The Ben Mulroney Show - Is Mark Carney fit to be Canadian PM? One U.K. writer says no

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Mark Carney is not fit to be Canadian PM with Guest: Matthew Lynn, Financial columnist and author -Survey says more young Canadians believe the history of the Holocaust is exaggerated with Guest: General Rick Hillier, Honorary Patron of Allies for a Strong Canada, Retired Canadian Forces General, who served as the chief of the Defence Staff -Helping out Canada’s “Forgotten Territory” Nunavut with Guest: Dr. Cliff Redford, Veterinarian and host of the podcast: “Vet Life with Dr. Cliff”  If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Like so worried about my sister. You're engaged! You cannot marry a murderer! I was sick, but I am healing. Returning to W Network and StacTV. The West Side River is back! If you're not killing these people, then who is? That's what I want to know.

Starring Kaylee Cuoco and Chris Messina. The only investigating I'm doing these days is who shit their pants. Killer messaged you yesterday? This is so dangerous. I gotta get out of this. Based on a true story. New season premieres tonight at 9 out of this. Based on a true story. New season premieres tonight at 9 Eastern and Pacific. Only on W. Stream on StackTV.

Sometimes when somebody comes at us with a strong opinion, we think, ah, they don't know what they're talking about. When Jesse Waters on Fox News talks about Canadian politics, he maybe read the headline and then goes with whatever he feels on the subject. However, in the case of Mark Carney, who looks like he's the frontrunner to replace Justin Trudeau as liberal leader and ultimately as our prime minister, people in the UK have informed positions on Mark Carney because for years he was the face of the Bank of England. And so they know what they're talking about as it relates to the impact of a man like him on a G7 economy.

And there's an article that was written in The Spectator in the UK that says, Mark Carney is not fit to be Canadian PM. I mean, that's pretty blunt. And so to drill down on exactly what the author means, we're joined by the author, Matthew Lynn. Matthew, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Hi, good to talk to you. So thanks very much for having me on. Absolutely.

I mean, listen, you don't mince your words. So in a nutshell, why is Mark Carney not fit to be the Canadian PM? Yeah, okay. I mean, that's putting it pretty strongly, but I'm happy with the headline, happy with the position. One of the things I noticed, obviously, he was quite a big figure, quite a big political figure over here in the UK when he was governor of the Bank of England. And I noticed that in his pitch for becoming Prime Minister of Canada, he was making a lot of his experience. You know, I have this great international experience, I've done this fantastic job in big positions all over the world. Make me your Prime Minister.

And probably just like you were saying, you know, overseas people don't necessarily comment that well, that much in depth. In Canada, probably a lot of people in Canada don't know that much about the British economy or the back of England of how he did. And actually, the perception here in the UK is that he was a pretty poor governor at the Bank of England That his record was really, you know, not very good at all. You know growth was slow He printed too much money. He sparked inflation. He let regulation get out He let he let regulation weaken he let the London stock market decline, and perhaps most importantly of all, and I think the most controversial thing about Carney

as the governor of the Bank of England was he became very political. You know, governor of the central bank, it's meant to be a fairly technical post. It's a technocratic post. Your job is to control inflation, control monetary policy, control financial regulation, and that's about it. But he became very, very involved personally. The first in the debate about our departure from the European Union, he was very involved on the Remain side, put up a lot of really quite ridiculous stories and then he became very involved in our election campaign last year. He came out as a very strong supporter of the Labour Party. Obviously,

the guys are entitled to his opinions, but not really as governor of the Bank of England. The tradition was always that the governor of the bank was kind of above the political fray. He was somebody who just looked after the money. He was like your bank manager. He wasn't going to come around and tell you how to live your life. He looked after the money. That was his job. Stick to the remit, but he strayed from that. And he very much politicized the bank. And a lot of people feel that was a mistake. Well, and Matthew, you know, it seems, you know, I don't think anybody disputes the heft of his resume. He is he's got the pedigree that a great many people think is essential

or certainly valuable in a national leader. You know, he's got the education, he has the background in business, he's got the background in understanding financial markets, economic systems. And so and he's got the international connections that could facilitate a great many things that a prime minister needs to do. But I think at least what's what's coming to the fore in Canada is that his values on certain things, on the, you know, the, his values on printing money and the role of the central bank, climate change, those values are off kilter with what the values are for a great many Canadians. And so for those values to

be filtered through his pedigree, that's what's disturbing to a lot of Canadians. And so for those values to be filtered through his pedigree, that's what's disturbing to a lot of Canadians. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that's a that's a valid point. And it's, you know, I mean, it's a bit more to be prime minister than just having a good CV. That one's now is disputed in that he's an intelligent guy that he's had a lot of big jobs. But you know, you actually, you actually have to stop and look, you know, a lot of people like that and say, well, hang on, it's not just an issue of having the big job. It's a question of how well you did in the big job. Yeah.

