The Ben Mulroney Show - Is the body positivity movement in a state of flux?

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

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Shop in store or at metro.ca. My next guest I was going to introduce as sort of as the tip of the sword and the body positivity movement. But after having done some research and done some reading, she's so much more than that. She touches on so many important topics of identity and community and family and mindfulness and connection and trauma and does so in a really, really nuanced way. And we're going to touch on all of that stuff. So without further ado, please welcome to the show. Content creator, speaker and writer Kenzie Brenna. Kenna, Kenzie, welcome to the show.

Thanks for being here. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you today, Ben. Well, okay, so if I go to your Instagram, you refer to yourself as part-time billionaire philanthropist and playboy. Love it. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Thank you. So for those listeners of this show and viewers on YouTube who don't know you and who are being introduced to you right now, how would you like them to be introduced to you? Yeah, so I'm a speaker and writer. I love talking about all of the things that I think are relevant today to me and to us socially and culturally. I really started my journey online with, you know, being a chronic dieter and then coming to learn about body positivity and the ways that we can, you know, shift our attention from always wanting to be thin to. other things and that's really where I sort of started out my journey online and yeah I think that's a good intro for people yeah what what I found as I get older and I'm more willing to talk about the issues that I have with my you know sometimes with my audience but more often than not with my

therapist is that is is that you know you're talking about body positivity but what you know that that hill that you're climbing It might be something different for someone else, but that doesn't mean that there aren't things that, you know, I can learn from you, for example. You know,

I've had, you know, my, my, my, my, um, my, um,

my, my, relationship with, with my weight, uh, has been, you know, my personal one.

Like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't suggest that, what motivates me, uh, motivates other people. And I wouldn't say I've been the healthiest in the past.

When, when I have put on weight, it has been because I am lazy, right? And I know that about myself. I would not, I would not say that writ large about, you know, people who are carrying a few extra pounds. Like everyone's got their own stuff.

So talk to me about how, you know, because everybody has their own journey, because everybody has their own stuff. And we've got these intersections of foibles and quirks and issues. How do you find a way to have a conversation that can be universal? Ooh, wow, such a good question, especially in the time. that we're in because I feel like we're so fractured with our social media feeds and everything is so hyper-personalized for us that I think talking to the universal is really important right now. So for me, when we're having these conversations particularly about body positivity or about weight in more specifically, I think that I think it's about just our connection to ourselves.

Yeah. Right? That is the universal. What connection do we have to ourselves and what is our story. That is something that everyone has. And then in that sense, you can just kind of have a conversation with someone about their story and their journey and finding what is similar. Maybe our journeys are going to be different, but the feelings that we have, the perspectives that we may have on ourselves will have similarities and universalities to it. So I think that's

like the thing that I feel like would be a good way to connect us universally. Were you a yo-yower? Did you go up and down on the scale? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Since a kid. Yeah. Yes. And what lit the fire in you to say, now I'm going to drop the weight today. Like what were some of those triggers that would have you say, yeah, I'm going to starve myself for three months? Yeah. Again, such a good question because I think what that question allows us to focus on are the external things that happen to us that make us focus inward. So for me, it would always be about not being able to, you know, change into my friends' clothes if we're going to a party, right? So it became something that's social or something that I would see in like the movies or magazines and then that way I would want to emulate that. then all of a sudden I would say, okay, I'm going to crash diet, I'm going to do this, or I have a party that I want to go to on Friday,

I want to drop, you know, five pounds for it, and that would be the impetus to be thin. Yeah. And then at what point did you get off of that roller coaster? And did you, was it making peace with, this is how God made me,

or was it something else? You know, after a very long, life of hating myself, I finally said I have to try something different. You know what? Hating myself hasn't gotten me the results that I want, not only in terms of being thin, but also in the sense of being happy. That I just could not hate myself to being happy. So that's where really I found, well, what's the opposite of hating myself?

