The Ben Mulroney Show - Nike retires the "Just do it" slogan. And positive reinforcement for students.

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

- Tony Chapman/Marketing guru - Sam Demma/Motivational Speaker   If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by the National Payroll Institute, the leader for the payroll profession in Canada, setting the standard of professional excellence, delivering critical expertise, and providing resources that over 45,000 payroll professionals rely on. Hey, thanks, son. What do I owe you? Don't worry about it. It's payday. Payday, huh? I bet you it went straight into your bank account and you didn't even check your pay stuff. My what? Your pay stuff. Back in my day, you had to wait for a physical check. Then, you had to go to the bank. Deposit it, and wait for it to clear.

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National payroll party? Precisely. Sounds like a plan, you know, just one thing. What's that? I'm choosing the music. What? And I'm sitting in the backseat. The whole way?

The whole way. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Let's be honest. We've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places. the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane. And, hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody who's actually trained to help.

That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment. After a quick questionnaire, BetterHelp does the hard work of finding someone who fits your needs. Most people get it right the first time. But if it's not a match, you can switch counselors, time at no extra cost. It's flexible, totally online, and you can hit pause whenever you need to. With over 5 million people supported to date globally, BetterHelp is now available

in Canada with a network of counselors who have expertise in a wide range of specialties. With a 4.9 out of 5 rating based on over 1.7 million client reviews, BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient, and you can switch counselors at any time for no cost. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Mulrooney. That's Better H-E-L-P.com slash Mulroney. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you so much for sticking with us on this Monday. And whether we like it or not, we are being marketed to all the time.

Whether we know it or not, we're being marketed to all the time. Some of these campaigns are phenomenal. Others fall flat. And so to make sense of them all, we're joined. by great friend of the show, Tony Chapman, host of the award-winning podcast, Chatter That Matters. Tony, welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Always a pleasure to be with you.

So this first story that we're talking about is one that actually popped up on my news feed, and I wanted you to give me your sense of it. And it's a new Coca-Cola ad or marketing campaign that they did on university campuses in the United States. Yeah, I think this is what's really interesting about this is you go to a vending machine and you pull out your Coke and you go to open it and you can't open it. And people are looking at you and going, how's that possible? And then what happens is you

realize that to open it, you have to connect with somebody else on campus. And the idea behind this obviously is that when we first show up at school, we're feeling awkward, insecure. We don't have friends. What a great way to break the ice. Yeah. I think it was a great campaign. And Coca-Cola, by and large, they tend to hit home runs with these sorts of things, don't they? Well, you know, the interesting lesson for everybody out there is because they focus on insights. They focus on a human journey.

What matters to that individual? It's not so much whether they're thirsty or are going to get them to buy, you know, Coke over Pepsi. What they're really trying to understand is what's going on in your head, your heart, your hands, what are you thinking about? And if they can slide their brand in at the right moment, this case, the first couple of days at campus, what a great way to say to at Coca-Cola, we're all about your journey for the next four years.

The first couple of days are going to be tough. Yeah. But grab a Coke with somebody you don't know, share it, talk about it. And guess what? That might become, as we all know, with university friends, one of your best friends for life. That person might be standing at your wedding card. And it started with opening a Coca-Cola on campus. To me, that's a brilliant marketing.

No, it is brilliant marketing. It's very on the nose, right? But that's that you're absolutely right. Okay, let's move on to Nike. So for the longest time, just do it has been, you know, has been part and parcel of the Nike ethos. And now they're pivoting away from Just Do It to Why Do It? Explain that one to me.

Well, let's, let me just take you back to 1988. It was originally going to be, let's do it. And that was convicted murderers, Gary Gilmore's last words. Let's do it and inspired them to go, what a great call to action. Whoa, wait, wait, wait, hold that stuff for it. Hold on. You're telling me that the big brains at Nike originally thought, hey, let's use the last words of a convicted murderer, and let's use those to launch an ad campaign.

That was their first kick at the can. Not only their first kick of the can, almost up to the moment of launching the ad they were going with it, because people wouldn't have connected it to Gary Gilmore, but they'd love what it stood for, the sense of let's go after something. And the last minute, they changed it to just do it. And the interesting thing, again, if I could take you back, that's six years after Diet Coke, turn Coca-Cola upside down with just for the taste of it. Yeah.