You've got to be judged by the results. So, listen, I'm speaking to you as a British commentator. We love Canada over here, obviously. We don't get that closely involved in Canadian politics, but you can't help having suspicion that Canada is a pretty big country. You could probably do a little bit better than this. There must be lots of people in Canada who have similar qualifications, have similar international experience, but have actually delivered a bit more. I think it was very telling that he kind of made a big point about his experience at the Bank of England. I saw one thing where he was claiming

to have rescued the UK economy. This is just ridiculous. He came in in 2012. Also, we had a banking crash here in the UK, just like you did in the United States, less of an extent in Canada, as it happened. And that was in 2008, 2009. But that was like three years in the past by the time he took over the Bank of England, you know, he really wasn't involved in that. Do you remember, Matthew, when he did take over as the governor of the Bank of England, do you remember what sort of welcome he received in the UK? Yeah, I mean, he got quite a he got a pretty good welcome. I

mean, he was appointed by George Osborne, who was, you know, the the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the finance minister in the Conservative government in David Cameron's Conservative government at the time. And he kind of came in with this billing is this kind of rock star, you know, central banker is, you know, the guy who, you know, could come in, you know, and magically improve, you know, the performance of the British economy that he knew the financial markets work who had this fantastic record in Canada. So he came with a very sort of big billing and he also had, interestingly, he had a huge salary.

You know, I mean, the governor of the Bank of England's, you know, always been be well paid. It's a well paid job. But you know, he kind of tripled the salary, you mean, the governor of the Bank of England's always been well paid. It's a well-paid job. But he kind of tripled the salary. He was expecting a kind of Goldman Sachs-style salary, whereas previously it was 200k in sterling. I guess that's about 300, 350,000 a year in Canadian dollars. It's kind of a pretty decent salary. Most people can get by on that kind of money, even in London, which is not a cheap city. He needed a lot more money than that. He has a huge salary. He had this whole kind of big ego thing going. Actually, people were quite impressed at the beginning. They thought, oh, that's interesting. He was the first time it's ever been a foreigner who's appointed to that job, you know, which raised a few eyebrows. Yeah. Because normally, it's somebody

who's English. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of Canadians who don't really understand the role of the central bank, but knew that he had occupied that job here. And when he took it in the in the UK as well, that was sort of a point of pride for Canadians, it was an emotionally positive thing to say, Oh, look at what we're doing on the world stage. And I think a lot of us just stopped paying attention after that, because we got we got our positive fix, and we

moved on with our lives. It's quite boring. A lot of some of it's quite boring stuff. So you know, just to answer your question, he came in with this big reputation, people thinking, Oh, what's gonna happen? What's this guy's got to get a do? He's supposed to be a financial genius. And two or three years in, you know, they were quite disappointed. He introduced a couple of little changes, he got a kind of rep, he got a nickname in the city of the unreliable boyfriend, because he kind of kept promising stuff. He kept saying, Oh,

we'll do a or B, and then he didn't do it. He came up with some funny ideas of kind of forward guidance. I think was one of his ideas on interest rates. It kind of tell people where interest rates were going. And then he kind of lost his way a little bit and kind of dumped that policy. So people after about two years, people were like, you know, really? You know? Matthew, we're gonna leave it there.

But thank you so much. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Happy Monday. I hope everybody had a fantastic weekend. I know I did. And I hope you're like me and you're ready to attack this week. So thank you so much for listening to us

across the Chorus Radio Network. So much news to get to given the fact that we are living in in strange and exciting times. Christia Freeland, the former Minister of everything, Justin Trudeau's right hand was on a radio show, the CBC radio show, where she she said it's certainly looking like Mark Carney is the choice of the liberal establishment. Let's listen to her thoughts. One of the things that I said that I announced yesterday that is going to be a real focus for me is reviving the party, reviving the grassroots rebuilding. I do think it's important for it's certainly important for me.

It's central to my campaign to see this is not about liberal elites deciding This is about the grassroots it is certainly looking like Mark is the choice of the liberal establishment. It is certainly looking like he is the PMOs candidate and The PMOs can and that And that is OK with me. Can you explain that?

