because everybody's talking about the big arch. He says absolutely not. He'll let you know why he said, he said when a guy eats a burger like a vegan, he's got no place being the CEO of a burger joint. So let's get right into it.

It's the Ben Mulroney Show podcast. Old man Mulroney coming to you, coming at you from the 640 Toronto here in downtown Toronto on the Chorus Radio Network. Yep, I was gone Friday, Saturday and Sunday because I was celebrating my birthday. I'm 50 years old, Canada. I have officially now lived in Toronto for half my life. And before we jump into the news, I just want to tip my hat and say thank you to my brother, Nick, who organized the best birthday for me. I couldn't have asked for anything else.

It was exactly what I wanted on my birthday. It was me and my siblings and two of my best friends in the world surprised me. We went to Prince Edward County. I had a great burger at the Drake Devonshire. and then we went to my brothers to a cottage where my brother made a like the best spaghetti bolognese from scratch. We drank, we told stories, we laughed, we ate, we watched hockey, and then we went to bed. And then the next day, we went to the Midtown brewery where my brother, who knows more

about pizza than anybody, said it's the best pizza in Toronto. It's not even in Toronto. and he was absolutely right. Cacho Pepe and the Diavala pizza were just incredible. And then I went to see hoppers with my kids yesterday. So that was my 50th. And I couldn't be happier. And to everybody who has reached out, thank you.

I will get to everybody. I'll get to reply to everybody. But it's a big one. 50 is a big one. And I'm happy to be celebrating it here with you today. All right. Now to the news, because that's not real news. The news that matters, the news that actually matters, is that the price of gas, energy, everything is going up because of the impact of the war in Iran. What does it mean? Well, Canadians are feeling the effects of the Iran war at the gas pump, with prices rising as much as 16 cents per liter at least, and the cost of filling it up could soar even further. inflation is absolutely going to go up. Everything related to food obviously is going to go up again.

So that means restaurants. That means groceries. Let's not forget transportation. Uber's cabs. Just getting around. Interest rates won't go down. So this is the new normal. This is what we should be expecting for the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile, the war is proceeding. And by all accounts, the, the, air domination by Israel and the United States has not abated. You'll remember that on the very first day of the war, the Supreme Leader, the Ayatollah, was killed. But I think it looks like this could go on for a while. How do I know? Because the new Iranian leader... Same as it ever was. Yep. Second verse, same as the first.

The Iran has named their new leader. he's pretty much the same as the old one. Let's listen to the announcement. So they're jazzed. Their leader of our leader, our leader of our leader, they end up to end up dead. And it's, uh, it's an amazing, amazing thing that's taking place before your eyes, because for 47 years, we were pushed around. Last, I think it was last week, he said something like,

um, we just keep, they keep, they keep elevating people and we keep killing him. He's like, even, even on the other side of the world, I'm creating jobs. And it was, look, you got to be able to laugh a little bit, uh, because otherwise you'll cry. Okay. So who is this guy? His name is, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Mostaba Kamenei. And so who is he? Widely viewed as a hardliner, deeply tied to Iran's security establishment, especially the IRGC. He's aligned with the most anti-Western, most conservative veins in that country.

So what does this signal? It signals continuity, not reform. And essentially, this is the regime. flipping off the west. I would also like to point out that he's the son of the former leader. So all of a sudden, this Nepo baby is not looking so bad to you, is he? Just had to say that too.

Now, you'll remember last week, there was an inspirational moment when the women's Iranian national soccer team was playing, I believe, the Philippines. And in a moment of defiance, they refused to sing the national anthem. And I remember watching that. I thought that that's bravery. That's absolute bravery.

But it hadn't occurred to me that these women at some point would have to go home. And now we're dealing with that. Five members of Iran's soccer team have been granted asylum in Australia after reportedly escaping their government minors during the Asian Cup. got a little tricky because it looked for a while like Australia's prime minister told them that they would not be able to get asylum in Australia. President Trump said that the PM told him the woman had been taken care of. He added it that other team members felt compelled to return because they had family, right?

