The Ben Mulroney Show - Is the warning for Canadians going to the US overblown?

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

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That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Mulrooney. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. It is Thursday, October 2nd. I spent all morning thinking it was Friday until the producers of the morning show here. I said, hey, am I participating in this chat? He goes, no, you don't do it today. And I said, sure I do. It's Friday.

And then I found out it was Thursday. But I didn't wake up today thinking, thank God it's the end of the week. It's been a wonderful week. It's been a great collegial environment in the studio and very happy to have an extra day in this week. At least, that's how I saw it this morning. Has Mark Carney lowered the temperature with the United States? That is the question that we're asking ourselves this morning. We have this push-pull relationship of recognizing that on so many fronts we are friends and more, in a lot of cases,

more than friends. We call ourselves sometimes, you know, we reference them as our cousins to the south. But we know that over the past few months, that relationship has been strained due in no small part to the president of the United States and his antagonistic view of what has always been a productive, respectful relationship. One of the great relationships between two nations in the history of the world. That is not an overstatement. It's a fact. And to understand where that relationship is, rather than look at Mark Carney and Donald Trump, let's zoom in to a relationship between a province and a state between Ontario and Michigan, between Doug Ford and Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan. And they were together to discuss a number of issues. Gretchen Whitmer warned about tariffs.

She said that Donald Trump's tariffs are hit in Michigan's agriculture and manufacturing, especially hard, given the state's deep economic ties to Canada. She called for stronger ties in trade. She urged a return to strengthening the Kuzma relationship. I always call it NAFTA. I mean, it's essentially the same deal. Stressing that Michigan, quote, feels the pain of tariffs harder and faster than almost any other state. her provincial analog, Doug Ford, echoed those concerns, highlighting the $61 billion in two-way trade between Ontario and Michigan,

emphasizing the auto industry's cross-border integration. And that can't be lost in this discussion. When we talk about the integration of our automotive industry, we're talking really about Ontario and Michigan. And they got together and shared their, talked about shared projects and outlook. Both leaders praise the soon-to-be-opened Gordy Howe International Bridge. And I love that it's called the Gordy Howe International Bridge. The funny thing is you talk to people down in Windsor and they go and they think it's awesome.

But then they get, but the younger generations go, who's Gordy Howe? It's sad, but. You know, I'm just going to, I'm going to really lean into being old here. Like, I, ah. But especially people in Michigan who aren't as hockey oriented. We know the Gordy Howe name so much more than, and here. He was a star in Detroit, which is what they do. Look, I guarantee you that there are 12-year-olds in Montreal

who know who Rocket Richard is. You know, they know who Maurice Richard is. They know who Jean-Belle-Vote is. It's hockey culture. It's the difference. Yeah, but it's called Hockey Town USA. I know. That's what they call themselves.

It's a marketing ploy. It's not true. Anyway, but that bridge, the story of that bridge is a wild one, right? Like, I didn't know that the Ambassador Bridge was owned by one dude. And he was the sticking point for years. Yeah, he blocked the other bridge. He blocked the other bridge. And kudos to whoever put that thing.

I think my sister had a hand in that. My sister, full disclosure. Ryan Massey had a big hand in that as well. My sister is a member of Doug Ford's cabinet. Just want everybody to know. But I do, like that is the most important artery for trade in the country as it relates to our relationship with the United States. And one guy, one guy blocked it for years.

