The Ben Mulroney Show - It's quite apparent that Mark Carney is avoiding the media

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Guests and Topics: -It's becoming quite apparent that Mark Carney is going out of his way to avoid the media -Should you ever face jail time if your dog leaves a child with life-altering injuries? with Guest: Joseph Neuberger, Neuberger And Partners Criminal Lawyers, host of the podcast “Not On Record” If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

BedMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BedMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BedMGM. Download the app today and discover why BedMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BedMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM. A sportsbook worth a slam dunk. An authorized gaming partner of the NBA.

BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey, it's DJ First Dibs. I notice you've been listening to a lot of summer vibes lately. I get it. You're dreaming about vacations. Ooh baby, that's my jam.

With Sunwing's first dibs on summer savings, let us curate something stronger than what you've been listening to. Because while your playlist screams, I need a vacation, my algorithm suggests book before March 30th. Remember Sunwing, save more, do more. Book with your local travel advisor or at Sunwing.ca This is the Thursday edition of the Ben Mulrooney show if you're listening from London Hello to you if you're listening in Toronto

Hello to you and if you're listening on a streaming service or if you're listening Anywhere in the world on in podcast form we say thank you and we say welcome. Well, today is the day. Today is the day that Doug Ford and finance minister, federal finance minister Daniel LeBlanc are down in Washington for a face-to-face closed door meeting with commerce secretary Howard Lutnick. There is a lot of debate as to what this means, how it started, is this progress?

Did our premier blink or was this in fact the Americans There is a lot of debate as to what this means, how it started, is this progress, did our premier blink, or was this in fact the Americans seeing the folly of their ways and looking for an off ramp to ratchet down the heat and regain the confidence that they have lost in a number of voters in key states, as well as the stock market itself. Donald Trump, in the Oval Office yesterday, gave us his take on how he sees the situation. It's not going to be a tough battle. In my opinion, not going to be tough. Just like when Ontario charged us, everybody said,

oh, they just charged us. I said, this will be one in one hour. And they announced what we were going to do, and they withdrew their little threat. And what they don't say in Canada is that 270 percent, have you ever heard that? We have tariffs on dairy products from Canada of 270 percent, going up to 400 percent. You never hear that. Canada is absolutely one of the worst and we, when I say worst, worst in terms of charging tariffs. Yeah, okay. Sure. This feels to me like, well, I know it is it's political posturing. It's trying to project strength in anticipation of the meeting that is happening today.

that is happening today. He continued to talk about that, the card that Doug Ford has been willing to play, which is a 25% exit tax on the electricity that Ontario ships to Michigan, Minnesota, and New York State. And here's what he said about that threat. I'm glad because electricity, you shouldn't be playing with electricity.

It affects people's lives. Actually, their life, I mean, it can affect, depending on whether it can affect their life. So we can't do that. And it doesn't make sense that our country allows electricity to be made in another country and sold into us. Who did that deal for the United States, Okay, I looked at that long ago, and I said, that's not something that's very smart.

Yeah, Mr. President, you're never gonna get a better deal on electricity than you get from Ontario. That's just a stone cold fact. It'll never ever happen. It is the deal of all deals. And it's quite rich for the president to talk about people's livelihoods when he himself has launched a trade war

that has led in a recent poll, 40% of Canadians to believe that their jobs are at risk. We're gonna talk about that a little bit later today. But make no mistake, like this is one of those things, what's the expression? One rule for thee, another for me. You know, you want everything to work in your favor and you're willing to break candidates back to get it.

But the second that you feel a little pressure in 1.5 million homes, all of a sudden, we are not playing by the rules. All of a sudden, that's a low blow. So that's the comment from Donald Trump. Let's hear from the Commerce Secretary himself, the one who will be sitting down with Doug Ford and Daniel LeBlanc.

He needed to break some guy in Ontario who said he was gonna tax American energy 25%. The President of the United States in the White House says, oh no you won't and breaks him. Breaks him in what? By a tweet and a truth and you think that's chaotic. You know what I think that is? I think that is the thank God we have a president who's taking care of us because if you were in one of those states and you thought your energy prices were going to go up 25% and you said, where's the president?

