The Ben Mulroney Show - Our political panel weighs in on Foreign Workers Program

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

Guest: Warren Kinsella, Former Special Advisor to Jean Chretien and CEO of the Daisy Group  Guest: Chris Chapin, Political Commentator, Managing Principal of Upstream Strategy -  If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and I want to say welcome to my good friends, Warren Kinsella, who's looking festive to within an inch of his life. And Chris Chapin, guys, welcome to this week in politics, the Friday edition. Ho, ho, ho. Hey, well, listen, we here at the show are quite proud of ourselves today because we helped save some jobs at Tim Hortonson, Grimsby. There was a story that bubbled up to the surface that we carried over the finish line and some about 15 people who were given their walking papers a week before Christmas and because of the attention that we brought to the story, they were able to keep their jobs.

And so very, very happy with that. But if we look at the flip side, we look at the other side of this, A&W restaurants in Quebec are saying that they're going to have to close because Quebecers don't want to work in fast food. And what do you make of that? We'll start with you, Warren. Well, I'm not sure. I used to work in fast food.

I worked at McDonald's, and I didn't eat at McDonald's for 25 years. So, you know, I mean, they're not, they're tough jobs. You know, I clean toilets if you guys can picture that. Actually, you probably can. And it's true. Not a lot of people want to take those jobs for minimum wage and working very hard. And temporary,

foreign workers have and you know all of us know people own restaurants and or run restaurants and places like that and they're all saying they're having a really tough time and some of them sometimes they're having to close down early because they don't have anybody to fill those shifts um you know a lot of Canadians don't want to take those jobs and the temporary foreign workers uh do so that's why i've been surprised by uh what pauliev's been saying about the program um about canceling it entirely, you know, I guess that that's appealing to the base, but it may not be helping a lot of these companies who rely on those workers. I don't know what the solution is, but obviously we've got a problem. Chris Chapin, I don't know who to believe. When A&W says they can't

find anybody in Quebec, Quebecers to work at their restaurants, there's a part of me that just, it doesn't resonate as, it doesn't ring as entirely true. I have no basis in fact to say that? It just feels that, like, of course there would be people in Quebec who would want a job. Any job is a good job. Entry level jobs for kids in high school and early in college. Why wouldn't they want to work there? There's a disconnect for me. You know, it's from the conversations I've had been, I think the sad part is kids don't seem to want to take these jobs anymore. Like these used to be the entry level job for every kid. You'd work at McDonald's. You'd work at A&W. You'd make minimum wage.

but that was fine because you didn't have expenses there's a there's a huge disconnect we have in this country with young kids that we don't want to take those jobs whether you know they think they're below them or they're making money being a you know an influencer on their phone but then on the flip side the other people that used to use those jobs it's just that the cost of living in this country has gotten so high that you can't afford to work full-time at a mcdonalds and live in canada it just it won't put food on your table it won't pay rent i was talking to a good friend of mine who owns a restaurant up north of the city and he was he was joking and kind of lamenting about the fact that once upon a time he was a top

chef at a restaurant and he said he was like there's no way i'd go back to that lifestyle they were paying me 35,000 dollars to be the sous chef at one of the nicest restaurants in the city he's like i couldn't live off that wage he's like but that's the challenge restaurants face that's the challenge places like a and w faces what they can afford to pay them and then what they can afford to sell you the food ad. It just, you know, it's, it's a, you know, we're hitting the obstacles here. All right. Well, I want to spend a little bit of time talking about everybody's favorite floor crosser Michael Ma. He went from, he went from being a conservative one day to a liberal the next. And as I love saying that he got a standing ovation among in the liberal caucus as the

only liberal who voted against the budget. So that, I find that to be just a, it's very 2025. Let's listen to Michael Ma in his own words, because he was on CP24 yesterday, talking about this very difficult decision he made. This is a decisive moment for Canadian economy and the nation as a whole. And the night I attended the Conservative Party, I was truly a conservative member and an MP. I have not made a decision at that point. And so it wasn't until I had the opportunity to confirm my understanding of Prime Minister Carney's approach and his vision for Canada

of course up to that point I have reflected on a lot of the comments as I said from the people I have talked to in Markham Unionville and Canadians at large. See I think this explanation Warren makes things worse. Firstly it demonstrates

that he was in his mind a conservative on one day and the next day became a liberal. There was no political conversion. There was no thought that went into it. Perhaps my values have changed. Perhaps I'm jaded by the political party and now I'm looking at this other party in a new light. None of that happened. This was an immediate, I'm a conservative one day, a liberal the next. Also, because of that short time frame, his justification and explanation that he spoke with people doesn't make any sense. Why would you

