The Ben Mulroney Show - Is putting officers back in school a good or bad idea?

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Is putting officers back in school a good or bad idea? If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Snacks, delivered. Fresh fruit, delivered. Grocery delivery on repeat for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at pcexpress.ca. This is the Ben Mulroney Show and thank you for joining us on this Thursday, June 12th. We've got a lot of news to get to, but I do wanna talk about what in my estimation

is the most important news of the day. So years ago, my sister, her birthday was yesterday, June 11th, and we were scheduled, my wife and I were scheduled, she was scheduled to have a C-section because we'd had twins a few years earlier and they had fallen off the growth chart and so we'd have a C-section. I say we, she had to have a C-section.

And then the doctors this time when we were pregnant with our daughter said, it's easier to just do the same thing. And it was scheduled for June 11th. The birth of our daughter was June 11th, which is my sister's birthday. And so Jess and I went back and forth and we said, you know what, Caroline is the most special of us,

my sister. And it felt wrong to co-opt her birthday when she really is the most important of all of us in every way, she keeps us all together. And we're so happy to celebrate her birthday yesterday. And so my wife and I decided that we were gonna punt the ball by a day so that Ivy's birthday would not fall on Caroline's, which means today

is in my estimation, one of the most important days of my life because I became the father of a daughter, and not just any daughter. Ivy is the most special ray of sunlight I've ever, ever had the pleasure of basking in. She is, she's 12 years old today, so it's her champagne birthday, happy birthday Ivy. And by the way, Ivy is actually not her name. Her name is Isabel Veronica. But because of her

initials, we call her Ivy. She's this wonderful, empathetic, warm, generous, kind girl who always stands up for the if there's someone getting picked on, she stands up for the person getting picked on. And she's at that inflection point that every little girl goes through where she's at a fork in the road where she could want to be 15 or 16, or she could love being exactly where she is. And she is so comfortable in her own skin. She loves being 12.

She loves all the trappings of being a young, a little girl. She knows, I guess, I hope, I hope she knows that, you know, adolescence is there at some point. And she's just not interested. She loves all the things that she used to love. And I'm so, so, so proud to be her dad. So Ivy today on your 12th birthday, I know you're not listening. But I know you're going to have an incredible day because you make everybody's day incredible. And I love you very much. Okay. So that, so that's the most important news of the day. Some other news that I think is good news,

and I hope most people do. I hope everybody does. I know that won't be the case. But after five years in a box, Sir John A. Macdonald, Canada's first Prime Minister, there would be no Canada were it not for his vision, the box protecting Sir John A. at Queen's Park has been removed. He was put in the box for his own good, for his own protection, because during the George

Floyd protests, there were people who thought that when they saw him, they did not see what they used to see. They saw the architect of the residential schools and somebody threw some paint on him. And so for his own good, they covered him in a box. Well, he's out of the box. And they've put a protective coating on him that makes it a lot easier to remove any sort of paint. He's also under 24 hour protection

from some security guards. And a plaque has been added to the base of the statue that reads, we cannot change the history we have inherited. We can shape the history we wish to leave behind. And it also explains that the Speaker of the House at Queens Park is considering how, quote, depictions of those histories in the monuments and statuary on the assembly's ground can respect all of our diverse cultures and peoples. You could be the greatest fan of Sir John A.

You could believe that he did nothing wrong, that he was infallible, that he was perfect, which is nonsense, but you could believe that. And this plaque would still not upset you. However, there are people on the other side who believe that their grievance, that their feeling of outrage or discomfort matters more than anything else and will take matters into their own hands. I believe it's an inevitability that somebody will try to deface him again. And I would just ask those people, that somebody will try to deface him again. And I would just ask those people,

how does that make you any different than the object of your protest? If you believe that Sir John A was a colonialist who imposed his will, his whiteness on North America by subjugating First Nations, how is your expression of protest any different than what you are protesting? You are choosing to impose your will

on a statue that is meant for everybody. And with this plaque, it recognizes that he wasn't infallible and that having him erected there is a memorial of where we have come from, as well as a reminder of how we can do better in the future. If that isn't enough for you, then I humbly submit nothing will be enough for you. And with all due respect, as somebody, if you are a protester who has this single issue in mind, then you, by definition, as a single issue person, you are ill-equipped

to make the decisions as to what we as a broader community should value and should be striving towards in the future. And I humbly, I implore everybody who has an issue with one person or another who may be remembered because they matter to our history. I implore you, don't be that person. Don't be the problem. Offer up solutions.

