The Ben Mulroney Show - Oscars rules/The Ringrescue on "The Pitt"

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

GUEST:  ADAM ZIVO / National Post Columnist GUEST:  Patrick Hennessey / CTO & Co-founder Ring Rescue Guest: Brad MacKeil / COO & Co-founder Ring Rescue Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters, Founding Partner of Chatter AI If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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to the Academy after the Oscars' So White Movement. And I think it's a microcosm of society in general where a lot of good has come from social change over the past 10 years, but like so many progressives, they just take it a little too far. We get into that. But also, if you're watching TV, you're probably watching The Pit. And there is an episode that showcases an incredible, simple, but incredible new technology that apparently is needed in emergency rooms across North America.

And it comes from Canada. It comes from Nova Scotia. We talk to two of the co-founders of Ring Rescue. We also talk to Adam Zivo, who's on the ground in Israel, and I asked him, what do people there think of Canada and our reputation? And the answer, you're not going to, you might be surprised about it, but you're not going to like it. And then Burger King, we talk with Tony Chapman about the Burger Wars and how one competitor is trying to reclaim their throne. So let's get right into it, the Ben Mulroney Show podcast. Well, mark your calendars, everybody.

I know that everybody who doesn't like me, and there's a lot of you, apparently, uh, love, anytime I say something online, the immediate reaction back, uh, never mind what I've said, it's who said it. They'll say, Nepo baby, um, lightweight. Uh, and why aren't you asking people who they're wearing? And I, the fact that people know me for that speaks to how that show was successful. I was for, A decade and a half, Canada's only broadcaster going live from the Oscar red carpet. I had the second position on the car. We had.

It wasn't my position. It was CTV's position. Second position on the red carpet as the only other national broadcaster in North America who could go live. Next to me was Ryan, I can't believe I forget his name. It was E. Entertainment. And then everybody else. And so I was there for everything. I was there the year that they canceled my first red carpet.

They canceled the red carpet because of the Second Gulf War. I was there for every big social movement represented by a pin or button. And I was there for Oscars So White, which marked its 10-year anniversary. This year, the Oscars were last night, and I'll admit, not only did I not watch it, but I kind of forgot it was on. And I don't think I'm alone. But Conan O'Brien apparently acquitted himself quite well, and he likes to look at the glass half full. I'm going to be back hosting the Oscars last year. When I hosted, Los Angeles was on fire.

But this year, everything's going great. And you cannot deny the importance of movies in our lives. You can't. For people who think that it's all fluff, no, no, no, no. These are, this is, this is a record of who we are and what matters to us. And what mattered as much as anything else as it relates to entertainment was K-pop demon hunters. It is the most stream movie in the history of Netflix. And it was co-written and co-directed by Maggie Kang.

who's a Sheridan College Toronto alum. And she won the Oscar for directing the best animated feature. And this is what she had to say. And for those of you who look like me, I'm so sorry that it took us so long to see us in a movie like this. But it is here. And that means that the next generations don't have to go longing. This is for Korea and for Koreans everywhere.

Okay, that's great. And I do, I subscribe to that motto that popped up post George Floyd that said, and an Oscar So White, you can't be what you can't see. And, you know, to watch a woman like Maggie Kang saying there, there may be a young girl who looks like her, who has graphic design in her heart. And she sees that. And she's like, oh, it's easier to visualize yourself when you see somebody who's done it. And you'll remember, Oscar So White was a campaign because it felt. to a lot of people like the deck was stacked against anybody who wasn't in the old white boys club. And I remember when it was announced that new rules for voting and who could be in the academy came out, I said, I actually said this. This is something that actually came true. I said this is a generational change. This is not something that's going to happen overnight.

Next year, if you don't see the returns that you expect this to yield, give it 10 years. years, and we are now 10 years later. But what I want to do, Santiago, I want to jump ahead here, and I want to go to what Bill Maher said about Oscars So White. As this Sunday's Academy Award show is the 10th anniversary of the Oscars So White campaign, someone must wear a ribbon that says, we won. Just as a way to remind progressives, hey, you're progressive. Progressive. Progress is what you're selling. Take the win. The Oscars are no longer a long, boring show full of white people.

It's a long, boring show full of all people. Eight of the last ten best director prizes have been won by underrepresented groups, not to mention 60% of the honorary awards. You can't argue with a straight face or even a gay face.

