The Ben Mulroney Show - Our political panel on a major boost to one of Canada's dream projects

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

Guest: Warren Kinsella, Former Special Advisor to Jean Chretien and CEO of the Daisy Group  Guest: Chris Chapin, Political Commentator, Managing Principal of Upstream Strategy If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's annoying. What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah.

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Warren Kinsella and Chris Chapin. They're joining us as part of our this week in politics closing panel on Fridays. Guys, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having us. Okay, Warren, I want to start with you. And before I get to the question, I'm going to give you a little bit of a preamble, which is that, and I've told this story a couple of times now, that I was at the Friends of the Simon Wiesonth Center,

Spirit of Hope gala two nights ago, honoring allies of the Jewish community, seven people who have stood up for the Jewish community, one of those people being my brother. We were all very proud. My mom was there. Whole family was there.

It was great. Van Jones and Scott Galloway were in conversation, and that was, there was a Blue Jays game going on. And to be honest, I was very glad to have been listening to those two gentlemen speak. However, I noticed the absence of Olivia Chow.

And I asked some of the people involved, and they said, well, she wasn't invited. I said, well, why not? Because, well, this is an event for allies. Would you consider her an ally? I said, I guess not. And then, without me asking, they said, and we didn't invite Mark Carney either. And because we don't consider him an ally either.

And I thought that was very interesting. But then when I see that Mark Carney hasn't yet met with the families of victims killed by Hamas, and it's, you know, I, what do you think? Well, I wasn't invited either. I don't think anybody would ever view you as anything but the staunchest of allies. Yeah, but, you know, was it a well-organized event? Honestly, Ben, like, I don't think it was, to be blunt, because I've heard from a lot of people who were surprised that they didn't hear about it.

Not inviting the prime minister and the mayor, notwithstanding what you feel about them, it's stupid. It's stupid. You know, they are people, whether they like it or not have power. and have influence, and I understand the hurt feelings and so on, and I'm a support of the Jewish community like both of you guys are, but, you know, you have to reach out. Yitzhak Rabin had the most relevant line of all, former Prime Minister of Israel. Who do you make peace with but your enemy? Who do you make peace with but your enemy? So you have to reach out. You have to try and get

as many friends as you can in different places. And not inviting them, I think it was dumb. And that's, and I'm not a fan of Olivia Chow, but I think it was a dumb move. Okay, fair enough. Now, but let's go to the story that Mark Carney hasn't met with the victims, the families of the victims yet. I was surprised to read that, and I'm not going to lie, a little disappointed.

Yeah, well, that's legitimate. In fact, Justin Trudeau and Mark Carney, are the only G7 leaders who have not traveled to Israel to pay tribute to the victims of October 7th. Not the government of Netanyahu, not the bureaucracy in Israel, just the people, the victims, of which seven were Canadian. Trudeau didn't go to Israel, and Carney still hasn't either. Now, Carney, when he was governor of the Bank of Canada, did go to Israel, but that was before October 7th. us know it's really important to go and show whether you like the Netanyahu government or not to go and show solidarity and that's why i think it's the criticism i make of the simon vizenthal people

why i think they're dumb not to reach out to carney and to chow as it gives those two people now an excuse not to do anything for them and say well look they didn't even invite me so what do you want me to do so like you've got to make peace with your enemy and um that cuts that applies to both sides All right. Well, we're going to go now to the starting third basement for the Toronto Blue Jays, Chris Chapin. Chris, do you see things the same way as Warren? No, a little different. I think to your question about Mark Carney, not visiting with any of the families of the victims who were killed by Hamas and Israel, you know, completely unacceptable. To Justin Trudeau's credit, at least he did before he stepped down from office as the right and appropriate thing to do for a prime minister. I'm not going to speak to the logistics of the, you know, the spirit of hope gala.