They were willing to suffer whatever, whatever's going to happen to them, but they wanted to be there with their family. But yeah, the team, there's a lot of concern after they refused to sing the national anthem. And then later appeared to sing it under pressure, raising fears of coercion and retaliation. But yeah, apparently Donald Trump had to step in to convince the Australians to let these women stay. And we are going to be talking about this from a lot of different angles today. not the least of which, because I'm a little concerned. I'm a little concerned. Everything that I read today, there was one line that I read in a Globe and Mail story about what's going on in Iran,

which is that in the first few days of the war, there seemed to be a lot of popular support in the streets for this military intervention by the United States and Israel. But now we're not seeing, we're not seeing a lot of anti-government action. and I am somebody who believes that this is a moral and just decision to go after this, this regime. But I assumed that there was some plan in place for the people to rise up and not rise up with sticks and stones, mind you. look, the CIA does dirty stuff all the time. But if you're going to do something dirty and if you're going to arm people, then my hope is that over the past few years, they've somehow been arming resistance fighters and militias in Iran.

And if that hasn't happened yet, I don't know how they're supposed to rise up against a newly emboldened regime with this new leader. And the IRGC firmly, firmly in, I don't know if they're in control, but they know what they've got to do. And the only way to stop them if the people aren't going to rise up is for American and Israeli boots to be on the ground. And I don't know that the American people have the stomach for American troops on the ground in the Middle East. I'm pretty sure the Israelis are going to do what they have to do, but I do not believe that the American people have the stomach for another Middle Eastern war

where American troops will die. So I hope that we just simply haven't seen it yet. My hope is that that's been happening on bubbling under the surface and secretly, and one day they're going to get activated. But if they're not, then this is going to become a completely different dynamic at home and indeed in the Middle East. All right, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, Andrew Lawton, the MP,

the conservative MP is going to call in where we're going to talk about Bill C9 and why the conservatives oppose removing an exemption for religious speech that could be viewed by some as hate speech. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulrudey show. Every family tree holds. extraordinary stories, especially those of the women who shaped who we are. In honor of

International Women's Month, Ancestry invites you to shine a light on their legacy. Until March 10th, enjoy free access to over 4 billion family history records and discover where they lived, the journeys they took, and the legacy they left behind. Start with just a name or place and let our intuitive tools guide you. Visit Ancestry.ca to start today. No credit card required. Terms supply. If you are anything like me, you watch and you cannot get enough of parliamentary committees on, well, it's on CPAC really, but I just watch the clips on social media. I find the information that comes out is valuable and important. And the conservatives oftentimes are the ones sort of pulling that information out.

And one of the most effective people at doing that in recent memory is our next guest. Andrew Lawton, he's the MP for Elgin St. Thomas, London South. Andrew, welcome to the show. Hey, good to be with you, Ben. That's very kind of you. It's always good to be on 640. Well, I'm glad to have an effective communicator like you here because I need you to effectively communicate to me what is happening with Bill C9. So if you can give us a Coles Notes version of what it is and where the sticking points are between you and the liberal government.

Sure. I'll try to be as quick. as I can here. On its face, Bill C-9 is saying the right things. It's the combating hate act. We don't like to see hate fester in our streets. There's been far too much of it against people of multiple faiths, in particular the Jewish community over the last couple of years. But the actual mechanisms in the bill, the things that it will change will make things difficult for the very communities it aims to protect. And one of the biggest sources of contention has been something that wasn't even part of the original bill. It was an amendment put forward by the Block Quebec law and supported by the liberals to remove longstanding protections from the criminal

code for religious speech and for citing religious scriptures. And without these protections, someone could be charged with hate speech for quoting a Bible verse that the government deems to be hateful. And this has been a red line issue for a lot of faith communities, including Jewish leaders, that no, they will not be protected. by legislation that actually risks prosecuting them for deeply held religious convictions. And all of this has been coming to ahead this week in Parliament when the liberals are trying to use parliamentary tricks to force this bill through by cutting short debate. And that's been a big source of issue for us. Andrew, I was reading up on this.