That the Academy in 2026 still overlooks minority achievement, or that Hollywood is biased in favor of all white people, just Australians. He's absolutely right, and it should be celebrated. And this goes back to something I've said. What is the magic of Western society besides the violent collision of ideas in the public square? It is the pursuit of perfection.

It is the pursuit of equality. It is the pursuit of justice. It is the pursuit of righteousness, knowing you will never fully attain it, but never stopping to attain it. And we, we were there. We were there closer than we've ever been a few short years ago. And then a whole bunch of people got in people's years and said, no, no, no, no, that guy next to you? Now, he's your enemy because he's got a different skin color. And then, and then we all boarded the crazy train. And we went in a completely different direction. And so those were great ideas by the academy. But just like so many things,

they took it too far. And now in order to qualify for best picture at the Oscars, as of two years ago, they now called the quota Oscars. On-screen representation, if you want best picture, if you want to be nominated, you have to have on-screen representation of one lead or 30% of the cast main storyline from underrepresented groups. Then you have to have leadership roles.

And essentially, you have to build your story and the visuals of the story as well as, everyone in the background with a checklist. It's a paint-by-numbers scenario that had that existed before 2024, Braveheart, gladiator, a beautiful mind, the Lord of the Rings, no country for old men, the King's Speech Spotlight, all Oscar winners, and none of them would have passed that test. And here's the great irony.

Here's the great irony of these progressives who take things, just one, two, three, four steps too far. What you've said with this is we don't trust the people making the movies to make the right decisions. We think that they will backslide. So we have to put these guardrails in place to ensure that they appeal to their better angels. Forgetting that it is those very same people that brought in the changes that led to all

of this post-Oskers-so-white success for so many people. You can't have it both ways. You're either so racist that you need guardrails to make sure that even the racists have to make movies with representation, or you were made up of a membership that saw a problem in the pursuit of perfection, in the pursuit of equality, in the pursuit of justice, saw the changes, saw the problems, and made the changes to affect change. That change was affected. We're now living. We're living in a better place to put those guardrails in, denies the success that we're all, that they're enjoying right now. And that is the problem, as I see it, with so many of these issues.

There are people like me, rational conservatives who are willing to look at the problem and say, yes, there is a problem here. Yes, and I want to hear you. Yes, I'll even concede some ground based on my political values. I'll concede some ground. and then they take the ball and they run it to a place where I say, I'm not going there with you. I'm not going there with you.

In fact, now I have to actively work against you. And so, sorry, you want me to say, oh, I got one minute left? Sorry, I went out. I went, I would, I would, yeah, some of the examples of. Oh, some of the problems? Oh, yeah, well, listen, never mind the fact that still the scandal of all scandals, You want to talk about somebody who's been snubbed. I mean, this woman would look very at home in a room full of Cairns.

She looks like the epitome of privilege. Diane Warren has been nominated 17. What? No, I'm saying it. No, Diane Warren, who's been nominated 17 times for an Oscar for a best song, right? She wrote, I don't want to miss a thing. She missed, nothing's going to stop us now. She wrote, because you love me, snubbed 17 times.

I don't know. I think we may have to put some guardrails up to protect her. Next year, they got a given award to her. All right, when we come back, we're having a tremendous discussion with our good friend Adam Zivo, who has been in the Middle East for all of this, for everything since the war started. We're going to ask him, how is Canada's reputation being received over there? Don't go anywhere.

Adam Zivo is next. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show And I want to thank George from Ottawa for texting in reference to what we were talking about in our previous segment when I said a lot of people who just don't like me, don't like me And he said referring to your opening line

about people liking or not liking you I like you. However, I've had the pleasure to meet your sister a few times And I have to tell you, I like her a lot more than you. All the very best, George from Ottawa. George, I agree with you. I like my sister more than I like me. every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

But thank you very much for texting in and thank you for listening. All right, time now to go to the other side of the world where we find and the impact of what's going on there is felt on the streets of our city and indeed around the country with a war in Iran causing chaos in world markets, in oil markets, and ultimately in your pocketbook. So to get a sense of what's going on there, from his perspective, we're joined by Adam Zivo of the National Post. Adam, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. Okay, I didn't want to get into the nuts and bolts of the military campaign. I wanted to talk to you about Canada, how Canada is perceived, if at all, in the region. Because I remember when I was on that trip to Israel, there was a lot of love on the streets for.

