The Ben Mulroney Show - Is the CBC Going Too Far in the Name of Neutrality?

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

Warren Kinsella, from the Daisy Group and Former Strategist to Prime Minister Jean Chrietien, joins Ben Mulroney to examine controversy surrounding an alleged CBC directive on how journalists should describe the September 11 attacks. They also discuss Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow’s CNN appearance and criticism from mayoral candidate Brad Bradford over how she represented the city on the international stage. If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer: Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Very glad to be joined by a very good friend of the show, very good friend of mine, Warren Kinsella,

who wrote in the Toronto Sun that he came across a memo from the CBC, an internal directive instructing journalist, not to describe the September 11th, 2001 attacks in the United States as a, quote, terrorist attack or refer to the perpetrators as, quote, terrorists without context or attribution, preferring more neutral language. In other words, they will call it that thing if somebody else calls it that thing. But to them, I think they want to call it something like a hijacking that led to a plane crash. I don't know a single person who thinks this is a good thing.

but let's hear from the man who broke the story. Warren Kinsella, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me, my friend. So there are some people online, some of whom I have great respect for, and some of whom I trust for thinking things through, who say that that distinction of attribution is the nuance that should make us not feel

our blood boiling over something like this. What do you say? I think they're dreaming in technicolor, and so is CBC. on 25 years ago, on September the 11th, you know, we had this terrible event where there were Canadians killed, thousands of Americans killed. And by like the dictionary definition, Ben, as you know, of terrorism is using violence to achieve some political or ideological or religious objective. Yeah. That's what September 11th was.

That's what 9-11 was. Yeah. And the fact that CBC won't call it that. That's why there's some good people within CBC. You and I both know who they are. We probably shouldn't name them. And one of them sent me this memo that was issued mid-morning on Tuesday. And it was sent to all CBC staff.

And so they must have known that it was going to leak out at some point because it was extraordinary. Yeah. It wasn't just advice. It was a directive from management saying, you shall not call 9-11 terrorism. You shall not. And that's appalling. It's disgusting. And if that doesn't qualify for the state broadcaster's news division to call terrorism, then nothing is terrorism.

Right? I mean, that's the ultimate conclusion. I'm sorry, the Oklahoma City Bonn, I mean, yeah, that's not terrorism. that was, I don't know what you call that. That was just a disgruntled former employee or something like that. Yeah. What do you call murderer? Is it that the involuntary cessation of biological functions?

Yeah. Like it's absurd. Like we owe guys like you and me owe an obligation to our readers, to our listeners, to our viewers, to tell them the truth and to reflect reality to the best of our ability. And that's particularly the case for the CBC, which receives from us, the tax. taxpayer $1.6 billion last year. $1.6 billion with a B. And Warren.

So the guy, they have the means to get the truth. They've got the means. And there's so many things we got to, the threads we got to pull at here. But not the least of which is this, this came on high from a guy who, I believe in his bio, it says something like he's responsible for public trust. how comfortable these people must be in their station and in their position in society that they think that they can say something like this and not and there would be no pushback. I mean, they really, they really know Pierre Poliyev is not, is not prime minister and that

defunding them is nowhere is not on the horizon. It's it's it's it's it's, it's, it's, it's grotesque. But I want to go back and and talk about this from a political. standpoint because this can't be helpful to our prime minister who is who is trying to thread a needle and get a deal. And for Americans who don't know enough about Canada, they look at this and they see the CBC speaking for Canada. This cannot help. I saw influential American people on social media. Most of them are on the right who say, oh, great, this is our friend. This is what people think of what happened to us on September 11th.

Yeah, it's front page news, New York Post. Yeah, New York City paper, big paper is saying, look what they're saying about us. And so it makes them a little less sympathetic for the Lake America nonsense, doesn't it? Yeah. And it's just like it's not something that we should be doing as a country, because you're quite right. If the House of Commons was sitting here instead of being on this extended break that they've gone, this, I'm sure, would be the first.

his question the peer Pali of asked Mark Carney is does the prime minister agree that 9-11 was not a terrorist attack and you know I'm sure Carney would say well you know the CBC's entitled to their own editorial standards but this is an affront to people's common sense it's an affront to the historical record and it cannot stand and I think I think the CBC made it worse for themselves and because it is 9-11 it's a 25th anniversary coming up Like, my friend, I have heard from a wife of a man who lost his life on that day, Canadian, and she was so upset saying, I cannot believe you have done this CBC. So the victims of 9-11.