And that's where I found the neutrality and bar. body acceptance and body positivity. I saw something on social media just yesterday. There was a study that was done that the happiest men in the world are about 15 pounds overweight because they appreciate that that level of, you know, that extra weight indicates that they have not sacrificed the things that make them happy. Like that's really what it comes down to. But, you know, it feels like, and I want this to be an honest respect.

respectful conversation. If you ever feel that I'm saying something that is untoward, like, slap me back into place. No. But this is, I love it. I want to make sure that we're having, it feels to me that over the past 10 years, there were movements that came up

that were full of good intention and that yielded some really good results, right? And I'll give you an example, the idea of representation on television, right? And the idea of you can't be what you can't see. And as somebody who worked in television who looks as I look, when I saw the videos of

little black girls seeing a Disney princess who looked like them. That to me resonated hard, hard. And I was like, hey, that's great. But it does feel that with these movements,

in certain cases, there was an overcorrection that happened. Or when somebody would express confusion over the path we were on, they would get slapped down hard. And I wonder what you think of where we went, where we started on the body positivity

train, where we got to and where we are today. Because it's not a straight line. And I wonder whether we are in a better place today than we were. Yes. I think that the body positivity community really started out for that earnest representation, but it went further than that. And for important reasons that there was a type of discrimination that plus-sized people experience, medically, socially, culturally, that that was sort of what body positivity became after

2015, 2016 was, you know, talking about ways that we don't want to be discriminated against it. And there would be different people talking about that from different avenues. And then, you know, like with any movement, like you said, there are ups and downs and there are 10 steps forward and 10 steps back, I think it got very, very restrictive in terms of who was allowed to be body positive, who wasn't, what those terms even meant. And now I think we're seeing the pendulum swing sort of the opposite direction. You know, we got almost in a place where I guess maybe culture or socially we felt like,

okay, it's too vague, it's too accepting, where there's no definition of what health is or who can be body positive and it's very restrictive at the same time. So now we're, I think we're actually seeing the pendulum swing in the opposite direction. Yeah. And I'm not 100% sure what the status is of the body positivity community right now. Well, listen, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, that's exactly where I want to go. You know, the idea that how one presents physically doesn't necessarily indicate how healthy they are,

I think is a great, great thing. There have been people, I believe, who've weaponized that on both sides. And I want to talk about that. And then I want to talk about the big bad O word, O Zempic, and how it feels like it got dropped like a bomb in this entire conversation. So don't go anywhere. My conversation with Kenzie Brenna continues after the break on the Ben Mulroney show. Is it really the right time to make the change?

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who has been the tip of the spear on the body positivity front for a lot of people and for a long time. Kenzie, before we get to that, let's talk about where I think it would have been awesome if this conversation sort of, if the pendulum stopped in the middle and everybody sort of could rally around the idea that, yeah, you know what? The lead in a romantic comedy can be a full-figured woman. And there are exceptionally healthy people who don't look like a stick figure. I mean, that, to me, makes sense. And that would have been a great place if it had ended there. But it seems like it didn't end there. And it got weaponized on both sides. You had people who refused to acknowledge that even a little bit of curviness could indicate health. And then on the other side, you had people who, if we're being honest, absolutely were not taking care of themselves, but were shielding themselves with this movement against any, depending on who they were, either criticism or genuine worry for their health.

And because of that, I think that was the seam that OZempic used to grab people like Megan Trainor and take them off the board. I completely agree with what you're saying, and I don't think that what you're saying is unreasonable at all. I think that one of the biggest factors of the body positivity community that I think is really important to highlight is the fact that a person is not the sum of their health, because all of us have the chance of getting really sick really quickly, all of us. And if, sorry, apologies for that. if we get sick really quickly, that still doesn't necessarily mean that we have a self-worth problem or anything like that. So I think that the, I'm so sorry. I got to ask what that is.