the Americans and Donald Trump and for, you know, their very sort of singular view of who the good guy was and who the bad guy was. And in Canada, sometimes nuance can lead to muddled opinions and not being able to stand and be clear-minded in your, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, why you're standing or not standing on anything. So what's the impression of Canada, uh, from the people you're talking to. Well, I'll be honest, Canada barely comes up. We're a non-entity. We're not seen as a substantial partner when it comes to security. And when Israelis do bring up Canada, the first question they ask is, why are Canadians so anti-Semitic? Because they're seeing all the news reports from these rallies where you have people holding horrible caricatures of Jews. And they're thinking,

well, how is this happening here? We thought the Canadians were the nice guys. Yeah. And you'll remember that one guy had a swastika on one sign during the trucker convoy and everybody was labeled a Nazi. But meanwhile, at these rallies, people are holding up cartoons of Jews with long noses and placards demanding the eradication of Israel. That's fine. That's good. It's this selective outrage that we have here that annoys me. But back to what you were saying, that we are a non-entity. It is felt that way.

You know, we've abdicated that middle power, that broker, right? The guy who had the ear of the president and the respect of the president and the military clout to be able to do what he says and says what he does. So we've abdicated that and we've replaced it with, I think, a lot of talk and tough talk, but we don't have the ability to back it up. What do we have to do to get back to that place where Canada was a respected middle power? Well, I think we have to stand with our allies on important matters like this. And I know that there are some Canadians who think that the Iran war has nothing to do with us.

But as I emphasize when, for example, I'm reporting in Ukraine, we are facing off against an anti-Western block. It's a new Cold War. You know, we have China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea standing together. And it is unwise of us to view these as unrelated theaters of foreign. conflict. It's all put together. Iran supports Russia. Russia supports Iran. And for us as Canadians, I'm going to say two things. Number one, our Arctic sovereignty is our main concern going forward. And with Russia, that will be the main, there'll be the main power to contest that. So obviously, we want to weaken Russia's partners. And then the second more global problem here is

nuclear proliferation, right, which is that if Iran is able to get nuclear weapons, which has been trying to do for quite some time, but it keeps on being thwarted by Israel, then that will spur a nuclear arms race in the region, with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Turkey wanting to get their own nuclear weapons. And I think that every Canadian has a strong interest in ensuring that there are as few nations in the world that have nuclear weapons as possible, especially in a volatile region like this, where states are very unstable. So if you don't want your kids to worry about nuclear war, then you should try to stop the autocratic, unstable, religious, fundamentalist regime from having nuclear weapons.

We already made this mistake with North Korea. We weren't stern enough. Now we have a rogue state with nuclear weapons there. Do we really need to make the same mistake again? Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. Now, what is, I wanted to ask you about the people of Israel, because unlike the Americans who are fresh, like they haven't been in a long protracted ground war, like the Israeli troops,

Are you getting a sense of whether or not there is fatigue for being on a war footing for as long as they have? Or is it, I mean, I tend to believe that there's something about the Israeli psyche that is different than, you know, a Canadian psyche where we're comforted from, by being on the other side of the world and things like this. Well, I mean, of course there's fatigue. I mean, everyone, everyone is exhausted with war at this point. And they've been going through active war for years now. But at the same time, there's an incredible amount of resilience. And Israelis are taking this war in great stride. And it certainly helps that this war is going very much in their favor, which I think some Westerners don't really see.

So all we hear about, for example, are issues with the Strait of Hormuz. But what we're not talking about often is how Israeli missile strikes against Israel have decreased by more than 90% since the very beginning of the war. Right. Yeah. So whereas the first day of the war, we were going in and out of bomb. shelters every single day. At this point, there are, you know, a few sirens a day and you go into shelter for about 10 minutes and it's a chore. And then you get out and you resume your day as if nothing really happened. People are going on with their lives. Businesses are reopening.

And as a result, that makes being resilient a lot easier. We just got news that the prime minister has agreed to release almost 25 million barrels of oil from our reserves into the international system as part of 400 million barrels, which is by far the biggest reaction to a crisis like this, as we've seen since the previous record was set in 2022. And I think that was, what, 220 million barrels. So this is orders of magnitude more significant. Are people there in Israel aware of how the dynamic in the region is having these global knock-on effects?

