The Ben Mulroney Show - MP Adam Chambers on why taxpayers need corporations to pay taxes... and butter tarts!

Episode Date: March 4, 2026

If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. You're listening to the Van Mulroney Show. I love it when we have guests in studio. It makes it so much more real.

Like, I love talking to people any way I could talk to them, but sitting opposite somebody having a real conversation, is amazing and I'm so glad to have with me. The MP for Simco North, elected since 2021, Adam Chambers. Welcome to this show, my friend. And it's great to be here with you in studio. Okay, so you're advancing a bill right now

in the House of Commons, I should have said a conservative MP. That's just so you get some context. You're advancing a bill that would force the federal government to publicly disclose large corporate tax debt right-offs of over a million bucks. make that relevant to somebody who's just trying to drive their kids home from school right now.

Sure. So every year, the federal government writes off debts that are owing to it by corporations. For the last number of years, that number has been climbing substantially. A couple of years ago, it was $7 billion. Last year, it was well over $5 billion. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. You're telling me that there are taxes due to,

to the government that they are lawfully owed to the tune of how much? Well, last year was over $5 billion that were written off. And that money should be going into our coffers, and they are just not, and they're writing it off, they're not pursuing it, they're not going after, they're not collecting, they're just saying, eh, not worth it, and they're writing it off. What is the justification for that? Well, there are a number of reasons why a debt could be written off. It could be a bankruptcy.

It could be... So there are valid reasons. Absolutely. It could also be a fraud perpetrated on the government. You know, people filing fake tax returns, their schemes to defraud the government out of taxes owing. And so the government will decide it may choose to no longer pursue that debt. And this is all done in secret. So, for example, 10 corporations owed $1.1 billion in taxes that this is all done in secret.

they had written off just two years ago. And we started asking, well, tell us more about these corporations. Like, who are they? Why were they written off? And the answer from the government is, well, we can't tell you. It's privacy. I'm sorry, but I think if you owe the government hundreds of millions of dollars and your corporation and you choose not to pay, I think the public deserves to know who they are. Name and shame. I mean, 1.1 billion could almost pay for the CBC for a year. Not quite, but almost. But no, and that's money that could go into social services. And more importantly, you're treating those corporations differently than you would treat the everyday person. The people who are listening to this show right now just trying to get their kids home.

Absolutely. Let's just say you forget to pay the CRA or you file your taxes late and you owe $200. Well, you're going to get a letter in the mail and the interest clock started running when you owed that money in the first place. And they will pursue you until the nth degree and even maybe guard. garnish your wages. So behind closed doors, someone's making a decision to stop pursuing large corporations. We think the first step is transparency and then some accountability on how we can make sure that money comes into the government coffers. As you say, there's social programs to fund or how about just cut taxes for people? That would be nice too. That would be

nice too. Talk to me about the process. Let's stay in the policy bubble for a second. Explain to the listeners the process by which somebody who's not in government can get something like this across the finish line. Sure. It's actually a really interesting process. After each election, there's a lottery drawn. Each private member, so a non-cabinet minister or not a parliamentary secretary, their name's put in a hat, and you draw a number. And if your number is high, you have a chance to have a bill voted upon that you bring forward to the House. Anyone can bring a bill forward any time, but it's that high lottery number that allows that bill to get voted upon. So I was lucky enough, I was drawn number 40.

this is the issue that I thought would have widespread public support, but also widespread support from other parties in the House of Commons. And in, give me context here. Like, is it performative that the government will listen and then just vote it down? And that's not, that's not a condemnation of the liberal government. I'm sure, you know, when conservatives are in power, they might treat bills that come from the other side of the House with a little less respect than their own. So, like, realistically, what are the chances of something like this becoming a lot of?