And in one of the articles I was reading it said the liberals have introduced a sub amendment to clarify that religious freedom or expression would not be stymied by ending this religious exemption. What's that all about? So if they actually wanted to send that signal, they could have left the religious defense in place. The text that they've proposed is very circular. It says, basically, don't worry, none of this will affect your right to express a religious or political viewpoint, unless that viewpoint is willfully promoting hate. But it doesn't deal with one of the biggest issues of Bill C9, which is that the bill changes the definition of hate. It changes the definition that we have had fine-tuned or,

over many years by the Supreme Court. And it's a definition that every witness who spoke to it before the Justice Committee said lowers the bar. It lowers the standard for what constitutes hate, which means that simply put, more things will be illegal to stay than under the current laws. It's just absolutely a problem. Okay, so let's get practical. Let's talk practically here.

Because I think, look, certain things are cut and dried, right? Like in the States, the Westboro Baptist Church, right? I don't think anybody these who scream at homosexuals and they picket the deaths of soldiers, and they use the Bible as a weapon. And it's very gross. And I look at that. And I say that to me is the weaponization of the Bible. But then I got to, like, give me an example of somebody, like where it could get tricky.

Well, look, I'll say two important things. Number one, inciting violence, threatening violence. These are always and already illegal, and they are not subject to the religious defense. So no one can use the religious defense to threaten violence, to incite violence. That's illegal and will remain illegal. Where we get into Dicey or territory is that there are a range of social, moral, gender, and sexual questions where people have differing opinions. And look, I would point to the very Newfeld case in British Columbia,

where him talking about gender was met with a human rights tribunal decision that invokes a lot of the same language, a lot of the same discussions that are at issue in Bill C9. And that is, I think, an example of where we would probably see this invoked, or at least see someone try to invoke it to stymie political opposition. But one of the challenges here is that because they're changing a definition, we're talking about speech. It's so subjective. We don't know where the line is going to end up falling.

And that ambiguity on something where you want absolute clarity is part of the problem here. And is the fear, Andrew, that we could, if we implement something like this, we could be going down the same road that the UK has gone down where people seem to get arrested for reposting a meme on social media? Yeah. And when I had, you know, the justice minister, Sean Fraser, before Justice Committee, committee a couple of months back, I asked him point blank about that. And he was very clear that Bill C9 will apply to social media and what people say, say online. And we have seen in the

UK that, like, you know, literally, police knocking on people's door because someone was offended by something they posted on Twitter or Facebook. And look, we could have a confluence of some pretty bad things going on. On one hand, a law like this, if in fact it comes to pass and we, like I said, We start emulating the UK. But when you couple it with what I see increasingly is ideologically untethered judges who don't seem to live in the same world that everybody else does, that could supercharge something like this. Yeah. And I think one of the big problems that we've seen with the existing laws, especially when it comes to just the brazen anti-Semitism in recent years, is selective enforcement of them. and introducing new laws is not going to solve these underlying problems without a change, quite frankly, in political leadership.

And that is, I think, where we need to look at how do we protect these people that have been subject to massive hate. But the answer, and what they've been crying out for, is not new legislation that harms the communities that the government claims Bill C-9 is there to protect. Talk to me about the filibuster. How long did you talk for? Well, look, we were of the mind that we did not hear enough testimony on the actual issue at hand. This came in through an amendment. We never had the opportunity to hear from witnesses about it. We have had concerns from Canadians that we've wanted to read into the record. We have had several meetings about this, but none that have really gotten to the crux of it.

And ultimately, we have had tens of thousands of Canadians that we know for sure have called MPs offices, have written us letters. and I think it's been important to make sure their voices have been heard. The liberals have been trying to frame the conservatives as obstructionist on this file. And listen, I listen to people, there are people who are taking that and running with it. What do you tell those people who have been told you're the sticking point, you're the problem? Well, look, bad legislation should not pass. We are talking about legislation that will fund it. fundamentally erode freedom of protection and religious freedom.

And I think it's important to raise the stakes and make sure Canadians are aware of that. At a certain point, the religious defense that was removed was a bargain that the liberals made with the block to get enough support to pass this legislation. And we have not been given any assurances from the liberals that charter rights will be protected except beyond this checkbox that they've been trying to check to say, well, you have charter freedoms, therefore they'll be protected. And I brought it back to the Emergencies Act decision, where Justin Trudeau use very similar language and said, this won't affect your charter rights because you have charter rights. And then the federal court and federal court of appeal found that was basically