Yeah. Oh, I think we lost, we lost Warren. We got to get them back here. One thing that I'll bring up right now, and I'll bring it up with Warren when he comes back. But a few months ago, our prime minister felt that an affront. to French Canadians and to the lives lost at LaGuardia Airport by two Air Canada pilots, there was an affront to them and to their memories. And Warren's back, Warren, I'm telling a story here about our prime minister taking the CEO of Air Canada to task

because of his lack of French and his disrespect to the memory of two lost pilots at LaGuardia. Oh, he's gone again. that he was so upset by that. This is what he said. This is what he said. Mark Carney. We live, as I just said, in a bilingual country. We proudly live in a bilingual country.

And companies like Air Canada particularly have a responsibility to always communicate in both official languages, regardless of the situation. I'm very disappointed, as others are, rightly so. in this unilingual message of the CEO of Air Canada. It doesn't matter the circumstance, but particularly in these circumstances, lack of judgment and lack of compassion, lack of compassion. And as you know, the Committee of Official Languages has summoned the CEO to appear before it. I will follow his comments closely and comments which I would expect.

and due course from the board of directors. Warren Concella is back. Warren, if Mark Carney said that when two pilots died in New York, why I expect and kind of demand the same treatment for the CBC's news leadership for being disrespectful to the lives of 26 lost Canadians in New York. And I think he's going to face some pressure for that because I was surprised Ben this afternoon after our story broke yesterday, Anthony Housefather,

who is a liberal, prominent, liberal MP for Mount Royal, as you know, condemned what the CBC has done. And said, it's obviously a terrorist event. You should not be doing this. So I'm hearing from people

on all sides of the aisle saying this time, CBC has gone too far. And I think they know they're in trouble. This is front page news in Israel. It's front page news in the United States. And I think that they need, to reevaluate their policy. However, in fairness to them, they say other news agencies do this.

Yes, that's true. They say that, you know, we've always had this position. Yes, that's true. But like, guys, as we say to our kids, you know, just because somebody else doesn't, doesn't mean that you should do it. And you particularly shouldn't do it on the occasion of 9-11. Yeah. That was a terrorist attack. That's what the Saudis say. The Saudis, the 19 terrorists who carried out this attack. The Saudis, most of them were Saudis and the Saudis call it a terrorist attack. It's absurd. As I pointed out, we didn't change every aspect of how we travel and how we live and how we view security in the Western world because of a plane crash. We did so because of a terrorist attack. And that's, that's, that's, no one's going to change my mind on that. We're going to do something very interesting. Warren Consell is going to take off his, his hat that looks at issues like this.

and he's going to put on his municipal affairs hat. And we're going to talk about the day that was on the campaign trail. I personally think it was a very good day for one candidate, less so for another. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. I've carried over a guest from the previous segment into this one because he is a man of many talents and he wears many hats. And in this segment, he will be wearing the hat of analyst of municipal affairs. Please welcome back to the show, Warren Kinsella.

Warren of the daisy group and former strategist for Jean Cretein. Remind me, are you involved in any way in this municipal election? I am indeed, full disclosure. I am a longtime friend of Brad Bradford. I mean, I've been a constituent of his in Beaches, East York, and I am supporting him in his run to be mayor of Toronto. Well, look, you know, that to me is very interesting because you're firmly a liberal. I'm not a member of the Conservative Party, but I would call myself.

a small C conservative, and we're both like many liberals and conservatives rallying behind this candidate, which I think is what he's trying. That's the coalition he's trying to build. Meanwhile, on the other side, you've got Olivia Chow, who we were reminded today by the Bradford campaign that upon becoming mayor, refused to tear up her membership to the NDP. And so I think that is going to be something that he reminds people of, that you know, that he reminds people of that, you know, if you think, just remember, that's her party. And this is a, this is a city

that practically gave itself over unanimously to Mark Carney and his liberals federally. I wonder if you think that's a good strategy. I think, uh, it is telling the truth. Yeah. And, you know, Olivia herself has given talk saying, I have always been a new Democrat. I am a new Democrat. She said, I'm probably going to die a new Democrat. And she's a new Democrat. And she's a new Democrat, right? And so she's not afraid of that, and we're not afraid of shining a light on that because that is something that concerns, not just conservatives, but liberals too across the city. So we're hearing from people on the Bradford campaign that they object to the fact that they have this card carrying new Democrat as mayor. And if you look at her decisions, it kind of reflects that ideology.

Well, we're going to go through what happened on the campaign trail today because I do believe, that today was probably one of Brad's best days, but it comes on the heels of what he referred to as a squandered opportunity by our mayor due to her appearance on CNN. What did you make of Olivia Chow on CNN yesterday? Well, there's this stuff. She's talking about taking a page

from Dolly Parton's book. And like it was bizarre. It was a great opportunity to tell the story of Toronto and push back in a diplomatic way against President Trump. And she didn't take advantage of that opportunity. And the thing is that, you know, I've learned, and I know her. I've known her for years.