I am really happy to be running against the Ottawa establishment. I think we need a change. I made that very clear with my resignation letter. And my campaign is about reviving grassroots democracy in the Liberal Party. It's about saying we as a party need to do things differently and it's about saying, if I am elected as leader, if I'm elected as prime minister, I will do things very differently.

Yeah, well, I gotta say, it's interesting how you can see things through a different lens with the benefit of the passage of time. And Christia Freeland is, was, and will forever be linked to Justin Trudeau. That's a fact. She's, there's mountains of evidence. God knows how much audio and video, not to suggest,

but to remind us of that blatant and obvious fact. However, Mark Carney, as the choice of the liberal establishment is becoming increasingly hard to ignore as a fact as well. Every day almost, I turn on my social media and there is a post by a long-standing influential liberal who voted in favor of all of the policies of this party, just like Christie did, supporting Mark Carney. And if they weren't powerful, they were visible. So you had Seamus O'Regan and Adam

Vancouver did both making videos supporting him. Almost every member of the cabinet is supporting Mark Carney. You've got members of Justin Trudeau's inner circle powering his campaign. And it's really hard to argue against, like these are the people who put Canada where it is today. And they are saying, based on the judgment

that got us to where we are, our judgment is now telling us we need to vote for Mark Carney. So it's hard not to say, you know what, Christia? Yeah, that's an argument that will fly, at least in this liberal leadership campaign. I don't believe for a second that Canada and the electorate, the general electorate will buy it.

But with so many people lining up to support Mark Carney, so many of the people who have been the faces and the votes and the voices of the liberal government over the past nine years supporting Mark Carney, she can position herself as the agent of change in this liberal leadership campaign. That's my caveat because I don't think anybody is going to accept this liberal leadership campaign. That's my caveat. Because I don't think anybody is going to accept this liberal, I don't think enough people

are gonna accept the liberals as agents of change argument enough to stave off significant electoral defeat. Those are my two cents. Now, one person who maybe would have been able to present himself as an agent of change because he looks and sounds like an agent of change and not a lot of people know who he is, but he was the first guy to throw his hat into the ring was liberal leadership contender Chandra Aria. He got out there first. and he introduced himself in a interesting way to the people when he went on the CBC and he said, it's not important if you want to be prime minister to know French. And a lot of people

thought that that was the worst possible launch of a liberal campaign until Christie's and then until Mark Carney's. But that's another kettle of fish. He let us all know over the weekend that the Liberal Party will not let him run. He put out a release that said, today I was informed by the Liberal Party of Canada that I will not be permitted to enter the leadership race. He's still awaiting official communication from the party

and is carefully considering his next steps. The decision raises significant questions about the legitimacy of the race and by extension, the legitimacy of the next prime minister of Canada. Now, our current prime minister in his resignation announcement, because it wasn't a resignation, it was an announcement to resign at a later date, said that he was looking forward to, I believe, and I may be misquoting, but I think I'm getting the spirit right, a national robust leadership race.

Something like, I know those words were used. And so here's one of the, it's not a lot of people in the race. I think it's less than 10. And he's a person of color. And he has been a he's been a liberal MP. He ran three times got elected three times. He was good enough to sit in your caucus. He was good enough to fly his banner under the liberal banner. He's good enough for you then. But he isn't now. And it begs the question, why?

Like what's different now? Why was he good enough to be a candidate, but not good enough to be a candidate for your leadership? And I'll go back to it because the liberals do all the time. He is a person of color who has been a successful liberal member of parliament. And so there are a couple of ways you can go with this. You can. There are certain things I'm not going to touch. There are there are theories floating out around out there that I think are dangerous for a person's reputation. I'm not going to touch them. There is no I have seen no proof to suggest some bad stuff.

So I'm going to go in the other direction. I don't believe that this guy had a snowball's chance in hell of winning, not a snowball's chance in hell. But he was going to be part of this robust national debate and leadership race. So maybe, maybe just maybe the liberal establishment got freaked out because he was signing up members faster than anybody. And that's the name of the game in these leadership races. How many new members can you bring into the fold who are gonna vote for you and are gonna allow you to be a leader of the party?