be speaking with people if you were firmly conservative on one day? Doesn't make any sense. So I wonder what you think. Yeah, I know, I agree. I can see. people in PMO kind of reaching for a button when he was on the radio to try and get him to stop talking because he's just making it worse. So like I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I'm extremely amused by the angst that conservatives are experiencing over this nobody that nobody can pick out of a police lineup before this week. So that's kind of funny. You know, politicians being self-interested stop the presses. But on the other hand, more seriously, I've always felt you know, for those Tories who became liberals and liberals have become Tories, because they go back

and forth, and new Democrats are on the party as well. You know, people vote not for the person most of the time. They're voting for the party and the party leader. So, you know, I've always believed that if you decide you're going to do that on principle, well, on principle, you need to submit yourself to the people in a by-election and say, do you approve? And who knows? maybe they will, but they don't do that and they don't submit themselves to the people to allow them to pass judgment. And that's wrong because the constituents are the boss. So I think that's what this guy should do. But of course, that is never going to happen. No, of course not. I just found out there are, there have been over 300 floor crossers since Confederation. So this is,

this is a thing that happens, happens a lot. And I don't like it. I was talking with somebody else on another panel earlier this week when I pointed out that the NDP have a policy of not accepting any floor crossers. And my guest said, that would be like me having a policy against dating Taylor Swift. It's just, it's not a pot. It just wouldn't happen. And I love that. That's the best line of the week so far. But this, you know, we're getting into a really tricky territory. And Chris, I'd love for you to start with this. And of course, we'll have a more fulsome conversation on the other side. But Pierre Poliev is saying that, you know, if gaining a majority after the voters told you that they only trusted you with a minority,

he said that's an affront to democracy. And just give me a couple of thoughts real quick, and then we'll talk about it on the other side. I mean, listen, it's not, you know, it's politics. I wish that was true, but like we vote in 338 separate ridings. You know, your local voters send whoever they sent, nobody's voting for a majority. they're voting for who they want to be in office. You know, it's an attempt at trying to spin it. I don't think it's a particularly good one.

You know, do I think it's, do I think this is how you should obtain a majority government? Absolutely not. But is there anything wrong with doing what they're doing? No, I mean, get tougher control over your caucus. All right. All right. Hold on to that. We're going to talk about that more.

We're going to sink our teeth into that when we come back. More with my panel on the Ben Mulroney show next. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show and I just checked my Twitter. And apparently I've been, I'm being trolled by Warren Kinsellis. Can you show me that mug, please? 1983, vintage Aisland mug, a cartoon of your dad, who he loved. And 1983, Montreal Gazette, T-Montaget, T-Mobile. mug and so I'm toasting your dad and you with this tea. Thank you very much, my friend. Thank you.

All right. Let's get back to the here and now and let's get back to the majority government that may happen by way of floor crosser. And I want to humbly submit this counterpoint to you guys after what Chris just said, yes, I appreciate that there's no such thing as the Canadian voter that decided that the liberal government would only get a minority. I concede that point. However, If we look back at the last minority government that we had under Justin Trudeau, typically minority governments fall within 18 months, a little more than that sometimes. And he spoke as a point of pride that it was the longest serving minority government in history. And that's because he had the NDP in his back pocket.

That was not the will of the people. And I think that was one of the reasons people were upset with that man and with that government, because that was not what people gave him. Twice in a row they gave him a minority and the second time he decided to govern like he had a majority. So from that perspective, I do think that this switch over to a majority

could rub some people the wrong way and I understand the justification or the explanation that it could be an affront to democracy, Chris. Yeah, no, I get it, Ben, but I think the difference is where I see it. And I do not want Mark Kearney to have a majority government. You know, I'd like to see us go back to the polls and give Pierre a chance to, you know, make up the ground he lost.

My concern is when it came to Justin Trudeau, that was not going to happen. There were not conservatives in that caucus that would even entertain the idea of leaving to go join the liberal caucus and to help Prime Minister Trudeau get closer. He had to find his supply and confidence agreement with the NDP to try to govern. And so I think there's different ways you can go about trying to get that kind of majority control. of the legislature. Justin Trudeau took a different path, you know, forming his kind of coalition with with Jagmeet Singh. But I think my concern for Pierre Paul, we have in the Conservatives right now is how are you losing these guys from caucus? Because it's such a narrow margin between Mark Carney having a minority government and a majority government. And, you know, we've all heard

the rumors. It sounds like this aren't the only two that there might be a couple more that are willing to cross. And I think that's from, from my perspective, as somebody who wants to see Pierre Paul, we have become the next prime minister, is you've got a problem with your caucus. There are people, as the leader, you guys both know this, you sign the nomination papers. Like these are your candidates. They're your members of parliament. Figure it out. You know, get control over these guys because at the end of the day, it's them leaving you that's going to give Mark Carney the next majority. Warren, the final word on this to you.

I agree everything that my friend, Senator Chapin, just said. And I suspect Mark Carney does too. Now, like, you know, sometimes you can't tell, but like I am a dirty, rotten liberal in my DNA. And like all dirty rotten liberals, I believe the following about politics. It's all about winning. Yeah. It's about winning. And everything else is noise and doesn't matter.