I think I can see it both ways on whether you, you know, how many times are you going to be fooled by inviting people who you know, you know, the mayor specifically have just made up ridiculous excuses in the past for why she's chosen not to stand by the Jewish community in this city, you know, has made up scheduling errors or, you know, use the old, I must have missed it in my inbox excuse to why she hasn't attended events in the past. So I think I can see it from both sides on, you know, in terms of the event, the logistics itself. But, you know, for Mark Carney to have chosen, I think it's a deliberate choice so far to not have chosen to meet with the families of the victims of these terrorist attacks by Hamas. And, you know, I was encouraged by the article to see that it sounds like his director of communication said the prime minister would be reaching out to these families shortly. But I think sometimes it's a little too late. And, you know, it certainly shouldn't be spurned on. Action should never be spurned on by a media request.

Well, listen, it's not all bad news, you know, and he's got a lot of balls in the air. Some of them are bound to drop every now and then. One of them that seems, he seems to be stick handling pretty well. Sorry, mixing my metaphors there. Mining in Canada is doing well. It looks like Europe is going to have access to Canada's critical minerals. Is this a home run for the prime minister and for this government, Chris Chapin? Yeah, I think it absolutely is.

It's, you know, I don't want to give the Carney government too much credit. so far because I think I've been left wanting more. I've been quite impressed by Minister Hodgson. I think he's clearly, you know, a top shelf cabinet minister for this government. Given his background and his relationship with the prime minister, I don't think that should come as any surprise, but the work he's done with his, you know, respective minister here in Ontario, Stephen Leche, I think they've made terrific strides in the short period of time.

It takes a lot of work and a lot of effort to undo so much of the bureaucracy that was keeping these critical minerals in the ground in this country. And I think both ministers deserve a heck of a lot of praise because it is huge economic opportunity. We've been sitting on for decades in this province, just like we've been sitting on, you know, bountiful resources of oil and natural gas across this country. We are blessed with that. We should be a far, far, far richer country than we have been for far too long. And so I'll give Prime Minister Carney and his government the dues that I think they deserve on this for moving quickly.

And I think the faster we can see these minerals and our natural resources exported, Not just south of the border, I'd like to see it get back there, but to our allies in Europe, the better for them and the better for us. Warren, is it going to take a prime, shining example of developing one sector, one mine, one project, seeing one business, one industry take off and seeing the tax dollars flow from that into the coffers of the federal government, which they can then turn around and pay for all of their social services? Is it going to take an example like that for them to shoot the lock off and really allow us to the country to really responsibly develop our natural resources the way we should have been doing over the past 10 years? That's a great question. I mean, it shouldn't take that for that to happen. We should have the common sense to know. But, you know, I'm an Albertan who worked in the oil patch.

And I know, you know, when Alberta succeeds, when the oil patch succeeds, so does the country. So, but I think all levels of the government get this. Chris is a Tory and just gave credit to the liberals and I've been a liberal and I'll give credit to the Tories. You know, Doug Ford has been running ads. Well, his Reagan ad isn't running anymore, but he's been running Ring of Fire ads during the World Series. All of us have seen them about 6,000 times. And the point he's making is the one you're making, which is we need success in this sector in extracting, you know, precious minerals and natural. resource like we're a natural resources country it's crazy for us to be leaving it in the gram so that's carney's point that's ford's point and they're absolutely right but i'm with chris like i'm from missouri and i'm from calgary show prove it to me yeah prove it to me that you're actually going to do it i know you want to do it let's see you now do it yeah and i i'll agree and i'll say the one thing that's always surprised me is you know for like the nDP for example, where they are so hell bent on keeping all of these resources in the ground, but they

have these dreams and designs on massive social spending projects that could be paid for if we extracted these resources responsibly. Like it's, they should be perfect bedfellows, and yet they're not. Anyway, that's my point on that. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, more with Chris Chapin and Warren Concella right here on the Ben Mulrooney show. Now streaming on Paramount Plus, it's the epic return of Mayor of Kingstown. Warden? You know who I am. Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Renner. I swear in these walls.