Maybe he had a ground game that scared the bejesus out of these people and said, this guy who shouldn't have a snowball's chance in fact does, and we don't know what to do about it. So instead, we are going to create a circumstance where he can't run. I very much hope for the sake of their party, that the truth comes out, because there are a lot of questions by people like me, and not just me, regular people who just wanna know, people who follow the news,

who think that they deserve to know the process by which the Liberal Party is selecting our next Prime Minister. I think we deserve nothing less than that. Is there some sort of orchestrated plan to make sure that the person that the party wants is the person that Canada gets? If that's the case, then the system is even more messed up

than we were led to believe. Like already it was messed up. Already the fact that we're not in an election today, an election campaign today, already that's that to me is disgusting. But if if the game is rigged, that is going to lead us to a prime minister that we didn't necessarily elect. That's no bueno. Calling all sellers, Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology. Here, innovation isn't a buzzword. It's a way of life.

You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. You know, we talk a lot about issues related to the military issues related to public safety issues related to promoting Canadian values both at home and abroad. And on on today International Holocaust Remembrance Day, one of our great military men is in the news, General Rick Hillier.

He's the honorary patron of Allies for Strong Canada, retired Canadian Forces general, and he also served as the chief of the defense staff. He was interviewed for an article in the Toronto Sun about how allies need to step up in our battle against anti-Semitism. He said so many things that I agree with and I'm so pleased and honored

to be joined by General Rick Hillier. General, thank you. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show and thank you for your service. All right, Ben, thank you for saying that. It was a labor of love and I'm glad to be on your show. Thank you very much. So let's talk about today today International Holocaust Remembrance Day. And we're not doing enough.

We're not doing enough to battle it. To battle anti semitism rather. I'm sorry. No, Ben, we are not. And you know, somebody said to me one time, a standard that you ignore or wrong that you ignore is the standard that you set going forward. And so when we in Canada say, oh, this is not Canada, well, guess what? It is Canada now because we've been ignoring it for, you know, going on a year and a half. We've been watching the rise of hatred. We've been watching literally the prosecution, if you will, of Jewish Canadians, some 400,000 of them, where they live, where their children go to school, where they shop, where they have their businesses.

And not one of those 400,000, by the way, to my knowledge, I've ever dropped a bomb in Gaza or on Esbala or done anything else. And yet we have tolerated that hatred. We've tolerated them being unsettling, secure and afraid. And I've talked to so many of them who are afraid our leaders have failed us during this time. And I've been calling on, listen, that silent majority of Canadians, you're far too silent. You don't like this any more than I do. But we've got to make our voices heard and we've got to ensure our elected political

leaders, our chiefs of police, our heads of universities and colleges, our mayors, they've all got to know this is unacceptable. And we're going to vote their asses out very quickly if they don't respond. Well, General, you're absolutely right. And I've been saying it for a very long time as well. If a terrorist supporter steps out of line and says something offensive

and they are not pushed back in line, then the line moves. You've now let them establish a new line. And we've been allowing that line to move for months and months and well into a second year. And that's just a fact. And when somebody says, this is not who we are, anti-Semitism has no place in Canada. That's to me, the new thoughts and prayers

following a mass shooting in the United States. It's absolutely meaningless. Ben, I couldn't agree with you more when we accept those inverted triangles, the red triangles, which are the absolute sign of a mosque targeting individual. When we accept that in Canada, we've got it wrong. When we accept the fact that on our universities and colleges, many of them, a Jewish Canadian student or professor or member of the staff is on our universities and colleges, many of them, a Jewish Canadian student or professor or member of the staff is unsafe, they are insecure, they cannot get to the classes. Just imagine if we had that kind of attitude and environment atmosphere

for black Canadians, for indigenous Canadians, for those who are gay or lesbian or homosexual, we would be in an uproar and every political leader would be out there. Why aren't they out there now? And you know, look, then I appreciate that the Prime Minister has gone to Auschwitz today. I've been at those concentration camps, not Auschwitz, but Bergen-Belsen and Dachau prior and oh my god, it just leaves such an impact on you. But I would say this, a Prime Minister, first of all, who is a lame duck Prime Minister, no matter which side you're on in the political debate in Canada, you know, I think he would have had much greater impact if he had actually shown up in Jewish neighborhoods in Montreal, in Toronto, in