And all of a sudden he came down like thunder to make that end, you'd say. Cool. I'm glad that's the kind of White House. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. There's a whole lot of bluster coming from the Americans. Look how strong we are. Look what we did. The guy blinked. Look how strong we are. Look what we did. The guy blinked. This little guy from Ontario. And don't forget, yesterday called him a tough guy and he respected him. There's a lot of shifting narratives coming out of Washington

because I don't believe they even know what is going on. You know, that was during a larger interview where Howard Lutnick was challenged that this whole this whole tariff plan is chaotic and he he challenged that and whole tariff plan is chaotic. And he challenged that and said exactly the opposite. That's not the case. But if they don't know why they've launched this tariff war, of course they're not gonna know how to deal with somebody who responds to the tariff war.

Speaking of that person, let's go to Doug Ford now. And here's what he says about Donald Trump's and his team's posturing in advance of this meeting. You know, they want to call the win. Whatever. It's they're playing politics. But here and there, what happened yesterday, very clearly, Secretary Lutnick called me.

I didn't call him, put an olive branch out. And only a foolish person would decline or hang up on someone and say, I'm not listening. We said, well, that's fine. We need a meeting and we need it right away. He agreed. He said, fly down tonight, fly down tomorrow or the next day. We're bringing Minister LeBlanc with us

and the ambassador to have that conversation, to sit down and see what their requirements are, what their needs are. Okay, so you heard Donald Trump, you heard Howard Lutnick, and now you heard their counterpoint, Doug Ford. Which one of them sounds, honestly, in your mind, in your heart, in your head, which one of those people sounds like he actually

has a grasp of the reality on the ground? Which one of them sounds like he's here to do business? Which one of these guys sounds like the adult in the room? Because I know who I'm picking. And it is not because I like one over the other, not even because I'm Canadian. Any good faith observer would hear those three men and say two of them are into theatrics and the other one is into getting a deal done.

Doug continues about, again, in this part it was interesting to me and new to me between the Ontario leader and the federal finance minister, who is leading the charge? Who's leading the charge down in Washington? I always say when you have your largest customer, you listen to your largest customer in business. the federal finance minister, who is leading the charge? Who's leading the charge down in Washington? I always say, when you have your largest customer, you listen to your largest customer in business. And we'll sit there and listen and make sure that we bring that information back

and sit around the table. It's the federal government that's leading this, not myself. They're gonna lead the negotiations. We'll have a very loud voice in that conversation, along with all the other premiers. Yeah, listen, of course there has to be a federal leadership position in a meeting like this. They're the only ones who can speak on behalf of Canada. But in my humble estimation, the door doesn't get open to the White House without the hard work of Doug Ford and his team.

He set the table and the feds are going to be able to feast, hopefully, and ultimately lead to a deal. Finger, honestly, fingers crossed on behalf of everyone listening. I know we are hoping for the best outcome here and I'm going to be on pins and needles until we hear what comes out of this very important meeting. TD Direct Investing offers live support so whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro you can make your investing steps count and if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for total fund savings adventure maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. P.A.R.E.N.T.S. Yep. Camp in floating tree houses hundreds of feet off the ground? Check.

Jump in a big tub of mud on purpose? Call it rejuvenation. We don't care. Just pack your fun pants and let childhood rule your family vacation. Discover why California is the ultimate playground at VisitCalifornia.com Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for spending a little bit of your Thursday with us. So if reports are to be believed and there's no reason not to, by Friday we will have a new Prime Minister sworn in by our Governor General. Mark Carney is the Prime Minister Designate and the leader of the Liberal Party, and he will be sworn in along with his new Cabinet on Friday. And so after a protracted and lackluster popularity contest, Mark Carney, who's never been elected anything in his life,

won the leadership of his party with 89% of the vote, with only 38% turnout of that party, of the 400,000 registered liberals. 38% voted and he got 89% of that party of the 400,000 registered liberals. 38% voted and he got 89% of that. So he got about 150,000 votes and he will be our prime minister. And make no mistake for all of you chirping at me on Twitter. Yes, our system works this way. I am not taking issue with that.