a lie. So we're trying to prevent the government from passing legislation that will erode freedoms that need protection now more than ever. So what do you do now? It seems like they've found the way past you or through you, rather. So what do you do? Well, look, I think we continue to make sure Canadians are aware of this. I know there are some liberal members of parliament that I've spoken to that have grave concerns with Bill C9, and certainly they've been hearing from constituents as well who are not happy with it. The liberals could still do the right thing. They could still decide to allow this to go through the process naturally. Again, I'm becoming less optimistic now that they're using some of these

tricks to try to close debate. But you know what? This is not a partisan issue. We're talking about fundamental freedoms that should have unanimity. And, you know, I've been glad the NDP, the Green Party, they've been very clear on this bill. It hasn't just been coming from conservatives. There's a lot of condemnation from the left and from the right, from civil liberties groups, from multiple faith groups. So we're going to keep it up until we can't anymore. Andrew Lotton, thank you so much. Keep up the fight. I appreciate it. Where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be.

This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila.ca. Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in-store and online, though some may vary. I'm not an astronaut. I don't need an astronaut. Audiences have spoken.

Project Hail Mary is an awe-inspiring masterpiece. So, I met an alien. If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Ryan Gosling, in the first must-see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, only beaters March 20th. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and please welcome one of my favorite people whose brain just operates on a level that mine does not. That's why we bring him in is Tony Chapman, the host of the award. winning podcast, Chatter That Matters, and founding partner of Chatter AI.

Tony, welcome. Always a pleasure, man. Okay, so we got to talk about the McDonald's CEO and the viral video of him eating a burger product in a way that just sent the internet going nuts. And the knock-on effect was every other burger chain, big and small, emulating and copying this. So what do you make of it? Well, the great thing is, here's the McDonald's CEO thinking he can be an actor, biting into a big arch.

Now, remember that name, big arch. He takes this thing and he describes the size of it. And then he takes a nibble out of the burger. We're not even talking a bite. Yeah. We're talking about what a vegan would do if you handed them a hamburger. You couldn't even see their teeth bark. And of course, the internet erupted.

And he calls it a product, not even food. And of course, the competitors jump in. Burger King's always in McDonald's kitchen. So they say this is what biting into a whopper feels like, and he's just drooling the sauce down. The only thing I need is a napkin. A&W jumps in, but where I would have loved A&W. You mentioned A&W.

Let's listen to that one because that was pretty good too. Alan from A&W here with, you heard about it. Here it is, the Teen Burger. We love this burger product, which most people call. a burger. It has a unique bread that some people would call a bun, but really the star is what's inside. I mean, we've got the lettuce, which is green and pickles, which make it taste pickly. It's all very funny, but go on with your thought. Well, so interesting enough, when you have low-hanging burger like this, if I was A&W, I would have put a family out, a grandpa, mama,

teenager, taking their family of burgers and show how each one of them bites into their burger. So I think they missed an opportunity to really personalize it. It was CEO versus CEO, where I think A&W should have said CEO versus our consumer. And this is how our consumer consumes it. But otherwise, the lesson learned, first of all, that social media person should never allow that thing to go out. But Tony, like, let me play a devil's advocate here for a second. I mean, this video that showed off the big arch or whatever it's called would not, never have gone as far and wide, were it not for the awkwardness of the CEO. And they're trying to launch a new burger.

And everybody saw it. Everybody knows it exists now. And he'll never live that down. You think even five years from now, if he's still the CEO, every franchisee of McDonald's, these are blue-collar workers. These are people that make their money on a grill are going to just say, who is running our shop that can't even bite into our own product? So I think that, I mean, the reality is if you're going to be into the social media, you have to realize that the influencers that influence actually know how to act to act. They know how to play to their audience. They know how to create attention.

And what the CEO did is the opposite happened, didn't know how to act, didn't know how to take a bite and caught the wrong of attention. So I think it put the big arch on the sideward spiel. And I got to give kudos to how fast Burger King reacted. Wendy's reacted. Yeah. And obviously, as I said with A&W, I would have just, if I was revising AEDAW, say, get the family out there, the teen eating the teen burger, grandpa, eating the grandburger.

