The Ben Mulroney Show - Israel condemned for attack on Hamas/The Wednesday political panel

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

- ANDY GIBBONS Former Vice President of WestJet, Consultant - Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty   If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's be honest, we've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane, and hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody. who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment.

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Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulrooney. That's better, help.com slash Mulrooney. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank. You didn't even check your pay stuff.

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What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the backseat. The whole way? The whole way. Welcome to the Ben Muleruny show. Thank you so much for joining us on Wednesday, September 10th.

I am doing my show from C.J.O.B., the beautiful offices of C.J.O.B. here in the city of Winnipeg, Manitoba. It's a gorgeous day. Another gorgeous day here later this evening. I will be at the Canadian Museum of Human Rights for the 150th anniversary gala of Canada's oldest independent human rights organization Bidabirth Canada, where I will be in conversation with Prime Minister Stephen Harper. You can expect to hear more about that

conversation tomorrow. And I promised you that I would give you my food review of what I thought, what I remembered to be one of the best pizzas I had ever had 10 years ago from a restaurant called Pizzeria Gusto. I went last night, and I can promise you that the memory meets, met the moment. It was as good as I remembered it. It is easily one of the top five pizzas I've ever been served in a restaurant in my life. I do not pretend to be an expert in pizza, but one man's opinion, if you are in Winnipeg and you want great pizza, Pizzeria Gusto. And I paid for my pizza, by the way. So that's that another great day on tap for us.

Look, I think a lot of us were holding our breath yesterday when we heard the news that Poland had their airspace violated 19 times by a drone invasion by Russia. The first violation took place at 11.30 p.m., the last one at 6.30 a.m. and the prime minister, Donald Tusk, of Poland, warned that this was the closest they've been to war since World War II. We just heard in the news that Russia has sort of offered, I guess, whatever version of a Mea-culpa Russia is capable of by saying that the drones that they sent into Poland, they were trying to send into Ukraine. I don't know that that makes it better because their drones have no business in Ukraine because they have no, they have no business in Ukraine. But at the very least, it was an explanation. But for a while, we wondered if this was going to trigger Canada's commitment to NATO. An attack on one is an attack on all.

Poland and the Netherlands used F-35s and F-16s as well as Black Hawk helicopters to shoot down the Russian suicide drones. And we heard that the prime minister announced that Poland had invoked NATO's Article 4, which is the duty to consult with their fellow. NATO members. So yeah, this could have been a big deal. And it's nice to see that at least on that front, we've got a little less to worry about. I think we should, we got to talk about Greta Tunberg because overnight, you know, she and her flotilla friends who are sitting on their boat in what Tunisia claimed and went all over social media that they had been hit by drones, hit by drones that they believed have been sent, maybe to kill them from Israel.

And all of them cosplaying as Palestinians with their kaffirs all over social media. Oh, Israel is coming to kill us. They've come to kill us. Well, here's the thing. The Tunisian Interior Minister said that there were no drones detected when Tunberg's global Sumud Flotilla claimed it had been hit by one on Monday. starting a fire on the boat that was off the Tunisian port of Citi Boussade. The ministry maintained that the groups claim that a drone attack started the fire, had no basis in truth,

and that it was likely started on board possibly from an activist or an activist or a cigarette. There is video that suggests that somebody set off a firecracker or possibly a flare. But when you are so self-righteous and when you are so self-centered that you believe that Israel is going to send a drone into the airspace of a country with whom they have no quarrel at all and is going to bomb you and your two-bit group of flunkies and to do what, Greta, to do what, to silence you because you're such a big part of this? No, you're literally, you are physically and literally trying to inject yourself into a conflict that does not concern you. You, okay, everyone always tells me to stick to my lane. And I would urge Greta to maybe, maybe listen to those complaints as well. This is not your thing, Greta. It's not your thing.

But when you are so obsessed with being the center of the story and you think that you, and a bunch of your friends on a boat in Tunis are somehow going to be the focal point of the military of Israel when they are wrapped up in a war for their very existence. It says more about you than it does about Israel. So there you go. And also it does say this, when it's clear that somebody on your own boat started the fire, the fact that you would maintain the BS lie that it was Israel, it speaks to how willing and how eager you are. to propagate irresponsible lies about the Jews around the world. I mean, when, you know, it's so easy to talk about the Jewish space laser. Maybe it was the Jewish space lasers, Greta.

