The Ben Mulroney Show - It's going to be hard to convince people this isn't a Mark Carney coronation after last night's debate

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Guests and Topics: It's going to be hard to convince people this isn't a Mark Carney coronation after last night's debate Guest: Melissa Lantsman, Deputy Leader of the Official Opposition If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I've got this condition where I don't feel pain. You're a superhero. No. This is how intense Nova Kane sounds. Oh, wow. Imagine how it looks. Is there more? Yeah, big time.

Nova Kane, forming theaters March 14th. You hear that? Ugh, paid. And done. That's the sound of bills being paid on time. But with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card, paying your bills could sound like this. Earn rewards for paying your bill in full and on time each month. Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse

Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. I'm chomping at the bit to have this conversation with you on the Chorus Radio Network and I want to thank you for joining us on this Tuesday. You'll be forgiven if you didn't watch the liberal leadership French debate last night for a number of reasons. One none of us wanted to be subjected to this. We all want to go to an election but here we are. Two very hard to find. Three you might not go to an election, but here we are. Two, very hard to find. Three, you might not speak French. Four, it wasn't a debate. It wasn't.

It was a debate in name only. And we predicted it here on the show. Yesterday, we said, you know, Ruby Dalla for all her problems as a candidate was gonna go in there and she was gonna put her dukes up and she was gonna fire off some body shots on Mark Carney. That's what was gonna happen. Now, granted she does, no, okay, that we'll get to that after. That was gonna fire off some body shots on Mark Carney. That's what was gonna happen. Now, granted, she does, no, okay,

that we'll get to that after. That was gonna happen. Instead, we got the performance of a debate with none of the value of a debate. It was a love-in, everybody was agreeing with everybody. And yeah, so that's on brand for the Liberal Party because it was a performance, it was a show. Because a lot of us believe that this is a coronation

for Mark Carney. It was a debate and a leadership contest in name only. But one of the most surprising things after we heard so much of Chandra Arya being denigrated because he didn't speak French, and Ruby Dalla asking for a translator. No, no, no, we can't have that. Everyone has to speak French,

which I believe you have to have an understanding and a certain level of competence in French if you wanna be a leader of a bilingual nation. That is a barrier to entry, but implied in all of this denigration of those two candidates was that everybody who was gonna be there rose to the level of that level of French.

And I think everybody had this assumption that Mark Carney would be at the top of the heap. And it turns out, much to a lot of people's surprise, his French just is not ready for prime time. Let's, the CBC had a panel discussion on Mark Carney's French. Let's listen to what they had to say. Was it good enough for Quebecers and is it good enough to handle Pierre Polly Avenue, Francois Blanchet in a debate? It needs work. It's, it's not there yet.

It was at times good. Yep. And at times it was a challenge to understand what he was saying. Emily, is that your view as well? When it comes to debate with Yves-Francois Blanchet, that's when it would be in trouble. If you're debating other Englishones, then it's fine. But if you're debating Yves-François Blanchet, which is the real task for a Quebec campaign, he's going to need to get better, but he's not hopeless.

This is not a debate in which Mark Carney's branches made him lose the position that he had in terms of being ahead. Nothing of the sort happened right now. Okay. Rosie, your thoughts. Yeah. Ditto with all of that. And I would also say, at times seem to struggle to understand the question fully, which I think is more problematic for me. But this is not career ending, but it was certainly a signal that it's gotta get better. Yeah, Rosemary Barton hit the nail right on the head. He can't understand the question right now.

And here's the problem. The polls right now are suggesting that the liberals will be competitive in an election. I believe that that's why you have election campaigns is to is to level set. And there's I think a false sense that there's that the liberals could be hyper competitive in this election. I don't think that's going to happen. And I don't think that's going to happen because you've got on the other side of the podium on is will be Pierre Paul, you haveiev, not these yes men

that were there carrying Mark Carney's water. I mean, let me give you an example. There was a moment yesterday when Mark Carney was so underwater in terms of his control of the French language that he actually said, we agree with Hamas. If this were a real debate, somebody on that debate stage would have would have taken a dagger and stabbed him through the heart and made sure he never got up again.

Instead, Christia Freeland, who wants the job that by all accounts is Mark Carney's right now, helped him. She corrected him in the nicest possible way and then allowed him to restate what he was saying. This, how bad do you want the job, Christia? You could have scored a body blow. You know, when you come for the king, make sure you don't miss. You didn't even take a shot. So that's what he's dealing with.

Okay, so if the polls are to be believed, they're gonna be going to be going to the polls, you don't miss, you didn't even take a shot. So that's what he's dealing with. Okay, so if the polls are to be believed, they're gonna be competitive. I think that they are going to normalize back to where they were before, where the Tories are gonna have a plurality of the vote across the country with the exception of Quebec, where they will probably get 20 to 25% of the vote.