Olivia's a terrible communicator. Like she couldn't announce a trip to the bathroom without a teleprompter. And so like she's just, she's not good at that stuff. So I think it's going to be a problem for her in the debates. This, but, you know, what's been happening over the past four months? It's the preseason, right? It's the regular season. The playoffs come after labor.

that's when it starts happening. And right now, you know, Bradford and Chow are within shooting distance of each other. And I think the other guy, I forget his name. I don't think he's a factor at all. I think you interviewed him a few days ago. Yeah, yeah, I did. But I got to say, I watch this stuff more closely than most. And what I saw from Brad first is the fact that he highlighted, I think it was City News.

So she went on CNN. But when City News asked her and her campaign for a similar conversation about how can how can the city of Toronto protect itself against Donald Trump's tariffs? Not only did she not appear, but they didn't even send in a statement. Meanwhile, he went into the studio and gave them seven minutes. And then from there, he left to go to a bread factory where he pointed out that in order to balance her NDP budget, Olivia Chow rated the rainy day fund to the tune of a billion dollars.

And then he looked in the camera, he said, Madam Mayor, it's raining. And I think that's a, that was a heck of a, I mean, if he's just, if he's just, if he's road testing ideas and themes and lines, then I think he hit him out of the park with that one. Yeah, I think it's rolling through the parking lot too, because he, I don't want to give away the special sauce, but I think you're going to be seeing more of that in the coming days where Bradford is going to be talking about ideas about dealing with this existential threat because it is an existential threat for thousands of families within the city of Toronto who are looking at losing their jobs in all kinds of different sectors.

He is going to be speaking to them and addressing that. And the problem that Chow has got is not just on crime, not just on congestion, but on the cost of everything, people feel they don't hate her. They just feel that she hasn't done a good job. And Bradford, I think, is going to be zeroing in right on that because he's just got more credibility on the economic front. Yeah, she's not unlikable. She's very likable.

I find myself feeling warm and fun. whenever I'm around her. She gives off that sort of almost like a grandma vibe in a lot of ways. And that is kind of her superpower in a lot of ways. But I also wonder if there is, if thematically, as we are as we are uniting and we've got this moment of galvanizing Canadianness fighting against Donald Trump who wants to steal our sovereignty, is there an argument to be made Warren against the most progressive forces on city council who seem hell-bent? on identity politics that are designed, designed to divide us? Is that something that can be played?

Yeah, no, for sure. And you look at Gord Perks, you know, when he finally resigned, thank God from counsel, saying that, you know, capitalism is a disaster. And it's like, well, okay, Gord, but that's actually the system we've got. Yeah. And it actually, you know, employs a whole bunch of people in the city of Toronto. Like that is Olivia Chow's constituency. And for sure, she is not somebody you can hate, but you know, to use your grandmother analogy,

she's like the grandmother shows up the family gathering and everybody kind of wishes she would stop talking. Like that's where we're at right now with Olivia is people feel like the city is in rut. They feel like the city is stuck and they feel like she's not dealing with the main things, which is cost and congestion and the crime situation. And now, you know, on Trump and on this threat that we're facing, whether it's, you know, Lake America or what have you. She's just, she's not in the game. She's not a factor.

You know, when I, when I interviewed Chris Alexander, and I'll say it every time I mention him, I absolutely commend him for coming in here and sitting and taking my questions. I told him they would be tough. He took them. He answered them as best as he could. And so I absolutely have a great deal of respect for him for that. But when we laid bare the fact that he's got sort of these secret endorsers, so an endorsement without any value behind it or any proof that he's got them, you would have thought after

that had been picked up by a number of people, you would have thought that his campaign would have orchestrated a flurry of announcements of endorsements over the following few days. I still, for the life of me, can't understand what's making this candidate or campaign tick. Well, you know, you've heard the invisible man. It's the invisible campaign. We don't think there's anybody behind the curtain either. So why is he doing it? Is it ego gone wild? Is it self-delusion? Or is somebody put them up to it? It could be all to the above. But the bottom line, the big problem with Chris Alexander, and there are many problems, you know, the barbaric snitch line and attacking journalists who are good journalists and locking her up, you know, all this kind of stuff

he said. The big problem with him is he shaved some points off of Brad Bradford, which is in a tight race with Libya Chow and he reelects Olivia Chow, which is the point you made in that now famous interview with him is like, hey, Chris, you know, you're going to help reelect Olivia Chow if this continues the way it's going. And that is the big problem. Everybody, if you want to have Olivia Chow back, Chris Alexander's your guy. He is helping to reelect her. Well, I'm hoping that as we get closer to the election war, and we can bring you on as well as perhaps some people involved with the Olivia Chow campaign. If Chris is still in it, we'll bring some people on as well. And we'll do a big roundtable conversation about the issues facing our city and how each

respective campaign is going to face them. I thank you for your time on both subjects today. Thanks, my friend.