The Ben Mulroney Show - It's story time with Ben! The toxic response to an open and generous invite

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

- SUSAN STEVENSON/ London city councillor - Melissa Matlow  –  WORLD ANIMAL PROTECTION If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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the payroll party to the nation. A national payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the back seat.

The whole way? The whole way. Welcome, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. October, 2nd of October. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. And we want to start the show today with a new segment called Storytime with Ben Mulroney. It's story time. It's story time. It's story time. Let's get ready. It's story time. It is story time. But before we begin with story time, a preamble, if you will, a pre-story time. We want to share and remind you of the story of the Dufferin Grove

encampment. Well, the Dufferin Grove encampment has been cleared again. Toronto City staff, private security, returned to Dufferin Grove Park on Wednesday morning to remove people who had come back after last week's heavy equipment clearing. The morning enforcement started around 715 yesterday morning. Tents were dismantled. Some residents pulled out and they were told they had minutes to collect their belongings. There were arrests. Six people arrested for trespassing, including two encampment residents. Others were warned they would be arrested if they returned. Now, there were some clashes. One neighborhood resident, Jazzy Kaiser, said that guards chased, tackled, and handcuffed her for defending encampment residents. Police issued her a trespass

order. The city disputes her claims. And I think it bears reminding you that when one of these clashes occurs, you're going to have two different interpretations of the events. This is what happened last Friday. Please start packing two bags, okay? I'll be back in 15 minutes, Sam. Please have two bags ready to go. We're being assaulted by the city of Toronto right now. They're attacking us in our tents. We need bodies on the ground immediately.

Please pack up your things. We'll be back in 15 minutes. And the other side interprets that as an assault and an attack. So clearly, two different visions, two different perspectives. So with the update yesterday, my producer thought it would be interesting to have somebody on the show today, who is a supporter of the Dufferin Grove encampment residence. And Mike, why don't you tell us, before we get into storytime, why don't you tell us about the email that you sent to a gentleman by the name of Michael DeForge? Well, I reached out to Mr. DeForge to say, hey, we want to hear from all sides of this.

story. We want to better understand what it is that the residents of Defer and Grove are having an issue with, why they can't be, why they find the shelters so dangerous because a lot of people feel that way. We want to hear possible solutions. We really want to get to the bottom of this story. Completely open and honest question. And so you sent that email and the response you got is the reason we're having story time today. Mr. DeFour, who is, based on his Instagram, looks to be an exceptionally talented artist. He, a wonderfully colorful poster art. It's, and he looks like he's quite successful.

He could have sent us a simple no thank you or no, I hate your show or anything like that. But instead, he crafted quite the tale, which we're going to share parts of it with you right now. Here's why, here's one of the reasons he turned down our request. quote, Ben Mulroney, whose on-air persona seems to have landed somewhere between, quote, less charismatic Ted Bundy, and, quote, youth counselor Joseph Goebbels. And then in parentheses, what's with the backwards baseball cap seems to be on the Nepo Baby career track for falling upwards, I believe you meant to say failing upwards, through life with his upcoming global news stint, I'm glad he bounced back from being asked to resolve. signed from E-Talk after his wife sent a string of bizarre threats to a black woman. When Mulroney spreads Islamophobic conspiracy theorists from Mark Emery, a man who once tweeted Muslims or the scourge of the earth, promotes genocidal denial and grandstands on how

righteous it is to hang up on collars expressing that Canadians have a right to protest, I'm encouraged that the spirit of journalism is alive and well in the millionaire heir to a prime minister whose austerity policies helped contribute to the housing crisis we're currently living it. I hope his rising star doesn't threaten your job in any way. Unfortunately, my schedule's a bit full up for the next few days, so I won't be able to squeeze in the show. Like I said, had you written no thank you, we wouldn't be having story time today. But Michael DeForge, we're going to spend a little bit of time on this. So when I read that at the end, I was like, huh. Yeah. So is this a no? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, a few things. My personal feeling is whenever you summon

conversational nazism is what i call it you've abdicated any any any any right to win a conversation any right i mean you i've been called a lot of things uh but uh but summoning ted bundy joseph gerbils and calling me a nepo baby uh all in one sentence and it's a long sentence i mean that's impressive um the michael de forge the invitation to come on our show is still open i mean And it can be a, clearly it could be a conversation between two lightweights. I'm somebody who's been failing upwards and you draw doodles for a living. So between the two of us, I'm sure we could solve all of the world's problems. I enjoy talking to people who may change my mind.