But make no mistake, there is no parallel to this in Canadian history that I know of. Certainly not in modern Canadian history. He is an unelected and thus far unaccountable person. And because of that, I feel, and by the way, that's how the system works. I recognize that. However, I believe it is

incumbent upon him, if he believes in democracy and accountability, that he should also therefore be the most transparent and accessible prime minister we've ever had in terms of his the media's access to him. And yesterday when he was in Hamilton, CHCH News put out a tweet that said, an inauspicious start for PM Designate Mark Carney, no questions taken from reporters, and his handlers told the camera operator pooling the event to shut off sound when he was inside talking to workers. This is an affront to anybody who believes that open discussion and accessibility of our leaders is necessary for a healthy democracy. Here's what Selena Cesar-Chavann said, who was a part of Justin Trudeau's first government and of course left with a lot of anger and a lot of consequences.

Here's what she had to say on Toronto Today about how you can't avoid the media, especially in an election campaign. This is a challenge that Carney has right now. Silence might work when you're a prospective leader, but it won't fly in an election. People need to know who you are. They need to see you present and connectable and relatable

and they don't elect shadows. So I think that he needs to do it. And the challenge is he has a short window. So if he's not doing it now, people are talking about it. What is he going to do jump out and say peekaboo? Like the pokeroo? He needs to like actually get out there and start talking. Yeah. And so now I want to talk to you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. It's easy for us in the media to get upset about this.

We want to do our jobs, and we think talking to a man like this helps us do our jobs. But does it bother you? Does it bother you as a Canadian that you don't know very much about who our new prime minister is and the fact that he refuses to face reporters and answer tough questions. Does that bug you? Does that bother you? Does it offend you? Let's hear what you have to say. And we'll start with Edward. Edward, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Thanks for taking my call. Yes. Yes. It annoys me that he is unelected, never held a position

he is unelected, never held a position as an MP or an MPP for that matter. It's the first time in Canadian history. Unfortunately, his ethical compass doesn't point in the right direction. He should be transparent. He is not. He is an elitist. I have met and know some of the wealthiest people in this country worth 10 and 11 figures. And the common thread amongst all of them that I have met and know are down to earth and can speak to anybody from the person that sweeps the floor to the CFO. These

people are decent, kind for the most part, they have a moral and ethical compass. Mark Carney, sadly, you know, he'll be an easy target at the debate, he'll be an easy target in the media, but only if they report the stuff. Like I was reading something. Edward, I've got a lot of calls to get to, but I want to thank you for your input on this. Let's say hi to Andrew. Andrew, what do you think about this? Should Mark Carney be more accessible to the media?

Good morning, Matt. Morning. Thanks for making my drive more bearable every day when I'm on the road. Thank you, my friend. Just to, you know know what in all honesty this is where you know I love political like strategy and in my opinion if you're working for the strategy team for Mark Carney right now you need to get out

ahead of this. You need to make it known who this man represents and he's not doing that and the key thing here here is you got to train the Conservatives who have basically humanized Pierre Poliev in a way that he makes him relatable to the Canadian public. And if you're not able to match that, then you're going to ultimately end up losing and losing in a landslide. Andrew, yeah, thank you, Andrew. And look, I do not think that the party has done Mark Carney any favors by bubble wrapping him and shrouding him and protecting him and coddling him. I think they that the more they adopt this tactic of playing keep away with their

leader and ultimately our leader, they are preparing him to get slaughtered on the campaign trail. Politics in Canada, especially today, is a blood sport. And the people at the top of their parties right now are the best at their game. And they are ready to battle with a person who has not been battle tested. And if I were them, I'd say, let's get him out there. Let's see how he performs so that we can work with him. But they don't seem intent on doing that. Because maybe they've got polling data that suggests it's better for them long term if they keep them away might be might be worse for democracy, but it's better for

us. And that to me is on brand for the Liberal Party of Canada, at least this our incarnation of it. Justin, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Appreciate it. Yeah. I think he's they're trying to time it right here with Carney. I mean, you look at Pierre, and he's he's doing a little bit too much of the same old carbon tax Carney and times up and just like Justin and Carney is a smooth calculated person. And I think he's going to time this right. And I think the liberals

are going to get in with the majority government on this one, because it's Carney time. Yeah, look, I mean, they have a path to victory. And I think it's surprised a lot of people, myself included. But let me tell you, when the official photo of the Mark Carney cabinet is released, the Tories are going to have a field day with that. They are going to be able to point to every single person in that cabinet and remind Canadians that these are the people who voted

on the capital gains inclusion rate. These are the people who voted 15, 16, 17 times for the carbon tax. These are the people who, when push came to shove, were more about performance than they were about policy. These are the same people that got elected alongside Justin Trudeau. And that's all gonna happen with a single picture. So again, election campaigns matter.

