The Ben Mulroney Show - Iran situation continues to worsen and oddities in drinks on the market

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

-Eric Kam -Sylvain Charlebois Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show on June 19th. It's Thursday, June 19th, 2025. And the war in between Israel and Iran is heating up. There are concerns that it might spill spin out of control, but the lay of the land today is is shocking. I mean, my producer and I go to bed every night wondering what are we going to wake up to? And we woke up to Iran quite literally bombing an Israeli hospital. And this, we need to unpack this. So it's called the Soroka Hospital. And the images are clear. The videos from inside are clear.

The images of the exterior are clear. The bomb targeted this hospital. Iran targeted this hospital. And we know full well that Iran's policy in these bombings is to target civilian areas. They like to suggest that they're targeting civilian areas because they also act as military installations, secretly hiding F-35s in the parking garage of Tel Aviv high rises. And this was apparently, the target of this hospital was apparently a military complex that was next door. It is not next door. It is two kilometers away, if that, if that. And so, not for nothing, in on the 17th of October 2023, 10 days after Hamas raped

and pillaged and murdered its way through Southern Israel, killing essentially affecting a one-day Holocaust in Southern Israel that launched us into this entire ordeal. There was an explosion at a hospital in Gaza City and the Hamas Health Ministry or whatever the hell it's called said Israel bombed a hospital and the entire world press, including the BBC and the CBC and God knows what else

jumped on that like a fat kid on cake and said, look at this, look at the, look the inhumanity, the monsters of Israel killing Killing these these our foreign minister Melanie Jolie put out a tweet condemning Israel for killing people at this hospital Turns out wasn't Israel. In fact, it was a it was a Missile that was fired by Hamas that misfired that ended up in the parking lot So that's how the Hamas that misfired, that ended up in the parking lot. So that's how the world treated that.

In this case, before ever saying what actually happened, the BBC felt it was incumbent upon them to verify the videos. So you take Hamas's word for it when it serves them, but when Israel gets bombed, oh, now we have to verify it to make sure they're not lying. Okay, that's an apples to apples comparison.

And just remember that every single time you are fed something from certain news sources, because certain news sources, they love to suggest that they are fair and balanced. They absolutely are not. I just gave you a very prime example of it. And so because of this, you know, now you're targeting, now you're targeting Jews where they live and where they work and where they are sick. The Israeli defense minister has come out

and said Iran's supreme leader, the Ayatollah quote, can no longer be allowed to exist. That's the defense minister. And Israel doesn't write checks that they can't cash. So when I hear that, we know that seven days ago, there was a plan put forth to kill the Ayatollah, just take them out. And Donald Trump asked asked Israel to pump the brakes. I don't know that the brakes are going to get pumped many more times. And if they say something like that, I'm pretty sure it's because they know they can do it. We've seen them pull off some MacGyver style,

James Bond style, incredible, great escape, mission impossible style capers in, you know, the beepers that exploded all simultaneously and uh and the drones that they had somehow gotten into central iran weeks or months ago. Uh this they they are they're playing 4d chess so if they say they can do something pretty sure it's because they know they can. And I don't know that Donald Trump is going to be the guy to tell them to pump the brakes anymore. Not when at the inside the Iranian parliament yesterday, there is imagery of a number of the parliamentarians

getting together at the front of the parliament and standing at the podium, burning a US flag and chanting death to America in the seat of their parliament. Let's listen. Yeah. Um, does, do you think, do you think that's going to make Donald Trump more or less eager to allow Israel to do what they say they want to do. So that's one kind of chant and you would you would think to yourself my goodness like

they really don't like us there they really the Iranian people really don't like the fact that they're coming for our regime. But that's not necessarily the case. We just heard one version of chanting. Let's listen to another take on chanting this time from young girls in a school taking off their hijabs. And this is dozens if not hundreds of little girls inside a school. And let's listen to their screams of protest. They're screaming death to the dictator, young girls at a school, dozens if not hundreds of them, putting themselves in a position to be killed for their protest by this regime. And so I'm looking at you, Fred Hahn, the president of CUPI Ontario. I'm looking at you, CUPI Ontario, who elected Fred Han, all of you who are coming out with your hands-off Iran

protest. I'm looking at every single social justice warrior that goes to sleep at night, warm in the self-righteous belief that you are on the right side of history. By defending this regime, you are giving them the runway to go find these girls and kill these girls. Remember when Boko Haram abducted all those young girls, bring our girls home?

