The Ben Mulroney Show - Mark Carney's response to Button-Gate has not been good enough

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

Guests and Topics: -Mark Carney's response to Button-Gate has not been good enough with Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! https://globalnews.ca/national/program/the-ben-mulroney-show Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Tuesday edition of the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you for listening wherever we may find you at all parts across the world, across the country. Thank you so much for spending a little bit of your day with us. When Donald Trump announced his tariffs, the 25% auto tariffs on March 27th, he described them as permanent. And so I hear today that he may temporarily exempt the auto industry from the tariffs that he previously imposed, that that makes me that gives me whiplash.

As a matter of fact, a number of people are saying we should we should be fitted for a neck brace for the amount of whiplash we're getting from this administration. We don't know what comes from one day to the next. Very hard to make investments in any sector if you don't know how much things are going to cost. But now he's saying that in order to give carmakers a time to adjust their supply chains, he may give them a reprieve temporarily. And he said he said he's he doesn't change his mind, but he's flexible. That's what Donald Trump says to explain his ability to pivot and reverse course and have it make sense in his own mind. Trump told reporters in the Oval Office, I'm looking at something to help some of the car companies with it. He said that automo, automo, excuse me, automakers needed time to relocate production

from Canada, Mexico and other places, quote, and they need a little bit of time, because they're going to make them here, but they need a little bit of time. So I'm talking about things like that. Now, all of that was always true. If anybody want to relocate, they can't do it overnight, you can't flip a switch and all of a sudden sudden your production in one country can move to another. I've spoken with enough automotive experts on this show to know that the minimum amount of time to move an entire factory that makes, say, Ford F-150s from Canada into the States would take five years. That's what it's going to take. Any change to the supply chain and where these cars come from

is gonna happen after Donald Trump leaves office. That's assuming he leaves. And so when he says that, that's not to me a reason that makes any sense because that was always the case. But I think what's happening is he's seeing the paralysis in the automotive sector due to these tariffs, and he's looking for an off-ramp. And if he can justify it this way, that's what he's going to do. But that also is not new. We've seen him do that before. That being said, there is apparently some movement from Canada and Mexico

to the United States as it relates to car production. Honda is considering switching some car production from Mexico and Canada to the United States aiming for 90% of the cars sold in that country to be made locally. And that is in response to new tariffs. That's according to the Nikkei newspaper. You'll know that Honda is Japan's second biggest automaker by sales and it plans to

increase U.S. vehicle production by as much as 30 percent over two to three years in response to U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to levy that 25% tariff on imported vehicles. So look, if you look at it through this lens, this is assuming that what they're considering becomes reality, this is a victory for Trump's tariff play. Can't look at it any other way. They may not like it, we may not like how it's getting done, but the end result is he's getting them to do

what he wants them to do. And that is to our detriment. It would be nice if we had people in Ottawa who could respond in kind to make it more attractive for carmakers to stay in Canada. But that sadly is not the reality that we're living with. Yesterday the internet was ablaze, as was this show with what I think is the appropriate level of outrage

when it was uncovered by the CBC that liberal staffers from the liberal election campaign war room went to a conservative convention in Ottawa last week and disseminated misinformation, trying to falsely link the conservatives at that event to Trump style election, Trump style politics by strewing buttons, lapel buttons all over the place

with words like stop the steal, wexit, highlighting division within the party by suggesting that one person at the top of the campaign should be replaced by another. And the outrage is real, the moral failing of the liberal party is real, and heads should have rolled. However, Mark Carney has shown yet again that we don't yet know what line one needs to cross in the liberal camp that would have you sent into the political hinterland. We saw with Paul Chang, nothing he could do was enough to have him dropped as a candidate he left on his own. And now we find out that that this is totally unacceptable to Mark Carney, however, dot dot dot. Look, this is totally unacceptable, to be absolutely clear. And I, on behalf of my campaign, I'm, I was unaware of this behavior, but on behalf of

my campaign, I apologize for it unreserved. I've made it absolutely clear to my campaign that this behavior or anything approximating it or in that, in that spirit is, is unacceptable, cannot happen, cannot happen again. But he didn't, but he didn't fire them. They got reassigned to somewhere else in the campaign. And I got to wonder why, because Warren Kinsella, who knows a thing or two about war rooms and getting pretty down in the mud

in order to fight a campaign, like he knows how to get nasty if he needs to. He said that in any war room that he's ever been in, if this had happened, these guys would have been turfed immediately. So it begs the question, why weren't these guys fired? And I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if they were fired,

if they were cut loose from the campaign, these guys may give an interview and explain who else knew and what the direction was. Maybe this goes higher than these staffers who may or may not have gotten carried away. I think it's right for me to speculate because they've demonstrated that they,

there's no depth to which they won't stoop in order to win this election. So I get to speculate. I get to give them the onus of responsibility is on them to prove they didn't do it. Not the other way around. They don't get the benefit of the doubt from me anymore. And here's Lisa Raitt of the conservative party explaining on the CBC why this is such an issue that we that a real problem, why this is a real problem for sure. And it was very nefarious. I don't think it was innocent at all. I mean,

I looked up to see what the other buttons were that were out there. I mean, we've done button competitions in the past, but it's usually mocking people. It's not about actively seeking to draw attention to an issue to make it sound more Trumpy than what they are. So for example, Lock Justin up was one of them. Wegs it now, make Canada great again. I mean, what is this crap? They should absolutely be off the campaign. They're lucky they're not getting charged.