The word just again came back. And so now you fast forward to now and you go, well, why change something that's great? What I love about what they're doing is it's still going to remind you of just do it. But why do it really reflects, I think, the sort of Gen Z's value of purpose over performance, you know, that the sense of why. And also the fact that, you know, we're also dealing with why do it is because we're just sitting at home on our back feet. We're staring at screens. We're losing the social connection. Once again, a powerful insight in what is happening in the world,

reframed. And what I love about Nike from day one, they never talk about their waffle souls or their performance of their shoes. It's always about this matters of the heart. And why when you get out and strap on a pair of shoes, and even if you go for a walk, you're going to feel better than if you sat at home staring at that screen. Just do it as a statement.

It's a, it's bottled up, right? It's one thing. Why do it is open-ended. It's a question. It can go in so many different directions. Absolutely. And it can get into the philosophical. It can get into matters of the heart.

It can get into mental health. There's so many areas that you can take it. But ultimately, again, they go back to the LeBron dunking the basket. You know, they go back to their athletes in their roster. The other thing is interesting, we're going back into some retro, is the swoosh, which is what I always loved about Nike. An athlete just had a swoosh on it. Isn't he about the word Nike?

You know that was developed by a college student and she got paid 30 bucks for that. Oh, I know. I know. She got no residuals at all. No residuals at all. As I was researching the story, but I really like why do it because I really do think it reflects a sense of self-actualization and youth questioning society. It's almost like the 60s are coming back with a hippie movement. Like why are we chasing all the stuff in the world and losing what really matters in terms of humans within humanity?

Well, the it is never going to change. Because I remember they had one campaign where the just remained and the it remained. And then the word in the middle just kept changing. So it was just climb it, just run it, just build it. And so it's the, for me, it's not the just or the do. It's always the it. The it is the thing for them. Because the it's everything.

It can be as general as you want to be. It can be as specific as that mission that you have in your heart. All right. Just quickly on that last one, I think that Nike makes a mistake when it has to fill in the blanks. Because it says the consumer's not with me when they've got to go just climb it. So I really love the fact when they just keep it clean. Another lesson for people out there, simple is always better. Well, does that tie in to this idea of the rise of vibe marketing?

I mean, vibe marketing is about like feelings and intuition. I mean, that's as general as you can get. Well, there's so little differentiation out there anymore. I mean, tell me what the difference is between Pepsi and Coke and a blind taste test. You would never, never know. I would know. I would know. I can promise you, yeah, I got to tell you something.

I've tasted blindfolded orange crush, grape crush, and seven up. It's very hard to tell the difference. Yes, no, I get that. Sprite and seven up. I get that. But Coke and Pepsi, I can tell the difference. Blind or not. Next Monday when I'm in.

Bring it in, dude. We'll do it. Yeah. We'll do a colic test. But I tell you something, it is intuition, matters of the heart is your point of difference. And if you can get into that something that really matters, people that matter most to you and your brand belongs there, not forced there, not jam

there, belongs there. Then, my friend, you are a great person in marketing sales. All right. So, listen, I am not on TikTok, but every now and then TikTok content migrates to Instagram and to other platforms. So I get to see that stuff like a week or two after it's a thing on TikTok. And so apparently there's something called rush talk right now, as in rushing sororities. The Greek university system, it's foreign to a lot of Canadians, but, you know, it's the sororities and fraternities, and Rush is the act of sort of freshmen earning a spot in the sorority or fraternity of their choice. And it seems like sororities are going hard on promoting themselves on TikTok right now.

Yeah, you know, it was interesting to me because what always I created the magic of sororities was the scarcity. I don't know if I could, you know, but who's going to be involved? How do they select? What's the hazing process? And, you know, they're suddenly now going on TikTok and opening it up, it almost becomes Walmart versus something that seemed to be exclusive, you know, that the Greek letters and the secret societies and the handshakes and the rings and everything else that goes with it. But I guess that's just a sign of the times is that, you know, if you're not on TikTok, you're no longer relevant. But I would never lose scarcity.

And that would be my advice to somebody that was running a star. Well, yeah, I don't know that they're thinking that, I don't think they're being as savvy is that I think that there are. I mean, I've seen some of these videos and scantily dressed, you know, 20-some odd, you know, 19, 20-year-olds. I think it's as much them wanting to self-promote within within the structure of their sorority as anything else. I don't think they're thinking as far as like scarcity versus versus commercialization. I think they're thinking, hey, we're pretty girls and more people are going to see us. Yeah. You know, everybody's chasing this 15 megs of fame and the mental health crisis that goes with it because you're just, you're just,

putting out a false beauty stereotype of yourself and everything else. Everybody's got the most interesting life. And we know now with psychological studies, how damaging it is. And you're right. That's probably all they're doing is saying, now I've got another platform to show how, how beautiful we are here. And this is sad state. I mean, maybe I'm just sounding old.