I hope that you do too. I think we could have an honest conversation about what's going on in these encampments, why the people who've chosen Dufferin Grove feel hell-bent on refusing to avail themselves of our shelter system. If there is a problem in the shelter system, we want to highlight it. And yeah, I'm, oh, I did want to point out one thing that I do think it's incumbent upon me to point out. When we reference that tweet from Mark Emery, that's not me saying it. That's not my producer saying it. This is based in what our leaders have said. We had, um, so talk about what the tweet actually said. Yeah, it was a, it was a math tweet suggesting that some of the

decisions that are being made by our government are based on demographic changes with a rise in population, Muslim population versus a stagnant Jewish population that may be, call me crazy, politicians may view those demographic shifts politically, cynically, as a place. for votes. Call me crazy, but in a column by Thomas Mulcair in the National Post, he mentioned an exchange with Melanie Jolie regarding her position on the Israel-Hamas war, which Thomas Mulcair described in his column is utterly incomprehensible. He quotes Melanie Jolie as saying, Thomas, have you seen the demographics of my riding? This was our foreign minister. That's what she was supposed to have replied. So you got a problem with my interpretation. Take it up with

Milanesee Lee. I wish that I wish you the very best kind sir with your doodles and your drawings and your posters. I've seen that you're quite successful and maybe maybe there's room on your couch or in your guest room for some of these for some of these Dufferin Grove residents to take up, you know, to sleep, to couch surf, if you will, because we know, I mean, clearly your heart is that big that you would want to give of yourself far more than a Nazi baby killing murderer would ever do. And I just want you to know, I appreciated how well you wrote this. I'm sure that you've passed it on to a number of your friends and you thought this is how this story is going to end. But the story ends, well, hopefully the story doesn't end Michael DeForge.

Hopefully this is not the end of the story. Hopefully, and I say this genuinely. Hopefully, You hear this or somebody points this out to you and you come on this show. We can have a genuine conversation about what's ill, what is ailing this city and the problems that are facing our homeless population and the problems that they face as they debate whether or not to enter our shelter system. I would like to bring this up with the mayor, but she's a little bit busy. Oh, we don't have time to get to the mayor anymore. Listen, this has been the first, our very first attempt at Ben Mulrenner. story time. And I want to thank you for spending it with me. Michael DeForge, the invitation stands. And if you would like to join us here on the show, please do so. Coming up, a London

City Councilor keeps tilting at windmills to get answers about that city's shelter system. Don't go anywhere. This is the Ben Mulroney show. And the problems that ill, the city of Toronto, are not necessarily specific and unique to Toronto. So let's cast our regard to London, Ontario, that faces similar problems of homelessness and a need to care for those most vulnerable members of our society. The city tries to do what it can. And sometimes the city is overwhelmed by the need. London Cares is a city service that provides showers and basic care for homeless and is currently limiting the number of people on the property due to safety concerns, resident complaints. The system is overwhelmed.

Here to discuss this is London City Councilor Susan Stevenson. Susan, welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Grateful to be here. So tell me about London Cares. yeah well it's an organization one of the leaders in our homeless response we give them four point five million dollars a year to help care for the homeless and and they have a building they have a building and and the homeless the homeless population can access it at various times correct to to for 30 to 3 and what are the services that are that are offered inside those

doors up to 25 people can come in at a time they offer connection and, you know, paperwork help as well as bath, showers, access to food, other things like that. Okay. And so, but there are new property rules that are limiting the number of people allowed. They're restricting prohibited items. They're providing designated storage for those using a service. London Care's hours have been shortened from 7.30 a.m. to 3.30 p.m. to align with these enforcement rules. Why have those rules been changed? Why is it now harder to access London Cares? Well, they're saying that it was safety concerns of staff who didn't feel – it said due to more frequent incidents involving violence and property damage, it became unsafe for them to attend the building at night due to the large number of people. Yeah, and the picture that I saw, I don't know if you sent us the picture, but people were camped out outside in tents, and it looked like a mini-tent city of people who just want, I guess, whose goal was to get inside and avail themselves of those services.