Maybe that's what it was, right? When it's so easy to make the Jews and Israel the boogeyman that even in the face of your own incompetence by somebody on your own boat, let's just feed the world another lie about Israel because that's the responsible thing to do. do. One thing that Israel is responsible for because the prime minister took credit for it was the attack on Qatar. So they went into Qatar and they bombed what they believed to be where the leadership of Hamas has been housed forever, including the most recent leader of Hamas, the guy who used to get on TV and say we're going to do October 7th over and over and over again until we kill all the Jews. Yeah, he's dead. And the backlash against Israel is unsurprising.

Our prime minister said Canada condemns Israel strikes on Qatar, an intolerable expansion of violence and an affront to Qatar's sovereignty. Here are a couple of things. Qatar is not an honest broker in this fight. They are not an independent third party. They sided with Hamas and endorsed its takeover of Gaza in 2007. Doha, the capital, has provided political and financial assistance to Hamas, pumping an estimated $1.8 billion into that government. Hamas also maintains a political office in Doha, and the leadership has been allowed to live unfettered and free and in relative safety and certainly in riches, riches that they have not siphoned back to the people of the Palestinian people of that region that expected it and demand it. Qatar held that Israel alone was responsible for October 7th.

They're they're to blame. They are to blame, but these are the people who are the honest brokers who are going to bring peace to the region. These are the people. Look, you can't solve a problem if you don't look at the problem honestly. Qatar is a bad actor in the region. Full stop. And so when they come out and call Israel the enemy here, they were calling them the enemy on October 7th. Nothing has changed.

The one thing that has changed is there are fewer Hamas terrorists. terrorists in Qatar. And to me, that's a net positive. But I want to go back to what our prime ministers talked about about how this is an intolerable expansion of violence. It seems to me every time Israel takes proactive action to defend itself, whether it was against the Houthis, whether it was against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, whether it was against the nuclear threat in Iran, leaders of the Western world rush to decry this needless escalation. You'll remember after the strike on Iran last month, the Secretary General of the UN condemned the military escalation in the Middle East, particularly concerned

with Israel's attacks on the nuclear installation. Erdogan, the Turkish president, referred to the attacks of Netanyahu and his massacre network, which are setting our entire region and the world on fire must be prevented. And Kyr Starmor, everybody's favorite, useful idiot said stability in the Middle East must be the priority and we are engaging partners to de-escalate. Have we witnessed an escalation since they went into Iran? No. Have we witnessed an escalation from the Houthis?

No. Have we witnessed an escalation since they killed every member of Hezbollah with those beepers? No. Is this going to be another escalation? Methinks probably not. But that's, I mean, what do I know? I'm just a game show host. All right.

When we come back, Canada's best tennis players will hit the course. courts in Halifax this weekend with zero fans in the stands. What is going on? We will answer that question and many more. Next on the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And don't forget, you can find our podcast on all podcast platforms. We're also streaming on the IHeart Radio app.

And we are a YouTube as well. Right now, I'm not on YouTube because I'm at the lovely C.J.O.B. Studios here in Winnipeg, Manitoba. But in short order, I'll be back in Toronto and you can either stare at my ugly mug or pretend it's not there. But always on YouTube, thank you very much. We appreciate you for joining us and for helping us build the Ben Mulroney Show. All right, when we heard that Israel would be participating in the Davis Cup matches that would be taking place in Canada, specifically in Halifax, you would have to be as you would have to be exceptionally obtuse to not know what was going to come next right how dare how dare Israel because they're a genocidal colonialist apartheid nation war mongering the you know blah blah blah blah blah how dare they how dare they and how dare Canada allow them to come in well we seem to have reached a resolution to this quagmire that will satisfy no one one. The Davis Cup tie between Canada and Israel and Halifax will be played without fans or media due to the, quote, escalating safety concerns following consultations with ITF and security

agencies. So over 400 Canadian athletes and academics urged Tennis Canada to cancel the match over Israel's actions. There's a financial impact because don't forget, 1,500 tickets per match had to be refunded. That's money that was going to go to Tennis Canada. That's the money that was going to go to the next generation of tennis stars to help develop them. The next Victorian Boko, the next Felix Oje Aliassim. Yeah, that money's gone. That money's gone.