And I think all things being equal, if Mark Carney can control everything, yeah, there's probably a path to victory. But come an election campaign, there's a lot that a candidate cannot control. And so I wish him luck, but it's gonna get bloody. And I don't think he's ready for that. He has not proven to me that he has the metal

to get into the arena, because he hasn't gotten into the arena. Show me what you're capable of. And then I'll tell you whether I think you got a shot. Phil, welcome to Ben Mulroney show. Hi, Ben. How are you? I'm well. This is absolutely preposterous. We've got a guy that's been shielded from the media shielded from the public. We don't know who he is, really know who he is actually. And who's to say that we're going to even have an election? I mean, the way things are

going here, this is almost like a kind of totalitarian dictatorship where you just insert a guy that, you know, nobody's really voted for, nobody really knows who he is. And then we're expected to just basically be fictitious. Yeah, I wouldn't go I wouldn't go so far as to make that claim. I think this is completely in keeping with our system. Doesn't mean you have to like it. It's just it's an exceptional moment. It's an exceptional moment where the party in power chose this man simple as that he and he

happens to be unelected. There are plenty of unelected people that have assumed leadership of their parties never to become our prime minister. But this is what we've got. But that's what I'm saying. It's therefore incumbent upon this man to compensate for that lack of accountability at the ballot box by being accountable in front of the press. And the fact that he's got neither of those speaks in my mind to a level of disrespect of the voter.

He just doesn't care. The party doesn't care that you, you don't know who he is. He's going to be prime minister and you're just going to take it. Why? Because the liberal party has dained it. So we got time for a couple more calls. Let's say hi to Andrew. Morning, Ben.

Morning. Ah, yes. Michael Lignati of 2.0 that's what I see in this is basically they parachuted somebody in that's supposedly going to save a party that has no as well beyond being saved. Yeah I see a lot of parallels there and I want to thank you for the call. A lot of parallels with Ignati if I do wonder if he loses is he going to stick around and try to rebuild? I don't know. We'll have to see. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining

manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today. We'd love to talk. Business. Hi, I'm Donna Friesen from Global National. Life moves fast these days and we want to make it even easier for you to get the news

you need. That's why you can now get Global National every day as a podcast. The biggest stories of the day with analysis from award-winning global news journalists. New episodes drop every day, so take this as your personal invitation to join us on the Global National podcast. You can find it on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Welcome back to the Ben Mulready show. Thank you so much. We're going to continue taking your calls on a new topic.

And this one hits close to home for me years and years and years ago. My family was on vacation. years and years ago, my family was on vacation. And my youngest brother, Nick, went to pet a dog that was on the property that we were staying on. And this dog was an older dog and had like an old injury that none of us knew about. And when he pet the dog, that injury caused the dog to attack and bit him in the face, like chop down right in his face, and shook him and threw him. And my mother, who is an absolute superhero, as all of us were frozen,

with an inability to do anything because there was so much blood, she wrapped his head in a towel, threw her under his arm, ran down to the car and took him to the hospital before any of us knew what to do. And mercifully, he avoided any long-term damage. He had to have surgery and his face was swollen, but none of the vital parts of like the muscles or the nerves were damaged and like by the grace of God. So when I read the story today that a woman

who was involved in a dog attack, her dog attacked a child who was nine years old, just over a year ago, just under a year ago, and left the child with life altering injuries. I know what that means. I know what that could have meant. And this was a woman as we've learned. She had her dog that was off leash.

It was a violent dog, had attacked people in the past, was required to wear a muzzle, was not wearing a muzzle, should have been on a leash, wasn't on a leash, attacked this young boy who is going to have these issues forever. And once the dog was separated from the child, fled back to her condo. So later on, the dog was taken into custody and was put down. And now she has pled guilty to the crimes. I wish I could remember what the charges were, but it's pretty substantial stuff.