They should be talked about whether or not they're spreading disinformation by this committee in the House of Commons or by this committee of bureaucrats. I mean, this is absolutely outrageous. And for us to tut-tut it away as, oh, well, you know, kids are being kids. The other part, David, that really bugs me,

I'm on a roll now. The other part that really bugs me about this whole thing is the hubris and the arrogance of bragging about it and not giving a damn. Like, do they think they're that far ahead in the polls? That it's not that terrible to talk about out loud that they're going to get away with it. This is corrosive stuff. This is corrosive stuff and it needs to stick around until until these people are held to

account like they've been reassigned. That's that's no punishment at all. What does that say about how the Liberal Party and how the war room and how the prime minister view what you did if they he did not punish you to the fullest extent of his power. That means he doesn't think this is the worst thing you can do. Think about that. This is the definition of misinformation by trying to convince people that conservatives are something they are not and not by using fact not even by using creative wordplay.

You are outright lying about them trying to create a false reality. And you have not been fired, which means Mark Carney doesn't think this is the worst thing the liberals can do. My goodness, what is the worst thing they're capable of? Only time will tell. Join now by my good

friend and a great friend of the Ben Mulroney show Regan Watts. He's the founder of Fratton Park Inc. He's also a former senior aide to the Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty. And we're going to talk about the where we stand today in the election campaign. Welcome to the show, Regan. Bonjour mon chum. Bonjour mon chum. All right. So listen, we've been talking about button gate. I don't think it's going away. I don't think

the punishment fit the crime Mark Carney did apologize on behalf of his campaign. This is what he had to say Look, this is totally unacceptable to be absolutely clear and I On behalf of my campaign. I'm I was unaware of this behavior, but on behalf of my campaign I I apologize for it unreservedly but on behalf of my campaign, I apologize for it unreserved. I've made it absolutely clear to my campaign that this behavior, anything approximating it or in that spirit is unacceptable, cannot happen, cannot happen again.

I mean, Regan, to me, this behavior is so corrosive to our democracy and to the free exchange of ideas that the fact that they weren't fired tells me that this is not the worst thing they could possibly do. And this is not the basement, as far as Mark Carney is concerned, with the behavior of his staffers. How do you see it? There's a couple of things in your comments there, Ben, that I think are worth discussing. First is, I actually believe Mr. Carney when he says he has

no idea or didn't know anything about this. I think that's probably true. The response is what really caused me to pause because Mr. Carney has now been met for a second time with a serious story. Remember there was a discussion earlier in the campaign about the candidate who had ties to the Chinese government and wanting to turn over his opponent. And he let that story in the liberal campaign, let that story run for about five days. Yeah. Um, Buttongate could have been a one day story if the liberal party had, had issued a statement, uh, uh, clearly, um, uh, denouncing the actions and terminating the employment of those who are responsible. They didn't do that. And now we're on day three of a story that shows to me that political management is something the liberals are still struggling with. And I can't quite figure out why.

But the more important point here, Ben, is the liberal government, when they were during their time in office, have presented and passed legislation in the House of Commons that your listeners will know prohibit us from sharing news on Instagram and on Facebook. Those links have been barred. This is a government that took disinformation seriously. They said that many, many times, yet they are themselves guilty of disinformation when liberal party staffers are getting up to these types of antics. And so for me, it's a really strange one. I don't understand it. It's poor political management. And it also strikes me that because nobody was fired, perhaps it was more senior people on the campaign who were involved.

Well, you know, this this could have been a net positive for the conservatives. They could have had a great day because of it. They could made a lot of hay out of it. They assume the moral high ground. And then the Premier of Ontario sort of poos that and comes out defending his campaign manager. You'll remember one of the buttons highlighted a schism within the party where some people were suggesting the campaign manager, Jenny Byrne, should be replaced with Cory Tenayk, who ran three successful campaigns for Ontario premier Doug Ford. And so Doug Ford came out to defend his campaign manager who criticized and has been very outspoken over not just Pierre Poliev, but how his campaign is run.

Let's listen to what Doug Ford had to say. As for Corey, I've said right from day one, he's tough as nails, but he's the best campaign manager in the country. And to be very frank, if Corey was running that campaign, I don't think Mr. Poliev would be in the position he's in right now, but there's still a lot of time left.

