The Ben Mulroney Show - Is Donald Trump threatening to destroy the Auto Industry in Canada?

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Guests and Topics: -GM would have to consider moving plants if U.S. tariffs became permanent, CFO says with Guest: Flavio Volpe, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers Association -What exactly does Warrior Culture not woke culture in the military mean with Guest: General Rick Hillier, Retired Canadian Forces General, who served as the chief of the Defence Staff If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Now you can. With partial shares from TD Direct Investing, you can own less than one full share, so expensive stocks are within reach. Learn more at td.com slash partial shares. TD, ready for you. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. I wanna thank you so much for joining us. And these tariffs that Donald Trump keeps threatening to levy on Canada, they just keep coming from different angles. First, it was universal 25% tariffs,

and then it was gonna be on aluminum, steel, and now we're hearing about, specifically on the automotive industry, and we're hearing that if they were to become permanent that GM would have to consider moving plants to the United States. That's according to the CFO of General Motors. So joining us to talk about this and to help calm us down

because he is definitely a calming voice in this chaotic world is Flavio Volpe, the president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers Association. Flavio, welcome back to the show. Thanks so much for joining us. Serenity now, serenity later. Hoochie mama.

All right, Flavio, these tariffs, they're being proposed for April 2nd. Is there any word on what can be done to avoid them? If anything, like we had a general guideline about border protection to stop the general tariffs. But have you heard about what we can do to stop these automotive tariffs? No, and I think that's the frustration for most people who are listening today. And say, like you outlined, there's four layers

of encountering of tariffs threats, but they're not backed by paper or specific demand. The border conversation, which you and I have talked before, I don't think it was really about fentanyl, but at the very least they said, look, do something here and we'll do something there. On this one here, he is not just targeting Canadian cars, he's targeting now European cars, anybody's cars. But you know, it's starting to get people to speak up, Americans to speak up. You cited the CFO of General Motors, this is the first time we've heard from him.

But you know, I've long posited that the biggest losers in any automotive tariff fight between Canada and the US are the American automakers and American parts suppliers and CFO from General Motors says, we're not planning on anything right now, but jeez, if this was something that was long term, you know, we'd have to move things. And the CEO of Ford said, look, tariffs on Canada and Mexico would blow a hole through the US auto sector. Well, and that's the thing, Flavio. He's expecting to hear back from his cabinet on these things.

He's expecting to get reports back from his cabinet on the impacts of these things. And listen, opinions can change, and Donald Trump is entitled to his opinions that he oftentimes views as facts, but data is data. And you would know better than me, but my sense is the data that will be returned to him in the form of these reports will be something that says, don't do this, sir. If you want short and medium term pain,

the likes of which, the self-inflicted pain, you will do this, otherwise avoid this at all costs. Yeah, and I think it's important for your listeners to know that the reports that come back won't care about Canada. No one's gonna say, well, don't do this to our friends. They've died beside us and more. In 2018, when we did the exact same thing on national security, terror threats,

and investigations on cars and parts from Canada, the reports came back to Wilbur Ross, Ross was the secretary of commerce at the time and said, Oh, do it. Uh, you're going to immediately ruin, uh, the American automotive sector. And, um, you know, a lot of people worry and including people that I deal with all the time is, you know, you can send back these reports. Oh, you can, you can't. You're asking for career officials at the Department of Commerce

who are going to have to rely on information from third-party sources that legally rely. The math is the math. And popular cars made here are made by American car companies with 55% American raw materials. There's no national security threat for residents from Texas or still from Pennsylvania. And I'm glad that Americans are starting to speak up.

And they're not saying Ben, they're not saying, oh, you know what, our friends in Oakville and our friends in Oshawa, what they're saying is you're gonna ruin Dearborn and Detroit and Huntsville, Alabama. Let's live in a world though, where he doesn't care about that. Let's live in a world where he's decided that his goal

is to get all car manufacturing moving south of the border. What sort of timeline is realistic for that to happen? Cause it can't happen overnight. Well, if money's free, then you're talking three to 10 years, okay, but money's not free. So a General Motors or, or Ford or anybody that is closing and operating profitable plant has got closing costs, probably that's half a billion dollars.

And then you're setting up another plant and another supply chain that's going to cost you probably 2 billion. And so in a two and a half billion dollars per plant, by the way, there's nine of them here. Yeah. Um, uh, who's paying that bill, uh, while they compete with the Chinese, you know, we had to put a hundred percent tariffs on Chinese cars to make sure that they're not dumping in our market and, and stealing market share. I think, um, and the, and the conventional wisdom is

starting to come around to you will bankrupt American automotive companies in an effort like this and that there is a there is an easier and better middle ground. Just follow the math. But then correct me if I'm wrong, Flavio. And you know, given the your your position as an automotive parts manufacturer, president, it seems to me, bringing bringing the actual factory down to the United States doesn't

entirely solve the problem, the entire supply chain would have to be brought south of the border. Yeah, it's like taking the yolks out of an omelet. I mean, once it's done, it's done. You're either throwing it in the garbage or you're going to need it. And that's why ultimately, I think he backed off over reality on February 1st. But I will, you know, to credit him the disruption that he's causing by making all of these the debates of the day is if you have a new investment or you're bidding on a new program, you're going to your American option is going to shoot to the top of the list.