Halifax police will be on site. They declined to share their operational details. The Center for Israel and Jewish Affairs condemn the closure as a result of hate and intimidation. Of course, you know, if you're the biggest bully on the block, you get what you want, right? That's why the Pride Parade in Toronto was canceled. That's why for a moment, that documentary about the former member of the IDF went to save his family on October 7th. That's why that got canceled and then reinstated because a little bit of sanity was restored to the world. And that's why this happened.

When you've got the numbers and you're angry enough and you're you're angry enough and you're. and you make it about you, then this is what happens. The wider context is the event follows similar controversies in international sport with other groups calling for Israel's suspensions. The Canada-Israel tie will still be broadcast with the winner advancing to the 2026 qualifier, but not for nothing. Canada should have been able to enjoy a, I don't know, a home field, a home court advantage here. That's not going to happen because they're going to be playing as if we were in the pandemic again, right?

I hope they all wear masks. And look, feels to me like Israel is being treated as Russia was following their invasion, their first invasion of Ukraine, where they were denied access to the Olympics, right? Except Israel didn't start this war. There are still hostages, some alive, some not, being treated worse than anyone could, possibly be treated by other human beings underneath and in the tunnels that Hamas has built underneath Gaza. And yet, despite that, we're treating them like an international global pariah.

Is it fair? Absolutely not. Does it make sense, given the insanity that we've been living for two years? Sure. And it's not the only sport that's dealing with this sort of nonsense. Israel's national soccer team played in Italy, and there were, of course, some protests in the stands. And with the expanded format going from 32 to 48 teams at the FIFA World Cup, it is possible that Israel could qualify for the tournament in either the United States, Canada, or Mexico next June.

So that should be a lot of fun. That should be a lot of fun. Toronto needs to play. We don't know who's going to play where yet, but. If Israel performs well at this level, they could end up gaining access to the World Cup. And you know what? One of those early matches could happen in either Vancouver or Toronto. What the hell is going to happen?

I know what's going to happen. The protesters are going to descend. And then our mayor is going to have to decide what she's going to do. That's going to be tricky for the mayor of Toronto, who has thus far shown an inability or an unwillingness to treat the people who have taken over our city. do whatever they want any time they want with anything but kid gloves or complete blissful ignorance and when they come if they come in toronto and decide that they want to lay siege to bemo field where these matches are going to take place what's she going to do what's she going

to do is she going to tell them to take their toys and go home i don't know she hasn't done anything resembling that for nearly two years so that will be a real test of what her values are and how she actually sees the world. Because in that case, millions, if not billions of dollars are at stake. The international reputation of the city will be at stake. All eyes will in fact be on Toronto. And how she behaves in that moment may require her to behave in a completely different way than she has been comfortable behaving for the past two years. So I don't know. Mike Drolle, how do you see things? Well, I think it's going to be interesting exactly where, if Israel qualifies, and again, they might because of the expanded tournament,

it's going to be very interesting to the reaction, depending on where they play. If they play in Canada, you know that the protesters are going to basically be allowed to do whatever they want, within reason, I suppose, and there could be some problems. But if they end up playing in the United States or even Mexico, well, especially in the United States. They're going to end up in jail. Well, the protesters, we've seen what's happened. Trump has come down with a heavy hand with a lot of the protests. at the at schools so if these guys show up at one of these massive stadiums and disrupt things uh i

it's going to be a much different world for those protesters than it would be if they were uh if the game was here in canada yeah but you know listen we've seen it before even the most progressive mayors when the world descends on their city like like um for an olympics it doesn't matter how progressive you are if you're hosting the olympics you're picking up every homeless person. You're sticking them in the back of a van and you're taking them elsewhere so that the city presents as much as beautifully as possible. It's the great hypocrisy of the progressive left that when money is involved for your city and when the when public scrutiny, international public scrutiny is involved, you're going to do what you need to do to make the city look as good