law? Well, I would say the chances of a bill becoming law by a private member are relatively low. For example, in the last parliament, my first time I had the chance, I advanced a bill, but I missed it becoming, going to the next step by about 11 votes. So this time I had a better chance. I said, look, I want to bring something that is just, it resonates with everybody. Every reasonable person will agree. And how could the government not agree with this? Yeah. We're literally, we want to give you, we want to give you credibility in going after and getting money that is owed to the government. Yeah, I mean, finance minister Champagne is running a deficit, double the size of Prime Minister Trudeau. I want to help him close that gap. See, maybe you don't frame it that

way if you want Champaign's help on this. Well, look, actually, I will say I've had some great conversations with all parties in the House, the NDP, the Block, and even the government. They have been collaborative and wanting to support this getting to the final stage. So I've been very appreciative, actually, of all the conversations I've had, including with the government. I'm encouraged. I think it has a real chance of succeeding. Okay, let's move to the prime minister's trip abroad. I think all things being equal, it's better to be, it's better to have good relations with a nation than bad. And we've had bad relations with China, India, and the United States for quite some time.

And it looks like the Chinese relationship is improving. and it looks like the Indian relationship is improving. Now, we can discuss the tradeoffs that maybe had to happen in order for that to happen. I'm going to live in the positive for now. However, and by the way, India said, we want to buy whatever a candidate is selling. So that's a good thing, right?

But then the Indian High Commissioner suggested to the CBC that they could help us on a particular file. You have things which we need. We have things which you need. We have things which you need. I mean, for example, simple examples. We have, you're a country of,

you're the second largest country in the world with a 40 million population, 40 million population. You need at least about 100 million population. You need people to man many of your resources. We have the capacity. We have the intellect. We have the talent. We have the resources.

So the Indian High Commissioner is suggesting that a country of 40 million people needs 60 million more. And India stands at the rest of, to fill that void for us. Thoughts? Well, maybe he's been talking to the folks in Canada that have been behind the century initiative that were promoting the same aggressive targets just a couple of years ago,

including the prime minister's new ambassador to the United States, Mark Wiseman. But I would say, I think the challenge that we've seen in this country over the last few years is a ramp, a significant ramp up. You know, we used to grow the country's population by about 1% a year. Yeah. When I was a kid, we were at 25 million. That's at that, and that number for, in my mind, we're still at 25. But the fact that we're past, we've blown past 40 is insane to me.

Well, and when you think, so 1% a year doesn't sound like very, that sounds reasonable to most people. After COVID, there was three, four years in a row where we grew the population by somewhere well over two and almost. four percent in some years. I mean, that starts to become very difficult to manage when you consider housing costs and when you consider access to services, social services like health care. So I think what we need to do is take a serious pause and a rethink of the entire system. You know, Canada used to have the envy of the world when it came to immigration systems. We had a points-based merit system that rewarded the skills that we need here to help build the economy and get people here that are going to be contributing to our society.

My intrepid producer, Mike Drillet, pointed out once, immigration is not designed to help the other country. It is designed to help Canada. Our system is designed. It's selfish. What do we need? What do we need? And how can we attract the talent to make this country stronger?

It's not about showing everybody how generous we are and how with our open arms and our open wallet we can bring in as many people as possible. That is a, that's a perversion of what it's meant to. be. And I just want to give props to the intrepid producer because he actually said something smart for once. Oh, there we're good. It's always good to help those that are helping you. Well, I would say, you know, it's important to be thankful that we live in a country that a lot of people want to come to. So that is a good thing. That means that we can be choosy on who comes now. We also have to be benevolent and we have to take in refugees as we can and those who are bona fide fleeing areas of

persecut or being persecuted for religion or their sexuality. Like we have an ability to take in individuals. But as you say, the primary objective is to make this country stronger. Yes. All right. When we come back from the break, we're continuing this conversation. But we have to get into the most serious aspect of why you're here. Butter Tarts.

