The Ben Mulroney Show - Laying out a plan for Mark Carney to fix Canada

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Laying out a plan for Mark Carney to fix Canada with Guest: Derek Burney, Former Canadian Ambassador to the United States (1989–1993). He led the Canadian delegation in concluding negotiations of the Canada-U.S. free-trade agreement If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit PCFinancial.ca for details. The all-new, all-electric Can-Am Pulse Motorcycle is your cheat code for the city. Light, agile and stylish for all you smart commuters. Find your pulse today. Learn more at CanAmMmotorcycles.com. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for joining us on this hump day edition of the Ben Mulroney Show. The election is on our rearview mirror. The future is bright. I began, as I said yesterday yesterday in good faith. I believe that it is incumbent upon all of us to put the cynicism down,

turn it down just a little bit, and give this new government an opportunity to do something, something that they can hang their hats on and then we can judge them at that point. But there's no, there's nothing to judge them on today. They have been judged. They've been judged to the point that the people of this country have said, we trust Mark Carney and his team to lead us for a certain amount of time. They've given them a minority, a strong minority. Whether or not that holds is whether or not it becomes a majority with possibly members of the NDP

leaving that sinking ship and joining a winning team, we'll have to see. And then how the conservatives react, we'll have to see. And then how the conservatives react, who they decide to keep on as their leader, that's a conversation for another day. But we spent a lot of time focusing on Canada. I will say this, I will say this.

I found out yesterday on my way to the radio station in Ottawa, where I was for the election coverage, that Ottawa was celebrating Poutine Fest yesterday. And I have to say, I thought to myself, maybe I should stay in Ottawa for one more day. And that's not a question I've ever asked myself before. Extending a trip to Ottawa is not really in my DNA, but I would have done it for Poutine Fest.

And I tip my hat to anybody who had participated in it, either as a vendor or as an eater. Good for you, good on you. I hope it was a successful event. But yes, so we've looked at Ottawa, we've looked at the election, and now we're just gonna look south of the border because whether you like it or not,

despite what our prime minister has said, this relationship ain't going anywhere. It requires tending to and improving and growing and not ignoring. And so we've got to see, we got to get the lay of the land down there. It changes every day. Donald Trump did do something predictable.

He did congratulate Mark Carney on his election win. And according to the PMO, the prime minister's office, the both leaders agreed to meet in relatively short order and to meet as equal members of sovereign nations. That was part of the description that Mark Carney's office gave to the press. Global News added the caveat that, well, we haven't seen the readout from the Americans yet.

And I think it's fair to be dubious about the exact categorization and characterization of the call, given how the first call went as we were told, and then how it went in reality. But it's good. Like, they're getting off on a respectful first step and many more to come. Donald Trump loves stirring chaos, loves dropping bombs and grenades and telling us things are gonna go one way, forcing us down a path only to stop, pause things,

the market reacts. It's been a heck of a ride in his first 100 days. And now he's got his eyes set. You'll remember May 3rd was going to be the day of additional tariffs on the ever vital auto sector, fully integrated across our border auto sector. But now he says he's open to helping the auto sector. And to help these auto makers bring their factories home as rapidly as possible, I've just signed an executive order to give partial tariff rebates to any company that assembles

its cars right here in the US. In other words, in other words, if they can't make it in time because they have to do it here, otherwise they have it. I'm giving them a little bit of a break, right? They took in parts from all over the world. I don't want that. I want them to make their parts here. But I gave them a little bit of time. It's 15% and then 10% of the parts. So it's not so bad. Somebody would say, oh, well, that's a change in parts. It's not. It's called a little flexibility. The guys were crying. They love it. Everything's good. But just in case we can't get everything in time, we gave them a little bit. So it's 15% of the

parts and then it's 10% of the parts. We give them a little time before we slaughter them if they don't do this. Yeah, I didn't understand any of that. I didn't get any of that. I think I'm a fairly intelligent person. I didn't understand any of that. And to be honest, I would bet that most of the people working on this in Washington don't understand it either. We've said this before, we've spoken to experts. If an automotive parts company or an automotive company decided today that they were gonna move

the entire operation to the United States, five years, that's how long before you open a factory. Is he given them five years? He said a little bit of time, little bit of time. Is that does that mean five years? Because that's how long it's going to take to open up a factory in the United States. So okay, okay. I heard some people cheering. So that must mean that this is a great policy. But another day, another bit of flexibility from the president. Not a change, not an about face, not a 180. Flexibility. Yesterday was an interesting day in the White House briefing,

briefing, the White House briefing room when news got to Carolyn Levitt the the White House press secretary that Amazon had decided that Next to the price of everything on their website. They would include the cost of the tariff imposed by the Trump administration that led to the price increase and I don't know that that was a fully formed story. I don't know whether it was a rumor, but Carolyn Levitt went nuclear saying this was political and it was in bad faith.

