The Ben Mulroney Show - Our political panel talks about the train to nowhere...

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Guest: Andy Gibbons, Principal at Walgate advisory .  Former vp WestJet   Guest: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty    If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We go through some of the big headlines. We've got Andy Gibbons, principal over at Walgate Advisory, former VP over at West Jets, and Regan Watts, founder of Fratton Park Incorporated, and a former senior aide to minister of finance, the late Jim Flaherty. Hi, guys. Hey, Alex. Oh, so are you. All right.

Lots to go over. You know, this isn't maybe the big, big story, but it's certainly, I think, a big story. But when I hear that the federal government is going to do anything with the high-speed train between Quebec and Ontario, I smell an election. That's just my first thing, thought that comes to mind. But, you know, we started to talk about this issue

because one of the things that would have to happen is the expropriation, right? And in this particular bill that has been put into the budget, the government has given itself extraordinary expropriation powers. Let me kick this one over, and I'll let you start on this one, Andy. You know, the bottom line is people don't have any say when expropriation becomes a thing in their life,

but I don't have the sense that this thing is even going to get a shovel in the ground. And again, when you take these kind of bold actions, it's like putting the cart before the horse, you say what? Well, I say that the cold reality is that for major infrastructure projects like this in Europe and even in Canada, if you look at the St. Lawrence Seaway, expropriation is required. But here's the thing, public trust has to be achieved. So if you look at Alex, what the government did with Mirabelle Airport in Montreal, what is that, 50 years ago, it was a complete disaster that had to be reversed.

So, I mean, they have to establish public trust that this is a project in the national interests. And a lot of people see it as a project that's going to shave an hour off a train time. And is the amount of money being spent really, really worth it? And those are all legitimate questions. but without public trust being built, this could be very problematic for them. Yeah, I mean, the price tag isn't small, Regan, it's $90 billion. But this thing has been promised since, like, I was a kid. Like, I always thought there'd be a high-speed train between Hamilton and Toronto.

I've given up on any of that happening. But, you know, this doesn't do much benefit to anybody, you know, in the West, certainly. And it doesn't really help anybody but that voter corridor between Quebec and Toronto, right? but I think when we start seeing governments give themselves powers to do extraordinary things, then I would like to see a real plan as to like what's happening because we have other big infrastructure projects. You know, Hamilton's trying to get their own line of, you know, transit built, and they expropriate and turn people's lives upside down.

A lot of them in this case would be farmers in that, but they don't even have a plan written up. Well, so a couple things that was one, you'll be reassured to know that thanks to Premier Ford and his government, there is more regular go train service between Hamilton and Toronto. It may not be high speed, but you can get from Hamilton to Toronto more frequently, thanks to Premier Ford, who has made record investments in transit, you know, and deserves credit for that. You know, look, I read the bill and I read the coverage, and I actually completely wholeheartedly agree with Andy about the importance of building public trust. This is a project that has been out there for a couple of years in its current form.

And so, you know, it didn't surprise me to see the project both advanced as part of the major projects office referral process. And the prime minister has been doing with a number of big projects. This happens to be one in Ontario. It's not alone in its priority and profile of the government of Canada. There's a number of projects across the country who are getting that profile. I do think, having read parts of the legislation, and as I understand it, this is just the modernization of federal law to align with. updates that had been made in Ontario and in Quebec to the provincial law. So, you know, there's a bit of housekeeping here.

I'm maybe not as, I'm not ascribing as many nefarious motivations as you might be, Alex. But I understand your point. You know, the fact is, though, we need to build big things in this country. And the government was duly elected and the previous government was also duly elected. And, you know, thank God the long national nightmare of Justin Trudeau is over. But, you know, Prime Minister Carney has identified this as a priority, and, you know, this is something that he wants to move forward. And to move things forward, you need to make changes to laws, regulations, legislation. It's imperative that the Prime Minister and his cabinet build public trust.

But we need to get going on things. And sometimes legislative changes and mechanisms are the way to do it. And, you know, I think it's a wait-and-seat approach for me in terms of how fast the project moves ahead. It is a $90 billion project. There will for sure be some private capital. but at least they are doing the right things from a legislative standpoint to be able to move, and if they need to move quickly, and from my perspective, I think that's entirely defensible. Yeah, look, I'm all about progress.