And we're seeing companies in their anxiety, say, you know what, uh, we'll hold off on investment decisions or we'll ask suppliers who have an equal footprint on the same vehicle in the U S and in Canada, how much extra capacity do they have in the U S in case we just want to use our, your U S factory? You know, typically that's about 25% excess capacity, you can't replace it. But boy, those are really tough questions. And he hasn't done anything yet. I think he's going to get substantially along his way of favoring the US again. Even if we ultimately negotiate to back off like we did in 2018 and 2019.

I'm speaking with Flavio Volpe, the president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers Association, and we're talking about the looming threat on automotive tariffs that Donald Trump just seems eager to drop on us, or maybe not eager, maybe it's just a negotiating tactic. Now, you're a member of the Canada-U.S. Council that the Prime Minister set up. I have to assume this is occupying your time these days? Yeah, this is pretty much it. Anybody who's looking, talk to me about baseball. I don't know about for Daniel, it's not happening. It won't happen until this thing is done.

And are you, are you, are you guys bullish on accomplishing what we need to accomplish? Or is this just, is it, it feels like whatever we're building is being built on shifting sands and that's being done deliberately by our prime minister, by our president, by the president rather. Yeah, look, most of us are used to dealing with paper, you know, it's not artists on that council. And so the one handcuff right now is he's not forwarding any paper. He's just making, he's making threats, serious ones, but paper starts a process and it's been difficult to assess how much of what he says today overrides or adds to yesterday's

or changes his opinion. In recent days he's thrown Ukraine to the dogs and we see that his worldview is quite chaotic. I think what Canadians should get from that is, number one, we feel targeted, but he's targeting everybody domestically and internationally. Number two, at some point he's going to light so many fires, he's gonna run out of water to keep them in check. So let's be, let's be, let's be firm and patient. And I'll say, and with one thing here, Ben, is I always say, everybody asks me, are you negotiating a carve out for automotive

and for Ontario? And I always say no, we're so- Flavio, Flavio, I gotta leave it there, my friend, but thank you so much. Anytime, Ben. We talk a lot about Canada's military, our role in the world, and how the Americans see our role in the world and our responsibility in the world quite a bit on this show. And Canada's top general says that the military relationship with the United States is solid,

even as Donald Trump's threats continue. We've got a lot to discuss with our next guest. I'm so pleased and honored to have him with us. General Rick Hillier, honorary patron of Allies for a Strong Canada. He's a retired Canadian Forces general, and he served as the chief of the defense staff. General, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your service. Ben, good morning, and thank you for saying that.

I'm glad to be here. There is in a great many ways, American and Canadian soldiers have a great relationship. How do politics play and affect that relationship soldier to soldier? Well, there's always an effect, but what you do is say, you know, politicians come and go, political agendas come and go,

a focal point at any one point in time will change. And the important thing for us at the military level was to keep it consistent, to realize that both of our futures were entwined, that security for one is security for the other, and that we both had a role to play. And, and you know, right from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to myself as the Chief of Defense Staff and that continuing to this day, we had that thought process. And then we cascaded that down to the operational commands. We built on the strong relationships of working around the world, of our historical relationships with military and, of course, not just with the United States, but specifically with the United States, the great exchange program, the exchange of education, the exchange of commanders,

and, you know, air and land and sea and special forces. We do it with many nations, but we do it more with the United States of America. So we built upon that. And then we just use, for example, NORAD as the example. NORAD ensures the security of both Canada and the United States is important to both of us. And what we tried to do, and I think we're successful, is making sure we maintain that at that very level, on emotional, professional and capable level. And I think that's the crucial part. And that's a key value of the military. But General Hillier, you know, earlier in the show, I played some audio of Sean Hannity

of Fox News, essentially referring to Canada as freeloaders. And I then sort of editorialized a little bit to say that he appreciates Canadian history through a keyhole. And he does not appreciate the history stained in blood, the noble history of our armed forces

and what we have done and what we have accomplished and the values that we have promoted around the world and the sacrifices that you and your your fellow men and women in military and in uniform have made on behalf of Canada. Do Canadian soldiers who have fought in so many wars alongside Americans, do they take offense to the president's comments? Yeah I think they I don't speak for all the veterans or any veterans beside myself. And, you know, I take offense at the comments. I resent the fact that, you know, the sacrifice and the blood that we shared and the blood that we spilled on behalf of both countries security is not either recognized or dismissed if you if you

will but I would assure you that you know yeah it might come from journalists and news people like John Anity but it doesn't come from the military chain of command in the United States of America. I would say on the other end what we did yesterday is not as important as what we are doing today and there is a view that we are not doing enough today, and we are not spending enough on security of Canada and the North American continent, and therefore the United States and Canada together. And that has been recognized more and more and more.