as possible. That's an interesting point because and what do you think Chow is going to do? She's not exactly going to put them in buses and send them up to Barry. We know Alex Nuddle is not going to appreciate that or approve of that. So she can, I mean, because she has shown very much a support for, you know, people on the street. She hasn't done anything to clean it up. It's support through her inaction and her silence. Like, she's never come out and endorsed that side. I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to say something she didn't do. But as somebody once said, a mayor can't be everywhere, but a mayor has to be somewhere. And she has chosen through her action and inaction to never be where the Jews need her to be. And so in this case, if we get to this point, it's a very big if, if we get to the point where Israel gets a birth into the World Cup, and if that birth leads them to a match in Toronto, this will be the ultimate test for her, because she has been talking about how important the FIFA World Cup is to Toronto, but she's also demonstrated in her values that she wants these demonstrators to do and say what they want when they want to say it. You know she's crossing her fingers. She is hoping, hoping, hoping, please, no Israel, no Israel, no Israel. This is a situation.

What is it? What's the expression? What happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object? Those two things will be happening in the mind and the soul of our mayor. Because she will have to make a decision. And it may be completely contrary to how she's behaved for years. And I don't envy her that, but this is a position she's put herself in. What a collision that would be.

Yeah. Yeah, in that moment, we'll see exactly what she's made of. But regardless, if Israel makes the World Cup, we know the script. The script is easy to follow. It's already been written, and we've seen the dress rehearsals many, many times before. You're absolutely right. The reaction in the United States will be completely different than what it would be in Canada. If I'm being completely honest, I prefer the American reaction.

I do think there should be consequences. When you break the law, I don't care what the law is and I don't care how angry you are. The law is the law, and you do not get to mitigate your infraction because you're angry. And so we're going to leave it there, but of course it's something we will follow. It's a really interesting thought exercise to see what Olivia Chow would do. All right, the idea behind bubble zones is to protect targeted groups from intimidation and attack. Should drag queen's story time be in or out of the bubble? That's next on the Bedmolrini show.

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based on over 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient, and you can switch counselors at any time for no cost. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulruni. That's BetterHELP.com slash Mulruni. Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision.

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sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's tax extra. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Very pleased to kick off our midweek, this week in politics panel. Oh, no, that's not happening now. Is it happening now? Oh, yes, it is happening now.

Gosh, I was at the wrong part of my document. Yes, very pleased to be joined by former vice president of WestJet and now a very effective consultant, Andy Gibbons, as well as great friend of the show, great friend of mine, Regan Watts, founder of Fratton Park, Inc., as well as former senior aide to Jim Flaherty. Guys, welcome to the show. Thanks, Tom. So, Andy, we're going to be joined by Regan in just a moment, but I want to start out. We're going to do things a little bit differently. I've got, there are a couple of topics I want to explore,

and I don't know where they're going to go, right? And this first one was a coming together, a meeting of the minds by Nigel Farage, the leader of the Reform Party in the UK, which is currently atop the polls in that country. And at a recent coming together of that party, they invited their guests of honor, was the founder of the Canadian Reform Party, Preston Manning. And Nigel Farage sang the praises of him saying he is emulating him. He's building his party the way Preston Manning did so in the late 80s, early 90s here in Canada.

And I think it speaks to, you know, what what does a what does a what does a country need from a political party in other words i've been i have been told many times by critics when they come at me on on twitter they will say oh ben the the conservative party today nothing like the progressive conservative party of your father to which i say a number of things and we got real regan welcome to the show welcome into the conversation we're talking about the reform party in the uk and what what that means for a country and the political parties that are born within. And, you know, my thought, and this is just a thought, I'll ask you guys what your thoughts are,

is circumstances dictate the values of a party. And the country that we are in today probably requires this current incarnation of the conservative party more than the progressive conservative party of my father. Just as people are gravitating away from their traditional home in the conservative party in the UK for the more hardline reform party because that's what circumstances are dictating. And I wonder what your thoughts are on that. We'll start with you, Andy. Well, I think first of all, what's going on in the UK is like an earthquake, tsunami,

and avalanche at the same time politically. And I don't know if everyone's fully clued in what's happening there. It's kind of remarkable and historic. I think you're right. The circumstances do dictate. and the criticisms of the Conservative Party today, which you fight off all the time on Twitter, as you say, are basically unfounded by basic fact.