It's just, you know, far too often people's lives, just everyday people just get completely lost in a shuffle and never get the fair market value that they're promised. One piece of big infrastructure that I am desperate and praying the gut actually gets done is a pipeline, and not just any pipeline. It would be an oil gas pipeline to the coast so that we can start getting our energy, our grand energy out to the world. We're expecting a signing of some kind of deal Thursday.

It sounds like a memorandum of understanding. You know, one of the things that we've heard a lot of, Andy, in the last couple of days, like, look, the Premier Eby's not happy about this. He feels he was left out. But again, ultimately, this is Mark Carney. I mean, he's going to have the ultimate choice on this. Does he make it?

well let's all hope he makes it and and think about how the tides have turned on this Alex I mean it's it's the premier of BC that looks like that looks like the complainer in the family and looks like the outlier and I hope Mark Carney goes to Alberta and says you know what if Alberta's oil belongs to all of Canada so does BC's coasts and that's what Canada is and that's what Canada should be so if that happens tomorrow in that way that's a pretty big day for everyone. And let's see what happens. But I think, you know, if you're in tune with the sentiment in Alberta, I mean, how many times

have they been burned by federal liberals? So, you know, until it's done and until it's real and tangible, I think people are always going to be concerned. And Premier Eby really looks like an outlier here. And I don't know what his polling shows in British Columbia, but it's not a good day to look like you're staying in the way of Canada. And that's what it looks. that's what he sounds like to me.

Yeah, and look, he sounds like a whiny baby, Regan, and I just say that because that's what it appears like. However, having said that, if this is not more than just lip service of a memorandum of understanding, because that's not an actual deal, then it really is just politics. And so, you know, EB doesn't really have to get on board. It would be nice if you got on board,

but this could come down to Carney saying, look, this is federal jurisdiction, and I'm going to push this through. Question is, would he? Well, I think, so a couple things. One, I think you're right in describing the Premier of British Columbia as a baby. I was going to use a different term, which is he sounds like a child. Like if I can't have my way, I'm not playing.

And I think that's the posture that he's taking is very strange. I take my cues on this file, oil and gas energy, from the Premier of Alberta and her remarkable Minister of Energy, Rebecca Schultz. and the people of Alberta, before I take any lessons or cues from, say, federal conservatives on this, because it's Albertans who benefit from the wealth that's created, who do the heavy lifting to extract the oil, et cetera. The government of Canada is advancing national priorities, which is oil and gas extraction. There's almost universal support for more of it, and that is a net positive. That is a good thing.

Does Martin, your question, though, was will Mark Carney do a pipeline or will Mark Carney crank something out? I think he will. But I also think to your point, you know, you said it smells like politics. It's all politics, Alice. That's what's happened. And when I read headlines in the Calgary Herald that, you know, the oil patches, thrills with the new provincial federal energy pact in Calgary, you know, that's not nothing. And it's a remarkable accomplishment that Albertans are cautiously.

optimistic and are buying into the idea that this MOU is a path forward to help them extract their resources which we all benefit from because Alberta oil pays for Ontario's roads and Atlantic Canada's infrastructure and museums and Quebec's rail infrastructure like that's that's the way this country works this federation works and so for me I think the prime minister will build a pipeline I think he's doing the things to get there I think he's bringing people along as he's done on a number of files and if it's good enough for Daniel Smith and Rebecca Becca Schultz, it's good enough for me, and the country will be better for it. Well, time will tell, the fine print definitely needs a big magnifying glass on this one.

Let me pause it there, guys, and then when we come back, we'll get into some of the political plays of the week, including what yours would be. Is it something that Mark said, Mark Carney, that is, that he maybe wishes he did not? We'll talk about that. We've got Regan Watson, Andy Gibbons, joining us here. I'm Alex Pearson. You're listening to The Ben Mulroney Show. The holiday season is full of choices.