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Conditions and exclusions apply. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroon. show and gentlemen, I wanted to throw a curveball at you because there was a question that's been sticking in my craw all morning about this game of almost like narrative chicken, a blame game over if this budget that we've been waiting for for 18 months that is going to be tabled on November 4th, for some reason, if it doesn't pass as a confidence motion, the government would fall and we would be in a Christmas election, who would be to blame? and liberals are saying it would be the conservative's fault. Conservatives are saying it would be the liberals' fault. And I wonder, to both of you know this world far more than I, and we'll start with you, Chris. What do you think's going on here?

I mean, Ben, it's just, you know, your standard minority government political game of chicken, to be bluntly honest. And we see this at every level of the government across the country that's had a minority parliament or minority legislature. Sure. You know, to be honest, I don't think it matters. I think either party's thinking that they're going to get the upper hand in this right now. You know, notwithstanding the sweater I'm wearing, I think 16 million people tuned into games one and two of the World Series. If they think any Canadians paying any attention to what's happening in Ottawa over a game of chicken, over

who might allow the budget to pass or not, I think they're, you know, as tone deaf as they typically are in the Ottawa bubble. So I think, you know, liberals are going to blame conservatives and conservatives are going to blame liberals. You know, conservative party supporters are going to blame the liberals and liberal party supporters are going to blame the conservatives. And, and Chris, that's fine. But at some point, listen, I don't, I think the budget's going to pass. That's my gut feeling on this. But if it doesn't, we are going to be an election. People will be paying attention at that point. And I think a lot of people are going to be angry and they're going to be looking to blame someone for sending us to the polls.

And Warren, you've been through this. And Chris just said that this happens all the time in minority governments. So who is, who are the, who are, uh, Canadians going to blame for putting us back in an election? If, if, if, if, I could see that. Yeah. I could see that. If my grandmother had, if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bus. Like it, you know, and so let's say there is an election.

Like, you know, and then people. will be talking about how grumpy they are for the first day, as they always do, and then they get over it. The only exception being the Peterson mistake, you know, so many years ago. But, I mean, let's look at the fundamentals here, guys. Like, Chris is totally right. This is just Ottawa games. This is proof positive that Ottawa is two square miles surrounded by reality. Like, you've got an NDP that does not have a leader.

You've got a conservative party led by a guy who's really unpopular. You've got the liberal party overflowing with money and the polls saying that they would win a majority if there was an election. Like, in what universe does it make sense for the opposition to force an election? Like, they're going to lose the election if they do do that. And it just makes no sense whatsoever. So I think, you know, some dippers and some Tories are going to get diplomatic flu on the day it comes to vote for the budget. And things keep on moving. That's the way it always works.

So that's what's going to happen here. All right. I'm going to remember this. We're going to clip this and we're going to play it on whenever the vote comes. Okay, the Cowich and Land Claim issue out of British Columbia. Now Quebec has picked up the ball and indigenous groups are asking for about $5 billion. Warren, I was speaking with somebody who had me thinking about this in a new way, which is we're living in an era of recognition.

But also decolonization. And those two concepts are designed to eat each other. One cannot exist in the presence of the other, as goes the theory. And I got to ask, I think you were on the show, you told us a while ago that this wasn't the big deal that some people were making. I mean, I hope I'm, I hope I'm remembering that correctly. But is it turning out to be a bigger deal now? Regionally it is, you know, some places, you know, people who have 99-year leases and finding, you know, that they've got a landlord, which isn't an indigenous band or First Nation, unhappy. But, you know, my daughter is indigenous, as you know, Ben, and, you know, she has the best take on this at all. It's like, Dad, you know, they do all these invocations and these, you know, poetic statements at the start of every single event now. We're standing on the land of the Anashnabi or the. the jibwe or the kree or whatever and she said well which is it like is it is it our land or not if it's our land give us fair market value if it's not then shut up about it yeah so i think you're right in the sense that white people people like us are trying to have it both ways either we acknowledge