That's optimistic. The liberals, however, are going to be in a street fight with the Bloc Québécois for first place in Quebec. Meaning there's a chance that the liberals will get not wiped out, but they are not gonna do very well across the country with the exception of a beachhead in Quebec. They need to do everything they can to maintain that the potential of bringing 20, 30, 40

MPs from Quebec to Ottawa. Mark Carney's French today guarantees that that will not happen. Why? Because Yves-Francois Blanchet is a known quantity in Quebec. He is a Quebecer. He is respected. Whether you like his politics and his vision for Quebec, irrelevant. They know who he is. And he knows how to debate. And he most certainly knows how to debate in French.

Pierre Poliev, fighting for second or third place in that province, is perfectly bilingual. He's not a native French speaker, but he's perfectly bilingual. And he has been honing his skills, his debating skills in the House of Commons for over 20 years. He's a buzzsaw waiting to come right at Mark Carney. And so where does that leave us? Where does that leave us? Well, the general consensus is that Mark Carney wants to call a snap election as soon as he as soon as he can in March. That's what they're saying. This election should give his this this debate performance rather should give his team pause.

And I can absolutely see a scenario 100% see a scenario where his team says, you know what, sir, we realized that your French is not good enough for you to be able to compete for votes and seats in Quebec just yet. So we're going to get you a team of tutors, and you're going to spend a lot of time in Quebec and we are going to bone up on your French. We're going to take six to eight weeks, maybe 12 weeks, and then we're going to come back and we're going to have an election. And that's going to make it so the Liberal Party wins as much as they possibly can in Quebec. I can absolutely see that. Why? Because it's on brand for this party that has consistently demonstrated they will put party over country every day of the week. They 100% put money down right now that we will not have an election in March or an election call in March.

Because Mark Carney has to bone up on his French. He will get destroyed by Yves-Francois Blanchet and Pierre Poliev. Destroyed. So that's my prediction. I hope, by the way, it's a prediction. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong on this. I can't lose on this one. I'm predicting it's going to happen in two, three months. I hope to God it happens in March, but I'm predicting that that's what's going to happen. Rosemary Barton got it right the first time where she said his French is so bad, it's not that he can't answer the questions, he doesn't understand the questions, but then she said this.

I just say though, the one thing that he did do is that he referenced Quebec often, Quebec culture, Quebec language, Quebec industries. He did that perhaps more than anyone else. And I think that that'll go a long way to appeasing some people who may think his French isn't quite there yet. Absolutely false. 100% wrong. Rosie got it right the first time, she got dead wrong the second time.

When Chandra Arya said, I don't speak French, but I speak the language of money, and that's what Quebecers respect, he was laughed out of town. If Chandra Arya can't sell it, Rosie can't sell it either. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. And in the previous segment, we were talking about the liberal leadership debate, debate in air quotes, because it was anything but and here to discuss that and issues that stem from it. Melissa Lansman, deputy leader of the official opposition, Melissa, welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thanks for having me. Okay, so the most popular word at the

debate was or expression was I agree this was a debate in name only at least that's how I see it. Well, I don't I don't think it was a debate at all. And, and if you watched it, you would you would come to the same conclusion. But I think a lot of Canadians came into the debate confused about what somebody like Mark Carney believes and I think after the debate people left with even more questions than they had to begin with and it wasn't just because they couldn't

understand his his French and the the issues around the fluency of his French this was this was a bottom line after the first debate Canadians really have no idea on what Mark Carney would do as the PM given this is a bottom line after the first debate Canadians really have no idea on what Mark Carney would do as the PM given this is a bit of a coronation not really debate. Well he did say that that he wouldn't he wouldn't get tied down on whether or not he would build an east-west pipeline that passes through Quebec. He was he dodged that question. This is after of course this is after of course he told an audience in British Columbia that he would use emergency powers to that

pipeline and then and then to Quebec media in French or at least his version of French told them that the provinces would have a veto and he was asked last night again and there was no clear answer on it. Yeah well he did say though he took a definitive position on supply management as we are having this There's no clear answer on it. Yeah, well, he did say though, he took a definitive position on supply management as we're having this massive national conversation on breaking down inter-provincial trade barriers and doing everything we can to spur economic growth

from within our borders. Supply management is a big nut to crack. And it seems like he and the Liberal Party are saying, no, no, we're not touching that. And that's very important in Quebec. So what do you make of that? Well, look, I think what anybody could have made of yesterday is that he was like everything to everyone. His plan was to spend more on everything, but somehow cut taxes and then magically balance, balance the budget. Like, it's either that he's, it's either he's going to cook the books or he's not saying what, or he's saying anything to get, because he's exactly the same as the

years of the, we're not seeing any concrete plans. We're certainly not seeing any change. This is a guy who advised them for years on end. He was behind all of these policies and now there's a weird way of running away from them but promising everyone thing to everyone. And it doesn't a lot of things. They there were claims against Pierre Poliev and the conservatives. They they claim that Pierre wants to cut a Radio Canada, which Pierre himself has said he will not do. But it's clear that the liberals believe that the CBC is a fight worth fighting.