Cranberry sauce or gravy, skip rent or skip Christmas. I'm Lieutenant Colonel John Murray of the Salvation Army. When poverty gives someone an impossible choice, your donation is their answer. Donate now at Salvationarmy.ca. In the 70s, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hicks, a senior crime reporter for Global News. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer.

And hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad-free on Amazon music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat. It is The Ben Mal Running Show, and I am Alex Pearson. Great to have you here. Join by Andy Gibbons, principal over at Wallgate Advisory. Also, Regan Watts, founder of Fratten Party. Incorporated. Having both of you to kind of kick around the big headlines,

but I think it's time to get in to this part of the show. Your political play of the week. All right, guys, Andy Regan, there have been all sorts of plays. Let me kick off over to you, Andy. What would you say is the big thing you're either watching, noticed, or is the play? My big play of the week goes to Canada and Alberta's energy industry. because if you think about what's going to happen this week, Alex, and what they've been through,

they've been totally resilient, completely professional. And let's just go through it for a moment, if you don't mind. Think about what this industry has been through. They had Catherine McKenna as a climate change minister, who said when she left politics, her biggest regret was that she had to go to Alberta and pretend that energy CEOs were working in the national interest. Then Greta Thunberg come to Alberta.

They had a prime minister who used the term Tarceney. They had Stephen Glebeau appointed, who's an eco-terrorist, and they had a German chancellor set home by a former prime minister saying there's no case, business case. So when you think of everything they've been through, I can't think of an industry that's been so attacked and vilified so much. Well, you forgot about all the activists and the, you know, all of us, like, it's been decades, right? It's been decades, but politically the government was antagonistic. And the government used their sector to wedge.

and to vilify at times. So the fact that a Canadian Prime Minister is going tomorrow to declare their Canada's an energy superpower and this is the path to get there, even if it's imperfect, Alex, is still a testament to their work. So I think they just deserve full credit for staying the course, presenting the facts, and working with everyone to advance Canada. So I give them the political play of the week and they should enjoy tomorrow based on, like I said, what they've been through the last decade and many decades.

Yeah, again, a baited breath. I will be the first to do my happy oil and gas dance. Okay, I've got my outfit picked out. Having said that, Regan, I mean, look, the bottom line is, it is good for Canada. We do need it. So we'll take that and make that, hopefully, a play of the week. Where's your play of the week coming in up? Yeah, my political play of the week is the two.

The play and the player, I think the play is the same as Andes, which is, you know, The province of Alberta has done what a mature government does when a new prime minister comes in, and the premier and Daniel Smith deserve enormous credit, or does she deserves enormous credit for how she has engaged with the new prime minister and the new administration and the progress that we're making as imperfect as it may be. My player of the week is the prime minister. You know, just to pivot from energy for a second, he did say something stupid in South Africa at his press conference when he talked about who cares right like I and I you know I look it was not it was not a good line from him and he has that in his locker then he does it from time to time but the player

the reason he's the player of the week is because he got up in the house of commons yesterday Alex and said look I made a mistake yeah hold on let me play it so the audience can hear it because it was in question period I was trying to nap and I was like what do you say I woke right up here it is I made a promise to Canadians when I make a mistake I'll admit it that was a poor choice of words about a serious issue, and the serious issue is what progress are we making structurally best deal in the world, strongest budget in the world, and the most new trade deals for the world. Look, he did own it, Reagan, but he does not like being asked questions by girls. Well, look, I don't know that to be true, but I do know that we have a, we have, well, sure,

but we have we have politicians in this country who you know if the sky is blue and and they have previously said the sky is black they will say no no the sky is black you're wrong and and to finally have a prime minister who by the way is a bit like Doug ford in this regard to admit that he misspoke and made a mistake that is authentic and that is what Canadians should expect from their political leaders because we've had 10 years of blathering nonsense with the long national nightmare known as Justin Trudeau. So as a player, you know, the Prime Minister deserves credit for owning up his mistake. And it was dumb.

What he said was stupid. But he owned it. And I think he deserves to be acknowledged for making the quick correction and apologizing. Yeah, I'll be curious as to how many. It has happened a few times. He seems to get away with it, whether we're looking within ourselves. He does not like being asked questions. And he does get away with it.