How many people have been camped outside? Oh, that's a good question, but it looked like over 100. Over 100. And so now the city is now moving them off the property. is that correct? Well, yeah, dispersing them into the neighborhood. Right, which I'm sure is making the residents and taxpayers super psyched. Yeah, no, it's not good because there's, you know, even the staff, trained staff are saying that they didn't feel safe and there was property damage and violence.

So what about untrained local residents and business owners who don't get compensated for the property damage or coverage for the violence? It's a real issue. So when we talk about a homeless response, if we're only open for a few hours a day for showers, we're feeding 400 to 450 people a day at that location, and there's nowhere for them to sleep or access in the evening or weekends. Yeah. It seems like the city is caught between a rock and a hard place. I mean, has there been any talk of tasking a permanent police presence in that space to ensure,

that the property damage is minimized and the safety of the staff is insured? They have security there. And they can't do anything? Well, at the moment, the property remains pretty clear. They're sending them off the property at the moment. But we've also got, we need to put security into the municipal lots to try to keep people from congregating in the municipal lots.

And then if they go to the parks, then we need to send the coordinated informed response out or police. and then if they go, you know, into people's backyards, then we're getting other calls. So, Susan, what does the city do? You've got a homelessness issue. You have a service that is funded in the millions of dollars by taxpayers to help mitigate that problem. And the people tasked with being that solution, even if it's a temporary solution, are saying they can't do their jobs because the people they want to help are making them feel

unsafe. What do you do? Well, that is the million dollar question and it's something that council, I think, gets to address because we've been told we have this whole community system response, 70 organizations, 200 people, the experts are at the table,

we need to defer to their expertise. But this is the result of it. You know, I've watched two videos recently, zombie capital of Canada and the most drug addicted city in Canada. They feature her my ward. And at the same time, we've got the leader of London Care saying their employees are facing moral distress because they have a 94-year-old homeless woman last week who they had

to decide to we give her a blanket and talk to her and teach her how to sleep under a tree or try to advocate for her. And I'm thinking, it's not what we're paying for. Susan, a 94-year-old homeless woman and the people who are tasked with helping are obviously. This would cause such distress for them because if they feel that the only thing they can do is teach her how to sleep under a tree and give her a blanket, if that's the best that we can do in 2025 in Canada, then the system itself that we've set up, I think warrants a second look to see if how we've built this system is in any way making the facts on the ground better. So then why does the value for money audit say we're doing great? We just need more money from the province. And then the $600,000 to researchers to evaluate our whole community system response came back unable to give us all the metrics that they laid out that they were going to provide. Susan, they paid $600,000 to consultants to tell them that they were doing a great job?

There were three foundations that donated $200,000 each. And for two years, they're supposed to do research. They were supposed to give us all these metrics. And when I said to them, how come we didn't get all the metrics? They said we did the best that we could. And all we need is more money from the province. I mean, that's like somebody saying the solution to our health care issues in Canada is more money. Like, sure, I'm sure that's part of it.

And that you can always do more with more money. But the system that you're putting the money into is producing terrible outcomes. so it's not an issue of the money going in it's the the issue of what system the money is going into yes i mean our staff uh you know paid 32 000 to a consultant just this recently to tell us to renew a contract for one shelter for a year and ask our shelters to take in 20 extra people and use a community center in cold weather Susan, what are your colleagues on city council saying? What is your mayor saying in response to this?

We are leaders in this space. Other cities are replicating what we're doing. They're asking us for advice and we just need more money from the province. What? I mean, listen, I appreciate that people can look at a situation and see it differently. You know, we were just talking about the Dufferin Grove encampment and, you know, somebody sees the cops as assaulting them when they're politely. asking him to leave. I get that. It's politics. But this is people's lives.