We still have debates. At the end of the day, the people will decide which way they want this country to move forward. But sometimes the truth hurts. Yeah, you got to make sense of this for me. I've got a lot of time for Doug Ford. He's always been a very nice guy. I supported him. I've heard

Pierre Poliev promise that under a conservative government, he'd open up the Ring of Fire, build a road within six months, allow Ontario to legitimately, finally take control of the Ring of Fire and the critical minerals therein. It makes sense of this for me. Well, it's unfortunate, both Mr. Tenank's comments and Mr. Ford's yesterday. And it's a distraction. I personally don't like it when political parties are airing their grievances in public because the comments are distracting media from covering more important things. Mr. Poliev, his raison d'être, his reason for serving in office is to be a servant for

the people of Canada. And sadly, unfortunately, and Mr. Ford's comments yesterday, added fuel to this, we're spending time discussing personalities and opinions of people who either are not elected at the federal level or campaign backroom folks, who most Canadians couldn't pick out of a lineup. So I think it's unfortunate. Obviously, there's some there's some history there, but it should not distract from the real questions of this campaign. All right, well, let's move on. So Darryl Bricker is a pollster with Ipsos.

And he recently tweeted that the reason the federal race is tightening is because anxiety related to Donald Trump and Canada have eased a bit, has shifted voter focus back to affordability and other economic issues that favor the conservatives, also bring liberal record back into discussion which also favors the conservatives now that the race may have tightened but that doesn't mean it's over by any stretch of the imagination. Do you agree with what Darryl Bricker says?

I think Mr. Bricker is a good bolster and Ipsos are a reputable outlet. I don't know if I agree that it's tightening because of anxiety to Trump being eased. You were seeing some movement within the margin of error than in all of the polls, but the liberals are still clearly ahead. This is a race that features two thoroughbreds, which is the Conservative Party of Canada and the Liberal Party of Canada, and three donkeys known as the N MVP, the Bacquet d'Equat and the green. And in a two horse race with donkeys, you know, the the vote is is coalescing and consolidating. And, you know, I said to a

number of people this week, in my observations that we are you wrote a memo, you wrote a memo, right? I did. Yeah, then why don't you give me the key points? Well, look, I see that consolidation is real. Four out of five Canadians are choosing either liberals or conservatives and the donkeys are picking up the rest. The liberal lead is holding, at least in the polls that we're seeing. And Atlantic Canada, in my view, is very much locked in for the liberals. And this is now down to a dogfight in Ontario and Quebec. But the reason the liberals are ahead and make no mistake is because the NDP are anemic and flaccid. Mr. Polievin, there was another poll today from Nanos that showed the

Conservative Party at 39%. That is higher and a better result if the election were held today than Stephen Harper had in 2011 when he won his majority government. The problem is Stephen Harper had the NDP at 25% in Ontario and Jagmeet Singh is struggling to get to 8%. The last thing that I think people need to remember at this stage of the game, Ben, is that the debates are coming up, but they will matter if there's a breakout moment. If there's no breakout moment, the low number of undecided voters, I think there's something like 10% or 15% of Canadians are still to make up their mind. sided voters. I think there's something like 10 or 15% of Canadians are still to make up their mind. There's no breakup moment. It will make persuading them if you're one of the trailing parties even harder. So it's a tough position for the conservatives to be in. But as I say, at 39%

nationally, that's better than any result we've had since 1988 when some guy named O'Rourke won a majority government in that election. Finally, can you make heads or tails of the liberal policy on pipelines? It feels like anytime Mark Carney is given an opportunity to explain his vision for turning candidate into a natural resource superpower, we get something different. Look, I struggle with Mr. Carney's comments on this because I think the consensus in the country then and whether your listeners are in Atlanta, Canada, Quebec, Ontario or Western Canada, then the attitude of Canadians towards pipelines is aggressively shifting towards

building more of them, not less. And I can't quite figure out why Mr. Carney hasn't truly capitalized on that. I mean, Liberal Party has done its best to appropriate much of the conservative platform. That much is clear. They've tried to turn this election into personalities and eliminate issue differences. The one area where there is still differences are pipelines.

And for me, Mr. Poliev has to continue to lead on that issue if he wants to give himself a chance to win. And I think centrist voters, liberal voters who are open to voting conservative, let's call them economic liberals, could be persuaded by that argument because there is no doubt, thanks to President Trump and other world issues, that we need more pipelines for this country. And Mr. Carney being indecisive, shall we say, certainly isn't helping him and I think creates an opportunity for Mr. Paul Yeo.

Regan Watts, always appreciate picking your brain my friend. Thank you so much and I'm sure we'll talk to you probably later this week. Thanks Ben, looking forward to it. and your Sundays? Well, Home Network is giving you the chance to love your home with $15,000. There can only be one winner. Tune in to Renovation Resort every Sunday and look for the code word during the show. Then enter at homenetwork.ca watch and win for your chance to win big. Amazing! The small details are the difference between winning and losing. Watch and win with Renovation Resort on Home Network.