I'll ask you this, though. It's a bit kind of in a different direction, Andy. what does this do then for Pierre Poliyev, right? Because a lot of these policies are things that he was pushing for. Like he only wanted pipelines, right? So now Carney takes that plank out of Pauliev's book. What does this do then to Pauliev as far as opposition, right? Like assuming that there is a deal and it's not just a memorandum in words.

Where does he then pivot to? I think it feels like a long dark winter for Mr. Polyev, if we're all honest about it. And Mark Carney continues to just knock domino after domino off. And not just the issues, Alex, I think the other thing to watch here is the way in which the Prime Minister conducts himself. A lot of people were stomping their feet and the tanker ban and the emissions cap now, now, now, now, now, now, now.

And he preferred a more methodical approach. And if that result is positive tomorrow, and you mentioned you're going to have a magnifying class and everyone will and rightly so. But it also shows the way. in which the prime minister is governing Canada. And I think that matters as well. For Pierre Pollyev, I mean, I think everyone's waiting for a bit of a reset, a bit of a refresh. Maybe that happens after his leadership vote.

I'm not really sure. But clock is ticking on him. And I don't feel he has days to wait or to waste. And they feel like they're wasted right now in some respect. And I think they just have to get moving. I don't have the answer. I'm curious what are you going to ask to say here in terms of what they do. but this is a big one and he continues to get his knees undercut by Carney.

Yeah, it's tough for Pauliav because even if Carney's snarky, Regan, it's Pauli that hears about it, right? He gets playing for it because he's not allowed to be snarky. But how do you see, look, he's got to get through a leadership vote in January. But if Carney gets something done, if we start to see results, you know, this does make it very difficult to Pauliev, you know, as the opposition. Where does he pivot? Because he has had a lot of wins going after Trudeau, forcing change, stripping out their carbon policies.

Like, there's a lot for Pauliav to throw at him. It's just how does he do it? Well, so a couple things. One, with respect to Mr. Carney and pardon the pun, liberally adopting some of the best elements of the conservative party platform. Literally stealing? Well, stealing, adopting. But, you know, it's all the same. that's a tale

as old as time some of the best ideas from liberals have come out of conservative platforms and that's been the case over the history of this country

you know with respect to Mr. Carney in his political vulnerabilities because this is ties directly to Mr.

Pollyev you know the government of Canada led by the liberals and Prime Minister Carney have for me three vulnerabilities

one is affordability in jobs two is immigration and three is crime now on on crime they've done

a little bit the government, but not nearly enough. And there's a vulnerability there to be attacked in a thoughtful way. On immigration, you know, Justin Trudeau and Sean Fraser and Katie Telford of the rest of these clowns who ran the government destroyed the Canadian consensus on immigration over the last 10 years.

I thought the Prime Minister has now effectively taken that issue off the table with his announcement last month around foreign workers and things like that. And then on affordability, so I don't think there's much there, but I would say until he gets rid of his immigration, the disaster known as his immigration. Asian Minister. I think he's got a little work to do there.

I mean, look, Sean Fraser has the best PR team in Ottawa, and I've said that on this show before. But on affordability and jobs, I thought the budget fell short for regular people. So if I was advising Mr. Polyev, and if he was inclined to listen, which, you know, leaders make their own choices,

I would say I would focus on the crime message and the affordability and jobs message. The budget contained really not much for families. And that's where, you know, the people I talk to in my community, people Andy talks to in his community, That's where people are really feeling the pinch is in their pocketbooks.

And that is where there's a path. The problem Mr. Poliette has, and you know, you've lamented that he can't be snarky. The problem is Mr. Polyev only has one play. He's got lots of tools in his toolbox. There's one play, which is to be snarky. So he has to find a way to be a statement.

You've got to get, Santa to get that smile to him on Christmas Day. Guys, I got to cut it here because I am out of time. But I thank you for yours. There are streaming services, and then there's Stack TV. What you want, when you want it. Action, comedy, drama, reality, all when you want it. Dive into Rick and Morty's latest season.

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