No, no. I don't. I went to a university in the States had a very strong Greek system. I promise you, if TikTok had existed then, a lot of those girls would have jumped on whole hog. All right, so you're going to be in next week, and we are going to do a taste test, a blind taste test of Coca-Cola versus Pepsi. I'm going to tell you. Upside down, you can spin me around.

I'm going to get it right every single time. Just bring a $5 bill so I can go home and pay for my – pay for the soft drinks. Maybe – and we'll go from there because you're going to lose the bet. I will not, my friend. All right, Tony Chapman, really appreciate it. We'll see you next week. Okay, bye-bye. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Let's be honest, we've all shared our problems in some pretty funny places, the group chat, your barber, maybe even a stranger on a plane. And, hey, sometimes that helps. But when it comes to stuff like stress, anxiety, or relationships, it makes a big difference to talk to somebody who's actually trained to help. That's what BetterHelp is all about. They connect you with credentialed professional therapists online. And what makes them stand out is their therapist match commitment. After a quick questionnaire, BetterHelp does the hard work of finding someone. who fits your needs.

Most people get it right the first time, but if it's not a match, you can switch counselors anytime at no extra cost. It's flexible, totally online, and you can hit pause whenever you need to. With over 5 million people supported to date globally, BetterHelp is now available in Canada with a network of counselors

who have expertise in a wide range of specialties. With a 4.9 out of 5 rating based on over 1.7 million client reviews, BetterHelp makes counseling affordable and convenient. And you can switch counselors at any time for no cost. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash Mulruni. That's better, help.com slash Mulruni.

With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. I am so excited about this next segment. promised the listeners of this show, the viewers on YouTube, that I would introduce you to great Canadians doing great things. And I don't know, maybe about six months ago, I'm just

scrolling on YouTube. I'm a big fan of the shorts on YouTube. And I come across this guy who was no word of a lie, the most positive person I had encountered online in a very long time. And when I say positive, I mean authentically positive. I don't mean somebody who's putting on airs. I mean, you could hear it in his voice. You knew that he was speaking from the most authentically positive place. And the more I listened to him, the more I wanted to hear of him. And fortunately, the algorithm just kept feeding me his stuff.

And he was the guy I needed in my life at the time that I got him. And then to find out that he was from the greater Toronto area, I was like, well, goddamn, I need to have him on the Ben Mulroney show. So on that note, please welcome for the first time and hopefully not the last time, Sam Demma. Sam, welcome to the show. Ben, what a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for that kind introduction. Okay, so give our audience a little bit of your history because from what I've gleaned from the stories that you've told, that you were a competitive soccer player, you played in university, then you had an injury. Tell me about, tell me the whole story and how it got you to where you are. proud Canadian half Italian half Greek I grew up believing that one day I could be a professional soccer player pursued that dream seriously at 13 I was moved to Italy to play for a club by 17 I had a

full ride scholarship to a beautiful school and then I had three major knee injuries two surgeries scholarship fell apart spent two and a half years trying to get back on the field before making the decision to stop playing soccer very lucky that at the same time as this transaction I had an inspiring world issues teacher who taught me this lesson that a small consistent action can make a big difference, challenged us to do something with that in the community. That led to picking up pieces of garbage with a good friend of mine named Dylan on a Saturday morning basis, continued that for the next five years.

And to recruit volunteers, we started speaking at local schools to get students involved. And I fell in love with this idea of telling stories that would move people emotionally and help them build a better relationship with themselves, but also the people around. them and I've been I've now been speaking to young people across North America for the past seven years yeah yeah you go you're on the road what 200 days a year yeah yeah my my parents are not a fan yeah yeah but this but the stories that you have I mean I know that you're not like that listen I've listened to a lot of speeches that I you can tell when somebody is especially political speeches when when someone says on the on the when they're on the campaign they say I met joy and

Joy is a worker. You know they've made up joy. Joy doesn't exist. But the stories that you tell, I know that they're real. The story that you told of, you know, that connecting with the woman behind the desk at the hotel,

right? And she was from Africa and you just happened to have been in her village and you knew some of her words. Like, give us that story. Because the story of human connection is one that you tell a lot. And it's one in the world

in which we live where phones are so important. Sometimes we downplay. the need to actually connect one on one with with with with with on a human level with somebody i tell people all the time live with your antenna up meaning be aware of the things that are happening around you i got into the habit of journaling when i was 17 and and every night before i go to sleep i'll write down the things that happened that day my observations my emotions and almost all the stories i tell come from the pages of my journals this past summer not the one we're in right now but last july i had the opportunity to speak at 21 schools across six