They are aware, of course. They're very much here about how there's global economic disruption, although I don't think it's as fully appreciated because people's problems here are more immediate. Right. So, of course, life has a certain degree of normalcy because Iran has been crippled and because the infrastructure has been set up to ensure that people stay safe. But the big question here is, you know, will the West fully prosecute this war so that Iran is no longer a threat to the region and that so we don't have to go through this all over again in, let's say, two, three, four, five years.

Let me ask you a question because I don't have a lot of time left, but I've put this to a number of other people. I would have thought when I heard the president in the United States say, we're going to, we're going to come in there and help you out. but then it's going to be up to you people of Iran to rise up and take your country back, which I assumed meant that there was some sort of militia

waiting in the wings who had probably been trained by the CIA. They've probably been funneling weapons in for years through secret networks, which is what the CIA is supposed to do or what they think they're supposed to do. Like, do you know anything about that? Because the next phase has to be,

at some point, the penultimate phase has to be, the Iranian people fighting for their freedom. And I'm sorry, if you can answer that in 30 seconds, I'll give you a prize. Okay, okay, okay. So very quickly, they did something stupid. They armed and trained the Kurdish militia in Kurdish, like Iraqi Kurdistan, where there are many Iranian Kurds as well.

And that's a really bad idea, because if the Kurds did a ground incursion into Iran and occupied the Kurdish area of Iran, that would stoke ethnic separatism and would probably increase the chance of civil war and would delegitimize the Iranian opposition because territorial integrity is the main thing that Iranians care about. Well, the second important thing after displacing or sorry, toppling the Islamic regime.

So don't invade Iran with the Kurds. That's a really bad idea for everyone. Thank you, my friend. Stay safe. We'll talk to you again soon. Talk to you done. And when we come back, there is a star on a major U.S. Canadian star on a major U.S. TV. show and it's a medical device.

We'll talk about that next. Well, I think if you are like most people who enjoy that theatrical level television, then you're probably watching The Pit. And the Pit, if you don't know, it's an HBO or HBO Max show. I think it's on Crave and stars Noah Wiley of ER fame back in a hospital as another doctor. and the conceit of the show is every, it's shot in real time. It's the 24 model. And it did gangbusters in season one.

I think they're doing, they're in the middle of season two. I think it's been greenlit for a ton more. We'll get into the economics of that show at some point, but I was reading up about how it is, it's like one of the cheapest shows to make, even with that premium level of the quality of it. And, but there's a Canadian star on the pit. And it's not an actor.

It's a piece of technology that was developed in Nova Scotia. And here to talk about it, here to talk about Ring Rescue are the co-founders of the business, Patrick Hennessy, the CTO and co-founder. And do we have both? Yeah. Oh, and Brad McHale, who's the C-O and co-founder. Gentlemen, congratulations, and welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. Oh, Ben, it's great to be here and thank you so much for the kind intro. This has been such a cool couple days, kind of pre and post airing of the show.

It's kind of been a bit of a pinch me moment as a co-founder. So tell everybody what this piece of technology is. What is the Ring Rescue? Go ahead, Brad. So, yeah, Ring Rescue is a purpose-built device for tackling the problem with ring entrapment. So you, many different ways that this could happen. You could fall down, break your wrist, your hand swells up. As you can imagine, many different ways you could end up in a scenario where your ring gets stuck on your finger. Typically, there's been no

standardized solution for tackling this problem. So ring rescue is a purpose-built two-units system that lets you either compress the finger to remove the ring safely, or Or we have a sophisticated ring cutter that lets you cut through any metal, including stainless steel, tungsten, titanium, and tackle this problem in a standardized way. So I guess every time there's a new product on the market, people ask what problem is it solving? And you've just laid it out.

But how big of a problem is this? And I don't have it in front of me. I apologize. But one of you is a doctor, correct? Our third co-founder is a doctor, Dr. Kevin Spencer. And was he the one who, like, it was his idea, said, this is a big problem and we can fix it. So this actually began when Brad and I were students at Delhousie University. We were both engineering students.