Vancouver and said, I'm with you, we're not going to permit this, and then ensure that his government and the police forces that work for them actually do their job and uphold the laws that we have on the books now and we have lots to protect people. I think that would have been much greater in impact going forward to defuse the hatred which is destroying I think our country. I'm speaking with General Rick Hilliard. I want to get your take on a couple of other things as well because some of us scratch our heads as we await more and more of and hopefully all of the Israeli hostages

to be released from the terrorist group Hamas. You know, we see four Israeli soldier hostages exchanged for 200 Palestinian prisoners. Explain to my listeners, our listeners, the discrepancy. Why such a wild swing, four for 200? Well, I think it's the value of life that Israel gets criticized for so much by people who have no idea

what they're talking about most of the times. The value of life that they have, how much they value the lives of those four beautiful young girls. And they want four beautiful young girls who have lived this horrible existence as hostages for what, you know, 400 and some odd days. And they're willing to give up 200 murderers and rapists and killers who are

wanted back by the Palestinians by a mosque. And, and, and just goes to show I think that Israel values the lives of the men and women and the children. They will go to any, any length to get them back. And that's exactly what you're doing. And with that, they assume an enormous risk because as they know from past experiences, when you release people like those terrorists who committed such barbarity on the 7th of October and other times, when you release them,

many of them will come back to attack you in the not distant future. And so they accept the greater risk because they value the lives of those four beautiful young women and the other hostages so much. Donald Trump has been railing against countries, freeloading countries,

not taking their defense spending seriously since he first got elected in 2016. He wanted everybody to live up to their 2% commitment to NATO, Canada is a founding member of NATO. The last time Canada lived up to that 2% commitment to NATO. Canada is a founding member of NATO. The last time Canada lived up to that 2% commitment was under Brian Mulrooney. And then he gets re-elected, and only then and after he threatens us to it does it seem like our government takes it

seriously. But then it was going to be in 2032. Now Bill Blair, our defense minister, says that we can absolutely achieve that 2% in by the by 2027 absolutely achievable. Why didn't we do this sooner? Ben, I don't know. Look, the first day I became the chief of defense staff at the ceremony with the prime minister, the minister of defense, the governor general, the minister of finance, telecast and televised

across the nation. I said publicly, you can probably never give us all that we need to do all the things that you ask us as a nation, but you sure can give us too little and that's what you're doing now, remember us in your budgets. And so I said it all those years ago, that was in 2005.

And we've been mediocre ever since. Look, we should not be surprised that the Trump administration is going to hold our feet to the fire on this one. The Biden administration was equally angry. It was a shock that Biden did not bring this up when he came to Canada and addressed parliament. I was just amazed that he didn't bring it up. But it is the administration in general in the United States but it is the administration's in general in the United States, it is the Department of Defense, the Department of State who say Canada

is not doing what it's doing. We've been closed out of so many circles and so many venues because of that. And now we're forced with doing this. I hope Bill Blair is right and when he says we can get to it by 2027. I really would be in support. I'd do anything I could to assist him if that were helpful at all, but I don't think we can.

He doesn't have a government behind him. This government does not want to do that. And general, and general, Pierre-Paulie have mentioned a few weeks ago that it's not just a question of how much money we spend, but how we spend that money. He said, I don't know what sort of budget I'm gonna inherit. I don't know what ability I'm gonna have to spend, but I will spend that money. He said, I don't know what sort of budget I'm going to inherit. I don't know what ability I'm going to have to spend, but I will make sure that every dollar I spend is optimally spent in service and to the benefit of our brave men and women who serve

in uniform. Is that a problem too? Do we have a structural problem? We don't know how to spend the money properly. Well, right now we simply wouldn't be able to with our procurement system, which is this Gordian knot that nobody can unravel in less than a decade or a decade and a half. We simply could not spend that money. And every year we turn in a billion dollars, two billion dollars from the Department of National Defense because we simply can't spend it with that procurement system. Step one, break that procurement system, give it to the Minister of Defense, give him a mandate with signposts and dates and timelines and the capabilities he or she has

to deliver and then hold him accountable to do that. But here's what I would say from Pierre Pauliere's perspective. I think and I hope that he understands that nowadays security trumps everything. It's unintended here. Security trumps everything. And without security, without our commitment to it, very real doing things, not talking about doing things. Yeah, actually doing them. We will not survive in an economic relationship with the United States. General Rick Hillier, thank you so much for your insights. I hope you come back to the Ben

Mulroney show soon. Ben, thank you. What an exciting time to be doing radio. We've got the Trump of it all. We've got a liberal leadership race. We've got a desire in this country for an election, federal election. There's just a lot of news, a lot of news. And let's go back to Donald Trump and Team Canada and this notion that some people have

that Danielle Smith has been going it alone. She takes issue with the idea that she's undermining the Canadian case with Donald Trump. She gave an interview where she insists that she's not creating a national unity crisis by publicly opposing premiers on the idea of cutting off energy exports to the US. She said, quote, I think the problem that we saw is that we were getting together as

a group of premiers and the prime minister was saying, let's not negotiate this in public. And I did my part saying, let's focus on the things that we know the Americans care about national security and border security. And everybody else went off freelancing. The thing they kept returning to was punishing Albert and punishing energy. So I just want to make sure that we get back to talking about the things that unite us rather than divide us. And you know, look, I got a lot of time for Danielle Smith on this file.