Well Donald Trump had a conversation with Jeff Bezos yesterday and here's what he had to say. Great. Jeff Bezos was very nice. He was terrific. He solved the problem very quickly, and he did the right thing, and he's a good guy. So apparently, I don't know if it was a walk back, but I think the story was more of a rumor.

I think that the Amazon was looking at doing something like this and not even on their main website. According to the story that I read, they've got this new site, at least in the States called HAL, H-A-U-L. And I think that's their low cost competitor to say like the T-MUs of the world. And they were considering putting that on their website

to explain why the low cost wasn't as low as it could have been, but it hadn't gotten past the exploratory position, and somehow the story got out. That story. I tend to believe that this wasn't a decision that was made, but it was something that was being looked at, because for the life of me, given all the work that Jeff Bezos has done

to sort of warm up and improve his relations with Donald Trump, I don't know why he would deliberately take a stick to the hornet's nest unless he had a larger plan at play. So to me, this does sound like a misunderstanding, doesn't sound like the Jeff Bezos of 2025, maybe the Jeff Bezos of 2016, but not 2025. Donald Trump, you can say what you want about him.

There's a lot to criticize him for, but he is bar none, the most accessible president to the press, new media and traditional media. He sits for interviews with with a lot of journalists and he takes he takes questions almost anytime a microphone is shoved in his face and you got it you have to respect that whether or not you like the words that come out of his mouth he does put himself in a position to answer questions and And yesterday, ABC aired an interview in the Oval Office between Donald Trump and ABC's Terry Moran.

Didn't go as well as ABC probably would have wanted to go. Let's listen to Terry Moran and Donald Trump sparring over Canadian anger and the lack of travel that Canadians are doing in the United States. Canadians, many of them are really angry, furious, Canadian anger and the lack of travel that Canadians are doing in the United States. Canadians, many of them are really angry, furious about your talk about we're going to take over Canada is going to become the 51st state. And it kind of is a piece a lot of travel is down into the United States from around

the world. It feels like there's been reputational damage. The country is doing great. Well prices are down. Not the tour. Gasoline like there's been reputational damage. The country is doing great. Well, prices are down, gasoline is down, energy is down. Tourism is going to be way up. When you see the numbers, the tourism is way up. Now Canada, oh, shit, tourism is doing very well. We're doing very well. We're doing very well. When you see the real numbers come out in about in six months

from now, when you see the numbers. Yeah, okay. Tourism is doing great. The numbers when they come on six months. I mean, that's I know for a fact that Vegas is a ghost town and Canadians aren't going to Las Vegas. That's just one city, for example. But listen, credit to Terry Moran for going there. And you got to you got to respect Donald Trump. So as I've said, now is the time to be as constructive as we possibly can, giving good faith ideas and suggestions to this new government as they try to find their footing and they try to work on behalf of all Canadians. I am not going to present myself as a stumbling block.

As a matter of fact, I would like to facilitate those good ideas getting to the people who need to hear them. And our latest guest, who is a great friend and knew my father very, very well, Derek Burney, he was the former Canadian ambassador to the US, and he led the Canadian delegation in concluding negotiations on the Canada-US free trade agreement. This guy knows a thing or two about a thing or two, and he, along with another very well-respected man

who was also the Canadian ambassador to the United States, Raymond Chrétien, got together and put a piece together in the National Post entitled, A 10-Point Plan for the Election Winner to Fix Canada. So here to break it down is Ambassador Bernie. Mr. Bernie, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Brian. Good to be with you. So I love that the topic is a 10-point plan for the election winner. This is not a political

statement. This is the view from two people who know a thing or two about the domain that they are talking about. Yeah, well, I think the government faces two huge challenges. And just to be summarized, the 10-point plan we gave, one is to obviously manage tactfully but firmly relations with the United States under Donald Trump. And that's a big priority. But the more important one in our view is to fix the Canadian economy. Yes.

It's been languishing for more than a decade in terms of performance and productivity. And so what we've advocated in essence is that the economic policy framework on taxes, on regulations, on investment initiatives, and the project approval processes have to be revamped in order to build a more competitive Canada. And we have to keep the needs of small and medium sized businesses upfront. That's right. Sorry. Go ahead, sir.

Well, I was just going to add that, you know, first and foremost, we have to remove all the impediments to the development of our huge energy and natural resource products and expedite permitting of facilities that would support exports to receptive markets in Europe and Asia and I could articulate more on that but basically this is what has been hamstringing our economic performance over the last decade. If we don't fix that we're going to languish even more performance over the last decade. If we don't fix that, we're going to languish even more poorly for the next decade in our opinion. Prime Minister Carney stated that he intends to bring down the vast majority of inter-provincial trade barriers along with the help of the provinces by Canada Day. Do you see that as a feasible,

realistic goal? Given how long it's gone, I gave a more charitable six month deadline. But I also put a stick with it. And that is the provinces either shape up within six months to remove all the internal trade barriers, which they've talked about for decades, or they would face a reduction in federal grants. That puts some that puts some teeth in it, Ben, and I think that's what needed, because it's like herding cats to try to get the 10 Canadian premiers to agree on anything. Well, that's right.