So here's hoping that when that finally, opens, we can resume and accelerate the trade that that state and this province depend on. Let's listen to a little bit of a Gretchen Whitmer's perspective. Tariffs have been incredibly challenging for Michigan. Michigan, we grow things and we make things. It is agriculture that has hit so hard and it is manufacturing, and that's who we are. That's what we do. There's a saying in the United States, if we catch a cold,

Michigan gets the flu. We feel the pain of tariffs harder and faster than almost any other state. All right. So that's the state of play. And there's a lot about our relationship with the United States that Mark Carney had nothing to do with. He doesn't have to own all of it, but he doesn't have to own some of it. And I got to wonder about this next story. And I don't know how I feel about it. I'm going to tell you what I'm thinking, but I'm not married to this perspective. You know, I woke up this morning to a story about a U.S. travel advisory that was issued by Canada for Canadians going down to the United States. And they said that there is a risk to Canadian permanent residents in the U.S. Their status can be reassessed and revoked for reasons such as

prior criminal convictions or extended absences from the U.S. visas are also subject to periodic review and termination. I don't think that's not, that's not a, that's not a carny issue. No, that's actually not even unreasonable. That's what countries do all over the world. Yeah, but But we have a relationship that goes back, a longstanding relationship that goes back a long time. It's almost like there's a Canadian exception. And for some reason, to treat us like every other country, I don't know how that's helpful. I don't know how that's helpful. Absolutely.

The part that I'm still wrestling with is the advisory on gender marker restriction. So as we know, Donald Trump's executive order eliminates recognition of the ex-gender marker. Canadians applying for visas, passports, or nexus cards must declare sex. assigned at birth. I mean, that makes sense. If you're playing, if you, if you want access to the Americans by way of that shared document, the nexus document, if they don't recognize X, then, I'm sorry, then, then you got to play ball with them on that front. To suggest that there, that LGBT concerns, to suggest that they, that they, they could be in danger in traveling, I don't know that that's helpful. I don't know. I think it's, I think there's some

truth to it, though. And when you consider, tell me, tell me, I'm genuinely, want to know. Well, remember, we did a story a couple of months ago about how there are a lot of trans people in the United States who are seeking asylum in Canada because of the fact that they don't feel safe because of the policies of Donald Trump and the administration.

Fair enough, but, and again, good faith question, is there a difference between feeling unsafe and actually being unsafe? Yes. Well, it depends where you are. Yeah, but I'd like to know what we're talking about. I'd like to, I'd like to, like to, like,

I get if you feel unsafe, but feeling unsafe can come from a lot of places. If you hear on the news that you're unsafe, you're going to feel unsafe. That doesn't make you unsafe necessarily. But I wonder if the increased risks generally just mean the risk of getting pulled aside and being sent back as opposed to a physical risk. Okay, so what is not, here's another thing that is not Mark Carney's fault, but still something we all have to deal with. This is happening on his watch, and I hope that he's got teams of people, that he's

marshalling resources to help get us through these tough times. Because of the U.S. government shut down after the Republicans and Democrats were deadlocked over extending the Affordable Care Act tax credits, I don't know if anybody listening knows, but the American government is effectively shut down right now. The impact on Canadians could be real. Travel between Canada and the U.S. continues, but there could be delays at airports and borders. For some reason, national parks are still open. But if you want to get across the border for business, for pleasure,

you may be encountering a slowdown because I'm guessing you have fewer employees working that Customs and Border Patrol. National parks open. Trump's tariffs, so you'll remember 35%. They remain in effect. And of course, we've got this 100% tariff threat. It's just a threat at this point on foreign-made films, which I don't know what makes a film foreign.

And I don't know that the president knows either. Like I said yesterday, Marvel Studios that produces billion-dollar hit after billion-dollar hit because of higher costs associated with operating in the state of Georgia. They're moving to the UK. They're decamping and going to the UK. Does that mean that these Marvel movies that make money for an American corporation, i.e. Disney? Does that make them foreign-made films? I don't know.

I don't know. What about a Canadian movie that shoots its entirety in the United States? What makes, and what about co-productions? And how are you going to tariff them? Like, how? And it doesn't matter. The movie gets shot somewhere and then it comes to the United States and it makes money for cinema goers and for streamers.

There's money to be made there. Why tariff that? I think it's just because he loves tariffs and he said as much. But we want to hear from you. Have you gone through border security recently? How did it go? Is it getting harder? Are you worried about travel to the United States?