I really do. We've got a vacuum at the top. Our prime minister isn't speaking to us really. And he may be negotiating in private, I suspect that they are, but Trump is a president in public. He's forward facing. If he sees a microphone, he tells people what he thinks. He's on social media.

He likes to troll. He watches a lot of television. There's a lot of this that's happening in the public square. And the feds are decidedly absent from the public square. And so when Pierre Poliev last week essentially made it out and explained like we've got 11 foreign ministers, we got the federal foreign minister and then we got we got 10 premiers who are all out there doing their own thing because in the absence of leadership someone is going to fill that vacuum. And we got every premier looking out for themselves or looking out for their vision of Canada I should say.

I do not think that there is a single premier who is operating under the belief that I'm gonna get what I can for me. I think what they're doing is they're forwarding and they're shepherding forth what they feel is a strong vision for Canada in the future. And I think Danielle Smith rightly recognizes that any any version of Canada in the future that is strong and independent Absolutely includes a an energy sector that looks a heck of a lot different than it does today and Any any leader who suggests? that the status quo as

far as our energy sector is involved, is acceptable, disqualifies them, disqualifies themselves from leadership. So I've got a lot of time for Danielle Smith. And when she speaks, I listen. I'm not saying I'm going to agree with her every time. Actually, you know what? Maybe, maybe we should listen to her speak. I always think that you should try to avoid a fight, especially when you've got, you know, a bigger a bigger adversary that you're fighting against the American economy is 10 times the size of Canada. And if we get into some kind of tit for tat retaliatory tariffs, neither country is going to benefit from that. And Canadian consumers are going to be harmed.

That's why my approach has been what can we do to avoid the fight? That being said, I think we all know based on previous experience that having a proportionate response is what is normally expected when these kinds of things occur. And so I know that the federal government is working on what that proportionate response would look like. I hope we don't have to roll it out at all. I hope we can avoid tariffs altogether. I sure do wish we would hear things like this from her federal counterparts, but we don't. We hear it from Doug Ford, and we hear it from Wab Kanu, and we hear it from Danielle Smith. David Eby. We don't hear this stuff. I don't know why they are so silent. I get the argument that we heard from David McNaughton

a little earlier, the former Canadian ambassador to the US. We shouldn't telegraph what we're gonna do. We should just do it. I get that, but there is an element of theater to this that needs to be played out in public. And I just, I think the, the feds have dropped the ball. One of the people who was in the room with Donald Trump and Christia Freeland and Justin Trudeau

in the renegotiation of NAFTA was Steve Mnuchin, the former treasury secretary under Trump 1.0. And he gave an interview on Fox where he talked about sort of the unique particularities about the Canadian-US relationship that could prove a little difficult for the American economy to deal with if we live in a tariff-filled world.

The president very much believes in tariffs and wants to shrink the trade deficits. And I think it really depends on how he uses these economic tools. He's talked about a 10% across the board tariff. That's a form of a consumption tax on foreign goods. And I think the market could adjust to that. And depending on how the revenues are used, particularly if it used to pay down debt, that could be a very interesting tool. I think the 25% tariffs immediately on Canada and Mexico are going to be hard to adjust for. And I hope that he can reach

a quick agreement in that Mexico and Canada will do what they need to do so that that's not implemented. Yeah, I think as Steve Mnuchin is, is looking all the way back to President James Monroe, who used tariffs to cut the American debt in half. Now, back then, I think it was 120 million, and he dropped it to 60 million using exclusively tariffs. And because yeah, when you've got goods that come from one place and it is effectively a consumption tax, but the Canadian experience is different because so many of our goods cross the border

many times before they ultimately become a final good. A car parts, it's not like every part of a car is in Canada and then we just drop it south of the border as a car. It goes back and forth across the border six, seven, eight, nine times, adding components each and every time until it ultimately becomes a car that we ship south of the border. That interconnected nature is not necessarily the same

as the goods that come in from China. And I gotta say, right before Steve Mnuchin started talking, there was a graphic on the screen. And there were three names, Mexico, Canada, China. And Mexico had the number 25% under it. Canada had 25, China had 10. And I gotta ask the question, is Canada two and a half times the problem

to the United States that China is, that Mexico is? The answer is absolutely not. Of course it's not. There's no case to be made that we are two and a half times more trouble to the Americans than China is. So we got to figure out what exactly, because something's motivating Donald Trump beyond the numbers. Something. I mean, is he two and a half times more annoyed with Trudeau than he is with Xi Jinping?