Sorry. Is it the world's smallest parade going through your living room? I wish that would actually, that would be more entertaining than what's actually happening. So I think that the pendulum swinging. being right in the middle would be, I mean, that's never how culture and our social lives actually are, but people weaponized it because maybe they didn't want to look at their health. Other people, like you said, for sure, were really, really hard on the body positivity community because they felt like body positivity equals no regards to health whatsoever, that you don't

have to address health and that you're allowed to be as unhealthy as possible. and it doesn't really matter and you should love me and think I'm beautiful no matter what. And I just want to clarify, that is not what the body positivity community is about. Don't, anyone who's spreading that message, I don't know what they are. But listen, you know how social media is the louder the person, the more obnoxious the message, the more they're going to get kicked up the algorithm. And so those voices end up populating what people think that movement is because those are the loudest voices. exactly they are the loudest voices and they are the ones that honestly unfortunately get the most

amount of attention because they are so extreme so they make themselves a spectacle they make the message a spectacle and then the nuance and gray area of that gets lost because you have legitimate people who exist in the body that they do and they're saying I'm not defined by my body. That's it. And then there are other people who are saying that and they also don't want to look at their health. And then there are thin people who discredit it because they see one person, you know, maybe misusing the representation. And I think that's where we, then we all get lost. And so I think what you're saying is very reasonable that there are people that come from, that come in all different shapes and sizes. And we all vary on the spectrum of health. And at some,

part, at some extreme end, it's not good. And at another extreme end, it's also not good. So talk to me about somebody who has sort of made her living in this space as, as, and it seems to me that you take a real, a holistic approach to this entire conversation. And then you've got the sort of the big headline grabbers, the Megan Trainers, the Lizzo's, the Amy Schumers, all, all of whom were staunch, proud. self-avowed members of that, of that, or I don't know if they're members of the community or they were simply pushing that conversation forward, all of a sudden, do something that made them look not the way they did, and then those voices go away.

What does that, what did that do to the lay of the land in the world that you live in? Yeah, I think that the way that you framed it is incredibly correct, that they were pushing the message of this body positive. of self-acceptance. And at the same time, we can all objectively come together to form common sense that the women that you named were also not plus-size. That there's, they were, they might have been a bit curvy for Hollywood, but they're not plus-sized people. And they, but they were pushing messages about self-acceptance and loving themselves and everything.

Sorry, I think maybe you might mention Lizzo, who, of course, absolutely was plus-sized. But But the fact that, you know, they're plus size and then they switched. So the fact that they were talking about acceptance and being plus size and being whatever body and shape you have and loving it and then they switched, that it creates, like, that creates a fracture. That's really hard because it's like you're being sold one type of messaging and one type of brand ultimately. And then now it switched over into something else.

And there's something that is tricky about it because you get into the topic of, you know, autonomy, but then at the same time, you kind of are leading your audience and your community away from what your initial whole idea of who you were was. Yeah. Did, uh, did, did, uh, did, did you ever hear the siren song of Manjaro or Zempec or anything like that? Like, do you mean, did it in. me? Like, did I hear it? I don't know. I either did it entice you or did somebody in your life say this is something you should try or do you know somebody who did and was talking about how great. I mean, listen, it exists, right? And it's there and there are some people who, and by the way, if those women that that I listed were to say, were to come out and say, you know what, it was time for me to do something. I did something and I did. And I'm glad I did. I mean, more power to them, you know. I've got your body, your choice.

I think that would probably be a more authentic thing than to just up and give up on all the things that they were saying before. But, you know, so there's all sorts of different ways that it comes into somebody's life. But did it ever collide with you? Was it ever conversation that you had? No, not for me personally. I mean, I've had certain companies reach out to me to do sponsored posts for it. And I've declined. It's just not in line with my ethics.

And I've had friends that have been on it that got really sick from it, but then had benefits from weight loss. And they specifically wanted to lose weight not for aesthetic reasons, for mobility reasons. And in that case, it was really liberating for them. But no, for me personally, I've never, yeah, I've never felt the pressure to be on it or anything. It's also really expensive. So I would rather get, I don't know, if I really. wanted to lose weight and I would rather get a gym membership and just if I if I wanted to but yeah. So Kenzie in the last minute we have where is the body positivity movement today as you see it?