But the question I have is, should owners of dogs in situations like this spend time behind bars? Now she's pled guilty, making life a lot easier for the courts, taking responsibility. But to talk a little bit more about this in a matter that's far more substantive, we're joined now by Joseph Neuberger of Neuberger and Partners Criminal Lawyers

and the host of the podcast, Not On Record. Joseph, welcome to the Thursday Ben Mulroney Show. Oh, thank you very much, Ben, for having me on. So like to me, when I see this, to me it's like walking around with a loaded weapon. If you know your dog is capable of this and you are brazenly being sort of callous with the public safety, to me, it's like having a weapon. I agree. And criminal negligence encompasses acts or even omissions where you're not averting

to a risk that causes a significant harm. In this case, it also covers someone who knows that there is a significant risk and takes absolutely no mitigating steps to reduce that risk, but in fact, take steps that increases that risk. This dog was not muzzled and was not on a leash. Yeah, it wasn't muzzled, wasn't on a leash, and she fled. And so I get that, you know, consideration has to be given to the fact that she pled guilty. So what is the punishment for something like this? Well, punishments can range from no jail,

putting a person on probation to jail. And it can also include a conditional sentence where somebody is essentially going to be serving their sentence at home under strict conditions. I'm not sure what the Crown will be seeking, but this is something that needs a very significant deterrent response because we know that this person has a history of not adverting to this risk. And Joseph, that's where I'm glad we're having this conversation today before the sentence comes down because you know, there are a lot of responsible dog owners out there, but there

are also irresponsible dog owners and they make it harder for those who are responsible and and this person showed a disregard for public safety and whatever else there is and I I think that there has to be an element of deterrence from this sentence so that others who are as callous and Have such a disregard for public safety with their own dogs know that if they do this they will spend some time in jail. I'm not looking for this woman to lose a year of her life, but I think symbolically it would send a message that this kind of behavior by dog owners will not stand. That the City of Toronto, the province of Ontario and across Canada, if you do something

like this, you will be spending some time in jail. No, I agree with you. I think specific deterrence is a factor here because she clearly didn't advert to the risks. There's problems within the condominium and she was brazen enough to have this dog off leash, not muzzled. And the public, there is always some value to the public understanding that if you are not adverting to the safety of the public, especially a child, in these circumstances, there is going to be a significant penalty. Now, you could meet that out in a conditional sentence where they are restricted to home for a prolonged

period of time and only out for work and a few other factors. That can have an impact as well, but something of an incarceration, whether it is through a conditional sentence or, you know, three to six months, something around that range, I think is appropriate particularly here we have significant injuries to this child which are going to be lasting never mind the emotional psychological impact. Absolutely well Joseph Neuberger I want to thank you very much for joining us this is an important conversation we all deserve to be feel safe especially around dogs because kids kids routinely just want to run up to a dog and pet it

and and and if you're walking around with essentially a loaded weapon on four legs, that's not a world I want to live in. But thank you very much for being here. My pleasure, take care, Ben. And I want to hear from you at 416-870-6400 or 1-888-225-TALK. What is an appropriate punishment

for someone in this situation? Should we ever face jail time for the actions of our pets? I firmly believe we absolutely should. I think in a situation like this, it's pretty clear to me that it was a terrible situation made worse by the behavior of this dog owner. The ramifications for the young boy are myriad and long-lasting and I don't care that she she pleaded guilty. Maybe she knew they had her dead to rights and that's you know, that was that. And I just think for other bad apples out there, this would send a signal.

Muzzle your dog, keep it on a leash or if something goes wrong, you will face the same punishment that person did. You will spend, I don't even care if it's a weekend in jail. Something that tells people that we care about consequences of actions. And I don't know what goes into a conditional release and home house arrest or anything like that. To me, it just does not feel as significant as spending even a day in jail.