They're all going to say they agree in principle, but they're going to say, oh, of course we agree and we want to bring down every trade barrier, but not this one thing that matters to us, and then that gives license to the next guy and the next guy Well, that's right. Everybody will want an exemption. Yeah, you end up with a rabbit hole. Yeah now the fact that this comes from two former Canadian ambassadors to the United States that were appointed by Prime ministers from two different parties. It means this should carry a lot of weight Especially as it relates to near the end of your of your ten points You start talking about the the need to rebuild the Canadian

Relationship with the United States I I wasn't very charitable to Prime Minister Carney on the election campaign when he talked Rit lards that the relationship is over and this is what the Americans want I thought it was I thought it was a two negative of a tone and I thought too fatalistic and I also didn't think he had a mandate to say it was over, given how much hard work Jean-Claude Chrétien and Prime Minister Mulroney and Harper put into tending to that relationship. But now that the election's over, I hope he takes a more optimistic view, a more bullish view, on a future Canada-U.S. relationship. And you say it definitely does need attention.

Yes, but I would add to that a realistic view. I mean, we can't erase the fact that the U.S. is and will be our most dominant trade partner going forward. And it's the cornerstone of whatever we hope to achieve in terms of foreign policy. But that doesn't prevent us from being very firm, very cautious, but very firm in trying to get make some sense out of what I call Trump tariffs, tariff mania. Yeah. Uh, you know, he changes his position on tariffs every day. Oh, no, Mr. Bernie, he doesn't change his mind. He's demonstrating flexibility. That's what he tells us. It's the art of the deal, Ben. Yeah.

I love that you move beyond the economics of it and into the importance of Canada having a military, a strong military with which we can then promote Canadian values around the world. Talk to us about that point in your 10-point plan. Well, the one legitimate grievance the Americans have about us is that we have been lax in military spending. You know, the last prime minister who met our 2% NATO commitment was your father. It hasn't been met since 1993. And that's a disgrace. It dishonors the proud military tradition Canada has. But Mr. Bernie, even when we weren't hitting 2%, we still were able to live up more or

less to the commitments that we made. We were able to promote Canadian values by way of military force around the world. When called upon, we could answer. It's not just that we're not spending the 2%, it's that the way we're spending it is not optimal. That's absolutely true. And the biggest weakness is in the Arctic, where we face competition that we didn't face

10 years ago or 20 years ago. We now face real competition from China and Russia in the Arctic. That's our Arctic. And if we can't protect that, we don't have the and Russia in the Arctic. That's our Arctic. And if we can't protect that, we don't have the right to run the country. Yeah. And then from that... We even suggested, Ben, a way of paying for the increases. We want to double the size. We want to double the expenditure. But what we suggest as one way of getting there is

to reduce the public service in Canada, which grew 40% over the last 10 years. And especially at the senior level, it wouldn't achieve the total goal, but it would show the right spirit in terms of how government should be spending its money. Well, it seems to me, I mean, listen, those priorities that you list, those don't surprise me coming from somebody from the center center right of the political spectrum. And it doesn't surprise me coming from somebody who was appointed under,

I'd sort of call it the Kretzian liberals. Mark Carney has a task ahead of himself to demonstrate that he is not representative of the 10 years of Trudeau liberal rule. And if he were to accept these 10 points and try to govern according to them, that would go a long way to showing people that he has tacked his party far more to the center.

Wouldn't you agree? Absolutely. And I would have suggested as well that if we had a minority government, I guess it's not very clear what that minority is going to be yet. One thing you should consider is a formal coalition with the conservatives. So we have a genuine national unity government in Canada that could achieve a better outcome with the United States, number one, but it could also fix our problems without the nagging

of the, you know, but it could also fix our problems without the nagging of the competition between parties. I mean, at least the splinter parties had been neutralized, but they shouldn't have the whip hand in a minority government. I think they should at least consider a coalition with the conservatives. I think it's interesting that you bring that up because I brought up that goal. Wouldn't it be a laudable goal to try to achieve that if this is in fact the crisis of our lifetime that Mark Carney got elected on,

then wouldn't it behoove him to at least strive to find three or four key policies that he could bring the conservatives along with, get them to co-sign it. That would represent over 80% of the electorate. And I think, yes, Mark Carney would look like he's doing things differently. The Conservatives would be able to reskin themselves from a tonal perspective

as more willing to work with as opposed to break down. I think it would be fantastic. I wish we could talk more, Mr. Bernie, but thank you so much. It's a tremendous point. It's in the National Post. A 10-point plan for the election winner to fix Canada, and I hope to talk to you again soon Thanks, Ben Want to transform your space and your Sundays well home network is giving you the chance to love your home with $15,000 there can only be one winner tune in to renovation resort Renovation Resort every Sunday and look for the code word during the show.

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