Where is your sympathy for these girls who have put targets on their backs by simply taking off their hijabs by normalizing and making it harder to go do the hard work that needs to be done to give the people of Iran a chance to rise up and cast off the shackles of this repressive extension of Nazism. You people are making it easier for them to find these girls and kill these girls. I'm not saying you're pulling the trigger, but you're saying, Hey guys, let's give them some time. Hands off, guys. Hands off.

While our hands are off them, their hands are on the friggin' trigger. They will burn these girls, they will rape these girls, they will imprison these girls, they will kill these girls as sure as I am sitting here and you know it. But your hatred of Israel, your hatred of Jews clouds you from that certainty that these girls' lives are in danger. So Fred Hahn, wake up from your friggin fugue state, put down your hatred of Israel, and appreciate what you're actually doing, what bargain you're actually looking to cast.

Look at that. If these girls die, I've named you, I've shamed you, but the problem is you have no shame. So all we can go with is your name. But every one of you who is convinced that you are high and mighty, every one of you who's convinced that you are so self-righteous in your mission, you will lead. Your actions will help these people kill these girls. Welcome back to the Ben Mulrooney Show. Always a great pleasure whenever you join us here on the show and you may be joining us on the radio or in podcast form or on a streaming

app and now on YouTube. So find us wherever we are because we want to find you wherever you are. All right, we're joined now by a distinguished professor at the Royal Military College of Canada and the editor inin-chief of the Canadian Military Journal, Christian Luperrecht. Christian, thank you so much for joining us. Ben, it's my pleasure. Hello. I'm so glad you're here because, you know, you've written a piece that I think bears drilling down on about where do we go from here as a nation. As Donald Trump has essentially told us, we need to re-evaluate who we are and who we trade with and what we trade with them.

It's almost as if in your piece you're harkening back to an earlier time where the transatlantic trade was the end all be all. The relationship between Canada, the United States, and Europe. That was the vast majority of our trade long before the rise of Asia as an important trade route and a source of allies on all sorts of fronts. Is that what you're getting at, that we need to return to prioritizing transatlantic? So we need to understand why the transatlantic is strategically important as a relationship for Canada.

So, yes, you're right that so if you look at the United States, for instance, since World War Two, like over the last decades, trade with Europe has makes up about 25% of trade for the US today, it made up 42% decades ago after World War Two. And there's some similar dynamics that have played for Canada. The problem is for Canada, the relationship with the United States is not just of course the dominating relationship,

but with free trade, it has become even more important. And we've, I think, sort of more by sins of omission, drawn even closer to the United States and have forgotten the importance of the relationship with Europe as a way to counterbalance the United States and vagaries of US political unilateralism. And so we've just kind of coasted over the years and failed to understand why Europe and the relationship with Europe is existential for Canadian sovereignty, because without those European allies, Canada has no other option but to draw even closer than to the United States.

Now, you're absolutely right. When I think of trade, I never think about Canada sending goods over to the UK or to France or to Germany. You know, we hear about the missed opportunities of potentially sending over our liquefied natural gas, for example, to places like Germany to dislodge their dependence on Russian energy. But beyond that, so the conversation sort of ends there. I'd love to talk a little bit about sort of the military procurement part of it all because I was always under the impression that we went for the best deal for the Canadian taxpayer. What piece of machinery do we need? What point is it going to serve and how much

does it cost? And whoever can check the boxes and get us the best deal, that's where we would go, whether it be the United States or Europe. Am I misreading that dynamic? So look, if we want the best deal, we can do what the BC government just did and buy our equipment from China. If you're looking for quality, quantity, and deliver on time, on budget, and on capability, the Chinese beat everybody. In part because of course they have illegal state subsidies all over their corporate structure. So there's more to it than simply the bottom line in terms of sort of where we put our money.