We hear all those stories about kids scared straight by spending a night in jail. You know, we do it, we hear all those stories about kids scared straight by spending a night in jail. I think somebody seeing the inside of a jail cell makes them think long and hard about their actions in a way that, you know, serving your sentence from the comfort of your own home doesn't. That's just how I see things. Let me know what you think. Mike, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, definitely jail time. But let's take it a step further. Let's make these licenses for these dogs that they have to purchase. Also, insurances for these dogs just in case something happens like this. And there is somewhere that, you know, somebody

can go after. You know, put it out there. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm willing to look at anything. Again, I don't want to throw the book at this person. But if the, what would happen if the kid had died? I don't know what these life altering injuries are. I hope to God they are not as bad as I suspect they might be. But this dog could have killed this child. And thankfully that didn't happen, but it could have happened. And which means the next time something like this occurs, a child could die. And I don't want to see that. I love dogs.

I don't ever want to see dogs in those positions. But if you were the owner of a dog and you know that dog doesn't play well with others and they have a tendency to bite and to lash out, like you, we need to send a message that this this level of aggression will not stand. Shane, what do you think? Hey, Ben, so senior screener, I think she should do time. Absolutely. It's completely irresponsible. I own two Rottweilers, one of which is a trained Durham police dog. And I know I know my limits with my dogs, they're very friendly.

I know that they wouldn't hurt a fly, but I can't rely on other people to not be stupid. And it's other people's stupidity that makes me have to protect the dogs even more. And the female's getting older now, she's eight years old. I know what her timeline is in life. And I know she's getting older, she's getting more pains in her body. And I know she's getting older, she's getting more

pains in her body. And I make sure now that when people go around her to pet her, I have to be around her. And I have to tell them, don't touch her body. Don't touch this part. Just touch her head and don't go near her face. And I have to be present. My male Roddy is, I don't even think he knows he's a Roddy, but I still have to worry some days, right? I don't know if some idiot is gonna do something that's gonna aggravate the dog. No, exactly, Shane. And you are one of those responsible dog owners and you should be celebrated. And by the way, please thank your dog for their service. We appreciate that they have put their life on the line in the service of the community. All right, if you're on the line, please stick around.

I definitely want to take your calls next because we're gonna have more calls on this really important topic on the Ben Mulroney Show. Thanks so much for spending a little bit of your day with us and I wanna thank everybody who's been waiting patiently on the lines. We're talking about this case of a dog attacking a young boy in a park left with long lasting life altering injuries.

The woman was arrested, the dog was put down, she pleaded guilty and now we're asking the question what is the punishment for this sort of crime? And who do we start with? We're starting with Adam. Adam, thank you so much for patiently waiting. Hey Ben, how you doing? I'm good, thanks. I think you need to look at this another way. And instead of penalizing the owner of the dog,

why don't we teach our children not to touch things that aren't theirs, including animals? You don't just run up to a wild animal. They are wild animals at the end of the day. Well, no, they're domesticated animals. It's not, they're not like a wolf or a fox. No, no, it is an animal. An animal can do anything at any time.

No, no, but you qualified as a wild animal. I'm simply taking issue with that characterization. This is a domesticated animal that we permit to live in the city amongst people. Therefore it's, and I, and I take your point. There are kids out there that run up and touch dogs. I have been very strict with my kids. You do not do that. You always ask permission, but I don't believe that's what happened here. I don't believe that that's what happened. And even if it did, there is no scenario in which it is okay for a dog that you know is violent to be off leash around kids. Like I said, that is like brandishing a loaded weapon and throwing on the ground and it goes off. As far as I'm concerned, Tracy, welcome to the show. and throw it on the ground and it goes off. As far as I'm concerned. Tracy, welcome to the show. Good morning.

So I have a situation. I had a home daycare a few years ago and I've had dogs all my life. And I had this beautiful dog a year and a half and she was a part of the family. Never showed any signs of aggression at all. Sure enough, she bit a child on the face. And thank God it wasn't a severe serious injury physically, mentally,

it was awful. But yeah, as soon as that dog bit, it was, he's gone. She's out of here, you know, and no, no second chances. It's, it, what people said, well, how could you get rid of it? It's your family. Like maybe that child provoked it. You should go to a dog behavior and it's like, no, no, even if he did provoke it, I need to have a dog in my home that's not going to hurt children no matter what happens. And no second chances. No, and you're right. And thankfully, happy ending, we were able to re home in a place where no children, no grandchildren, lots of land for her to run and still visit her to this day. That's good. A dog being a dog, but, but yeah, no second chances.

