The Ben Mulroney Show - One Woman’s Lifelong Battle to Bring Hope and Healing to Drug Addicts

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

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H-E-L-P.com slash Mulruni. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. One of the things that we like to do on this show that we feel is incumbent upon us with the platform that we have. And, oh, by the way, I'm not referring to myself in the third person when I, when, when, I'm talking about the show and us, the team here. We, we, not me.

It's not the royal we. Is to talk about the pig-headed, dangerous, ideologically driven drug rehabilitation, drug policy in this country. And there's a lot of them in a lot of places. Some of them better than others. Some of them far worse than others. But we here at the show have a particular view.

we think that there can be no recovery without recovery. And there is no way out of drug addiction unless there's a pathway out of drug addiction. And that goes through recovery. And so the idea of constantly feeding a drug addict's addiction without giving them the requisite tools to get out of addiction is just delaying the inevitable, which is that person's death. And so we're joined now, very pleased to be joined now by somebody who has been on the front lines of that very battle. Peggy Shaughnessy from Peterborough.

Peggy, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. So Peggy, you are the co-founder of Right to Heel. What's that? So Right to Heel is a branch off of what my business, White Path Consulting, which was developed that I started in 2002. And as a result of business is not being allowed to be funded, we created in 2017 the Right to Heal,

which then raised money to be able to do the Red program within our city. So let's go back to the beginning when you saw the opioid crisis at its worst in Peterborough, and you wanted to help. And you wanted to help by way of opening a rehabilitation clinic. Yeah, so in 2007, I really saw the homelessness problem, the list for housing was starting to climb and with the Oxycontin crises at that time that there was, we saw addiction starting to rise. And so there was, the Bible College was available to purchase at that time.

It had 259 beds. It had seven classrooms, et cetera. And so we decided that maybe we could get people behind us and purchase it. So we started cleaning and everything, and then we had the neighborhood, they were concerned that I was going to bring native people from across Canada because I do a lot of work in First Nation communities and that I was going to do a needle exchange and so

they had 259 signatures we were brought in front of council who said we didn't have a problem at the time and sort of really sort of pushed me out so so city council sided with the people who said that your facility

would bring a criminal element into the neighborhood yeah indigenous people imagine but the thing was was originally they let us go in there and then they went against us and like we were treated like you wouldn't even believe at that time. It's shocking to me. The irony is not lost on me, Peggy, that the same people who gave you reasons why you

couldn't open it are now would refuse to hear those same complaints about, you know, oh, if you're opening up a rehab facility in somebody's home or a homeless. a homeless shelter in somebody's neighborhood, as is the case in Toronto, they won't listen to that. They won't listen to the, what are you doing to our neighborhood argument? So, okay, so you weren't able to open this.

And what happened in the interim? So in 2007, you could have opened this incredible facility that could have helped on so many fronts and it could have been, could have grown as part of the community. And instead, instead it was, you had to wait, what, 10 years before you could actually do what, you wanted to?

way of a not-for-profit? So what happened was it took me then outside the city, and I traveled across Canada, training people to become facilitators in the Red Path program, and even my daughter and I went to Guam to train the Chamorro people in Guam on my program. Minister Tobolo saw the effects of it on the land program near Canora, and he came and searched me out. Dave Smith, our MPP, was the first politician that ever fought, and it took about four years. years before finally the Ontario government, current government gave us $272,000. It's very little

amount. So my business has to compensate wages in many other things in order for us to keep going. Peggy, talk to me about, like, how does your program view addiction? So our program looks at the why they're addicted in the first place rather than the addiction itself. Okay. And we try to get people back on their feet and become part of the community and we've been very successful probably in the last three years we've never had an overdose we've never had a needle we've never had an ambulance in the only time we've had the police is for a coffee um and so wait hold oh peggy peggy hold on a sec you haven't had a single overdose no not one because yeah well may i may i pause it that because you're you're also not giving away drugs to anybody who wants