Do you feel unsafe when you cross the border? We want to hear from you next on the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney's show. We put the call out to our listeners. We want to ask you, have you gone through border security entering the United States recently? Has it changed since over the past few months? Has it become more difficult? Are you having issues?

Maybe you're not. And if you have gone to the United States, are you feeling less safe? And so that was the call we put out. We've got some calls already lined up. Let's welcome Mark to the conversation. Welcome, my friend. Oh, hi. How you doing?

I'm good, thanks. So, yeah, for me, it's been great. If anything, I feel more safe. I think people need to remember that it's been our country that's had the open borders for the last 10 years, not the U.S. When we rely on intelligence, you know, reports, where do they typically come from? They come from the U.S. You know, they got their act together down there. Yeah, but Mark, hold on a second.

Let's keep this conversation going. There is, you know, there has been talk that if customs and border patrol in the United States have been given license to, if they want, open up someone's phone and take a look and see if there's anything in there they don't like. and that has, I don't know what the decision was based on, but, you know, if you're just an average guy going across the border, do you really feel that it's appropriate for someone to just open up your personal devices and snoop around?

Well, I guess at the end of the day, that's their, you know, it's their country, it's their rules, it's their prerogative, and you've got to respect that. That's true, that's true. You know, whenever I've traveled internationally, You know, you encounter all kinds of unique situations. You've got to remember, you're on the home country's turf. You're playing by their rules. And I think as an outsider, as a traveler, as a guest, you have to respect those rules and abide by them.

If you do, you typically don't have any problem. You know what? I respect that. And that's a very fair commentary. Thank you very much, my friend. And look, I'll be honest, I've gone down to the States a couple of times. I actually find it easier to travel today than it has been in recent memory. I've got my nexus card, which I cherish, and especially if I'm traveling with carry-on

luggage, the speed with which you get through security and ultimately the border with the nexus card, there's no paper anymore. You literally stand in front of a camera, it takes your picture, and by the time you go see a border patrol guy, he may ask you a question, he may not, and he sends you on your way through. Now, that's been my personal experience. That is by no means an indicator that everybody has an easy time getting through, but that's just how I've seen it. Let's welcome Nathan into the conversation. Nathan, happy Thursday. Happy Thursday, Ben, love the show. Thank you. Happy that you're sticking with it and doing it. Please continue. Okay, so I, we have a cottage in

Michigan, family cottage. I'm in the States, not just for the cottage, but, you know, other things sometimes work or just going to catch a game somewhere, this or that or the other thing, I don't know, maybe six to 12 times a year. I've personally never had an issue with the American border guards. I think that they're polite, courteous and they just get the job done. I'll be honest, I answer their questions directly and I don't have a thing to hide because I'm an honest law-abiding citizen. You are going to get the odd snarky person in any job. It is not your right to go to the U.S. unless you're an American citizen, which I am not.

So it is not my right, my God-given right. It is not my, there are borders in this world, as much as the left doesn't want there to be. There are, and we have to respect that. I've never had an issue anywhere, to be honest. Now, let me ask a question. Since the tariffs came in, have you tried to bring goods across the border?

Into the U.S.? No, into Canada, from the U.S. Like, have you done grocery shopping? for example, because I hear that some people have gone down there to do grocery shopping when they come back. They're tariffed on what they bring back. Yeah, but that's always been the case. That's not just the tariffs. That's always been the case for as long as I can remember, the questions they ask are, hey, do you have a couple of kilos of Coke? They're looking, they're like, hey, did you guys buy any chicken? And by the way, when you come back into Canada, they give me a much

harder time. Do you have any chicken? Do you have any vegetables? Do you have any this? Do you have any that? I'm like, no, first of all, the grocery stores in the States, when you add the 30% sent onto it, they end up being more expensive. So it's kind of counterproductive. If you want cheap garbage food, it's less expensive there. Okay. But like, you know, the staple goods are more expensive. So, and you know what, I'll tell you what, if you go to Michigan, you can get a cottage for $140,000. You'll be 20 minutes from the Muscoca of Michigan. Otherwise, you got to go north of Sudbury and spend $800,000 to get a cabin in the backwoods. All right, Nathan, we're going to leave it there. Thank you, Mike. Thank you. Hey, I wanted to share a story. Back when I was in college,