And so our money is inherently always also a strategic investment in terms of strategic relationships. And certainly with the relationship, the opportunities that exist with Europe, given the importance of NATO as a multilateral political organization, I would like to say that NATO is probably Canada's most important multilateral organization because it gives us an outsized voice among countries that share our way of looking at the world. And of course, if you're going to be part of NATO, one of the three C's of NATO is contributions.

And because Canada has not been able to make significant contributions, and you can measure that for instance, in terms of the assignments of deputy chief of staff officers in key positions and so forth, it means that Canada's voice has significantly been diminished. And so investing in that defense procurement relationship with Europe isn't just about getting us tanks or artillery pieces or submarines or whatnot. It is also about buying ourselves some influence in a key multilateral organization

where we can punch above our weight. Because if we don't have that, we're going to be in a situation like Australia where we're going to have to spend a lot more on defense, a lot more on foreign affairs, and get a much lower rate of return. And I absolutely appreciate that as well because in my estimation for years, we sort of would stand just behind the Americans and let them do the heavy lifting. But I guess what I didn't think the knock-on effect was, or didn't think about the knock-on effect, was that by standing behind them and having them do everything for us, more or less, we weren't speaking

up for ourselves. We weren't standing up for Canadian values at the table, again, if we disagreed with one of our allies like the United States, it was in an effort to skate by, we silenced ourselves. So first, I would say we don't stand up for Canadian values, we stand up for Canadian interests. It's just that we've been very good at masking our interests as Canadian values. And that's what we've sold to the population. The problem is

that's increasingly not working for two reasons. One because of both domestic electoral priorities and the broader structural changes within the world. The US's gaze is shifting to the Indo-Pacific and this is why for instance the Deputy Secretary of for Defense, Eldridge Colby, the number three in the US DOD, talks about burden shifting. It's not just about burden sharing, burden shifting. Allies taking on more responsibility simply because the interests of the US are increasingly diverging from that of allies.

It's also been very convenient. For 75 years, really Canada, in many ways like our european allies haven't really had to make a lot of difficult decisions about our foreign policy because we can just kind of dropped behind the united states and when things got difficult and security defense we just kind of let the united states make those decisions and to those to that stretch i would say two things one is look at the last thirty years is leaving international security policy to the americans how well has And to that stretch, I would say two things. One is, look at the last 30 years. Is leaving international security policy to the Americans, how well has that really worked

out for the world? And the other is, of course, foreign policy is deeply divisive, especially in a diverse country such as Canada. I think both in Europe and in Canada, politicians would rather not have an honest conversation about foreign policy, because they know it would be extremely difficult to get everybody on the same page. And for Canada, of course, our single greatest national unity crisis was over a foreign policy issue, which is conscription. And every Canadian politician knows that.

Yeah, but to me, that feels like such a long, long time ago. And you're right, if we don't have the fighting force and the ability to project Canadian interests abroad, then that's a conversation we don't have to have as a country, easy or difficult. And so you're right, when you create the foundation for a stronger military, then you also create the associated political risks that go along with having that military. In other words, having to make decisions about whether or not to put Canadians in harm's way. It's a very, very interesting knock on effect that I hadn't considered.

That was the decision, I think, implicitly by the previous government over the last 10 years, that if we don't invest in capabilities, then we also can't be cornered into making difficult decisions because we can simply say we can't actually do it and we're maxed out. But I think what the Carney government understands is that the Canadian Armed Forces are arguably Canada's, they are a foreign policy instrument, and arguably Canada's most important foreign policy instrument. And so what we've also diminished is precisely our ability to have a voice and to assert our interests by way of that instrument and all of the people who think for instance of NATO as a military

organization I would remind them the people in charge of NATO is the North Atlantic Council which are ultimately the politicians the heads of state and government of the NATO member countries and so this is how we assert our interests and in the world where our interests are diverging from the S and where we need new friends and allies and we need them quickly. This is the instrument to secure those friends and allies. Christian Lupec, I really appreciate it. Eye-opening conversation. All the best to you. Ben, great conversation. Thank you. Just fascinating. I had never thought about that. Thank you. Just fascinating.