Absolutely. Well, I'm glad to hear that the injury wasn't significant and I'm glad to hear that there's a happy ending for the dog because I did think you were going to a darker place. Thank you for the call, Tracy. Hey, George, welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Hey, how are you doing, Ben? I'm doing well, thank you. Good, good.

You know what? We license lots of stuff in things that we own that are dangerous or perceived to be dangerous. You know, there's so many people, a friend of mine raises cane corsels and probably 75% of the people that want to buy one and you know they just shouldn't have a dog at all never mind a cane coarser and you know fortunately he's a very responsible breeder and he would never put one of his dogs into a home that wasn't capable of looking after it but there you see this all the time you see this all like maybe have a test I don't know maybe before you can become a dog

owner no well I think I think I think, I think the point is like, yes, as you said, there are bad owners out there, right? This is a high profile case of a bad owner, not a bad dog necessarily, but a bad owner and all the consequences, negative consequences that flowed from this, the injury and what happened to the dog stem from a bad owner. And therefore, because it's a high profile case, I believe it's incumbent upon the court to in whatever way makes sense, make an example out of this bad owner to send a message to other bad owners.

There have to be consequences here that reverberate beyond the comfort and life of this one owner. It has to reverberate amongst the community of careless dog owners so that they know that they have to up their game or the same thing could befall them. And I'd love to keep these calls coming at 4168706400

or 1-888-225-TALK. What do you think of my take? What's an appropriate punishment for an irresponsible dog owner whose dog injures a child? Samantha, welcome to the show. I think that there are an awful lot of not quote unquote good dog owners. I mean, it's spring, take a walk, see what's out there, dog experiment everywhere, and that's a minor issue. But I think an appropriate punishment would be punitive damages.

There's going to be extra cost for this child and why should the government be on the hook for watching an insurance company beyond the hook for it in fact if i burn my house down my shirt my chance would be void if you're carrying if you're mystery disregarding the rules of safety with your animal and and purposely taking it out there at risk your insurance should also be void i just think punitive damages

you can pay for that kid's extra cost forever. And I'm really, I don't even know this case. I just tuned in every six months or at least once a year, we have something like this. When are we going to make a difference? We bring in dogs from third world countries for God sakes. Why are we doing that? Yeah, I think, I think the idea of punitive damages is a good one. I know that in the United States, punitive damages are certainly, I think, out of control. You know, you've got to, you ask for,

yeah, in a lawsuit, you ask for, you know, $400,000 in damages with another 56 million in punitive damages. To me, that's a little, that's more than a little excessive, but those cases send messages. And not to say that the American justice system is is in any way a high watermark. But we pay attention when those numbers get bandied about, you know, it changes behavior to know that you could be on the hook for a huge settlement and a huge judgment against you. So

yeah, I know that we fall on the other side of the equation as it relates to punitive damages in Canada. I'm not quite sure what our I remember reading about it. I remember studying a little bit in law school, but I have to admit, it's a it's it's not as familiar to me as it should be. I do know that we do offer them in certain cases, but it's very hard, right? And the numbers are not anywhere like they are in the United States.

But yeah, your insurance, I mean, you should be on the hook for the care of this child for the rest of their life. I don't see why not. You caused this damage. If it weren't because of your careless behavior, this child would grow up and have the life that they were meant to have.

And because of you, they're now on a different path that will cost them more. Or perhaps their earning potential won't be as great. Or perhaps they might have mental health issues and anguish because of this. They might have PTSD because of this. I don't know that it's up to the government to foot that bill.

I don't see why it would be. Government didn't cause this. Government licensed the dog, you know, did everything they were supposed to do. There are signs posted that your dog is supposed to be on a leash and you did none of those things. I don't know why the government would be on the hook for all these additional costs incurred

by the family of the child. It should be on the shoulders of the person who didn't care. They didn't care what their dog did. This is an F around and find out situation in my opinion. Anyway, I want to thank all of you for calling in. A great conversation on what I think was a really important issue in the city of Toronto. You're going to be the first one set home. I can do this. I'm physically fit. I'm mentally fit. They must learn to adapt or they'll be voted out. Being a physicist, playing men's hockey, this does not scare me at all. When my kids watch this, I want them to look at me and say, I'm proud of him.