Oh my gosh. I think that I'm going to say I don't know and I don't want that to be a disappointing answer but I want that to be clear in the sense that I genuinely could not tell you. I think it is so up in the air. I think that it is emblematic of a large. larger societal and cultural issue that we're having right now of where, where are our social movements, you know, today. So I think we're in a period of transition. And I think in the next couple of years, we will regain our footing to know exactly where we are, where we stand, and what messages we ultimately want to convey to the world in the community. And Kenzie, I think you and I can both agree that there's just too many damn recipes online using

cottage cheese. I mean, it's just enough, right? Like enough. Enough is enough. Enough is enough. Kenzie Brenna, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. All the best to you. Thanks, Ben. You too. All right. When we come back, we want to hear from you. Do you feel that the rise in weight loss drugs has shifted public attitudes towards body positivity? How do you feel about your own health, your own body image?

Let us know. Give us a call after the break. And we want to talk to you. I have an honest conversation about how we see ourselves. What is healthy to you? What defines health in your life? Is it, you know, is it a size zero? Is it bulging biceps? Is it eating more protein than one can stomach?

Oh, the macros on this or through the roof. I want to hear from you. And look, I do believe that this movement has consumed men as well. I don't think there's ever been a time. Amazing days is on now with your local metro. Save big on amazing items like selected varieties of Jameson vitamins only 498 each and 10 pound bags of white potatoes just

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Where men weren't as concerned with how they look and how they present as now. I mean, back in the day when a man wore a suit all time, you could hide a lot under a suit. I used to be able to hide a lot under a suit. And now that's not the case anymore. And we see it in the stars that we connect with. You know, Kumail Nanjiani is one of the funniest guys I've ever seen. He was on the show Silicon Valley.

And then he took a job in a Marvel movie called Eternals where he got ripped. I mean, ripped. Came out of nowhere. Came out of nowhere. Did not expect this from Kumil Nanjiani. Well, he just did a stand-up special where he talked about the repercussions of getting ripped in the public eye. I don't want you to feel sorry for me. I don't, but I get to feel sorry for me.

This is my life. I'm inside of here. I worked really hard for a year on something that I thought was going to be awesome. When it came out, everyone was like, no, it sucks. Also, we think you're stupid. Also, we've decided you're going to be the first person we mock for getting in shape. What? How the fucking...

That's happened with nobody else in the history of civilization. Why Lee? Oh, he got amped. What a moron. What? Who changed the rules? Why didn't anybody give me a heads up? Do you know how hard this was? I have not smelled cake in years.

And now I know all of you are waiting for me to go back to how I was. I want to make you so happy if I go back to how I was. So now I'm stuck in this prison because I don't want to give you the satisfaction. Yeah, yeah. And just last week I saw Ed Shearan. See what Ed Shearin looks like now? That looks like a superhero. So all that stuff affects regular people.

It affects me. It affects you. And so we want to hear from you. 4168-7-0-6400. 1-3-8-2-25 talk. And, you know, in my conversation that I just had with Kenzie Brenna, you know, I suggested that had this conversation ended in a nice middle ground, that would have been one thing.

But both sides weaponized. And on one hand, you had people saying that anyone who looks at, certain way is unhealthy. And then the other side, you had people who were clearly, clearly not taking care of themselves, would push back aggressively on any commentary that they could do better. And so those are the loudest voices right now. And then, of course, you got the OZempic people who are just tamping down on it completely. Let's welcome Jim to the call. Hey, Jim, how are you? Good, Ben. How are you? I'm well. I'm well. So how do you see yourself in this, in this world we live in?

You know, I'm a 68-year-old man. I'm a gym freak. So I'm always in the gym. You're looking at yourself. It's like, oh, my abs don't show enough. My quads aren't big enough, blah, blah, blah. And so when you said the average guy is probably happier 15 to 20 pounds over, I think there's a lot to be said for that because, I mean, we are our own worst critic.

There's no doubt about it. So you're all, you know, you're always like, oh, can I? I better this, can I better at? And the age I'm at, I mean, obviously things are, you know, gravity's going the wrong way. Well, Jim, let me ask you a question. How active were you in your youth? You know what? I've probably been doing this since I was in my 20s. It's like high school ended and it's like, oh, I got to do something. So I started the gym. I mean, that's how that went. Yeah. And like I said, and in my conversation I had with Kenzie, I wanted, I pointed out off the top, like every one of us, we have our own stuff that's going on in our own head.