Other than that, though, it's a lot of fun. Yep. And, you know, sometimes it's great to have the Cola Wars and the Burger Wars to remind you that the categories still exist. Listen, I always defer to you, but I'm going to wait to see what the quarterly reports yield. And if the big arch is a massive success, I'm going to call you back on the show to ask you if your perception of the CEO has changed. And if it isn't, I want you to call me back on to the show and then we'll eat a big arch properly in front of your cameras. And I'll show you how to

bite into a product that you're excited about versus nibble into a burger. So my daughter and I just had a long debate about the impact of AI on art and artistry and artists. And it was a fascinating conversation with a girl who is actually very talented. She's got a lot of, she's got an artist soul. And so for her, there's no room for AI in art. And now it looks like the IHart Media Group is, they have these AI generated digital channels. And so they've decided that that as of March 26, what is it,

they're going to have the guaranteed human strategy? Yeah, I think what they're trying to say to the world is that AI is going to be pervasive than everywhere. I mean,

you can create songs with AI. It's remarkable you can do with this technology, but there will be an appetite for human interaction, imperfection of humans. Ben, I could absolutely clone your voice,

have you speaking in Mandarin, take your entire show out in seconds. It doesn't matter. It still needs you, your heart, your passion, what you get angry about, how you look at the camera, your little ear pods, all the whole identity that you created, you can't replicate that with AI, which you can't take the soul and put it out there.

What you can do is you can clone what you've created. Yeah. But I'll tell you something. I think your daughter's right in the sense that we're going to create human interaction. And I mark my words the same time you're going to call me and say you're right on the burger thing. We're going to see a brand come out and go and talk about how many humans were involved in creating this brand.

As more and more people lose their jobs to AI, the counterpoint will be, much like we're seeing Made in Canada right now, we'll see Made with Humans. So, and listen, I completely co-sign everything you just said. But I was talking to a friend, like a song written and produced and all put together by AI. That's one thing. But, you know, I love these AI reinventions of songs, right? You know the song, Lightning Crashes by Live? There's a version.

There's a 50s R&B soul version that was done with AI. So the song was written. The lyrics were written by a human being. So they have that, they have meaning. They're rooted in humanity. The melody, all that stuff. But somebody just put it into a computer and turned it into a different style. I kind of like that.

To me, I was like, that's kind of a cool thing because the human element is still in it. Yeah, and the frightening thing about it is you can ask your AI to take in every possible genre. And if I'm a, let's argue, I'm a songwriter and I'm stuck. I could take a song that was a hit song and ask my AI to twist it around a little bit. So I'm not violating IP and create something. And that's really the reality of AI. It's going to be your muse. But I'll tell you something.

There's places like Suno. I don't know if you've gone on Suno. Try Suno with your daughter and create a song about your daughter and how special she is. And send it to her and she'll be blown away. And you could do it in any genre you want just by putting in five or six words about her. And it's going to change our life. But again, I think the essence of this topic is it's also going to make us crave the imperfections and the soul of human beings. because we're going to see so much AI content come at us.

And I think on the other side of it is we're going to just really want to remember, just like people are moving back to nature, gardening, growing their own vegetables, all of this stuff, pottery, things that I'm doing with my hands. I think there are also the pendulum coming back from saying, I just typed stuff and I put it out in the cloud. I have no idea what I've created. I have no idea if this was a good day's work. People are returning a bit to their roots, and I think that's a good thing. All right.

Lastly, we got to talk about the cheese war that's brewing. So putteen every now and then you just need a good putteen. And one of the three main ingredients into putine is a cheese curd. But now Quebec dairy producers want a special protected designation for cheese curds that they say only curds produced in Quebec should be called that. And if you're making them from outside of Quebec, you can't call them that or you shouldn't be able to call them that. Ontario cheesemakers have a problem with that. In about 45 seconds, tell me your thoughts. It's a custody battle.

It's very French because champagne, 1891, was the one that it insisted that only champagne could be grown and produced in the region of champagne. France institutionalized it. We've seen it with roquefort cheese. This one's going to be hard to do because they should have moved on this a decade ago. And now I would say that a lot of people could take credit for Putin. Same thing happened in Quebec with maple syrup. They want to be the official maple syrup because of their maple trees.

very difficult to hold up in court. You have to go after it right early on. So I think it's a cultural war, a custody battle, that they're going to lose. All right, we got to run. Thank you, my friend. I'll see you soon. Firefighters missed their lives every single day.

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