cities in Kenya, and it was made possible by a young person named Brian who reached out to me on social media for a couple years, encouraging me to bring my message and mission to Kenya. So we finally organized this entire project, and we got there, and I realized very quickly so many beautiful things about the country of Kenya, one of which is that there is so much diversity. Within the country itself, there are 42 different tribes that all speak different languages, come from different geographical regions, and speak different languages, eat different foods and we were there during a major national protest and we didn't know this when we were getting ready to go there and every Thursday 100,000 young people would storm downtown buddy calls me one day

says guys we got to drive out of the city it's going to be very dangerous I'm going to take you to this small little rural village where I grew up called gertundu it's where you find the kikuyu people one of the 42 tribes long story short I end up bumping into a student while driving and he starts trying to have a conversation he's never seen a person who looks like me in this small little rural village. And I fell in love with this culture that I spent the next six weeks trying to learn Kikuyu. And my friends told me I'm wasting my time. It's one of 42 languages. You should have learned Swahili, the national language. And I fly home, August 25th, August 27th, I'm doing a speaking engagement in Ottawa. I'm checking

into the hotel. I walk up to the reception. Her name was Linda. I saw it in her name tag. I said, hey, Linda, is there anything that I should do while I'm in town? Any recommendations? And she said, no, I'm sorry, I don't have any recommendations. I just moved here. And I was like, no way, where did you move from? And she said, Kenya. And I was like, there's no way. I just spent six weeks there.

I fell in love with the culture, the community, the people. We went to this, you know, small little rural village called Gertundu, where they speak Kikuyu. And Linda literally starts tearing up, puts her hand over her chest, and says, Demo get Koyo, which means I'm a Kikuyu person. Yeah. And I spoke the language back and told me. her my name was kimani and she starts laughing yeah and uh anyway she calls her family from back home hangs up and essentially says if you ever come back to the country you'll always have a place

to sleep you'll always have food to eat consider yourself a new member of our family yeah it's it's it what you've what you've described is look the more the more academic way of say of of describing is like you're you're you're teaching people how important it is to network but it's more than that it's an it's an emotional it's a human network right it's not not for the sake of business it's for the sake of becoming more than what you are. And it's a beautiful story that you tell. We don't have a lot of time left. So I want to spend some time on one of the themes that comes up in a lot of the times that you speak with kids. And it's this notion of your backpack. Talk me about the backpack. How do you teach a person that the thoughts they carry impact every experience they have in their

lives? My World Issues teacher, Mr. Loudfoot, would say to us every day in class, your perception creates your reality. And I didn't really understand what that meant. What it meant was it's truly the stories we tell ourselves that dictate the emotions we experience, the actions we take, and the results we get. And so if we want to change the equation, it starts with the beliefs. I had a conversation with the young man who was struggling with his mental health. This is back during the pandemic. And he was telling me that he wanted 50,000 followers online. I asked him why. He said it was because he was being bullied. And I thought, man, I wonder how long this young person has been allowing other people's words to change the stories he's telling himself, to change the reality

he's creating. And when I thought about, you know, how can I share a message with younger people that help them understand how important their thoughts are, I thought, well, maybe I can use the analogy of a backpack. Like, every student carries one. And if we have lots of thoughts, it's probably really big. So I went online and found a giant red backpack. And after a couple months of searching, found it. And it became a metaphor for a lot of the thoughts I share. How old are you now, Sam? 25. 25. I mean, a lot of people have not accomplished at 25, at 50 what you've accomplished at 25.

Where do you want to be at 50? I want to be doing work with people I love for a long period of time. I'm not sure what the world has in store for the work we're doing. I want to keep spreading positive messages and love and help other people recognize that as humans we have way more in common with each other than we do different. I hope that I will be filling stadiums with intergenerational families coming out to enjoy the experiences we create and yeah that's all i got so far well it's pretty good listen sam one of the reasons i want to have you on the show is on on this show we tend to share a lot of

stories that are negative a lot of stories that that hit the heart in a bad way and i wanted to i want to introduce you to an audience that may not know who you are but i wanted i wanted them to see that there is this honestly this as far as i'm concerned a beacon of light someone who is entirely positive, someone who is, wants to share that positivity and who's, who's successful at it. There is so much negativity on social media and you are the opposite of that. You're the antidote to that. And I wanted my audience to see that, that you exist because there's not a lot of people like you. And the fact that you are one of our own, the fact that you are Canadian, it fills me with so much pride. And I hope this is not the last time we chat to you on this show.

And it's an honor. Thank you so much. Thank you, my friend. And keep doing what you doing, and I hope to talk to you again soon. With a Subaru, a vehicle that's built to last come standard. Heated front seats? Standard. High ground clearance? Standard. Eyesight driver assists to help spot the scooter delivery guy texting, merging,

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