This is life and death. And sticking to your guns because you may have some stake either ideological or moral or eth... I mean, if people aren't getting the help they need and we're spending millions of dollars on that, then surely people can have

a little bit of humility and admit that the system needs tweaking at the very least. And you're finding that your colleagues are looking at the same situation you're looking at and saying everything's fine here, nothing to see, just give us more money? Yes.

I don't know how you get up every day and go do your job, Susan. I'm not trying to be glib and I'm not trying to be cute. I don't know how you do your job. It must feel like you're speaking in different language or, you know, to use the words of Mugatu, it must feel like you're taking

crazy pills. Yeah, it does because we've got, the homeless are not getting the help that they need. Our agencies are saying they're employees, face moral distress every day. Our residents have had it. They are furious with the constant property damage, violence, and the safety risks to their children. And our staff are also having issues, you know, because we put them in the confrontational setting every day of addressing these issues with homeless people. And yet we say everything's fine. We have the

plan. We are leaders in this space. We just need more funding. Look, saying something, as many times as you want doesn't make it true. I learned that as a kid, and it seems like City Council in London, Ontario, needs to learn that as well. Susan Stevenson from the London City Council, thank you so much for being here. Hope you come back with an update soon,

and I hope it's a good, I hope it's a positive one. I wish you the very best. Thank you very much, Ben. Appreciate it. All right, up next, we know where the marine land belugas aren't going to China. So the question is, where are they going? There's a wonderful place in Ontario Where all the dolphins dance in a row you know

From big to small We've got something for all Everyone loves Marine Land Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show And of course that's the jingle everybody knows But the story of what's been going on with Marine Land Is not necessarily one that everyone knows We are fortunate enough earlier this week

To be joined by Melissa Matlow who has been spearheading from the world animal protection, the what to do with the 30-some-odd belugas at Marine Land that need new homes. And she joins us again for an update. Melissa, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. So tell us what the latest is because people might have read the headline that there was a push to send a number of them to China. and what the federal government is refusing to allow that that sale to happen.

That's right. Marine land applies for permits to export 30 beluga whales. We believe they were going to go to China. That was not exactly confirmed where, but we think this one facility, Chimalong, which breeds these ads and uses them and shows. It's an entertainment park just like Marine Land. Yeah. So it was the right decision for the federal government to deny those export permits.

We got a text from a listener, Melissa. I think it's a fair question. I think because a lot of people are learning as we go and the way you learn as you ask questions. Ben, why not send belugas to China? We seem okay when they send us their pandas. We need to be working with China instead of dismissing them because people say they are always bad.

What do you say to that? Well, again, this is an entertainment park that breeds them and uses them for shows. In 2019, Canadians were very vocal in urging the government to ban the keeping a whale's. captivity. The Canadian government did just that. Sending them to China to be used for that very purpose just contradicts the spirit of that law and what Canadians wanted. Okay. So, you know, when you were on the show last time, you sort of made me aware, and therefore I have to assume a lot of people learned at the same time, of these preserves, there's one of them

is sort of off the coast of Nova Scotia. And so, so reminder. our listeners about what that resource is and how perhaps marine land could avail themselves of that service? Yes, yes. There is a 100-acre site in Port Hilford, Nova Scotia. It would be 150 times bigger than the largest tank in an aquarium. It could take some of these beluga whales. It would be a gold standard facility and animal welfare, an accredited sanctuary.

The site in Nova Scotia was selected in. in 2020 after looking at more than 100 different sites around the world. They've done environmental assessments. They are still waiting for a lease from the Nova Scotia government. Oh, okay. The Nova Scotia government wants unanimous consent from property owners. There is consent from many property owners. Indigenous communities in the area have been consulted.

The Nova Scotia government doesn't need unanimous consent. They can do this, and Premier 4 can make it. happen by working with Premier Houston. That's what's standing in the way. Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to figure out. Okay, so who takes the lead on this? So this would be a Ford to Houston conversation that would need to happen. Could our environment minister federally help shepherd this along? Absolutely. I think all levels of government need to work together on this.

But I'm afraid they're passing the buck. We see this all the time. They need to work together. I think Minister Thompson, the fisheries minister should be at the table working with Premier Ford and the solicitor general Michael Kursner and Premier Houston and his Minister of Natural Resources. Melissa, what sort of timeline are we working on? I can't imagine that whatever, however these belugas are being treated today is optimal for their health. It's not. And that's why we've heard rumors that Marine Land at one point wanted to create a sanctuary on site. Let's call it what it is. It'd be a hospice. That might be the intermediate quick solution right now is, you know,

I think the Ontario government has the powers to seize the animals on site and have independent experts take care of the animals and the ones that could survive until the sanctuary are ready, we'll have a better chance, a second chance at a much better life. And that's probably the way to go. Yeah, Melissa, I don't understand, you know, when somebody is mistreating their pet, somebody calls the city and the city comes in, And if they don't like what they see, they take the pet for the sake of the of the pet.

If we know that there has been mistreatment of these whales over the course of years, why hasn't there been some sort of seizure or forfeiture of them as property? Why hasn't there been some, why hasn't an adult come into this conversation and said, we're taking over because we can't trust you to care for these animals? Yeah, I would love to know. I do think there's higher prioritization to dogs and cats, and wild animals, unfortunately, in captivity have been treated like commodities. They're bred and sold around the world for entertainment, and it's time that stops.

Now, I remember in our last conversation, we were talking about this 100, I can't remember how big it was this, or the 100-acre park off the coast of Nova Scotia. But you said that there was a second one in Canada as well. Oh, no, there are initiatives to build seaside sanctuaries around the world. So Puerto Rico for dolphins, there's one being developed in Italy, another one in Greece. So in other countries are grappling with this problem too. So no matter what, we should fast track the seaside sanctuary solution in Nova Scotia, if it's too late for marine lands whales, it will still be a needed home for many other whales

suffering in captivity globally. So let me ask as the campaign director of your organization, what do you do today? I summon the inspiration from someone like Dr. Goodall. Let's talk about this world icon. I just keep thinking of how hopeful she is and what she would do in this situation. She was a strong proponent of Seaside Sanctuary Solutions

and she has always seemed to have hope, which is something sometimes I struggle with. But, you know, I keep thinking back, there's three property owners that haven't consented. We can take this. We can do this. I've certainly seen other projects plow forward with much more objection than that. When you say they haven't agreed,

the property owners haven't agreed to it, are we talking expropriation of their property or simply letting them know that next to your property is going to be this new thing? I think the latter. I'm not quite sure. And this is why, like, there are numerous perspectives that need to come to the table to advise Premier Ford, Premier Houston,

and the Minister of Fisheries of what to do. But we need to share what we all know. Yeah, look this happen. And together we can. Like, there's private sector interest. Our donors would love to chip in, but we need accountability from, first of all, the industries that have profited off the backs of these animals need to pay their dues.

Yeah. This is a multi-billion dollar industry globally, not just marine land. And there, you know, we have more than 300,000. and supporters in Canada, they would love to chip in, but we need that accountability as well from the governments that allow this problem to happen. It's because of our weak animal captivity laws, particularly in Ontario, that this problem is as big as it is. Melissa, I think my humble recommendation is I think organizations like yours need to get the word out as to what the potential of this seaside preserve actually are. I'm even having a difficult time imagining

it in my head. And I don't know what the property looks like that this property owner would have an issue with. I don't know if these people rely on their access to the ocean for their work or their livelihood. But if they don't, if it's simply a view that they have, I can't imagine you wouldn't want to be able to see whales breaching every now and then. That would be a heck of a thing to have off the coast of your, off your property. Again, we don't know what we don't know. and any opportunity to inform the public as to what that potential could be if we just marshaled our resources and all start rowing in the same direction, I think could be of benefit. But this to me, Melissa, it feels so odd that we're having this conversation because this is a layup. This makes sense for everyone.

This is not a political, this is not red or blue or orange. It's black and white as in the color of these animals. I'm shocked that we have to take people by the hand and walk them to what seems to be a self-evident conclusion. But in any event, Melissa, thank you so much for joining us again. Please come back with whatever updates you have. I think this is important to everybody. And if it's not, it should be.

And we're going to do our best on this show to make sure it is. Thanks so much, Ben. Really appreciate your support. Thank you. And just a really quick, Jane Goodall, before we go to break, her institute collaborates with a lot of Canadian NGOs universities and indigenous communities on conservation research and climate change education, especially in areas like Boreal Forest Protection, Indigenous Youth Leadership, Global Biodiversity Policy.

She will be missed. Toronto's mayoral race has its first major candidate in the race. We'll talk about that next. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you so much for joining us. It is Thursday, October 2nd. All right. So in about 13 months, the city of Toronto is going to be heading to the polls.

And you'll remember we had a by-election after John Torrey resigned his position as mayor that saw Olivia Chow elected. mayor of Toronto. And not for nothing, I think one of the reasons she won was because of the crowded field on the right. She had the left sewn up and with everybody else fighting it out on the right, she strolled to victory. And a lot of people on the center, center right side of the equation are hoping that history does not repeat itself so that at the very least it is a fair fight between a vision for the city that is more progressive and a vision for the city that is, for lack of a better expression, more conservative.

And the first name that has dropped in that race on the center, center right is that of city councilor Brad Bradford. You'll remember he was one of those people who threw his name into the race last time. I did not, I don't think he cracked the top three or four, but a lot has changed since then. A lot has changed since then. I believe, honestly, he has positioned himself over the past few years as the de facto voice of, call him the leader of the opposition. We don't have that at city council, but when Olivia Chow speaks, I think a lot of people

then say, I wonder what Brad Bradford says in response to that. And because of that, I think he has built up a more influence and he's probably going to be a more formidable candidate this time. So he was on Toronto today with Greg Brady just a few hours ago. And why don't we listen to Brad, in his own words, as to why he's running? Mayor Chow's first, second, and third response to everything is raise taxes, introduce more fees, and hire more staff. And the reality is we are not seeing the results because there's not a culture of performance and accountability at City Hall.

And that starts at the top with the mayor. Yeah. I think pretty clear. Let's continue. Let's get to know the candidate a little bit. So here's the next one is to his perspective on Olivia Chow's a person. Mayor Chow is a very nice person. We have a, you know, collegial working relationship. And where there are opportunities to collaborate, I always try and do that as I do with all of my colleagues. But the reality is she hasn't been focused on the things that matter most. When we spend months and months and millions of dollars, renaming young Dundas Square, I don't think that's a top priority for a lot of Torontoians. I don't think it was a top priority for any Torontoans.

I think it was a made-up, performative move that I've satisfied, didn't scratch anybody's itch, but that's just me. What kind of mayor does Brad Bradford want to be? I will be a strong mayor.

I will be a mayor of action. I will be decisive. I think City Hall has suffered from a decade of decline. decline a decade of drift, the fact that, you know, there was very little leadership when it came to making the big tough calls. And I think that is important that we are very clear about what our priorities are and how we move them forward. So there was a poll from September 5th. That's a month ago, right? So a lot has probably changed, but this is the last poll that

we have. In a general matchup, if an election were held today, and if the candidates were Olivia Chow, John Torrey, Brad Bradford, and Anna Baylau. Olivia Chow will get 36% of the vote. John Tori would get 30%, Brad Bradford, 18, Anna Baileau 8, and undecided sits at 13. Now, a couple of things. I don't believe that Anna Baileau is going to present herself because she just recently took a job, I believe, on the housing file federally. So, by the way, congratulations to Anna.

I've spent a great deal of time with her both in person, but most recently. on Fridays we have done Think Tank with Greg Brady together So I spent a lot of time with her She's a wonderful woman She cares deeply about this city She knows a heck of a lot about housing But I think she's taking herself off the board

So you're left really With John Torrey Brad Bradford And I believe Anthony Fury Says he's going to be running as well possibly And in a head to head match In that same poll from September 5th In a head to head match Between Chow and Bradford

And this is interesting. Brad Bradford comes out on top at 42%. Olivia Chow at 40. Undecided 18%. So it's still anyone's race. But as I said, if it's one person on the left and one person on the right, that is a fight that I think a lot of Torontoians could get behind. Now, and for context, here is, here's a list of the top 10 candidates from the 2023 mayoral by election. and their vote count.

So Olivia Chow got 37% of the vote at number one. And Abilow came in at second with 32.45%. Mark Saunders got just over eight. Anthony Fury got just under five. Josh Matlow got just almost the same amount as Anthony Fury. Mitzie Hunter, just under three. Chloe Brown. And then Bradford at number eight.

He got 1.28%. So as you can see, a lot has changed for him since then. It goes from 1.28 to potentially, you know, one-on-one, 42%. Is it a lot, do you think about name recognition? Yeah, and I think he's done a lot to do that. I'll tell you, one of the things that struck me after that last election, when Olivia Chow won, I said one of the fears that the people on the right should have is that because she didn't have a full term, she will be able to look people in the eye and say, the problem isn't that I was mayor.

The problem was, I didn't get a full term. I was not able to finish everything I needed to because I did. didn't have the time that a mayor normally gets. And she can still position herself as the agent of change given the fact that she followed someone who won three terms, didn't serve out three terms in John Torrey. She can potentially say, I am the agent of change and a person like John Torrey worried to enter the race is the incumbent, right? He's that institutional candidate.

Whoever, whoever runs, I said it at the beginning of the show. I think if you have a, if you have a Brad Bradford, if you have a Fury, if you, if Mark Saunders decides to run, if John Torrey throws his hat into the ring, if all these people decide to line up on the center, center, right side of the political spectrum, they need to get together and agree on the terms of engagement. They need to say, guys, here's the cutoff date. At this date, whoever is leading in the polls on the right gets. gets to run unobstructed from the rest.

Everybody else bows out and supports the person who's running in first place. Well, it's clear, though, that the thing that Chow's going to have to overcome is the city has taken a dramatic downturn, you could argue, since 2023. I mean, that's not that long ago. Oh, I don't think you have to parse that and say you could argue. No, no, it has. It's a full stop. It has. The city is not in as good shape as it was a few years ago.

But how much is it on her? She's going to point to the feds and the lack of money, which is correct. Yeah. But then, but, you know, we can point to someone on the right needs, we need one voice on the right to point to how a difference in vision, a difference in political outlook means that certain pet projects that have been the stock and trade of Progress T.O needs to stop. And Progress Tio is that is one of these groups that. is embedded within city hall. We don't have political parties at the municipal level. And so we have these sort of political action groups.

I'm not even quite sure what you call them. And they set the pace and they get behind candidates who support their vision. And that's how it works. But I think we're seeing it in New York City with Zoran Mamdani, who's sitting at like 46% of the vote right now because he's got the left sewn up. And you've got Curtis Sliwa, the Republican nominee. and Andrew Cuomo, who's running as an independent, who are going to be fighting it out for the votes on the right.

A head to head between Cuomo and Mamdani is a fair fight. I don't know if Andrew Cuomo has what it takes to beat Mamdani all while trying, all while knowing that certain votes that could be going to him are going to go to Sliwa. I think we could see that again unless the people on the right commit to not repeating the errors of 20. But in any event, congratulations to Brad Bradford for throwing his hat in the ring. I commend anybody who positions themselves and presents themselves for public office.

Up next, why some Canadians should think twice about traveling to the U.S. Network. I'm actually on Top Chef Canada. It's super surreal being here. The search for Canada's Top Chef starts now. Let's go! Ten chefs are on a culinary quest. It tastes like fear, anxiety, all at the same time, but delicious. Only one will be crowned. It's tough.

One of the hardest things I've ever done. Two minutes! Stop Chef Canada! New Season, October 14th on Flavor Network. Stream on Stack TV.