And the bottom line is Mark Carney, who's a newbie, to federal politics who none of us thought would have the skill set he's showing is winning and as chris just pointed out pierre pauliev is losing these people would not be voting with their feet and there are two more it's not just a rumor there are two more coming either after he gets through the leadership review or you know sometime before it the liberals are going to figure out a way to mess them up um it's it's going to happen and you know they're do it's happening because Pierre Polly of leadership is uninspiring to a lot of conservatives. And, you know, not you guys, but I hear from lots of conservatives,

including people in his caucus who are not happy with the guy. So he's going to get through the leadership review, but he's going to lose the next election. So the conservative party's got to figure out what they're going to do. My vote is for Ben Moroni is the next conservative. Hard pass, my friend, hard pass. But thank you very much. You know, one party that actually used to know a thing or two about winning

was the Quebec Liberal Party. And the fact that their leader is stepping down after, what, six months at the helm, does that speak to a party that's on its last legs or needs to reinvent itself? We'll start with you, Warren. Well, I'm not a big fan of Pablo Rodriguez, so I wasn't surprised at all see that happen for all kinds of reasons. But I'm also federalist, and I know you guys are too. And, you know, this maybe improves Lago's position somewhat, but it's bad for the country because the Peltzsche Quebeco are, are ascendant. And have been ahead in the polls substantially for many months.

So we're going to have a situation where we've got an Anglophone prime minister whose French is not as good as your dad's was, you know, facing off against a referendum. They're promising to happen. So that is my concern about the. liberal party disappearing in the way that they're doing, is it maybe it's bad for them, but it's also bad for the country. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that additional dimension to it. Chris, six months is not a long time to lead anything. And there's no way that you can look at this as anything but a

categorical and cataclysmic failure by Pablo Rodriguez. No, you can't. I mean, if we go back, you know, five minutes to Warren talking about being a dirty rotten liberal and that the only thing matters that winning, sometimes they take it over them seriously and forget that, you know, envelopes of cash to party members is actually, in fact, you know, not the appropriate thing to do to try to win, you know, win over hearts and minds. But Warren's spot on. All I will say is, you know, hopefully there's some precedent that we saw here in Ontario back in 2018. We had a PC leader step down and Doug Ford became leader and three months later he became premier. So, you know, there is a possibility to turn the

ship around. I think that's probably a once-in-a-generation kind of outcome. I don't think that's probably going to happen in Quebec, but to Warren's point, I sure hope it does, because I think there is real concern and with the uncertainty across this country and everything that's happening south of the border, the idea of, you know, the separatists being back in charge of Quebec with an anglophone leader, prime minister who openly talks about being from Alberta, even though Alberta, you know, most of the time would rather give them back, I think we have real causes for concern in this country. Yeah, I mean, it used to be a binary choice in Quebec.

You were either a federalist or you were a separatist, and you knew exactly where you were supposed to park your vote. You're either a liberal or party Quebecois. And things have gotten a lot more complicated there. There's a lot more nuance and a lot more political dynamics at play, making it so that the, you know, a resurgence of the liberal party, I'm sure it will happen at some point, but it is not, it is not inevitable and it's certainly not imminent. Warren. No, it's not. And, you know, it's the trend line. That's what guys like us always pay attention to. You know, polls are the cliché cliched snapshot.

You know, you should pay attention to polls over a long period of time. And what the polls are showing over a long period of time is the Quebecers, while they do not support sovereignty at the present time, do support the party that favors independence, not just, you know, sovereignty is association. So that's worrying. And the reason why I pointed out Carney is an anglophone is, you know, guys like you've been in particular would know his French is not where it needs to be. And a number of people have just written about that actually in the past few days. He needs to be more conversant in our other official language. And he's not. And he's just lost, you know, Gibo was a disaster in terms of, you know, the energy file and so on. But he is a senior

your political figure in the province Quebec. So, you know, Carney needs to cast his mind ahead in 2026 to what's happening in Quebec, and is he going to be ready for what's coming, which looks like Putsi-Kibekwa government? Yeah, you're right. I mean, if he's going to be Captain Canada, he needs to be somebody who can, who Quebecers feel, understand them. You don't have to be from there, but you have to allow them to believe that you get them. and I don't know if a Bay Street type is that kind of guy,

but we'll have to see, hey, gentlemen, I want to thank you so much. You've really made this show so much better than it could be without you. I hope you both have a wonderful Christmas and holiday season. Enjoy the end of 2025, and I look forward to seeing you again next year. Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, guys. Happy New Year. Everybody, I have an announcement.

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We broke up. What did you do? What did I do? You have a very aggressive personality. And courtroom chaos. She took my baby. Family law, new season Thursday, January 8th on Global. Stream on Stack TV.