Maybe. But it can't just be that. It's got to be more. So the idea that tariffs can be used as a carrot and a stick, that the threat of tariffs can be used to bring allies and enemies alike into line, to align better with what Donald Trump wants the world to look like. We saw that play out in real time over the weekend

when the president wanted to send planes full of illegal immigrants from Colombia back to their home country. And the president, Gustavo Petro, said absolutely not not on my watch. And Donald Trump comes out and says, okay, guess what? No problem. We'll take them back and you can expect 25% tariffs on every single product that leaves your country to enter Canada. Gustavo there, he fell in line right quick. Those planes landed pretty damn quickly. And Scott Jennings on CNN had this to say.

The reason Donald Trump had to resort to these tariffs and sanctions and punishments today is because the president of Columbia refused to accept a flight of migrants. He said he wouldn't take them. Donald Trump said, we're going to enter the F around and find out portion of this conversation. And he hit him with sanctions and tariffs. And now tonight, the speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. Yeah, F around and find out. That's that's that's the that's the theme of the early days of this Trump administration.

May 25, 1993. I joined my father in Iqaluit in Canada's north as he met with First Nations leaders to sign the Nunavut Agreement. I thought it was a great chance to spend some time with my dad. I thought it was a great chance to see parts of this country I had never seen before. And I have those memories occupy space in my mind and in my heart forever. What I didn't know at the time was that it was, the disagreement was at the time, and I don't know if this record still stands,

the largest land claim in Canadian history. And I didn't know how much it meant to my father until years later. But so I've been, I was there at the birth of Nunavut, Canada's third territory. And there are people who say that it did nothing less than rewrite the map of Canada. So I didn't appreciate the importance of it. But I'm, in my heart, I'm forever linked to Nunavut. And so when I heard of this story of Nunavut being Canada's forgotten territory,

I really want to drill down. And so I'm joined now by Dr. Cliff Redford, veterinarian and host of the podcast, VetLife with Dr. Cliff. Doctor, thank you so much for being here. Hey, thank you. That was a great story. Thank you for sharing it with us. So what does, before we get into your particular story, what did Nunavut mean to you before you ever went there? I just knew it as a territory that was really far north. I actually had no connection until a year ago.

They asked me first to go up to volunteer my vet services almost a year exactly. And I fell in love with the place, probably much like you and your father did. It is such a year exactly. And I fell in love with the place, probably much like you and your father did. It is such a beautiful country. I went in the sort of stark winter, but I'm glad I did. It's so beautiful. And the people there, both the Inuit community

and then the Southerners as they call them, are all so amazing and so welcoming. And it now holds a special place in my heart, just like it does for you. When we think of remote areas in Canada and anywhere in the world, it's easy to think, oh gosh, it must be hard for them to get fresh produce, it must be hard for them to keep a doctor.

But it never occurred to me until this conversation, how hard it must be for those areas to have access to veterinary care. Yeah, it's impossible. The entire territory has not had a veterinarian for over four years. And so none of it is really the only community large enough to be able to have someone like myself go up and volunteer. And even when we do, you know, we're inundated with obviously spays and neuters and vaccines.

Rabies is such a problem up there in the Arctic fox population that we're constantly having to kind of catch up and vaccinate the animals. But then you know, you think about emergency surgeries, what happens if a vet's not there, which is 99% of the time, and your animal hurts itself, they have to fly it down to Ottawa. So we were up there for about nine days, myself and two of my kids and one of my technicians. And my kids are adults. And it was just nonstop work. But it was the most rewarding and enjoyable thing I've done in my career, which is why I went back this year. Yeah, there must be a real appreciation for when you do

something like that. What would it take? Do you think what sort of incentives would be required? What sort of system would be required? What sort of system would be need to put in place so that the area could have at least one full time vet? Yeah, that's a that's a great question. We need to get the word out to veterinarians about how wonderful it is up there. They have an animal hospital that was left over from the previous vet. So I'm able to do blood work there, I'm able to do x-rays, you know, advanced surgeries. So they've got the caseload, they've got the demand and then you've got, we basically have to get people

to realize that you can be a wonderful veterinarian and do amazing work, get paid well, they'll even set you up with a place to live. They're working on a government grant for some public housing, really, really nice two bedroom, three bedroom sort of condo units that you can stay. And we just need to find a vet that has an adventurous soul, but one that's not tied to the community of Toronto.