I mean, the party as a broad coalition, it's a diverse party that's got urban and rural and representation from all parts of the country. So the only difference here with Manning going over to England for this is, you know, the Reform Party was initially a regional grievance movement that moved on to become a national party. eventually formed the modern conservative party and formed a governing coalition under prime minister harper so um you know the circumstances in the u.k are not that different than any other western

country right now but they seem to be really coming to a head yeah and uh reagan you know my my thoughts on this and i'm not married to this this opinion uh but my my thoughts today on this or if you believe that what's happening in the UK is could be viewed as a precursor to what could happen in Canada, then those people who are already, already view anyone to the right of the liberal party as a fascist party. If left to their own devices, if this liberal government doesn't change course from the policies of the previous Trudeau government, and I do suspect they will change to a large extent. But if they continue down that path, then the people on the left better buckle up because what's going to happen to the conservative party is it will

drift farther to the right? So, Ben, there's a couple things that I think are worth mentioning for your listeners this morning. I'll be up front. I actually quite like Nigel Farage. I think he is the kind of politician who gets people talking and engaged in public issues, and I think we need more of them. The United Kingdom, though, in the circumstances that are happening there, and Andy talked

about an earthquake, and he is right, it is an earthquake. There has been a number of local issues there. I won't go over them in great detail, but there's been a number of. number of issues that have led to a public dialogue in that country that has talked about the changing of Britain. And I am the son of an English immigrant, and Andy's the son of a Scottish immigrant. And the United Kingdom that Andy's father and my father grew up in is not the United Kingdom of today. And that has led to a real drive for the Reform Party in that country to garner public support on the back of a number of policy issues.

but also political stances. With respect to Preston Manning, you know, Mr. Manning, as Danny said, he started the Reform Party, the Grievance Party, and it wasn't for Stephen Harper. We'd still have that party of grievance, and the Conservatives would never win power. So, you know, lots of people have respect for Mr. Manning.

God bless him. I think what he did to destroy the conservative movement is unconscionable and should never be forgotten. Having said that, in this country, we are starting to see the early stage, of that public mood that I mentioned in the UK, where, you know, the Canada today is not the Canada been that you and Andy and I grew up in in the 1980s

and the 1990s. We haven't had extreme events to the same degree, like in the UK, they have those grooming gangs that some folks may have heard of. We haven't had an event quite like that yet, but you're starting to see, for example, temporary foreign workers seep into public consciousness where people are starting to wonder what happened to the country.

What that means for me, for conservative parties, is actually, Ben, I don't agree that the party of your father isn't needed today. I think your father, your father, while he was a progressive conservative, actually, a leader actually had a number of conservative policies that would fit in just sign under Mr. Polyeb or Mr. Harper or any other conservative leader for that matter. I think what conservative in particular need is a leader who is credible, who can communicate in a way that brings folks from the middle over to the conservative column,

because I think there is a general consensus in Canada on a, you know, 60, 65% of the issues, maybe even 70% of the issues. The mushy middle in Canada, in the United Kingdom and the United States is where elections are won and lost. And so for conservatives, it's not about going further right. You can stand on conservative principles, and Mr. Paulia approved that in the last election with winning a historic number of votes. What it comes down to is having a leader who can move the country to rally behind those

principles. Mr. Carney has already made changes to the previous liberal government's policies, the carbon tax elimination for consumers was among the first things he did, if not the first thing he did. But there's been a number of other changes. And so that, you know, but that is a move for that party to the center. As you're that used to say, you govern from the center and you campaign, you can't be in the center and you govern for the right. Regan, he's made some very big moves. But a lot of them have been economic moves, right? I think, I think what is what is critical to this discussion that we're having are the ones

that affect us socially, the issues of crime, the issues. of social cohesion, the immigration, integration, all of those that seem to be, the previous liberal government dealt with so cavalierly that anyone to suggest, and back, don't forget, anyone who took issue with those policies, we were, we were, we were tired and feathered xenophobes. And that is, that is changing. And I think if this government wants to stem the tied of anything that they would view as rising right-wing discontent, they have to address those social issues. Andy, I'm going to give you the last word on this. Yeah, and if you remember, before Trump 2.0 came along, Ben, 70%, 70% of Canadians agreed with

the basic statement, is Canada broken, right? So I think that opinion is there. It may be latent a little bit. And I'm with you on crime and immigration. I struggle to understand why the liberals have been asleep on those two issues for so long, and I don't know why they stigmatized people who disagreed with their policy. So for me, the left in the Western world, but also kind of have really overplayed their hand, and the realities of the situation are too stark, and just look at the work that Pierre Pahliav and his immigration critic, Michelle Rempel-Garner, are doing on temporary foreign workers.