We have our own stuff, the external stuff that is buttressing against us. And so every one of us has our own reasons for either being overweight, too thin, too lazy, eat poorly, is too regimented. We all have our own stuff. And for me, I absolutely know that when I am carrying 10 extra pounds, that is a sign that I'm not taking care of myself. That is a sign that I've let things go. that is a sign that I'm not disciplined. That is a sign that other things in my life I'm probably dropping the ball on. And so for me personally, if I am, if I'm looking to, for me, what appears to be physically fit and trim,

then that is a sign that I'm checking a lot of other boxes. And I wouldn't suggest that that is a rule for anybody. It's just a rule for me. Yeah. I mean, for me and myself, it comes down to a mindset. Yeah. just how, you know, how bad do you want to do this or do you want to do that and you'll get it done. Yeah.

I mean, life, life gets in the way. Yeah. No doubt about it. Yeah. But you know what? I mean, for me, myself and like what I do, I mean, you can't take an hour, an hour and a half for yourself each day. Yeah, but sometimes I, sometimes I want that hour and a half to be sitting on the couch watching some really bad TV. Well, I heard a great tip from some guy online who's like,

Just figure out what your floor is, right? Figure out what the bare minimum is that you're willing to do every day. You know, and if that means going for a 15-minute walk, if whatever is going to unlock that feeling of, I did something today, then figure out what that is. And then do that every day. Do at least that every day. And if you can do that, you'll be okay.

Yeah, I think too also don't try to be in a hurry for any of these things. I mean, you know, look at yourself, love yourself. don't get too worked up about it and just, you know, do what you think you need to do. And then just, you know, try to get it done best you can. Hey, Jim, thanks so much for calling. I appreciate it. Yeah, look, I've had times after my dad passed away, I was, I'd never been, I'd never been bigger. I'd never been carrying more weight.

And again, it was because I was not taking care of myself. And then when dad died, I was, I was emotional. I was an emotional eater. And I know that about myself. And then something happened. I think it was as simple. I think it was as simple as this. I was at a crossroads where it was either buy a new suit in a bigger size or do something

about it. I could not stand the thought of spending money to prop up a version of myself that I wasn't proud of. And I just started walking everywhere. And the walking gave me the discipline to sort of focus winnow down on the food I was eating. and then I start feeling good about myself again. And again, when we get to the body positivity thing,

I do think that we needed a course correction in society. I do think that people who didn't fit the beauty stereotype and the healthy stereotype were unfairly marginalized. But like with so many movements, there were people on either side of that that took advantage of that moment to push for their own agenda. I was very happy to hear Kenzie say, you know, those people who are saying that there is no such thing as unhealthy are not part of the body positivity movement.

It was a really great conversation. I thank her for what was an honest conversation. I think we moved the ball forward. Brian, welcome to the show. Brian, welcome to the show. Oh, hey, how's it going? It's going well, thank you. I just want to say absolutely love that you're on this spot now.

Oh, thank you. So, yeah, it was actually previously. injured and I was off work for six years. I went back to school and in that time I took it upon myself. I had a free gym membership and I was like well if I'm not going to get in the shape now I'm never going to do it so I went from 250 and I went down all the way to 190 wow well now that I'm back working it's so hard everyone's super busy you always have things on the go and it's like you have you have to take time to try to work out because you make a million excuses. But what it comes down to most of it is just healthy, cautious choices about what you eat

and what you consume and just that alone is the biggest part of the problem. Brian, thank you so much for the call. Mark, I've got about 20 seconds for you, but I want you to tell me your story real quick. Ryan, you there? Mark, you there? Yes, sir. Mark, real quick, because we're up against the clock. Tell me your story, because it's incredible. Well, I went from about 260 down to almost 160 at one point.

Decided I got too skinny, but I was doing it the right way, Jim, eating better, calculating every calorie. I'm glad to hear. Thanks for sharing, my friend. Everybody, I have an announcement. Your favorite family in law is Lawyering 101 is back. This is going to be fun. Controversial cases.

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