Yeah, but when you say wonderful, paint that picture for me. What's life like for somebody new to Nunavut? What do you get to do? What are the experiences like? What are the people like? What's the food like? What's the temperature like?

Yeah, I mean, everyone just thinks it's cold. And it is. When we went up last week, it's only four hours approximately of sunlight. But then you've got a two-hour sunrise and a two-hour sunset. So it's so beautiful and blue and white, and then you've got the Northern Lights. And there's things to do there.

There's a movie theater, there's small shopping malls. Canada's or North America's most northern brewery is in a Calais called New Brew. We went there quite a few times. And people were buying us drinks because they were so appreciative we were there. So it was a great time. And then you can enjoy the outdoors. In the summertime, there's sports galore, like outdoor sports, everything you can think of. What's summer like there?

Summer like is, now I've never been there, but apparently it is completely different. Instead of it being ice and snow, it is almost, the entire day is sunlight. The tundra, there's no trees, but the tundra is just this amazing rocky up and down, like incredible elevations. And there are, because the sunlight is almost all day

The summer flowers the wild flowers are just painting the entire city 7,000 people but the entire city just every color you can think of so it is so Beautiful and there's so much to do if you like being outside so beautiful and there's so much to do if you like being outside. And if you like being inside, obviously you can do that too. So people think it's, it's remote and it is, but it's still very modern and still very exciting. So I encourage veterinarians to go up there, you know, for a week or two, let's get more volunteers up there. And then people are going to fall in love. And then I won't have to go up anymore.

And I think you make a good point. You make a good point. It requires an adventurous spirit, right? It requires somebody who says, you know what, for a year or for two years, I want to do something that I never otherwise would do anywhere else. And I want to have an opportunity to be fulfilled in a way that I can't be fulfilled wherever I live now. And if they see it through that lens, then then then it's going to be an incredible experience.

Yeah, and everyone thinks that I'm treating sled dogs. And there were a few of those, but I'm treating Yorkies and Chihuahuas and Great Danes and cats, a bearded dragon, a person brought in their Flemish bunny rabbit for me to take a look. So these are the majestic Flemish bunny rabbit of the Northern Tundra. Yes, name fog. So beautiful animals, beautiful people, great clients, no complaints and appreciative clients. That's another thing. If you require flattery in your job, then you gotta be the only guy who does your job

within a thousand miles. A hundred percent, yeah. And I mean, veterinarians talk a lot about burnout and how we're not appreciated by the clients. That's not a problem going up there. They appreciate you so much. And then when you come back to Toronto, like I do, my clients here appreciate the work that I did

and show their appreciation as well. So, um, what about, Dr. What about having the resources that you need to do this job? Are they available to you there? Cause we hear about food shortages or how expensive it is to get, like I said, fresh food, fresh produce up in the, in, in Northern remote communities. What, what, what's, how hard is it for you to have all the tools that you require to be the best vet you can be? It's not difficult at all. I mean, I can do prescriptions to the pharmacy, but they've got a full stock pharmacy at the animal hospital because they get stuff shipped up with the technicians from Ottawa.

But Amazon delivers there. So people have things they need. They've got large screen TVs. In the summertime, the cargo ships come and bring brand new vehicles. Oh, wow. So it has everything you would think of. We got Netflix, we got AM6.

When we were there, it's not a problem. So- Dr. Redford, thank you so much for being here. I think you should be appointed the unofficial ambassador of Nunavut to the rest of the country. And just for the record, for all the money we spend as a federal government, we can spend 200k easy on a salary for a vet

to go up there for a year or two. Just saying. Home Network is here. I love it. Discover the best shows and your favorite trusted experts all under one roof. Are you kidding me? Every Thursday, watch heartwarming programs like an all new Extreme Makeover Home Edition at 8. Home at fun! We are so lucky to be a part of this. And Honest Renovation, starring Jessica Alba and Lizzie Mathis at 9.

Changing these homes, we can change families. There's no place like it. Home Network. Stream on STAC-TV.