The establishment class hated. I mean, they hate every word they say on the issue, but they feel pretty strongly. that's where people are. And they're tired of being called racist for disagreeing. And I think mainstream Canadians probably are too. All right. Well, we're going to take a quick break.

But on the other side, right here on the Ben Mulrneesh, we're going to continue with our This Week in Politics panel. And Regan, the first word is going to be to you. Bubble zones around synagogues, around places of faith. It was a long, hard slog to get to a place where they became a reality. Is the next step bubble zones for the LGBT community to extend them around libraries for drag queen's story time. coming up next on the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and welcome back to Andy Gibbons and Regan

Watts as part of our This Week in Politics midweek panel. Regan, I want to start with you because the current state of public discourse in Canada is so, it's in the gutter. And so the fact that we were able to, in a great many cities across this country, come to an understanding, a consensus that the, you know, our, our, our, our, our, our Our charter right to practice any religion or no religion at all, to express our religious beliefs, to act on those beliefs, that is so fundamental we were able to come to an understanding around bubble zones, right? Whether it be a synagogue or a church or a mosque, that we kind of got over that hump and we're now in a place more or less. We're in a lot of big cities.

People can get back to going to their church, going to their mosque, going to their synagogue, and practicing their faith that is. essential to their identity. And what does it say, then, that there is now a push by certain members of the LGBTQ community to extend that right to drag queen's story time at libraries? Well, this is a loaded issue, but I'm going to give it a shot. First off, every time you mention synagogues of the Jewish community, I would be remiss if I did not mention that it has been more than 700 days since those folks were taken first. from their families and are still held as hostages and they must come home now.

Secondly, I think about my friend Peter who lives around the corner with respect to children and LGBTQ issues and other things. And when I think about Big Peter and we would talk about these issues, I'm not sure that he or I believe that there should be story time for young children when it comes to the drag queen community. I mean, there's absolutely no similarity whatsoever. There's not a then diagram anywhere that you can equate drag queens and synagogues and faith. You know, lifestyle choices like dressing up, and that is perfectly their right to do so.

Those are not the same as houses of faith. And I, and we miss, I don't believe that there was anything in the tablets or Moses in the Old Testament, the New Testament, or the Quran, around. drag queens practicing faith is much much different and the exposure of children in my view to that type of content particularly in public libraries i'm not sure a serves the public good and b i'm not sure it's appropriate and and i think that one you know we're not comparing apples to apples here they are completely different things that is not to say that drag queens cannot have their place in society they they're certainly absolutely can and entitled to but you know when i think about my friend, Big Peter and Leaside, it's not in front of kids at the local Leaside library

where they can read about, you know, Curious George, either the monkey or another storytime book. Yeah, Andy, look, some people may not like my perspective on this, but I'm of the opinion. If you don't want to see Drag Queen Storytime, don't go to Drag Queen Storytime. I'm not somebody who would prohibit that in any way. It doesn't rise to the level of me actually giving too much of a, it's not a big issue for me. However, equating it with somebody's right to practice their religion, something that is intrinsic to their community, to their identity, to their traditions, that to me smacks of insulting the religion itself. Like, one is not the other. You do not have to go to storytime.

It is not incumbent upon you because of your faith, right? And so, and if you want to go to story time and you know there's going to be a drag queen there and you want to bring your kids, hey, you parent your kid any way you want. but one is not the other, and trying to draft off of the hard work that was done to protect people in their places of worship, to me, is a little insulting. This made me think of the debate around bubble zones around abortion clinics. You know, there never used to be bubble zones, and pro-life people would be on the sidewalk, and they would have things to say about women and families walking into those clinics, and now they're across the street. And I don't know that the pro-life voices are any diminished by that. But I think in hindsight, it feels like that's a reasonable layer of protection. I know that many will not agree with that.