When I hear that the NDP member, Sal Mamakwa, and I do hope I'm pronouncing his name right, says he predicts that there will be a defacing of the statue. Sir, you're giving license to people to deface it. You are normalizing that behavior. It's not right for you to use the microphone that is put in your face because you were elected

to Queens Park to normalize that sort of behavior. That is wrong. You should be urging dialogue and discussion. And again, I'm standing here as a fan of Sir John A who recognizes the ills of the residential school system. I am somebody who recognized he was a fallible man. He did things wrong. Why is that not enough?

Why is that not enough? When we as a society are not all living by the code of Sir John A. We've moved into the 21st century, recognizing the ills of the product of that time and wanting to do better. How is that not enough? Why is the cancellation, the removal,

and why is your offense, why is that paramount above everything else? So I urge everybody, the box has come down. Can we admit that we were living in a very emotional time? Can we admit that, and we are gonna have some conversations a little bit later about that emotional time as it relates to police returning to Toronto schools.

They were removed following the George Floyd murder. to police returning to Toronto schools. They were removed following the George Floyd murder. And there is a movement now to bring them back. There's some data to support it, but there are some emotions on the other side that say not on my watch. So that's coming up next right here on the Ben Mulroney Show.

All right, so you'll remember that following the murder of George Floyd by police officers in Minnesota, there was a racial reckoning that reverberated across North America, even extending beyond the borders of America into Canada. And one of the impacts of that murder was the defund the police movement and general skepticism over the value of the police in all sorts of aspects of our lives. Now, some of them good, the idea that the police were the right team

in every circumstance to address an issue in society, we became a little more granular in asking some really interesting questions there. One of them being, you know, when somebody is in a mental health crisis, should it be the cops that are the first responders? And I think we're getting to a more nuanced place where, no, that they're not the most well-equipped, perhaps a hybrid team of police officers with mental health experts that can help identify when somebody is a risk to somebody else or just a risk to themselves.

And how can we get them to a place where, a place of safety for themselves where they can then recover? So that's a good thing that came out of it. There are a lot of people that believe that the removal of police from schools in and around Ontario, specifically in Toronto, was a good thing. And so now we are having that debate again, because the province is proposing legislation

that would require school boards to reinstate school resource officers, where local police officers could start as early as next school year. And that would see, in a number of cases, it would see police officers in the hallways of schools. And obviously there are people who are going to entrench themselves on both sides of this debate. Now earlier, oh, earlier today, earlier today, the founder of the Black Education Fund, David Bosveld, weighed in on this with

Greg Brady on his show, and he laid out the cons of officers in schools. Well, let's talk about the cons, and that would be the lack of consultation with the public. You'll have to remember school resource officer programs were quite prevalent pre-2020. George Floyd was murdered. A lot of people took the time to do their own reviews of the programs. In Peel, there was a lengthy public consultation that

centered voices of black parents, teachers, educators. After the consultation, Pele decided to first pause and then terminate their school resource officer. And during that consultation, the police themselves admitted that that program was used for officers to hone their investigative skills and to seek promotions.

Okay, so, like we ought to call things what they are. And there was an emotional expression of, everybody wanted to look like they were doing something in the aftermath of George Floyd. And it was a moment unlike anything, I believe any of us have lived through. But can we agree? Can we all just be honest that we were leading with emotion?

We led with so much emotion that we actually had a very real debate society wide about the concept of D funding police forces. With more rational thought behind us with emotion behind us that's insane can we all agree that the idea that a city like Toronto needs less police the fact that we were even talking about it and engaging in that debate is insane so can we agree that in that moment that was emotionally charged, we took steps that were driven by emotion? I'm not saying that everything we did was driven by emotion. Like I said, I gave a very good example of, I think, a positive outcrop of that emotional

debate. Secondly, and I've said this before, the George Floyd murder was disgusting. It was terrible. I'm glad justice was exacted for the family and against the police officer, but that was an American problem. It was an American problem and I have enough problems in Canada. We as a society have enough problems in Canada. We don't need to be importing anybody else's ills. I don't think that Americans are sitting around feeling bad, wrestling with how they feel and how they can become better

because of Canadian residential schools. Why should we be importing American racial inequality when we have plenty of it that we should atone for ourselves? Also, the George Floyd murder did not take place in a school. Why we are using that as an excuse to reevaluate police officers in schools in Canada doesn't make any sense to me.