So I saw, Peggy, I saw someone on social media and, you know, every now and then you hear something and it sounds so true to you that you'll never forget it. It was a drug addict, a recovered drug addict who said drug addicts will always take the path of least resistance. That is how they are built. So if the path of least resistance is stealing your mother's jewelry so that you can pay for your drugs, that's what you're going to do. and so knowing that when we have leaders in this in our communities who are creating permissive rules around how easy it is to get the paraphernalia you need and shooting up on government properties of course they're going to do that of course they're going to avail themselves because that's the path of least resistance the hardest thing to do is to get help and

get clean. And so I'm so glad you're doing this. Why do you think we have so many leaders in this country who are defaulting

to the position that I just described being so permissive on drug use? Well, I'm going to take you, I just do this really quick, one step backward of the least resistance. It's even worse than not been. That's the only choice that they're given. So if I become an addict, I have no other choice but for the needle in the pipe because that's all that's being offered to me. Yeah, and well, exactly. Moving forward to the question you just asked, first of all, our government

officials that are elected are not experts in the area of addiction. And second of all, they're still continuing to call upon the same old dinosaur experts that have always been, and it's much easier. It's much easier to just give the money, but then we go another step, and it's the bureaucrats that are actually giving the money. And so it's a big, big circle

of how the money is being dispersed. It, to me, is laziness. Peggy, how important is this conversation considering that this Sunday is International Overdose Prevention Day? You had to go there, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah?

Well, for us, for us, you know, being sort of the, maybe not the soul, but the sole provider of treatment that is looking at an alternative way, for us, we're always swimming against this tidal wave. And so for three years, this would have been our third year being part of the overdose awareness, but I'm not sure if you're aware, but an email came out. And it pretty much might as well have been directed right to us because it said that if you're doing treatment, you're not. allowed to put out any pamphlets and not and the only time you could really bring awareness to the fact that if somebody asked you for it yeah well we we covered that on this we covered that

on this show okay yeah how would they even ask me for it when I can't even tell them that's what I'm there for it's it's I was dumbfounded by this and of course there were some pearl clutches who tried to try to um I don't know punch back by by misdirection If you are in preparing for overdose prevention day and part of prevention of overdoses doesn't include treatment, then I don't know that you have the requisite intelligence, nor do you have the moral authority to be a leader on this file? Well, even worse, when our public health doctor,

the doctor of our public health, can only speak about harm reduction, and I have never since he came to Peterborough, even said the word treatment, isn't that a problem within itself? Yeah, Peggy, I got one more question for you. I need you to answer it in one sentence. The research that shows that enabling drug addicts with more supplies is the way to go. Is that, is that legit?

Well, I would ask them to show me what question they asked in the geographical boundaries that they used. And if I could repeat it and get the same result, then we'll discuss this again. Peggy Ashonnessy, the founder of Right to Heel. Thank you so much. Thanks, Ben. All right, more to come on the Ben Roller News show. Light the path to a brighter future with Stellist lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLR.com.

And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. All right, let's talk about the housing crisis, shall we?

How do you get yourself out of it? Well, you've got to build a lot of houses. And that's a big chunk of it. But the powers that be in Australia, they're going through a housing crisis as well, have decided that it's a multi-pronged attack. One, build houses. Two, get people out of the houses they're living in. And put families with more people in there.

And look, it makes, the numbers make sense, right? If you have a house, let's say you were a family of five, dad, mom, and three kids. And then the kids grow up and they leave and they go start their own lives. And now it's just mom and dad. So that four bedroom house has three bedrooms that aren't being used. So in Australia, they are looking to enact these. spare bedroom tax. I don't know how many, I don't know how much money is. I don't know how much they're going to charge per room. But what they want is they want to make it financial. They want

to incentivize it. It's the opposite of incentive. They want to penalize you for staying in a house that's got rooms that could be used by a family of five. Shame on you. Shame on you. How dare you. How dare you stay in your own home? I think this is a, I think this is insulting to anybody who has ever owned a home. Because when you buy a house, it's the most important asset you'll ever own. It's, it's special because it's got, it's got an emotional component to it. It represents something to you. It represents your success.

It represents your challenges. It represents your identity. It's the place you feel safe. It's the place you've, your kids grew up. it's it's where you put most of your money and that money it could for for all this government knows that money is going to be you're going to sell the house at some point and that money is going to be your retirement right so this so that this house was your investment into your retirement yeah oh we got a clip let's let's play this match between the average size of households

and the average size of a home is prompting experts to propose attack on spare bedrooms. New research from totality revealed a third of Australian households is made up of just two people, while the most common property is three bedrooms. It's suggested that a levy, along with the removal of stamp duty, may encourage shrinking families and empty nesters to downsize freeing up supply. Yeah, I think this is one of those terrible decisions that highlights, not the crisis, it highlights the government's addiction to our money.

There's a crisis, and the solution is you need more houses. Go build more houses. That's your job. Go build more houses. And if it's not the government doing it, make sure it's private industry doing it. Build more houses. Don't come after the house that I'm paying for and have been paying for for 25 years. It's mine.