That's coming up next. You know, I like to talk on this show about cultural touchstones, about things that we can rally behind and together. And I spoke of how the Premier of Ontario last week or two weeks ago let it be known that he wanted every kid in Ontario public school to take time at school to watch Olympic hockey. And when my kids ask me why, I said, because it's something that you can all do together and you can enjoy the emotional roller coaster together. And it's a reminder that we are not so different from one another, despite what a lot of people try to tell us. And so I'm sitting here with Adam Chambers. He's the MP for Simco North. And Adam, you are putting forth something in Parliament to honor, to promote national pride, to support domestic bakers, promote national pride by what honoring the butter tart?

Absolutely. I mean, we honor already in this country. We honor National Putin Day and An Imobar Day. And I think with all that's going on in the world, we need a little bit of national unity around the butter tart. And so, you know, I can't take credit for it. It's not my idea. I was reached out by a gentleman John Meisner, who a former graduate of Georgian College. And he said, listen, the butter tart was invented.

The first recipe was in the Royal Victoria cookbook in Barry in almost 1900, year 1900. the woman who submitted it, his name Mary McLeod, and he wants to honor her on April 19th. That was the day of her passing as a national butter tartary. I thought, you know what? If you get a petition, we'll get it going. And I love it. Yeah, I said, we're kind of joking about it,

but these things matter. These things matter. And acknowledging these things that have a unifying aspect to them are important to social cohesion, to national identity. I will give you a couple of hot takes. Actually, I'll give you three hot takes. You ready? Um, Nanaimo bars are too sweet.

I like them, I'll eat them, but they are too sweet. Um, I find it very funny. As much as I love my, my, my Quebec roots, I find it very precious how Quebecers are so protective and they think that they're the only people who can make a good putteen. When in fact, it's made of French fries, a very simple gravy and, uh, cheese curds that you can buy as an impulse buy at gas stations. Okay. And, and I'll say, I like. I don't require, but I do like raisins in my butter tarts. Wow, that is a, their last one is a very bold, a bold choice.

I couldn't possibly comment as a politician. You're absolutely alienated, at least half the people. As a radio host, I'm exhibiting a bravery that politicians are incapable of. I'm putting myself out on a ledge. I mean, I just disparaged like this. The best putteen in the world does come from Quebec. I concede that, but good putteen can come from anywhere. I like all the butter tarts, Ben.

Yes. Thoughts on sugar pie. Wow. You know, I'm not actually much of a sweet tooth, but I will say because Midland has the best butter tart festival going, every year, there's 50, 60,000 people. This year, there's 300,000 butter tarts are going to expect it to be brought. When is this? When is it? Absolutely.

It's June 13th, Saturday, June 13th in Midland. Do they need a judge? If you're offering to judge, I think we might be able to make that happen. Have you ever been a judge at this thing? I have been a judge. It is a commitment because you eat a lot of butter tart, but they're fantastic. I would like to be a judge. Should we cover it for the show, Intrepid producer?

Mike Drillet. Should we cover it? Should we cover the butter tart? I offered myself up as a judge for the Butter Tart Festival. I offered myself up as inside person. I'm going to be like testing. No, no, body man. I've got to try them out before because you never know.

Well, I think we can make that happen. You know, it's sponsored by Chapman's. It's been a great way to bring people together, bring people to the town of Midland. It's a fantastic experience. It's been going on for a number of years. And as I say, there's thousands of people that show up to this thing. And they will run out, you know, 300,000 butter tarts. They will run out well before the end of the day.

In our last few minutes, Adam, I'd love to get your take on, you know, the, I think, the home run after home run. And I know that might be overstating it. But really, the strategy that Pierre Poliyev has been putting forth over the past few days, communication strategy, presenting himself as a statesman in waiting, presenting a vision, a slightly alternate vision to Mark Carney's vision that he promoted at Davos and now being in the UK for his first ever international trip as a leader of the opposition. I think it's a great beginning, but it's probably going to require a lot of consistency over the next few months to make any inroads in those traditionally liberal voting blocks like Atlantic Canada, the boomers,

and the women. Well, I've been encouraged by what I've seen from Pierre, even shortly after the election and up until today. But I think what you're seeing with these couple speeches, they are, the tone is right, but they're also packed with some ideas, you know, talking about a strategic minerals reserve, but only countries that have no tariffs with Canada will be able to access that reserve.