And finally, there was a story that came out in I believe the Globe and Mail in May of this year that violence in Ontario schools has reached, quote, crisis levels. Could that have something to do with the fact that the police are no longer there? I don't know, but it would be nice to explore. And I'd like to hear from you at 416-870-6400

or 1-888-225-TALK. Let me know what you think. Is it time to do something with police officers in schools? And do we need consultation when the study has been done that says that our schools are not as safe as they used to be? That most teachers in Ontario schools have encountered at least a one act of violence over the course of the last year. And in my opinion, one is too many. And not for nothing, but the story in the in the Toronto Star that covered the return of these police officers to to Ontario schools.

They didn't interview a single female student, not one. And I venture to say I would love to know what female students feel about their safety in schools. I wonder why they to know what female students feel about their safety in schools. I wonder why they did not ask female students how they felt about the possibility of having peace agents inside their schools. So look, I don't have the proper answer, but I do not think that the conversation that we had after George Floyd, we would be having today in good faith.

That was an emotionally charged moment and a lot of people took a backseat to other people they felt deserved to have a voice and those people dictated where we are today and all I know is the cops left the schools and now the teachers are being targeted so I'd love to hear from you let's go to George George welcome to the show hey Ben good morning good morning um finding, you know, like, now we've got things that we didn't have when we were young. These schools are much larger. Yeah. And a lot of them are really high risk.

Youth just, youth crime is through the roof. It's much higher than it's ever been. Yeah. As a matter of fact, it's the majority of the violent crime in Toronto. Did you know that? The majority is under 18 and those are people who are in the high school. So it's absolutely insane to say that we have to keep the police out of the schools. I think they have their place there.

And you know what? Look, I'm willing to have a conversation about it. Maybe the role that they played before George Floyd is not the role they should be playing today. Maybe there is a smaller, maybe there's a more nuanced role. And let's have that conversation. Who do we have next? We got Shaw. Welcome to the show. Hi, good morning. So I was seeing to your screener. So even though the George Floyd situation happened in America, that was a catalyst that caused Canadians to look inward at issues that we are having. So when they

had these police in the schools, unfortunately profiling occurs, where majority of black students that are profiled in this situation, where I do believe that if you have early recourse that you won't have any violent situations within the black community, but they can use those resources for other building opportunities for these black students or other students in general. But unfortunately, with police being in the school, the black children are profiled more. You can even check with CAS. CAS, the black families are even the ones that are more basically, they are the ones that are looked into more.

Yeah, but maybe, Maysha, maybe this is an opportunity to reset that relationship and start anew and have a more positive relationship. But the numbers can't be denied that our schools are more violent today. And I am not looking at one cultural group over another. I'm looking at the numbers. And if our teachers are saying that they are not feeling safe and there's an opportunity to reevaluate how our police interact in our schools,

maybe now is the time to take that opportunity. Rather than say, no cops in schools, they're absolutely bad. That dehumanizes the cops themselves. That makes us other them. That makes us look at them as something other than part of our community. And I think that is exactly what we've been trying to get away from as a society for the past five years. Humanizing everybody, connecting everybody.

And more on this on your calls after the break. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and I wanna continue taking your calls at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. The question is, do police officers belong in our public schools here in Ontario and here in the city of Toronto? They were removed following the emotional racial reckoning that we had after the murder

of George Floyd. And now with the rise in violence that has been demonstrated and proven in our schools, perhaps now is the time to bring them back, perhaps under different circumstances, perhaps with different rules of engagement, perhaps different numbers. But perhaps now is the time to bring them back, perhaps under different circumstances, perhaps with different rules of engagement, perhaps different numbers, but perhaps now is the time to talk about it. There's some who say absolutely not. There's some who say absolutely I'm sort of looking at maybe there's a way we can bridge that gap. So let's have that conversation. Adam, welcome to the show. Yeah. Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. The way I agree with you there, bridging the gap. I don't think there is a need for the police to be in the schools. I have a son in kindergarten, believe it or not, and an older son. They're nine years apart, another one in high school.