I've already been told by my government here that I can't defend it if somebody breaks in. If somebody comes in and puts a gun to my kid's head, I can't respond with, I can't respond emotionally to that. Oh, I have to respond with an appropriate amount of force. Canada, to be fair, has not proposed a specific spare bedroom tax. However, discussions around taxing underused or vacant residential properties has been ongoing. We got the vacant home tax here in the city of Toronto. And look, but a vacant home is not a vacant room.

A vacant home is a separate stand-alone building that could be housing other people. So if you want to create a system where you can't just own a house and do nothing with it, except wait for it to accrue in value, yeah, I'm fine with that. But in my home, this is my home. And if my kids leave, I reserve the right to keep a room for them in case they've got to come back. In the Justin Trudeau economy that we're all living in, there's no guarantee that once my kids leave the house, they're not going to have to come back. So that room, with all due respect, I have full dominion over. And I'm sorry, I don't, I'm not sorry.

I'm sorry, I'm not sorry. But no, go build the homes and leave my house to me. And this idea that, oh, you want me to downsize? then you know what you want me to downsize then give me a break on my income tax give me an incentive to leave don't penalize me for staying I mean how dare you

how dare you but I wouldn't put it past a certain type of politician you know it's that certain type of politician that got us the second land transfer tax in the city of Toronto we got a couple of calls who do we have first Sonia welcome to the show oh Ben

I so agree with you What the heck is going on? Now, to be fair, this is not a Canadian idea yet, but I say yet because it could. Ben, it could be. I'm not surprised with Mark, with Carney. Really, people work so hard to have their houses. What they're accommodating is people that have more than two kids. Yeah.

And we know what people have more than two kids, the ones that are being paid to have more than two kids. And that's totally ridiculous because I'm not. giving up my house no for other people to stay there but but but so this is what i think sonya if if you want to to create an exodus of people leaving their homes so that families bigger families can move in then don't you dare try to tax me for the rooms that i'm not that i'm not using the way you feel i should but instead create an incentive for me to leave give me give me a break on a whole bunch of taxes, and I'll leave my house, right? If you, you give me a break on my income tax, you give me a break on my,

uh, my property tax, you give me a break on, on the land transfer tax when I sell my house again or when I buy the next place, incentives are what, what should be talked about, not penalties. Sonia, thank you so much for the call. Uh, who do we have now? We got Tom, welcome to the show, Tom. Ben, I am sick and tired of hearing this massive overreach from the government, sick and tired. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to remind you this is not yet a Canadian idea. It's just something that's happening in Australia and therefore it could happen here. Well, I'll tell you one thing.

You already lost me at the home vacant tax. I have a home. I have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it. Okay. Within means. Yeah, well, but listen, no, no, I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not disputing that. I think, personally, I don't think we have enough rights as it comes to our property. What, what, what, what, what, what, what they noticed was a, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, trend towards people who don't live in a city, people who are not Canadian, who've got a lot of money that they want to invest, and so they come to Canada, they park it in a house, and then they leave. And so, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, been sold.

Yeah. So to be quite honest with you, I understand the premise of what you're talking about. And that happened mostly in Vancouver. Yeah. Where if a 35% deposit from foreign investors was not even disclosed where this money came from, which hence the term snow washing, which is huge in Canada. Yeah. But in Toronto, in Toronto, we don't have a problem with vacant homes.

We have a problem with our government overtaxing the hell. as a citizen. If you, you know what, you should be given, not you, but the government should be giving breaks to people who are renting their homes.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Incent, give people incentives. Don't, don't penalize them because they're not living the way you want them to live based on the pressures of the world that are created because of the crisis that you enabled.

Tom, thank you for the call. Let's finish up with Michael. Michael. Hey, good afternoon, Ben. Well, you know what? I mean, our Canadian government, It doesn't look at, since 2011, there's $11 trillion money laundry from China that bought all these condos and homes, like you said, and the other caller said they're sitting on it, right?

Yeah. So they don't go after that. They go after me because I want to have an extra spare bedroom and turn it into an office or a gym. Exactly. And how are they going to know what I'm doing with my rooms? That's what I don't get. Like, it's unfeasible. Let me tell you what, just to finish off here.

Yeah. People say my rights, my house, this is my, you got no rights. From the time that you all ran out and got vaccinated five, six times to go eat chicken wings, you all agree to all this that was coming. No, no, that's no. Property rights and getting vaccinated are two separate things. Thank you very much, my friend. I appreciate it.

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