And we had to do a project. And we wanted to do something cool and something different for the project. So we actually reached out to some medical professionals and just asked a very simple question, what's something you don't like about your job? and one of Brad's friends who's in Yardoc as well brought up ring entrapment and stuck rings and talked about what a pain these can be. Gold rings are very simple,

but you get into complicated metals, tungsten carbide, titanium, and these can present hours and hours of frustration in an emergency setting. And what happens if you can't get the ring off? I mean, you're your product. Ultimately, if you're ultimately if the ring can't come off. You can be in a serious, like, surgical situation where, where they, they need to, like, lop off your finger. No, seriously. It's a real, it's a real thing. It does have to come off

one way or another. Okay. So let's talk about getting your product on a show like the pit. How does that happen? Yeah. So there's a, there's a well-known medical consultant, ED doc in the US who has a podcast, who's been a friend of ours for many years. He's kind of followed us and we've interacted with him on several occasions. He is a consultant for the show. And when our team was down there, Kevin was down at the ASAP conference in, I think it was Las Vegas this year. He actually brought Noah by the booth and brought him over to meet Kevin.

And they saw the device together. Mel, who is the consultant, he likes what we're doing. and a few weeks later, they reached out with a request to have one of these for filming. Now, and that brings up sort of the next point because years and years and years ago, I did a set visit to ER. It was a great week. I did ER and then right next door I did West Wing. It was very cool.

But what I realized is that at the time, NBC that was the broadcast of ER, they were owned by General Electric. And they had a big medical technology wing of that large. business. And so they used ER and that hospital as a backdrop to showcase their best technology, their MRIs and that sort of thing. And it occurred to me and a lot of people knew that there were devices in that hospital that a lot of hospitals couldn't afford. And so my next question for you is, is this something that is, because it's a new technology, is it priced as a new technology? Or is it something, because I've seen it, it's small, is it affordable for all sorts of budgets?

Truly, in the realm of medical equipment, we have this price very competitively. We really want to get this out into the world. Our goal is to be the standard of care globally for this common problem. It's one procedure that's going to allow anyone within the hospital setting to tackle this problem. So we've priced this in a way to get it into as many, sites as we can. And not even just hospitals are actually we we sell quite a bit into fire in the fire rescue space as well because they they also see this problem. Right. So you're barely scratching the surface right because it's a fairly new technology. And I saw on the website that

there's like four or five companies, four or five institutions, medical institutions that are using your product. But said, but you've barely scratched the surface as how many of these you can sell. What happened like getting exposure on a show like that can be really. beneficial, especially to what is essentially a startup. How has the exposure of the show impacted your business? Yeah, I mean, we've seen an uptick in interest, for sure. We've talked to the sales folks and, you know, their inboxes were definitely full, you know, referencing some co-branded material with some local organizations and

Canadian-wide organizations. A lot of social media has gone out. So, yeah, there's definitely been an uptick. I would say prior to the show, you know, we're doing, we're doing fairly well, penetration-wise in the U.S. We're currently in 25, around 25% of USEDs. We've shipped 2,000 of these since we launched in September 2022. I don't know much about business, except I have deep, deep respect for entrepreneurs like

yourselves. But I remember on Dragon's Den, I'd hear Mr. Wonderful always say when somebody came in with a business idea, he'd always say, you don't have a business, you have a product. And so is there, like, what's your plan long term for? this company? Is it to diversify and build purpose-built medical devices? Or is it to get bought out? What's your plan? Our plan right now is to continue to grow like this product that we have. Like you said, we barely scratch the surface. So we are really focused on expanding this first dominating the North American market and then going global with it. And that is like in the three-year

plan. That's that's really what we're doing in the 10-year plan. No, we've got some we've got some other ideas as well. The ideas aren't the hard part. It takes it takes a while to execute them. But no, we we have some we have some bigger plans there for sure. Have you heard stories of success stories of the ring, the ring rescue coming to the rescue already? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, there's there's many different stories. I think one of my, one of my, one of my favorite. favorites is a young girl, I think it was in Georgia. A ring stuck on her finger from a jewelry store, many different calls to many different centers before an EMS, someone in the EMS field heard about the case and had known about Ring Rescue

and no one to up to that point had heard of it. He brought it over and solved the problem in 10 minutes, but they had been talking about, you know, potential amputation of the finger. So congratulations to you guys. You identified a problem. You built a product to solve that problem. And then you have real world proof that it works. To Patrick Hennessy, to Brad McHale, the co-founders of Ring Rescue.

I say congratulations. You've made Canada proud. Thank you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. All right. When we come back, our good friend, Tony Chapman joins us. We're talking about the boom in pet grooming and how animal lovers will stop it to go to any length

to make their dogs lives better. Over the past year, I have probably gone to see my doctor, or that's two years, I probably see my doctor once. The pandemic threw off any sort of routine. And then it just got harder and harder to see the doctor and schedule an appointment. And so that's the human side of my life. My dog, on the other hand, Miss Bruce Wayne Mulroney, gets better health care than I do. Because she has an owner, I don't call myself a pet parent. I'm an owner.

My dog, anytime there's something wrong, I rush her down to the vet and we got a great vet. But it's called the Animal Clinic on Mutual Street. Big shout out. She goes whenever she got a problem.

Anytime she's got a problem. But that speaks to how much owners value the lives of their pets and the comfort of their pets and the pet grooming boom that we're experiencing right now is absolutely enormous. And to talk about that and a couple more stories, including a Burger King brand reset,

were joined by Tony Chapman, the host of the award-winning podcast, Chatter That Matters, as well as the founding partner of Chatter AI. Tony, welcome. Welcome. I'm looking at my two little dogs now and realizing how much poorer I am. Oh, yeah. But how much happier I am because they're in my life. So your points well taken. I tell you, every morning, I get on the ground and I experience what I call 60 seconds of love, where my dog just bathes me in her positive love for me. It's absolutely worth every penny. But how much are we talking here?

Well, we're talking, you know, listen, the pet food alone. I mean, we used to feed our pets table scraps. And then it kind of moved into the Alpo and the dog food you get in the grocery store. Today, in Canada alone, almost $7 billion is spent on pet food. And they're projecting that's going to grow by $3 billion in the next. four years as we continue to treat our pets like humans and we're focusing now on their longevity, their joint health, their brain health. Yeah.

And so it's basically gone from kibbles to concierge. And Canadians are, you know, they're willing to, I mean, they're coming up saying as tough as the economy is, I expect to spend even more my pet next year. So in many cases with this aging population, kids have left home, the pet has come in. the pet has sort of become the new child in the family. Yeah. And there's no, there's no, I mean, the emotional, the emotions that come with that also include, I'm going to spend on them like I might spend on my daughter's wedding.

Oh, my God. And it's really that, it's really, it's really that. It's not even exaggerated. That's just how they think about it. Well, look, I've got two teen boys and I've got a tween daughter, which means I could, I could show, I could leave for work and then come home, walk all over house, say hi to everybody. and I won't get them to look up from their screens. My dog, every time she sees me,

it is the defining moment of her life. And she is going to save her every second with this man that when she, I don't know what she sees when she sees me, but I like what she sees. And so, yeah, absolutely worth it. Okay, we got to talk about this Burger King brand reset. And there is, do we have the, oh, we don't have the audio that thing. So yeah, they put out a big social media post today.

I don't know if you saw it, Tony, about how. I did. Yeah, it was a brilliant piece where they said, you know, fast food dropped off and so did Burger King. But we're back. And I love what they did. We got rid of the Burger King, who was their mascot with the big giant head. They literally have video of him being ushered out of the building. And they have visuals of people wearing the Burger King crown.

They said, Burger King, where you are king. It's brilliant. So talk to me about how you think. they've done here. So Joliyosinski's in and he's one of the most highly regarded CMOs in the restaurant category. He understands what it means to engage. He's looking at this brand that he's inherited. It really has no point of difference, no point of distinction. This mascot, which might have been funny years ago, is kind of worn thin. And so he's really gone back to this concept of reclaim the flame. What Burger King used to be is a point of difference is that they grilled the burger.

where McDonald's would take this frozen thing and kind of put it on a press. So I think to go back to what the burger is all about, almost like Harvey's does with Harvey's makes a hamburger a beautiful thing, finding that point of difference. My question, though, is, is this a little too late? Because this category, like many others, have divided between where can I get the cheapest gut fill? Yeah. And kind of McDonald's kind of wins by default. Or I'm going to now trade up a couple of bucks and go to a W or a couple of dollars.

more and go to more of a gourmet burger place. Yeah, right by my house, I've got on the same street, like within three blocks of each other, I've got a Rudy's, which was the original smash burger in Toronto. No, not the original, but they were the one that were closest like Shake Shack. There's a Shake Shack, and then there's also a Burger's Priest. And so, and one of the knocks, I think, on Burger King was it was inconsistent, right? Wherever you went, it was inconsistent. And with McDonald's, even if it wasn't your favorite, you knew what you were going to get every single time.

And so they've taken this radical honesty position, which could be a good tactic. And if they can put, don't you think, if they can put a string of like new concepts, new recipes, new items on the menu that are well received, then they might have something. Like what Taco Bell does every year, where they have a big announcement of this crazy stuff that they're putting on, menu. If they could do something like that, don't you think that they could regain their position? Well, interesting. Habergers is the number one food in the world in terms of that indulgence. And Burger King, obviously, with a new store, new recipe would create some interest. But again, I go back, has the consumer moved to one or two places? I'm going to get sort of that affordable gut fill. And you said it right. McDonald's, quality, value, cleanliness, and service,

no matter where you go in the world, a cheeseburger is a cheeseburger. Remember, Pulp Fiction? And on the other side of it, you get the Burger Priest of the world that are saying, you know, it's a couple bucks more, but you're not eating as many hamburgers as you used to ban. But when you do, come on in because this is a freshly smashed, got avocado if you want it. And all of a sudden you're going, it's better for me indulgence. Yeah. Can Burger King slide in on the sort of base of that pyramid? I don't know.

Can they trade up to a more premium? I doubt it because it's entrenched in your mind how you see Burger King. So it's a big bet. They've got a great CMO. I love the idea that customers king now, not in terms of the Burger King, but you've got to change in operation. You've got to get people that are making, you know, $8 an hour in the United States, $15, $16 in Canada to get excited about the customer and put a smile in your face and treat the customer like

King. And that's asking a lot in a world as you described when you came in where most kids, when you walk in, rarely look up beyond their screen to even acknowledge some human in the room, let alone to say that there's a king that just walked into my restaurant. But you know, if I saw in that social media post, it was just a quick little view of the outside, the new look of Burger King with the retro Burger King logo. And I'm not going to lie. When I saw it, I say, that's a, that has a new look. And I bet there's a new feel inside.

And it's distinct to Burger King. And that made me say to myself, huh, I think I would go into that restaurant. I would try it out. I haven't tried Burger King in years. But they say they're coming out with new fries. They've got a new bun. They got a new, new, new, new, new. I would absolutely given this push and the honesty that they brought forth saying, yeah, we got it wrong.

We fell off. You know, we're not where we needed to be. And so we're changing a lot. I don't know that that works every time a company needs to pivot. But I think there's self-deprecation in the tone without being too cheeky. And I think if they can string together a few news stories of, items that they're putting on the menu that blow people away, I think they could find their footing. At a price that the consumer is willing to pay.

I agree with everything you said. But what happens to McDonald's, every time their sales come off, they come back with their dollar menu, their $2 million. Right. That's true. That's the audience they're targeting. So Burger King can do all that stuff and be competitive with McDonald's. I'd say great. If they think they can get a dollar or two more, then they're starting to bounce up against the more, the little boutique burgers, the local dining.

Can they get away with it? It has to be a great burger because I'm either going to go fast food or I'm going to be going to an indulgence. And when you're caught in the middle, that's the problem. Last question for you. And you're going to answer in 30 seconds. When you go to McDonald's, what is your order? Quarter pounder. I'm not sorry, quarter pounded.

A little cheese burger and I put French fries in the middle because that's how ate is a kid. Yes, good call. But do you keep all the fixings on there, the onions, all that stuff? Everything on it. Don't know. Don't mess with it. No, the fact that you can customize at McDonald's now. That's what I love.

Thank you, Tony Chapman. I appreciate it. This winter on Global. Have you ever told a lie? Are you serious? It wasn't lying part of the job description of CIA? On executive producer Dick Wolfe and the team behind FBI. New partner? He can be a little by the book.

June, how much used to be alive, but you're really no use to be dead? I never knew you cared. Two perspectives, one mission. You guys work in the open. We work in the shadows. Starring Tom Ellis and Nick Gelfis. Nice work, partner. CIA.

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