Anyway, I have emails with teachers. They have my email and we can communicate that way. And God forbid my son ever got into trouble, like I have the fear God put in him, but like he, I would know, I'd be notified right away by the teacher. And I think that's a great way to communicate, you know, and it starts at home. And I told my kids, you know, you represent the family when you leave the house. Yeah, and listen, you, Adam, are doing everything you can as a parent. But what you're giving me is a wonderful example of the connection between family and school. And that's great, but that's anecdotal.

I'm looking at the data that says that our schools, I think 60%, more than 60% of teachers, have experienced at least one act of violence in the last calendar year. And when I say violence, I say crime. There's a crime being perpetrated on a taxpayer at their workplace. And I don't know if it's causational or it's correlation, but the cops were in the schools at one point and now they're not anymore. And our teachers, the ones that we want to teach our kids are saying their workplace has become less safe, which is why I wanna have this conversation.

And look, the gentlemen. I truly agree with you. It is definitely a lot less safe. Yeah, and I wanna, Adam, I do wanna point out that, you know, I'm taking to task David Bosfeld. He's the founder of the Black Education Fund. But he did bring up a very good point. I think it bears acknowledging that he said that,

look, we already are stretched very thin with police in the GTA. If all of a sudden we added this to their burden, what is that going to do just writ large across the city? It's a very good point. If we're already stretched thin, do we have it in our budget? And do we have it in terms of manpower to start staffing up schools with police officers? A very good point. I don't have an answer to that. And I'd love to hear from everybody listening to the show 416-870-6400 or one triple eight

two two five talk. And I keep going back to the genesis of this the genesis of this Was in my opinion flawed on two levels one It was it was it started from a very emotional place very emotional To the point that we had what I consider to be just an insane conversation about the idea of defunding the police. I mean, think about that. That was a common conversation that people were having around the dinner table for years. That's how emotional we were. I don't know if emotion at that level should be guiding policy and significant policy,

important policy as it relates to public safety and the personal safety of the people we entrust to educate our kids. And so that's why now that it feels like we are in a more rational place, perhaps it's time to re-examine that conversation. Julius, welcome to the show. Hey Ben, big fan. Thank you. I just want to share my experience. I went to not the most nice part of town. I grew up in a Jane Lawrence area. I went to school with a police officer in it back in 2012.

And let me tell you, the students had a great relationship with him. He had PlayStation in his office. Everyone likes him. I think it depends on how the police officer interacts with them. Well, there you go. So it's, it's, it's, it's about the operating procedure, right? It's about what are their marching orders? What, what are they told their job is within that school? Maybe, maybe this reset was the right thing. Maybe now we have the,

the possibility for the police Julius to engage on a to engage in a different way with the students. But I can't help, Julius, you just said it. It's a chance for students who may have negative feelings towards police officers to see them as part of the community, to see that they are from their community, that they are not something that is, they're not just a blue wall, but they are made up of people and individuals

from their community, they're friends, they are neighbors. And maybe that's the first, look, I may be pying the sky, I might be overly optimistic, I may be naive, but to interact on a daily basis in a non-threatening way with a police officer maybe makes somebody think, I'm not being threatened every time I see a police officer.

100%. Yeah. Now one bad apple doesn't make every apple bad, right? Yeah. Well, exactly, exactly. Like I said, this could be the opportunity we've been waiting for to build bridges in communities where those bridges need to be built.

And if you can start young with kids young, maybe that's the secret sauce. I don't know, but to simply shut the door and say, absolutely not, when we have data to support that in the absence of these cops, a lot of our schools are experienced crisis level violence. I think that's irresponsibility and that's not data-driven decision-making.

John, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you? Well, I'm well, thank you. Okay, excellent idea. I don't know if you're aware of it in the East Coast. They put security in schools. Violence has dropped dramatically. Basically, you know, you go to an event, you see security at event, if somebody's out of hand, there's like five security guards, they're on them. Sure and I listen I remove that person from the classroom yeah then why do you have to remove

30 kids from a class to to prevent one from harming everyone and that's the procedures they're using yeah you're aware of that I'm not aware of it I don't I listen for I have to assume that there's a cost you know private security means you're paying out of pocket versus the police that we are paying for with our tax dollars. So right there, it's a budgetary concern. And the accountability of the police is baked into the law. I don't know what the accountability of security officers is that you would just hire on a contract.

It's a, listen, I said I'm willing to have the conversation. So clearly I'd be willing to have a conversation about, you know, maybe it's private security over cops. I think the, I think the value if done right, a John, if, if police are brought back into certain schools under more positive circumstances that would allow to build bridges as opposed to create divisions, I think that would have a societal value that far exceeds anything than if you had security officers there. But again, it is pure speculation on my part. I do appreciate your call on this matter. It's I think it's I think it's I think

it's time that we recognize that we made a lot of decisions. We made a lot of decisions post George Floyd from an emotional perspective. And some good stuff came out of it. But can we agree that you're not supposed to make the biggest decisions of your lives when you are emotional? And we did that as a society. Furthermore, again, I think we co-opted an American ghost.

We co-opted an American ill. We co-opted an American problem, made it our own, and then started making policy decisions based on something that was not, in my opinion, not ours to own. Let's take John. John, welcome to the show. John, you're a police officer.

You've got some nuance to add here. Yes, absolutely. I've been a police officer for 25 years now. Thank you for your service. You're welcome. Whereas in my first five years, I was a resource officer in the schools. And the something that hasn't been mentioned is the police officer that is in the school is there to mend fences, build bridges, that sort of thing.

Any violence that goes on on or off is dealt with an officer that is called in so that the the the resource officer is not going in investigating. They're not going in and laying charges. They're not going in giving bad news necessarily. They're there to explain what's going on. They have questions from the kids. When I was in there, I'd go into the cafeteria and I would sit with different kids all the time and it took about six months and but it became became something actually quite special with most of the students. So John, John I had a caller a little bit

earlier on this that said that the police, that the racialized students, specifically black students felt overwhelmingly that they were being profiled the simple act of interacting with a police officer. They felt that they were being profiled. How do you how do you counter that? I think that if if these if these students feel that way, maybe the they can have a soft conversation every now and then. feel that way. Maybe the they can have a soft conversation for every now and then. You know, it's like, it's beads, not words, right? What that police officer is doing in the school.

He softened. And not every officer is interested or capable of this necessarily. Yeah. And require. Yeah, it requires a deaf touch. And what I think you're saying is, you know, it's so much is in the eye of the beholder and so much seems to be getting lost in translation. Your act of sitting with kids and getting to know them is, you know, for you is a way of creating connection. But to somebody who is skeptical of the police, the police, that same conversation could be viewed as profiling. Yeah, I can understand that. And the more you get the right person in there for a long period of time, especially in elementary school, I think not is more important, but that's where the base begins. Yeah, because they're going to be in school into high school within

three or four, four years. Yeah. And then they're going to already have this trust built into the school because the police officer in the school is not there to lay charges. They don't lay investigation that comes from a different source. There's simply a resource to have that bridge from the police to the student and understand that police officers aren't there only to charge. Well, John, John, again, thank you for adding that context. But again, in you saying that, it elicits in me this sort of this vision that clearly something's getting lost in translation between what the cops' goals are

and how they are received by certain cultural communities, which means there's work to be done. And putting cops back in the schools without doing that work is going to yield the same results as we had before. So I thank everybody for being part of this conversation. It's hopefully a conversation that we as a society are not afraid to have because safety in our schools should be paramount for everybody.

This is the Ben Mulroney Show and in just a few weeks, Pride Toronto kicks off. Pride is one of the biggest celebrations of the LGBTQ2IA plus communities in the world. I believe it's the biggest festival in Canada, possibly North America and one of the biggest in the world. And it is a very big economic driver. Now we could sit here and have a conversation about, you know, has Pride lost its way? That's not the conversation I want to have. I want to stick with the numbers. It is a destination. People come into the city, they spend a lot of money, and that money gets taxed and that tax revenue goes back to all levels of government. And recently, they have fallen on difficult times

for who knows what sorts of reasons, but a lot of corporate sponsors have been pulling out. Now, last week, I took issue with how our city government was naming and shaming those corporate sponsors. I thought that was irresponsible. But again, that's not the conversation we're having. The city of Toronto has stepped up with $350,000 in funding. That's an increase of 35% from last year. Their budget shortfall, mind you, is $900,000. So this gets them part of the way there, not all of the way there. And the question that I have for our listeners is, given the fact that this taxable income is coming in and all levels of government will be enjoying it, maybe at least until

Pride can figure out how to bring the corporate sponsors back in, knowing that a lot of money is going to be coming their way, shouldn't the other levels of government invest in this key economic driver of the summer? Here's what Olivia Chow said about Pride funding. We've already increased the funding for Pride Parade because the huge number of people that come to the city, and a lot of them are tourists, and they are proud, they are loud. And it's a beautiful festival. Actually, this is Pride Month.

And already, this whole city, it's—we have street festivals. And that really benefits the small businesses, by the way, with the street festival. It's free. People can come. There's music and there's lots of food. Yeah, listen, I don't dispute anything the mayor says right there. And there are, in my opinion, more or less, there are two types of spending by a government. There's the spending of the ArriveCan app, which is just money being lit on fire taxpayers money that doesn't add any value whatsoever. And there and there are examples of that as long as my arm. But then there are things like this where you absolutely know that an investment by the government is going to yield a knock on effect

of 10 x 20 x. So that to me is a real investment. So I want to hear from you at 416-870-6400-18888-225-TALK. This is Pride Toronto is a staple of the calendar. It is one of those things that makes Toronto a destination for people who otherwise wouldn't necessarily come here. It's an excuse for people to party, to drink, to get hotel rooms, to shop, to go out for lunches, to spend money. And that money then gets taxed and that tax money then goes back and helps you. It helps me and helps all levels of government. So should the Ontario government and should the Carney liberals step up, pony up a little

bit of cash and get them through this year, hopefully then gives pride the runway to figure out how to make corporate Canada happy again with investing in pride. I again, I want to stay out of the emotion of it. I want to stay out of I have I have my own issues with the direction that pride has gone in over the past few years. But money like, I want to talk about I want to talk about the cash and the cash cash is king and pride drives money into the economy Maybe it's time that the levels of government that will benefit from that Invest at least for one year. Well, we're looking at we're looking at an additional five hundred and fifty thousand dollars here, right? it's not a lot of money compared to Compared to so it's a profligate spending that we see from all levels of government

on stuff that doesn't matter and that doesn't bring money back into the general coffers. So look, I know it's a hot button issue. Some people are going to say, I don't want my, my tax dollars going to, to pride. Don't look at it that way. It's your tax dollars going to something that will then come back to us by a large metric by a 1020x. Hey, Frank, welcome to the show. What do you think? Hey, great show, as usual. Thank you. So they often make these statements regarding events, not only the gay pride parade, show me the figures on just post, why not just be a responsible government or a mayor or whatever

the case is and posted in the newspaper broken down factual numbers. There's two problems I have with the gay parade and in terms of the gay pride parade specifically and funding it. There's 20% is overt, deviant sexuality exposed in the public. That's a problem to a lot of people and that's a fact. There's no disputing that. The second is let's see the numbers.

Let's see the factual numbers on paper. All right, Frank. Frank, I want to thank you very much. I don't have a lot of time left. So I want to go to Chantel. Chantel, thank you so much for calling in. Hi. I think that they have to be fair. If they're going to invest in pride, then they also have to invest in other events that are struggling to make things work. And these events also bring money to the city. And the main one that I'm thinking of is Carabana. They pull all the funding and they let them figure it out. I didn't know that.

I didn't know that. If that's the case, I think you're probably right. That's another cultural event that, in my estimation, I hear stories of big celebrities from around the world that come in for Carabana. So, yeah. So, so listen, I think you're probably right. It does open up a Pandora's box. I think we've got time for one more Dan, welcome to the show. What do you think? Should we be investing in pride? Ben, I'm disappointed in you on this one. This is taxpayers money.

It there's, there's, there's a pride parade in every city now. Yeah. Why are you disappointed in me? What did I do? When I hear that, because you use the word investment. Show me the numbers. Like the other caller said, I guarantee you there's 400 brifters working on the panel. I'm not suggesting that there aren't people there that you could trim the fat.

But I'm saying that it is absolutely true that over $200 million in taxable income comes in because of it. The best high-concept sci-fi rig of it all in the universe is back. What the hell? Oh, sh**. How long was I out? Close Airlock 7! Rick! Seth, please let me out!

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