that you know first nations have some kind of say in indigenous lands and indition is real estate frankly or they don't yeah and but we need to pick a lane not them and like them, they're acting in their self-interest. If they hire a smart lawyer and come after somebody and say, you owe us a lot of money, well, good on them because, you know, that's what everybody else does. Yeah, and Chris, you know, when you're looking at it like that, it's hard to fault the indigenous stakeholders here because, yeah, it's right. If there's an opportunity for them to benefit themselves and their people,

why wouldn't they take it? If we are going to create the framework for this sort of thing to happen, they would be stupid not to take advantage. Absolutely. You know, I might disagree with some of how we're handling this. But yeah, like, I mean, we had, you know, just what this past week, the national anthem, the controversy over, you know, changing the words in the national anthem during the baseball game about, you know,

on native land. And, you know, it's absolutely something. Why wouldn't you? If we're going to keep pretending, to Warren's point, and not pick a lane on whether, you know, it's their land or our land or somewhere in between, why wouldn't you keep trying to, you know, claim and get a financial benefit out of it? Because we've shown time and time again that we're unsure on what position we're going to take and the awards have followed. All right. In the last couple of minutes that we have, we are going to focus on these national anthems. I have no idea what the heck's going on here.

This is just, this is just crazy. And so I had a theory yesterday. I put this out there into the ether and maybe someone will pay attention. I think anybody at any one of these games needs to sign a contract. It should be a standard contract. You sing the words of the anthem as they are written or there's some sort of financial penalty. What do you think? Chris, you go first.

I agree. I think you have the right to be a terrible singer and butcher the sound that comes out of your mouth when you're singing the national anthem. I don't think you have any right to change the lyrics whatsoever of our national anthem, full stop. Yeah. Warren, what are your thoughts? Well, I don't know the lyrics. Yeah, they change. They change here so much.

But I kind of liked what Rufus Rainewright did in game five, you know, saying, sending a message to the Americans. So I was like, oh, okay. Well, I kind of like that. He's not, he's not there to send a message. It's not, that's not why he's there. He's there to sing the national anthem. Well, the alternative was beating the stuffing at a Prince Harry and failing that. You know, I got Rayfish Ray, right?

So I wanted Prince Harry to get the stuffing beaten out of them. But anyway, look, it doesn't matter. All that matters tonight is Yamamoto. Yamamoto, I think, is going to step on our dreams tonight. Could be wrong, but that's my prediction. Well, are you, Chris Chapin? I mean, you're going to be your suiting up clearly. What are you playing?

Shortstop? I, you know, I wish. In my dreams, I still play shortstop for the Blue Jays, Ben. But listen, 92, the Jays beat the Braves in six games. 93, they beat the Phillies in six games. So I'm hopeful that history repeats itself that if the Blue Jays are going to win. He just jinxed. Chapin just jinxed.

Now we do it in six games. There's nothing I could possibly do to jinxed. Warren Kinsella, if Chris Chapin has that power to alter the fates of the Blue Jays with a simple phrase, then my God, he's not using his talents. He's not using his talents properly. But I'll end on this. It's been such a wonderful feeling. We've got so much negative news out there.

What the Js have done across this country in bringing us together and putting this wonderful, joyous team together, winning games in exciting ways. And when they lose, they lose in exciting ways as well. I don't think any of us could have predicted this or experienced. expected it. I know we don't deserve it, but we're enjoying it. They're not a, I totally agree. They're not a baseball team. They've healed us. All that Trump 51st state stuff, I've got to call them about this this weekend. They, you know, we've been feeling crummy. The Blue Jays, this team of a mainly American boys,

have made us feel great. God bless them. God bless them. And God bless them both of you. Thank you very much. Enjoy your weekend. Happy Halloween. Go Jays. Go Jays. Thanks, guys. I run to the chaos, and Survivor is chaos. Wednesdays on Global. As a mother of a four-year-old, this is vacation. Canada's number one reality show is back. This is when Survivor turns into a horror movie. It's trial by Earth, wind, water, and fire.

Go! Survivor feels like a culmination of my entire life. Everything has led to this moment. Who will have what it takes? Survivor, new season Wednesdays on Global. Stream on Stack TV.