But so I think the concept of bubble zones and what the minister said around intentionally obstructing, you know, my Jewish friends have had an RC&P car outside their synagogue forever, not just since October 7th, forever, their entire childhood and their entire life. Yeah. They've lived with that threat daily, not just. recently. So I have a hard time with this one, but I think the key here is what's the independent assessment? This is where we need strong public institutions. What does the chief of police in Toronto say about the prevalence of these issues around, you know, I'm sorry, drag brunch or whatever you want to call these events? Does it meet the reasonable test that these groups

require protection? And I just don't want to left up to the politicians to virtue signaling. We've had a decade of that. And I think I think we need any of that. I think we need some independent, reasonable people to assess the basis in the need. But should everyone be protected? Should everyone be protected for sure? Andy, I totally agree with you on the long national nightmare note as Justice Justin Trudeau in the 10 years of values and projection.

However, you know, bubble zones are created for persecuted people. The last time I checked, Curious George and the Drag Queens were not persecuted people. They may have their grievances. but they are not being targeted in the way that people of faith are. And the idea of applying a bubble zone to a social group, I won't call them an interest group because that might offend them, but a group like that, doing story time at the library for children, for me, it's just unconscionable,

and I think an insane application of the tackle. Listen, I had another story I wanted to get to, but we don't have enough time, so instead I'm going to pivot and ask you both a question. Later tonight, I'm going to be at the Canadian Museum of Human Rights for the 150th anniversary of Canada's oldest independent human rights organization, B'nai Brith, and I will be in conversation with former Prime Minister Stephen Harper. And I wonder, if you had a question that you could ask Stephen Harper, what would that be? And this is also my way of telling you, I'm trying to get you to do my work for me.

Andy, you go first. Were you a better conservative prime minister than the right-in-law, Brian Morroney? Oh, come on, I'm not asking that. Oh, come on. I would ask him why the issues in the Middle East continue to really be, it seems to be, I would ask him with his assessment of why the Liberal Party has such difficulty with the Israel-Palestine question and why they just can't find a cohesive position for our country

and just continually play both sides. Like, why is that? What's the root of that? How does he see that as someone who has been so celebrated and rightly allowed it for his leadership. And it's not just for the country, it's for his party itself. And how many times have we seen Jewish members of his caucus stand up with a, or not just his caucus,

but the liberal caucus over the past few years, stand up with a different position or talk about how disgruntled or disheartened they are by a position taken by the leadership of that party? Regan, what about you? You know, I always like to, when I think of Mr. Harper, who, you know, was a fine prime minister and, and full disclosure, I worked in his government. You know, one of the things I think Mr. Harper never gets asked about is what his predecessors

or his successors have gotten right on things. So I would ask him, you know, you kind of joke, Andy, earlier about Prime Minister Monty, to God rest his soul. But maybe you ask the Prime Minister, or Prime Minister Harper, you know, what does he think either Brian Maruni or Jean-Cretchen or Paul Martin or Justin Trudeau or even Mark Carney is getting right on some of these issues? And I think, you know, I think Mr. Harper is a statesman. and he understands the country and he comes together.

And I think it's very rare in this country where our politicians who have led the country are speaking positively about their successors or their predecessors. And I don't find Mr. Harper feel strongly about bringing the country together. So I would ask him what Justin Trudeau got right, what Brian Moran got right,

or maybe what Mr. Carney has started to do that he likes and agrees with in these issues. No, it's a very good point. I think, you know, one thing that I had, I had so much time for the Trudeau liberals in the way that they treated my father. They treated him with a great deal of respect. And as somebody who felt that that was lacking generally in our political discourse, how governments shunned the institutional knowledge that came from their predecessors to the detriment of the country,

it was really nice to see. So I had a lot of time for them on how they treated my dad. I know that it was situational. It was also self-serving and that he had some knowledge that could help them with Trump. But that doesn't change the fact that they treated him with respect. in a way that I hope every Prime Minister treats their predecessor. And so, yes, Regan, I'm going to take you up

on that. I will not be asking Andy's question. I will be asking yours. And to the both of you, I say thank you, and enjoy the rest of your week. Thanks so much, Ben. Have a great deal, Ben. And for four years, Noah and Sarah have been clying out from beneath the Denver airport. They have faced monsters, secret armies, and killing machines. But they're done running.

This season on Escaping Denver, the truth is revealed. Captives become legends, and a war a thousand years in the making erupts around them. Join us for the end of our story. The final season of Escaping Denver drops August 11th on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts.