The Ben Mulroney Show - Mark Carney is channeling his inner Donald Trump

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Mark Carney is channeling his inner Donald Trump with Guest: Franco Terrazzano, Federal Director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation -Canada’s new housing minister doesn’t think prices need to come down with Guest: Eric Lombardi, Founder and president of More Neighbours Toronto, a volunteer organization committed to ending the housing crisis If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

cast your memories back to just just a few weeks ago when we were in the heart of an election campaign we were told that this was the most consequential election of our lives we were in the crisis of our lifetime the economic imperative of this election dictate that we must hire if you will the smartest the biggest brain in the war in the room the guy who steered us through myriad problems and crises over the course of his career. That he was going to be the adult in the room that was going to restore fiscal responsibility and economic sanity to a country gone crazy. And then we learned yesterday after the first

cabinet meeting of this new government that was elected on this bargain, that there's no plan to release a budget this year. We're going to get a fall economic update in the fall. No need for a budget. Why have a budget? So to talk about that and a few other issues that came out of yesterday, we're joined now by Franco Tarrazano, the federal director of the Canadian

Taxpayers Federation. Franco, welcome to the show. Well, I mean, look, you're exactly right. I mean, that was Carney's whole image to Canadians, right? He's supposed to be the credible numbers guy. But here's the thing, right? You don't have a shred of credibility on the finances if you can't even bother to put together a budget. And look, Canadians have every reason to be worried about the state of our national finances, right?

The government doubled the debt in less than a decade. Interest charges on the debt, blowing a $1 billion hole in the budget every single week. Carney's election platform wanted to add hundreds of billions of dollars of new debt. So look, Ben, I'm worried Canadians are worried and Canadians have every right to be worried. And Carney is answering Canadians concerns with a shrug. Yeah. Well, something tells me though, when I saw that as a guy, the finances, he must have opened up the books and taken a look and realized I need time to massage these numbers. I need time to spin this stuff. I can't like a budget right now would show people just how bad the mismanagement runs.

Well, you know, Carney is the one who decided to become the Prime Minister, right? Like if you want the job, then number one, you have to be at least transparent and, you know, available to be accountable by Canadians. And a budget every year is really the biggest opportunity Canadians have to really know where the state of the finances are and to actually hold the government spending plans accountable. But also, hey Ben, let's just be really practical about this, right? Because in the upcoming weeks and months, our members of parliament, our elected representatives, are going to have to vote on spending and taxes. Well, how are they going to know and be able to make an informed decision if they have no idea where the true state of the finances are?

But hey, listen, Franco, one thing that we don't have to wait for is this middle class tax cut because we got it with the stroke of a pen yesterday. Let's listen to Mark Carney talking about that tax cut. Canadians sent a clear message that they need to see improvements in their affordability. We promised a middle-class tax cut leading to over $800 of savings

for two-income households. We're acting today on that so that by July 1st, as promised, that middle-class tax cut that will reduce taxes for the 22 million Canadians who pay federal income taxes, that that tax cut will take into effect. We're acting on affordability as we look to build out this economy. It's my pleasure on behalf of the cabinet to sign this order to deliver that tax pay. I mean you can even hear the pen, the theatrics of the pen. I've never seen that before. I've now seen it twice from this Prime Minister. I'm sorry, I've never seen it before in Canada.

I've seen it Franco before south of the border with Donald Trump and his executive orders. And I'm not the only one who sees that parallel. Even the CBC's Janice McGregor, who is loathe to criticize the liberals if she can do so with the conservatives, had this to say. But this, in essence, is Mark Carney in a very kind of Trumpian photo op.

This is the second time now that he's done the folder and, you know, pretended it's an executive order. In fact, though, if you want to cut taxes in this country, the way to do it would be through something that would go through Parliament usually. Okay, so listen, she called it as she saw it. Granted, she said it with a smile on her face. I think if Pierre Poliev had done that exact same thing, there would have been no smile. She would have referenced the Trumpian nature of it, which is accurate, but she would have

done so in a far more disparaging way. But the point to be taken there is that was a useless piece of theater. That does nothing. What does that say to you, Franco, about how seriously this government is taking very serious matters, where in this instance, they yet again prioritize pageantry over getting things done? Well, and look, that's not a difference from the Trudeau government, right? And Carney was supposed to be different from Mr. Trudeau, right? That was his whole thing. It's like,

I'm going to be different. I'm going to be credible. But I mean, look, Trudeau, he was known for making press conferences, excuse me, known for making press conferences, not known for actually getting things done. And it looks like Carney is kind of a continuation of that. And you know, as it was mentioned in the clip, like that is not how an income tax cut comes to be. No. Right? You need a form of legislation, a form of bill to actually be voted on in the House of Commons. And of course, our members of parliament are not back in the House of Commons. So there is no income tax cut as of yet. But you know, Ben, let me just make a point here. I'm sure the Canadian taxpayers federation is going to be criticizing the Carney government for years to come

on many different things. I do just want to point out that this income tax cut, when it does come, if it does come, is probably the best thing for taxpayers in Carney's entire platform, right? It will save a family hundreds of dollars every year, so it's not in yet, but it's probably the best thing that Carney has promised to do. I only have a minute left, but I really want to get you on the record with this CBC story. They're eliminating bonuses for executives and staff, but they're going to make a commensurate boost in salaries to compensate. So it's a shell game. What do you, what do you say to the listeners of this show in about 45 seconds about that

piece of news? Oh, it's a complete sleight of hand, right? Are they really ending the bonuses? No, a complete sleight of hand, right? Are they really ending the bonuses? No, not if they're increasing salaries, right? What they're doing is essentially giving the bureaucrats at the CBC, the managers, etc. built in bonuses through higher salaries. So from what I'm reading into this, they're not actually saving taxpayers money. They're not really ending the bonuses if they're giving them a salary top up. All this really is, is the CBC trying to duck accountability and try to avoid a bad press day.

Yeah, something tells me that you and the people, the federal, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation are going to stay on this story. Hey, I appreciate your time today, Franco. I look forward to talking to you again soon. Hey, thanks so much, Ben. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Chorus Radio Network. And we've got to shift our focus from one portfolio. It was finance and the prime minister before the break. Now we're talking housing. Because don't forget, yesterday was a big cabinet meeting,

the first cabinet meeting of this new Mark Carney liberal government. And after it ended, everyone came out and scrummed with the media. So we've got snippets from all sorts of people and we are going to be enjoying those tasty morsels over the course of the Ben Mulroney show. So the new housing minister, Gregor Robertson, formerly mayor of Vancouver,

already had a target on his back because when he was mayor, housing in Vancouver skyrocketed and affordability went out the window, out the window of a house most people can't own. And so yesterday he was scrumming with the media and he said something that will play for you right now that set off a firestorm. Now I think that we need to deliver more supply, make sure the market is stable, it's a huge part of our economy. We need to deliver more supply uh... make sure the market is stable the delivering more affordable housing the canada has not been building affordable housing

since the nineties and created a huge shortage across canada that's that's where the big need is right now and i'm i'm uh... very encouraged that the prime minister uh... and our commitment right now in government is is the double construction I'm very encouraged that the Prime Minister and our commitment right now in government is the double construction and focus on the affordable side.

All right, not for nothing. If the government hasn't been building a full or affordable housing since the 90s, who's been in power for most of that time? Answer that question and you'll know my opinion. But that's neither here nor there. One of the people who did react yesterday to that comment and to much more is my next guest, Eric Lombardi.

He's the founder and president of More Neighbors Toronto. It's a volunteer organization committed to ending the housing crisis. Eric, welcome to the show. Hey, Ben. Thank you for having me on. Okay. So yeah, a lot of people taking issue with this binary choice seemingly by the new housing minister between lowering the cost of housing and building more

affordable housing. How do you see it? So I think there is some degree of, you know, luxury opinions that has governed Canada when it comes to housing. There's this perception that, oh, well, you can just build more affordable housing. And, you know, that will be subsidized by the government. and if it actually works there'll be no impact to other people's equity. Yeah. And that's actually just not how economics works right. So if you're building more supply both in the private market and through whatever government program. Yeah. The goal of that new supply is to lower the price floor of new housing which means you're shifting demand from buying existing housing to new housing, which means you will also lower the price

of existing housing. There is no way to achieve housing affordability in Canada while preserving existing housing prices. It just, the math does not math. The math doesn't math. Now, Eric, yeah. The housing minister doesn't seem to get that. So like I said, I'm trying in this new phase after the election, not to be the old guy screaming at clouds, right? I wanna make sure that I have,

if I'm criticizing, I wanna be criticizing for valid reasons. But you know, words do matter as well. Like there's been no action taken on this file yet. So it's not like we can look to a policy change and say that was idiotic. But given the fact that Gregor Roberts comes from Vancouver where they've had a terrible time trying to wrestle

with affordability, and he said this on day one, do you think that bodes well for the housing file, at least at the federal level? It definitely gives me pause. And I think what gives me even more pause was his follow up to the reaction, which he basically tweeted about how successful he was in building affordable housing in Vancouver in that time. And when people brought up this contradiction, he basically doubled down on the contradiction saying that they're not looking to bring down existing homeless prices, but they're going to be focused on delivering much more affordable housing. And it was like, did you get nothing?

Right? Like, and, you know, I think the other thing that was, you know, a bit shocking for people as well, you know, I won't comment on, you know, how tax-fully he managed it, but, you know, I'd say Nate Erickson-Smith was actually a fairly popular minister for that role. And for those who had spoken with him and worked with him in that short period of time, his demonstration of understanding of the issue was really quite strong. And so to have him replaced by a former Vancouver mayor with a pretty poor track record who's already kind of going back to the, you know, 2018 version of, you know, liberal attitudes about housing really does feel like a step backwards. And yes, you know, the prime minister has an agenda that they set out in their

platform, but it is actually important that the minister responsible for the portfolio has, in my opinion, a fundamental understanding of what the challenges they're trying to solve for our. And that's not very clear. To me that that it does not seem like that's true. So let's go down the rabbit hole, Eric. Let's assume that this minister has blinders on and will pursue policies in line with what he said yesterday, right? And the vision that he wants to enact is what he described yesterday. What does the future look like if that's the policy moving forward? You know, I think on housing,

there are really two paths forward, but either way we need to be honest about what that path is. Path one is, you know, deliberate action to build enough supply that prices come down. This means that people's expectations to the equity value of their home is going to need to come down.

And that means we need to also talk about solutions to the people who are frankly left holding a bag that we are creating deliberately through government policy. The second path is we want to see how a stable housing market, which means prices aren't going to come down. And that means everyone who has been shut out by the dramatic escalation in costs needs help. Right. And if we're not able to actually say what the goals are reality based, we're not going

to have the conversation about how to deal with the fallout for those who are most impacted by it. And that's actually what scares me the most is that we have this ambiguity in what the actual goal of the pack board is. Yeah, I don't want to be alarmist, but is it possible that things you know, this terrible situation that we're living in and this terrible lack of supply and inaccessibility and insecurity, could it get worse? Of course it could get worse. I mean, in my mind, right, and I think we don't talk about this enough,

the difference between a developed country and a prosperous one and a developing country is the quality of housing that local incomes can buy you. And to the extent that we've seen a major deterioration in what material wellbeing can be afforded at typical incomes in Canada, is actually a sign of like backwards development. And so we don't even really have the right attitude

towards what goals for housing should be, which is on an ongoing basis to raise the living standards of the people living in Canada, in my opinion. Yeah. And so, you know, that goal is diametrically opposed to the high costs of housing. And so there needs to be an attitude shift. And if we don't see that, what we're going to see happen to our economy in the near term is you know what I would refer to as the the utilization of our economy, which means if you're born to a

wealthy family, you know, Toronto, Vancouver will still be, you know, decent cities for you to live in, will have, you know, a service class of relatively poor, materially people who serve a relatively wealthy property-owning class in perpetuity. But over time, that will hollow out our economy. Talent and people will move to jurisdictions that reward them better for the incomes that they make in terms of their material well-being, and we'll all suffer in the end. Well, yeah, and you know, I wish I could say I haven't heard that before, but the fact is we heard it during the election campaign when the government released its own worst-case scenario of what Canada could look like in the future.

And you're describing something very similar to that. Eric, I want to thank you so much for joining us. Housing is gonna be a very important conversation here on the Ben Maloney Show for the duration of this show. So I hope you'll join us again soon. Of course, thank you so much, Ben.