And I've heard that from senior commanders across the Canadian forces is that, you know, every meeting they go to now is not just the United States of America saying that and the military, it is other nations militaries also. And so, yeah, what we did yesterday is crucial and important and I resent it when it's not recognized, but it's what we're doing today and what we're planning to do tomorrow that now becomes the focal point. And we need A, be doing more right now

and doing a heck of a lot more tomorrow. General, we can't be rebuilding the military unless we have men and women to rebuild the military around. And it seems like we're being given that opportunity by Canadians in the last month. The military saw about a thousand more applicants than they did this time last year. Now, senior military officials didn't go so far as to attribute it to Trump's comments, but they didn't rule it out. And so this seemingly this rise in Canadian pride could be the cause of that. What do you do?

What does the military do with this additional Canadian pride that's translating into more people willing to enlist? Well, I'm not sure if that is actually the case, Ben. I hope that it is that Canadian pride is and that therefore more people see the Armed Forces. But you know, the first thing the Canadian Armed Forces got to do is be out there amongst all those people, not be invisible. And people say to me on a regular basis,

where the heck are the Canadian Forces? We never see them. We never see them in our towns and our events and our important gatherings of any community in our society. And we never see them. And I think you got to be there, first of all, and be seen as a great Canadian institution, and then you gotta market yourself

with this exciting opportunity for young men and young women, and look, at my age, they're all young men and young women. It's an exciting opportunity to serve your nation, to be part of something really important for Canada, and to work with the greatest teams in the world, and to get some leadership development, and to learn how to use your initiative to survive in tough circumstances and to actually achieve missions that are incredibly incredibly good. Those are the kind

of things that appeal to young men and women and we got to get out there and make sure that they hear those kinds of things and we'll get a lot more than a thousand recruits if we do it. A it starts with you know something that starts at the very top. It starts with the Prime Minister who has to make sure that he or she articulates the importance of the Canadian forces and the people who serve there, the men and women in the Navy, the Air Force, the Army and the Special Forces, and then it goes to the Military Training Command. Be out there. Be positive. Be excited by it. Inspire people and talk about the great institution that we have and that we want to build into an even greater and a bigger institution.

That's the kind of excitement that you need to generate to build up on an increased Canadian patriotism and get people in the door, get them trained and get them doing business for Canada. The current Chief of Defense Staff, which is a position that you also held, was asked about Pierre Poliev's comments about changing the military's culture from a woke culture to a warrior culture and she said she doesn't know what that means. She doesn't know what he means by woke culture. I think most people appreciate in their own lives what woke culture means. What do you think about what he meant? Well, I'm not going to try to say what Pierre-Paul Yev meant. From my perspective, what you concentrate on are producing warriors, hard, physically fit, well-trained, absolutely

superbly led, beautifully equipped warriors, air, land, and sea, and special forces who can take on any mission from our country. And let's not forget the basic role of soldiers and sailors and aviators and special forces troopers is to go into combat, to take on an enemy, to destroy that enemy, and to win that battle. And that's what we have to produce. Warriors. And never mind all of the other sort of words that go around that, warriors, fit, equipped, led, inspired,

ready to soldier for Canada, whether it's on the sea, in the air, or on the land. General, in about 30 seconds, I'd love your comment on a timeline. If we were to begin in earnest a good faith rebuilding of the Canadian military so it could get to a point that a person like yourself with your expertise would deem not only

acceptable but but an a world-class outfit worthy of Canada and our our military history how long before we can get operational on that front Well, first of all, we build on what we have and we have some operational pieces even though we've decimated them brutally over the last decade some operational pieces even though we've decimated them brutally over the last decade and we have done that but I would use increments of two years, two years, four years, six years and look in two years we can be back with the units that we have that are well equipped and brought up to the right staffing levels of men and women in them ready to do the business and train that's in two years and so what we have then could be capable, more capable, certainly than they are now, because they're lacking all of those things. And in four years, we can increase the size of the training forces. We could

bring into being more years, a lot more people recruited and trained. And then in six years, we would have that enlarged, additionally capable. General, we got to leave it there. We We gotta leave it there. Thank you very much. Daniel Blanchard is no ordinary thief. His heists are ingenious, his escapes defy belief, and when he sees the dazzling diamond CC Star, he'll risk everything to steal it. His exploits set off an intercontinental manhunt, but how long can CC Star stay lucky for Daniel? I'm Seren Jones, and this is a Most Audacious Heist. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.