I think that's a fantastic idea, making sure that IP that is taxpayer-funded and developed in Canada will remain in Canada. You know, if a company wants to leave Canada with the IP that was developed here with taxpayer money, well, let's make them pay it back. Yeah. I think there's just some fantastic ideas there. As you mentioned, you know, I think the tone is correct. I think it meets the moment and a willingness to collaborate with the government on areas where there's shared interest. And where, you know, we're not going to let them, we're not giving them a blank check. We're not going to let them run away with it. And we're going to hold them accountable as we should. But there are certain areas that we think we are able to work with them on, including on international trade, which is the file that I follow very closely. You know, we've been collaborating with. them and bringing their trade bills forward before the committee.

Take me behind the, oh, what's this? Pierre Pollya proposed his new Anglophone Alliance that excludes Trump's America. That's true. It's that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Kanzuk. He wants to deepen ties with those three other nations. And he proposed sort of harmonizing our regulatory bodies so that, what did he say? He said, a car part that works in London, Ontario should be. should be valid to work in London, England as well.

And a doctor who performs surgery in Sydney, Australia, should be able to perform that same surgery in Sydney, Nova Scotia. I mean, these are common sense ideas. Absolutely. You know, credential recognition is huge, especially for the healthcare sector, you know, nurses and doctors, of course. But let's also talk about, you know, competition. Canadians pay some of the highest prices for, you know,

financial services or telecoms or even airlines. I mean, why don't we look to, liberalize and compete with our Commonwealth neighbors in those sectors. And we don't have to let the big American companies come in and swamp Canadian companies. Why don't we just open up competition to our Commonwealth brothers? Take me behind the curtain a little bit because Pierre is the leader of the party, but it requires the entire party to row in the same direction. So as he unveils this new perspective on, I think, how he wants to reintroduce himself to people, Is there, was there any talk in caucus meetings about, hey, this is how we're going to approach our role in the House of Commons?

This is the tone we're going to strike. This is how we're going to deal with our colleagues that we might not agree with. Is there ever in talk like that in, just educate me on sort of the culture of a party? Sure. You know, we meet every week as a caucus. On every Wednesday morning, every party meets as a caucus. But we meet. And we have very open and very frank discussion.

as a caucus, you know, what we think is working, what we think can improve. We here have a chance to hear from the leadership team, including Pierre, about his strategy and how he thinks about framing as we move forward and the big announcements that he wants to make. And he asks us for feedback and input. And so that process allows the leader and Pierre to take all of that feedback, to digest it. He gets feedback from us. we get feedback from him on, you know, here's where we think that we should be really holding the government accountable.

And on these things, you know, how can we, we can work with them. So I think it's just, you know, that weekly meeting is an opportunity for us to let Pierre know what we're hearing back home in the riding. And that's what everybody does when they come to that meeting on Wednesdays. Adam Chambers, thank you so much for being here. And I'm going to hold you a reminder. I'm not joking. I will come be a judge at the Butter Tart Festival. Well, we're going to follow up on that, Ben.

Please. Hey, thanks so much for coming. And we're going to see if we can ban the raisins. No. Hey, if someone wants to put raisins in, they have every right to do so. And I will not judge them. I will not besmirch their hard work. My name is Mickey Fox. Friday, February 27th on Global.

I'm sheriff of Edgewater. For her, keeping the peace. Cartel's moving in. Means every investigation. People are getting threats. It's close to home. At the end of the day, I'm responsible for this town. Secrets, loyalties, and small town justice collide in the new hit

drama. I'm a down good sheriff. Sheriff Country returns Friday, February 27th on Global. Stream on Stack TV.