I had never thought about that. If you don't, if you starve your military, then you never have to make the difficult political decision to put Canadians in harm's way. And I don't know if that was an active decision by the liberal government of Justin Trudeau, but it certainly came in handy where, of course we can't go into this war zone or that war zone or participate in this military exercise or work with our allies that may be a political liability for me. That to me was probably the most important takeaway from that conversation with Christian Luprecht and I really do hope to have him on the show again. We're going to do a

lot of talking after the break with our good friend Eric Kam. We've got a lot of really interesting stories to get to. Apparently Donald Trump is getting into the mobile phone game. Because of course, of course he is. And it's a brilliant strategy where he's the president, but his family that runs Trump Enterprises or whatever it is, they just keep monetizing his name. So don't go anywhere. That's coming up on the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show.

Thank you for listening to us wherever you listen to us, because you might listen on the radio or streaming or on a podcast platform, or now you may watch us, because you might listen on the radio or streaming or on a podcast platform, or now you may watch us on YouTube. So just search up Ben Mulroney show and enjoy us, you know, with pictures now. We're joined now by Eric Kam, economics professor at Toronto Metropolitan University. We've got some economic stories to discuss. Eric, welcome to the show. Benedict, you wanted good news. Today we have good news. But don't forget, I was told I have a face for radio. Well, you have a face for radio. But now, whether you like it or not, you're on YouTube.

So thank you very much. Eric, let's talk about Donald Trump. There's never been a business that he didn't want to jump into. And he sold stakes and ties and steak knives and universities and shirts and you name it. He's a shoe. We got those shoes that he sold. It started getting a little murky when the Trump name as president was being leveraged, was being leveraged to sell things,

but he was president. And now we hear he's getting into the mobile phone and mobile carriers game Well, he is and he isn't so luckily to prepare for your show I did a little research on this and this is something called an MVNO It's a mobile virtual network operator, which is a fun way of saying It's a mobile virtual network operator, which is a fun way of saying it's a wireless service provider that does not own anything.

It does not own any infrastructure. It doesn't own any cell towers. It basically leases network access from established mobile companies and you know the big names. Yeah. Also this phone that apparently he said was going to be revolutionary is a very old phone made in China called a Wing Tech Revel 7 Pro 5G. Now I have absolutely no idea what that is.

But the point is, is it's not a new phone, it's not a new network. It is literally, as you said, it's putting the Trump name onto something brand new. So it has no competitive pricing position, it has no economic ripple effect. What does it have? It has brand driven appeal.

So if you're a person that enjoyed Trump's stakes when you went to Trump University, maybe you'll enjoy your Trump phone. But in terms of economics, this is nothing to stay up at night and worry about. But I will tell you what is interesting. I mean, he is claiming that it's a phone built in America. And we know that based on the specs,

it's probably a phone that's phone built in America. And we know that based on the specs, it's probably the phone that's actually built in China. But given the fact that what what defines something quote unquote built in America, for all we know, the phone comes over and they put this gold backing on it, and boom, it's made in America. Well, exactly. And so we should be questioning a lot of things that are made in here or made in there, because first of all, cell phones, like many other things, are made up of many, many, it's called intermediate goods. And those intermediate goods come from a lot of places.

So, you know, it's a little bit like when people say, oh, I'm sad that Florida won the Stanley Cup. Guess what? Florida had more Canadians than the Edmonton Oilers. So let's be skeptical of this one, Ben. All right, well, talking about things that are actually made in one place. We do know that Canadian wines are produced in Canada.

And I remember going to New Brunswick a few years ago when I was on television and I went to the oldest winery in North America. And the owner of the winery told me that it was harder for him to sell his goods across the border to Nova Scotia than it was to sell them to China. And all that to say, you know, hopefully the inter-provincial trade barriers will make it a lot easier for him and companies like his to sell across the country. But a brand is only as

successful as the markets it has access to. And it seems that Canadian wineries are having a difficulty selling their wines now across the border to the United States. And therefore, they're looking for those new markets. And they better find them. I mean, Canada is the single largest export destination for US wine, you're talking approximately $1.1 billion a year, that's 35% of all US wine

exports. So you're talking a great amount of money and a great amount of product. So the bottom line for the US, Ben, is this is a huge economic blow. If you look at retail losses, disruptive value chains, supply chains, this market could be permanently wounded, but since we live north of the border, this is a real benefit for domestic producers, right?

The way we see it is as an opportunity. Let's, let's take BC's wine industry. It's already worth about 3.75 billion. And imagine what it could be worth if it sold, well, not purely Canadian wine, but no U S wine. You're talking about a lot more jobs, a lot more taxes collected, even possibly a lot more tourism money. if you combine that with the low Canadian dollar. So I think Canada's move here has to be impactful and symbolic, right?

There's going to be some symbolic collateral damage if you want to look at possible job losses for the importers and a narrow choice for consumers. But I like to look at this a little bit like an infant industry argument. Usually we use taxes to cut off the other countries from ourselves, and now we kind of have a more natural barrier in these Trump tariffs. So let's use this opportunity and cultivate our wine industry because it really can only go up

if you think about it. Well, yeah, honestly, with climate change, that can be used to the benefit of a lot of these places, perhaps not in the BC interior, where it's all seemingly on fire every year, but in places like, like the Niagara region in in in Ontario, the temperatures getting to the point where you can really be growing really interesting varietals of grapes. Okay. I always love saying something that is so, it sounds like a big pronouncement, but it's not, because it's par for the course these days.

AI is changing everything. But it seems to me, in the case of Amazon, it's changing everything, not just for the consumer, because once you go to their website or you go to their app, that AI helper is there to help you find stuff you never knew you needed. But Amazon is suggesting that AI is going to change its workforce. It is going to change their workforce. But on a macro level,

not to divert the question, what is AI not going to change? That's what I've been thinking about. I mean, Amazon is a company that you could almost automate it very simply on so many levels, especially in the warehouse. So it got me to thinking that since there's such a major player in so many markets, if we're sitting in Canada, what are the jobs most at risk by AI? And I thought about things like administrative and clerical jobs, retail customer service, transportation, again, warehousing, and

some manufacturing. But you know, again, since we're looking at the glass half full today, Ben, what are the jobs that are likely to grow or transform thanks to the Amazon model? And I think things like healthcare and eldercare, things like AI development and maintenance, and of, creative strategic roles. And everyone always says skilled trades. I mean, you're talking about many jobs that still need a human being. And so for those people, AI can at best be a compliment, but not a substitute. Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, look at the skilled trades. For example, if I want to renovate my kitchen, the

skilled tradesman could use AI if I want to renovate my kitchen, the skilled tradesmen could use AI to build out the kitchen of my dreams virtually in a minute. You come into the house, you talk to me, and then an app will spit out exactly what I want. And then the tradesman has to come in and do it. But you're cutting out the entire middleman and the time crunch required to put those designs into practice. And the same thing goes with doctors. If you can free them up from the paperwork that is bogging them down and clogging up their time and really forcing them to burn out, then you're going to have doctors be the best versions of themselves. The one place I do not

see AI replacing people at all is frontline politicians, like the elected politicians. We will never ask a robot to do that kind of job. No, and of course, no robot could do your job because you're so good at it. Oh, well, thank you. But what we have to look at in Canada now, Ganglas Half Full, they that in a report that I saw in 2023 that about 40% of Canadian jobs could be disrupted by AI. But luckily, not lost to AI, disrupted. This is a time for innovation. This is a time for possibly let Canada be a leader.

If so many jobs are gonna be disrupted by AI, we have to figure out how many of those jobs can be enhanced. As I said, a compliment, not a substitute. So let's not worry about AI wiping out jobs. Let's worry about how we can use AI to leverage the jobs that exist and create new ones. Now, last week we talked about AI in the classrooms and how you're going back to the sort of analog world

of testing, but is AI complimenting you in your work behind the scenes? Not tremendously yet. And of course, you're talking about half of what I do. So in terms of teaching, is it complementing it? No, the other half, the far less glamorous half, the researching and the publishing. Yeah, yes, because now it's far easier to go to AI and ask for things like

literature reviews, which used to take forever. So the publishing. Yeah, yes, because now it's far easier to go to AI and ask for things like literature reviews, which used to take forever. So the research part that most people never know. Yes. All right. No, it's difficult. Eric Kemp, thank you so much. We appreciate your time. Stay healthy, Ben. All right. Don't go anywhere. When we come back, we're talking with the food professor himself, Sylvain Charlebois, about crazy trends in drinks. Don't go anywhere. about crazy trends in drinks. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. I love that song Sledgehammer but I loved the TV show Sledgehammer in the 80s. Anyone remember that show? It was like a cop comedy featuring Sledgehammer. That was the actor, some blonde actor. I can't remember what his name was. He's

been a bit player in lots of stuff but in in the 80s, he had a big role on a show called Sledgehammer. Very, very funny. Anyway, welcome back to the show. Now we're gonna talk about fads in drinks. I'm a black coffee guy, full stop. If I'm gonna drink anything else, I'm drinking water. And every now and then when I go to the movies,

I have a Coke Zero. I mean, every now and then I'll have an orange juice and something like that, maybe a smoothie. But by and large, those are the three buckets. Coffee, water, Coke Zero. I mean, and every now and then I'll have an orange juice and something like that, maybe a smoothie. But by and large, those three are those are the three buckets. Coffee, water, Coke Zero. There are some weird trends out there that people are jumping on board with and spending a lot of their disposable income on. And so to discuss them all, we're joined by Sylvain Charlebois.

Nope, not yet. And so anyway, lots of these weird trends there. We're going to get into them with him because there are a lot of them I've never heard of before, but there is one that I remember maybe 10 years ago. There was the trend of a bulletproof coffee. And it was this idea of putting butter in your coffee with something called MCT oil. And then you used a frother to mix it all together. And it actually tasted better than it sounds. MCT oil, and then you used a frother to mix it all together.

And it actually tasted better than it sounds, but apparently it would improve brain function and fat burning. Now I didn't drink it enough to see if it could burn fat. I also probably drank it at a time where I was doing nothing else to burn fat. Like I probably wasn't going to the gym and probably wasn't getting my cardio in. And I was probably eating, you know, Cheetos and burgers and what have you.

But Bulletproof Coffee, I do remember. There's so many other ones here. Charcoal lattes, which is apparently something made with like it's a jet black drink made with activated charcoal. And it's claimed to fame as it detoxes your body. Now I have a friend, my friend Glenn Zuyif, best friend in the city of Toronto, who tells me there's no such thing as detoxing.

There are no toxins in your body. I don't know if that's true, but he believes it firmly. There's no such thing as detoxing. And I don't know if I would ever drink anything that has charcoal in it. And let's welcome to the show our good friend, Sylvain Charlebois, the food professor. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me, Ben. So I was just I was just listening that I'm a very simple person when it comes to the things

that I drink. I did try my hand at Bulletproof Coffee a few years ago, and it tasted fine, but I didn't drink it enough to see whether it could actually help me lose weight. Well, it's wishful thinking for sure. I mean, there's lots of things going on right now with weight loss magic for sure. Ozembic being the number one thing going on right now. It's just incredible what's going on with Ozembic and GLP-1s. A lot of people are using or on this medication to simply lose weight. We're not talking type 2 diabetes, but to lose weight. So the market

is really focusing on people that are looking to lead a healthier lifestyle, both mentally and physically as well. Well, then these, I was just saying charcoal lattes are made with activated charcoal, which must taste delicious, and claims to detox your body. But I have friends, Sylvain, who say the idea of detoxing your body from toxins is a myth. I know, I know. Do you remember the charcoal pizza? No. That we had about six or seven years ago? Charcoal pizza.

No, I don't remember charcoal pizza, but I think I've seen hamburger buns that are like jet black and I don't know whether they're made with squid ink or charcoal, but there's been a market for this. Like we've actually convinced people that I guess if you drink the charcoal or something that was charcoal, it'll absorb bad stuff in your body. I mean, it sounds like sorcery. Exactly. I think you need to be a little bit careful unless you want to entertain your guests over the weekend with black buns, you can do that. But I honestly, we tend to forget the industry sometimes struggles with the concept of innovation. They think they have to come up with wacko ideas to get engaged with consumers. Not really. I mean, yeah, you can keep it simple.

And food is all about authenticity, traditions, things like that. I mean, and people look at what happened this week with General Mills and Craft Lines. They wanna go natural. They're getting rid of all the artificial dyes in our food. So people are looking for clean labels, they're looking for natural food. Well, it doesn't get any more natural than mushrooms. It doesn't get more. And so there's mushroom coffee.

And look, we're living in a world where people are more open to the idea that mushrooms are more than what we've thought they were. There's medicinal properties, there's psychedelic properties, which can then help in mental health and addiction and that sort of thing. So what do you make of this mushroom coffee trend? Because I just don't think those two should collide in the same sentence. So here's the economic argument here. So coffee prices are going up, okay? So you have to really sell the idea to consumers. Well, this is the reason why you should be paying more for a coffee. Are you going to buy the

same thing, but 20% more? Not really. And right now, Ben, there's, there's a big struggle around proteins. Proteins are costing more and more money. If you go to the meat counter, you'll notice that beef, pork, chicken, all of these things are more expensive. So people are looking for other sources of protein. I kind of actually think that this combination between coffee and proteins and mushroom is interesting. I don't, I don't know if it's going to catch up or, I don't know if it's going to work, but it's an interesting combination. Well, then what, how, what do you make a protein water?

And then I get it. We want, we want our protein wherever we can get it. But we don't get hydrated enough. So do you need more stuff in your water other than water? I listen I agree enough water I agree although I always thought that a very successful marketing campaign would be like if I had my own water company I would like label it as a vegan or, you know, soy free or GMO free. All the stuff it already is. Glenn, did you know that there is GMO free water out there labeled as such? So that's why sometimes we treat consumers like idiots.

Okay, well, okay, treating consumers like idiots. Cricket protein bars, I get it. We shouldn't be treating consumers like idiots. Have you tried these cricket protein bars? I've never had it, I'm not looking forward to eating crickets, but look, I can understand that if you pan-fried crickets and you put some garlic and salt and pepper on them, they would just say they'd have a crunch of like a chip or a chickpea.

So- I know. There's one bar I tried it's called since you speak French you'll appreciate the name. It's called Tabac Neck. Tabar, bar, neck. That's the word. And the bar was designed for high-performance athletes. Yeah. It's a company that based out of Montreal. I actually tasted that bar. It was actually pretty good. And it was filling. Yeah. Listen, apparently that the like per per whatever measure of unit, unit of measurement, crickets are very high in protein. And I don't know what I don't know what a cricket tastes like. So if you if you covered it with a whole bunch of other flavors, I'm don't know that it would itch me out. Especially if you, because in some

cases they cook them up and they blend them into a powder, right? And they turn that into a protein paste, which then becomes a bar. Right. Do you really want to know how crickets taste like? Sure. Yeah, let me know. Really? Yeah. How's it taste? I'll invite you over for dinner. I'll serve you crickets. We'll see what happens. Lastly, I've heard of this company before. It's like a meal replacement company called Soylent. I always found this was the weirdest name for a company

because back in the day, in the 70s, there was a movie called Soylent Green. And the conceit of the movie was it was the future. And everyone was eating this thing called Soylent and turns out it was it was a recycled people and so why the heck would you call a company Soylent? I think it's I think that's the point here they just wanted to probably play around with words because most people would know of the movie they may not have seen it but they've heard of the movie and that's probably why it's a marketing stunt. It's people. Silent Green is people. Yeah, it was great. It was a great movie. It was a great movie because it was not a great movie. I

loved it. I loved it. Hey, thank you so much. Yes, let's go get lunch sometime or dinner, and let's avoid all of these foods. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, the food professor, thank you so much for joining us, Sylvain Charlebois. We'll talk to you soon. Take care. Bye-bye.