They put that in the window last week and suggested that the answer to the problems with the CBC is in fact more investment by Canadian taxpayers. So they think that that's a hill they wanna die on, which I think is silly. But how do you counter that? Because the the the the conservative party has had a history of unfortunately at the last minute in federal elections, doing something or saying something or having something misconstrued that

ends up losing them support in the province. Look, if they want to fight the next election on on on saving the CBC, I'd be, I'd be happy to do that. Uh, and I know that all of my conservative colleagues would be happy to do that. We have, we have promised, we have, we have made the promise fund, uh, the, the CBC and, uh, uh, but more than that, then I think what you're, what you saw last night is, uh, completely, uh, a continuation of the same playbook. Everything to everyone. They're gonna cut taxes, they said.

They've taken all of Pierre's idea. Here's the bottom line. If you want conservative policies, which they are now clinging towards, then vote conservative. And if you wanna run an election on saving the CBC, I'll be happy to do that. You know, a lot of us have been wondering when are we going to have an election?

A lot of us thought that when Justin Trudeau was set to announce his retirement, that that was going to lead to that he wasn't going to retire. In fact, he was going to he was going to declare an election. But in my opinion, he chose party over country to allow his party the best chances of electoral resurrection. And now I love your your assessment of this. I think his, Mark Carney's failures in French were laid bare for the entire country to see yesterday.

And I gotta think that there is now a push, there's going to be a push for him to get himself a tutor, learn French and take as long as he needs so that he will be able to sustain in a debate against Yves Francois Blanchet and Pierre Proliève whose French is perfect, which means I don't think we're going to the polls until October. Well, I mean, I guess the decision lies with them.

Today is in fact, Jagmeet Singh's pension day. So we might be a little bit closer to the polls than he was. He made some some illusions that he would seek a seat in the house. Look, at the end of the day, conservatives will fight on conservative issues. We have made promises to Canadians to act the carbon tax and build more homes and stop crime and fix our budget, fix the fentanyl crisis.

And if they want to fight the election on those issues, we're happy to do that and we're ready to do that. I'm speaking with Melissa Lansman, the deputy leader of the official opposition. And you have a history in communications. You and I both have worked, we work together with a particular politician to help them get ready for debates. Who had the best performance yesterday? Well, look, I don't think it was much of a debate. I think it was, you know, for Mr. Carney, it was a French exam and I think he failed miserably.

For everyone else, it was auditioned for cabinet. This is a coronation of Carney. And to call that a debate, I think, is an instance of intelligence. There was four people there that agreed on every single issue, that agreed that they would continue the policies that have destroyed this country over the past nine years. And so I don't think any of them particularly had a standout of performance. When I saw Christian Freeland quite literally help Mark Carney after he stumbled and said that he agreed with Hamas, that's not obviously, it's not what he meant,

but he said that and she helped him find his way back. That should have been a knockout punch. If she really wanted the job, she could have taken it right there. Look, I don't think any of these people are under the illusions that they're going to get the job that again is being awarded to Mark Carney with absolutely no scrutiny. But debate that won't have, he won't have Krisha Freeland to save him from his multiple

gaffes last night. But he will have the mainstream media, in most cases, put pressure on him. A little bit of pressure for the first day, and he failed miserably at answering Canadians as to what his plan is, what he will do when he's prime minister in a couple of weeks. And things are clear about the plan. Look, pressure makes diamonds,

and there's no pressure on Mark Carney. He is not being tested by the mainstream media. He certainly isn't being tested by people who want the job he wants. I don't think that they are doing him a, they're doing him a disservice by not preparing him for, as I'm calling it, the buzzsaw that's gonna come at him,

by somebody who has been training for this job for the better part of two decades in Pierre Poliev. This is, yeah. I think that's exact. And, and you're you're seeing it, you're seeing it in this core core coordination, where you said so, but they're putting their political drama ahead of the country. We're now staring again down the barrel of of care threats. And they've done nothing for a month, they

could have done all of these things that they are promising, they are actually in government right now. They could have cut taxes. They could have canceled the anti-energy laws. They could have done something in the last, and instead we see the political drama of the Liberal Party and Canadians are there sitting ducks to witness it all. What are you looking for tonight in the English language debate? I'll be watching. Yeah? I'll be watching. Yeah, you'll be watching. That's it.

Are you expecting Mark Carney to say something different in English that he says in French? Well, we've seen it before. He said two different things to English media and French media. So we'll see which version of Mark Carney we'll get. But maybe this one will be more comprehensible. Well, it'll be very interesting to see if they took the criticisms that they got from the media to heart and see if they tussle a little bit, or at least give us the performance of a tussle because like we all said, this ain't a debate.

It's something that looks like a debate, but in no way gives us the results of a debate. Melissa Lansman, deputy leader of the official opposition. Thank you so much for joining us on the Ben Mulrooney show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens tonight. But I think they're bubble wrapping Mark Carney through this entire thing.

He's not being tested by the media. He's not being tested in the arena of the debates. And this is not going to serve him well. You saw Pierre Poliev get the gears at every turn when he became leader and that served him well moving forward. None of this will serve Mark Carney well. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice. And we can talk your ear off about transferring your business when the time comes.

Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do – business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today. We'd love to talk business.