I was driving. I told the story yesterday of buying my first car, and it was a red Ford Mustang with no air conditioning and no power windows and no power locks, no power anything. I think I had an AM FM radio and that was it, but I loved it because it was mine. Anyway, my best friend from college and I were driving across the border for the first time, and because it was the first time, we were stopped by the Americans. And it was a tale of two people. I got hauled into one room and she got hauled into another. Now, on my side, the guy saw my passport. And back then, I was still traveling on a diplomatic passport because my dad had just recently stopped being prime minister. So I still had the burgundy passport. And the guy looks at it and goes, so your dad was the

prime minister? He's like, yeah. He said, did you know Ronald Reagan? And I could tell he liked Ronald Reagan. So I really leaned into that. I said, it was a matter of fact. I did. I spent some time with him as well as with President Bush. And then he looked up at the wall and because it was into the Bill Clinton presidency, there was a picture of him on the wall. He goes, did you ever meet that guy? And I said, I haven't yet had the pleasure, sir. And we both chuckled and he sent me on my way.

Meanwhile, my friend, who is from North Carolina, was waiting for her interview. And I think they swapped the files between her and someone else in another room. And she got grilled. She got grilled like she was on her way to Guantanamo. At one point, the guy is asking her questions, and it's not lining up, her answers are not lining up

with what he's got in his file. and finally he just explodes on her and he says, what do you know about a piano in San Francisco? And she had no idea what he was talking about. She cried, she threw her ID at the guy, he realized he had it wrong and sent her on her way. She was traumatized. I was feeling like a million bucks,

a tale of two experiences at the border. Let's welcome Ben into the conversation. Ben, how are you? Good morning, Ben. I'm doing great. I love your backwards wearing baseball caps. Oh, not today, sir. I quaffed because I just got a haircut.

It's a lot easier to deal with when it's shorter. I envy your hair. I am a follicle challenged. So I always look at your hair and I go, that brat, you know what. Thank you. But I wanted to say I've had no zero issues crossing the border into the states. Everything is very fluid. I don't use Nexus, even though they seem to have gotten all my biometrics without my permission. The bigger problem is coming back into Pearson. For being the North America's most expensive airport fees, it is literally a third world experience. coming in from international. You don't think it's improved a little bit? I think, again, with the Nexus card. It feels like it's been streamlined.

And all those new automated kiosks, you're not simply waiting to be grilled by a person, but don't you think those machines take care of the heavy lifting? Yes, the process is fine, except again, for my biometrics and don't my permission. But the process has definitely speeded up, but there's hundreds, if not thousands of people in that low-ceiling room.

We're herded around with these chains. It's chaos in there People staring at their phones A million employees You go to the washrooms First thing you do Coming from the state You go to the washrooms

It's filled with pee And toilet paper on the floor This is repeated I travel a lot It's every time It's a disgusting Disgusting airport All right Ben

We're going to leave it there Thank you so much For sharing your perspective We've got time for a couple more Let's welcome John into the conversation John, thanks so much for calling in How's your travel to the U.S. been?

Fantastic I got no problem every time I go order I declare what I have a case of beer and a pair of jeans I say go ahead sir yeah

it's a way how you approach and talk to them you know Ben yeah no I try to be respectful I try to be respectful anybody with a uniform and a badge

I just assume that if I if I look at them the wrong way they are going to arrest me and I exactly and that my fear of authority has been

protecting me for a while yes sir but I notice if you have respect for people it brings long way in life. And I hope the people are listening will remember that. Okay. Thanks so much. I've got time for one more. Joanne, thank you so much for calling. You've got about 30 seconds.

Okay. No, I go to the States all the time for work. I have no issues. The only fun last week was my U.S. border officer told me he wasn't going to let me in because he asked me who I was going to be cheering for the rider cop. Yeah. You got to every now and then it takes you a back when they start playing with you, right? Because you don't expect it. You assume that they're going to be very, very serious. And when they play with you, you realize, oh, now I have to play. Now, I hope I play the right way.

Joanne, thank you so much. I appreciate. Thanks to everybody for calling it. All right, when we come back, Ontario, along with a number of provinces, has raised the minimum wage. Is it enough to keep up with inflation? Welcome back to the Ben Mulrini show. much for joining us. As you know, almost every story that we do on this show has some sort of element of financial consequence. You know, we're living in a time where money doesn't go as far as

it used to and what we have. We want to spend as optimally as possible. And so it's always important and it's always great to be joined by Eric Cam, economics professor at Toronto Metropolitan University to help us wade through some of these financial stories. Eric, welcome to the show. Good morning, Ben. Okay, so the data suggests that more and more people over the of 50 are looking to separate and divorce and chart a new course for themselves. And the dad is also suggesting that as that happens, the bank of mom and dad, which a lot of younger Canadians rely on, is taking a hit as well. Well, you know, Ben, there's a joke where people say, I can't afford to get divorced.

And there's a lot of truth to that. It's very expensive. And, of course, in challenging economic times, to take whatever well, you have, divided by two, pay off two different sets of lawyers, you kind of deplete what's in that bank account. So there's a lot of implications in Canada when you have these, what we call weaker intergenerational transfers, right? It reduces household wealth, reduces savings, reduces retirement savings. And so the parent's capacity to contribute to their adult children, whether that's paying down debt, paying down tuition debt, or buying, or by,

homes for our children becomes even harder. So when you couple that with, you know, the existing housing market pressures, it really does, in a sense, except for the lawyers, doesn't really benefit anybody. Yeah. Yeah. I find that really, really interesting. I would have thought that later on in life after that, equity's been built up. And they've, and, you know, both sides have been rowing in the same direction for a significant

amount of time that it may, that pressure may have lessened over time, but it's interesting to see that it's ever, ever present. Let me quickly say, having been through divorce once myself, what you just said, and I'm no psychologist, would make perfect sense if both parties in the divorce don't get so struck in that they realize that there's a bigger picture coming out at the end, but self-interest takes over, and then we get people that really go after every nickel and dime forgetting that there's another generation out there.

Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. Okay, explain this to me because, you know, back in the day, Donald Trump, he loved pointing to the stock market as proof that the American economy was roaring. And it is certainly a metric and an indicator, but it doesn't tell the full picture. So when I see a story that says that the Toronto Stock Exchange closed at a record high, and I try to sort of reconcile that with the negative stories that we talk, we share about Canada's economic outlook, I try to, I'm trying to square that circle. So make that make sense for our listeners. You know what, you're right. It's a really interesting phenomenon. How can one thing go up and one thing go down?

And what I would ask listeners to remember is that the stock market isn't the entire economy. It's just a piece of the economy. And in Canada, and let's just say Toronto right now, and the TSX is dominated by energy and mining and financial sectors that are very tied, very correlated to global commodity cycles. and capital flows rather than just domestic consumers. So it's more of an indicator of sort of one aspect of the global economy than the entirety of the domestic economy. Right. So strong oil, gold, even base metal prices, they can push that index higher and higher,

even if in a macro picture Canada's GDP is weak, which we know ours is right now. Please ignore the rhetoric you see about people saying, but our GDP is strong. It is not strong. Also, really quickly, the stock market's always been a really convenient hedge against inflation.

And so resource companies see rising revenues and profits as attracting foreign investment into the TSX, and that has nothing to do, Ben, with how the Canadian economy is doing as a whole. Gotcha.

Now, what about the American stock market because the S&P closed at a high, but the American government is shut down? I would think that anything like that would, anything like a government shutdown in the United States would cause uncertainty to creep into the market. And it will. But the United States isn't Canada. It's a very, very big open economy.

And the lag and lead times for these things take much longer. So if this thing dragged on for a very long time, which spoiler alert, it won't, you would see it eventually reflect in that. But this happens every now and then with the debt ceiling. Heck, they even wrote it into the West Wing one. So you're going to see that this doesn't last very long, and I'd be shocked to see a stock market, which is a very forward-looking device. And you're right, it does reflect investor competence,

but this isn't going to probably last long enough to affect the American stock market. Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, well, let's spend the rest of our time talking about the minimum wage. A few years ago, it was given a significant bump, And now it seems more or less everyone is, is on board with recognizing that it's important to pay. I mean, some will call it a fair wage. Some will call it livable wage.

Others will say you cannot live on it. But the federal minimum wage is at $17.75 an hour. And it changes and moves around the country. I think it's at its highest in Canada's north, which makes a lot of sense because everything is so much more expensive up there. on September 1st, Nunavut, for example, went up to almost $20 an hour, 1975. And so explain to me the rationale behind ratcheting it up.

Is the goal to have it keep up with inflation? Well, in theory, yes. But raising the minimum wage is actually a very dangerous game right now. And we could talk about this all day, but let's keep it simple. Purchasing power, or if you can call it, you know, spending power, it's a fraction. It's your wages, your nominal wages, divided by the prices of the things you buy. And especially when an economy is not doing well like ours, it may look good on the surface to take that numerator, those wages, and raise them. But here's the problem.

Number one, that can cause what's called a wage price spiral. so raising wages may make companies raise their prices and then there goes there goes the purchasing power effect in fact it may even go then it might even go negative if the denominator goes higher than the numerator yeah wasn't there a story in california a few maybe it was like a year ago where they raised the minimum wage and the knock-on effect was a whole bunch of fast food joints just closing up shop completely well that's right and that's you know again i don't to be a Debbie Downing here, but let me tell you, if you cheer for a higher minimum wage, then you better also remember, please, that the law of demand is downward sloping. And

when wages go up, the quantity demanded of labor goes down. And so you cannot, then, you cannot sit there with a placard at City Hall and say raise the minimum wage without knowing that's going to decrease the demand for labor. So if you're one of the people that gets a higher wage, congratulations. But if you're one of the people that loses their job, job because that job doesn't exist anymore. Congratulations, you've just screwed yourself. Well, I think it's also important to note. And by the way, I'm in full support of a minimum wage being whatever the market can bear and whatever's fair. And I've got no problem with that. But, you know, some people need to remember that if they are in support of an ever-increasing

minimum wage, then they also have to recognize that that plays into the hollowing out of our manufacturing sector because people want their goods to be as dirt cheap as possible. And where do we get those from, again, from Vietnam, we get from China, again from places like that, because they do not pay a minimum wage anywhere close to what we pay. Ben, you're right. You just said it better than me. Every action has a reaction. And so, again, if you want to raise wages, you have to know that there's going to be negative ramifications of that. In the exact same way, Ben, you can take rent control and you can push the hell out of it, but you can kick to buy the number of rental units. Right. Oh, well, listen,

I wish when I had my first job, I had a minimum wage that was as high as it is today. And look, I hope that everybody who works and gets up every morning and puts, you know, 100% into their job earns enough to feel valued and valuable. I don't know that that's necessarily the case yet, but hopefully we'll get to a place where that is the case. Eric Cam, as always, thank you so much, my friend. Stay healthy, Benedict. All right, the heat is on for some of the world's best known comedians. A lot of them are on their way to the Riyadh comedy festival in Saudi Arabia,

how they're defending taking that money to perform in an exceptionally repressive regime. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Yesterday, we opened up a conversation about the Riyadh, Comedy Festival. which is Saudi Arabia's new comedy festival. It's being touted as the biggest in the world as somebody who worked at Just for laughs in Montreal for three summers. I can tell you I have great appreciation, great affinity, great respect for stand-ups, not only for just the humor and the talent,

but I think for the value that they provide in social commentary and allowing us to navigate really, really tricky conversations. It's the most successful and the most skilled make it look really easy. The ones who have a deft touch are able to do things and talk about topics that others might shy away from. And now we're living in a world where that value is being tested against the almighty dollar because the Riyadh festival is throwing boat loads of money at some of the most successful standups in the world to go over to, to re-ad and entertain the crowds. And some of them are, some of these guys are explaining

and expressing their perspective on why it makes sense for them. Let's listen. This first one's Pete Davidson, right? Yeah, let's listen to Pete Davidson, who is going to this festival. You know, I've been getting a little bit of a flack just because, like, my dad died 9-11,

so they're like, how could you possibly go there? I just, you know, I get the routing and then I see the number, and I go, I'll go. Yeah, Pete Davidson isn't necessarily known as a social commentary kind of guy. No. He talks about his girlfriend. He talks about his girlfriend.

And he talks about Ariana Grande. He talks about Kim Kardashian. If he's comfortable going, like I guess he's got to ask himself, what would my dad say? And his dad would probably say, go get the money, man. Well, we know that, what was it, $370,000 is the low end? Yeah, that's the low. $1.6 million at least on the high? Then you got a guy like Shane Gillis,

who if you don't remember, he's sort of a, he does one of the great, the great Trump impressions in the world. He's sort of the alpha male kind of guy. He's the beer drinking guy. He has one of the funniest shows

I've seen in years on Netflix called Tires, where he plays a tire salesman. And it's, he is decidedly, he is politically incorrect. His YouTube videos that he did before, like after he got cut from Saturday Night Live or like he was hired for a day

but they're unbelievable He's very very funny He's either your cup of tea or he's not He is my cup of tea But here's him talking about turning down Saudi money I should have taken the I gotta take the Saudi Arabia deal I should have taken it

I'm washed I do get the fact that they Perpetrated 9-11 I'm not doing it That is good I admire that Then they doubled the bag And I was like

They doubled the bag the princes? It was a significant bag. What? But I'd already said no. You know, I took a principled stand. The principled stand. And you know when he says that, he always says that with a smile on his says. I love Shane Gillis. I really, really do. Now, here's another comic named Stavros Halkius, making fun of another comedian, Mark Norman. And you may not know Mark Norman. I know he's a very funny guy. Mark Norman's going. Stavros is not. Here's Stavro's commenting on Mark Norman. I figured the seventh would have been in 14, so I'm doing the 8th.

Jesus, it dates place on October 7th. You guys are in Riyadh on October 7th. I realize that. I'm on the 8th. I'm there on the 8th. What's going on on the 7th? You're going to be doing remembrance posts of Saudi Arabia? Yeah. And look, one... There's some irony there. Yeah, but let's not forget. Yeah. Not the other guy on there is Samaril. We are on the eve, in the next few days, we're remembering the seventh anniversary of the murder and dismemberment of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who was killed by Saudi representatives of the Saudi government on American soil. This is happening with that as the backdrop, right? And a lot of these guys who go over there have made it their stock and trade.

They have made a career out of being that voice that is unafraid. to speak truth to power in the United States. So they have no problem. And they've been hailed for their bravery for saying things that others wouldn't say. But then you're like, how brave is it if you say something in the comfort of America where nothing's going to happen to you?

And a lot of people think something's going to happen. Donald Trump's going to come for you. You know, okay, maybe. But is he going to come for you the way that the Saudis came for Jamal Khashoggi? Me thinks not. And so with that as a backdrop, yourself, how brave are these people really?

And when you see them that way, can you unring that bell? Can they come home and be that brave truth teller again? I don't know if they can. They can certainly try. It is their right to try. But it's also the right of those who buy tickets to just not buy it anymore. Well, Whitney Cummings, who we had on just a couple of weeks ago, you had a conversation with her about how she comes up with us.

And she said, it has to be fresh every week because everybody is the same takes on things, you have to be able to freshen up and come up with new bits. Yeah. And it has to be timely. Yeah. So I don't know what she's going to do over there because she's going as well. Whitney Cummings is? I believe so, yeah.

I didn't know that. I didn't think she was. I said yesterday I suspected she wasn't because our guest yesterday, Mark Breslin, the founder of Yuck Yuck, said they had hired three women and all three of them wear pantsuits. And I don't see Whitney Cummings is a pantsuit kind of woman, but I could be wrong. So it's being, it's being hailed. is the biggest comedy festival in the world from the 26th of September

to the 9th of October so it's already happening she is going interesting I had no idea so the lineup includes Dave Chappelle Louis CK Bill Burke Kevin Hart Whitney Cummings

Pete Davidson Aziz Ansari Joe Coy among others these are the biggest names in comedy this is a murderer's row of comedians and they are not allowed

talking about the royal family they can't make jokes about religion I have to wonder whether The spill-on effect is you can't make fun of sort of certain laws. What about women driving? What about women driving? What about women driving? What about women? What about burkas?

What about, you know, what about, is it a joke about religion? If you talk about the fashion associated with religion, I don't know. It's basically, what's your price? What, yeah, what is your price? What's your price to shut up? Like, shut up and tell some jokes. And then, and then if you come home and say, oh, here are all the jokes I didn't get to tell there.

while I was there. Does that make you brave? And by the way, I don't fault anyone for getting paid. And we were trying to compare this to the live golf tournament, right? That was funded by the Saudi government and eventually got folded into the PGA. I see those things as very different. You can be a golfer who sits there, shuts up, and swings a club. It is not what you say and what you think and how you say it is not vital to your identity. It's not vital to how you make your money. And they spent billions. Billions to be able to establish that golf league. I do not view those two things as analogous. And I just don't look. Kevin Hart doesn't tell political jokes. He'll be fine. But Bill Burr. Bill Burr. How is he going to do it? Bill Burr has been exceptionally critical of a

number of American politicians on a number of things that if if you if you as a as a moral person take issue with Donald Trump how can you not take issue with with with with with with the with the with the royal family of of Saudi yeah and is it just a question of like if Donald Trump gave you a big enough paycheck would you would you would you would you would you show up and and and and and tell jokes that make him laugh by the way bill burr has been to Saudi Arabia before. Let's listen to how he views his time in Saudi Arabia. So I go up on stage, I start doing my shit, and they're fucking into it. Everything's going good. And I'm not going to lie to you. I'm checking out the diplomats as I'm doing this stuff,

and they're all laughing. All right, so I'm going to push a little farther. All of a sudden, I start getting in the zone. Well, Billy's feeling loose up there, and my brain just goes, gay gym. And then the other part of my brain goes, don't do that. And then I said, I'm going to do it. So I started doing the joke, and it's murdered. And at that point, I was just like, ah, I'm just doing my act. So I did my act. And I had to stop a couple of times during the show. I was going like, I mean, always you guys, I cannot believe any you have any idea who I am.

It was a mind-blowing experience. Definitely top three experiences I've ever had. Look, doing one show, one comedian going to Saudi Arabia and doing a show is not what this is. This is a concerted effort by the Saudi government to bring in the biggest comedians in the world to whitewash, I think, their reputation. And when Bill Burr says, first of all, do you catch that? He was trying to show how brave he was by talking about a gay gym. I don't know if that's going to fly if you're there as part of the Riyadh comedy festival.

I don't. You may be right. You may come home and nobody may care. But I think that there is a conversation that needs to continue over your obligation as somebody who's made a career on telling it as it is. Canada's oil sands produce the energy the world needs, but it's the benefits that flow to all parts of our country, like hundreds of thousands of jobs in oil and gas and along the supply chain, and revenue to invest in roads, bridges, our national defense, and more.

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