The Ben Mulroney Show - Parks Canada dragging its feet to create national urban park in Windsor

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

- Brian Masse/Former Windsor MP - Dalhousie Faculty association – DFA President Dave Westwood If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You are indeed listening to the Ben Mulroney show, and I appreciate every single one of you who tunes in. Hey, some of you tune every day, some of you every now and then, but I'll take you any way I can get you. Earlier this week, I took issue with Parks Canada and a decision that was made that in my estimation was going to prevent my family, my immediate family from even being around when they finally got around to honoring my father for the work that he did as Prime Minister and specifically for the work that he did for Parks, Canada, and for the environment. And it looks like they have righted that ship. I mean, the whole thing is there's a lot of confusing wording that's been used in a lot of the correspondence. And I don't know it was deliberately opaque or regardless.

It does feel like our issues have been addressed. And it does seem like they took us seriously. And I want to thank Parks Canada for addressing the issue. I really sincerely mean that. However, our next guest has his own battle with Parks Canada to discuss with us. So please welcome to the show. former Windsor MP, Brian, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on, Ben.

I appreciate it very much. So I'm really curious to hear about this. You have been working on a project called the Ojibway National Urban Park. First of all, the name itself is so cool. I want to know more about this project. You know, I appreciate that. And it's exciting. I also want to just recognize one of the things that your father also do is the Canada-U.S.

Rain Accord, which really affects where I'm from is Windsor, Ontario down right on the border here. So I don't want that to be not noted because that was really important for our Great Lakes and also other lakes for acid rain. So thank you for that work from your family. Essentially what we're doing down here is trying to get a national urban park built. And I had a private member's bill in the House of Commons that actually passed with only one opposition to it that would unite all public property that is currently owned by the city of Windsor, also a piece of property that the federal government finally got we got around the bind that would actually protect five. 550 endangered species. So because we're so far south,

we have special species down here from dragonflies to fox, the snakes, a whole series on a smaller piece of property, which is very diverse. So that passed the House of Commons, got delayed in the Senate. Then most recently, it's been backtracked from legislation to be some policy, and we still haven't seen it passed despite the political movement that was supposed to be promised. So, again, this is a piece of property that would be wrapping around by the new Gordi Howe Bridge that we have. Sure. And it would be an area where we have so many endangered species that we get it protected. And lastly, in our area, because we were basically a forest, but then we did the, you know, the forestry sector took out of that land, then an agriculture, then manufacturing.

We have very little natural environment. So it's huge for our sustainability. Yeah. So talk to me. I'm trying to imagine. And for a lot of the listeners of the show, the idea of a national urban park is probably quite new. And so are there analogs? Are there examples of other national urban parks in Canada? Is this following a best practice? Yes, actually, Ben, that's a great question. And there is one in this is called the Rouge in Toronto region.

And that was done by a number of different initiatives over the years. What's unique about ours is ours doesn't have any private property involved. so it really is basically ready to go. So yeah, it should be an easy. It should be. It should be. This is a government that likes to pride itself on its environmental bona fides to create a national green urban space inside of a city sounds exactly on brand. So in your estimation, where are the pain points?

What's slowing this down? Well, they want to do a public policy of urban parks. And that problem with that is it doesn't make it sustainable the way that real, national parks are created. And so it would be less permanent. It would have more challenges with jurisdiction and it would be kind of just making it a park and national scope and name. And so the community down here wants the real deal because that's what my legislation called for and that's what people voted for. And we worked with them to get there. The problem is political will from the federal government right now, just quite frankly, the Carney government and with

Giebeau, the minister, who they want to create some, they don't even have the process, the policy completed yet. It's all experimental. So what we've said is we're ready to go, cooperate with the city of Windsor, cooperate with First Nations that are supporting this, and create it under legislation like every other national park. So it's no longer kind of an off-suit. I mean, to me, again, not only does a Seamon brand for this brand of liberal in 2025,

But the political benefits for the government would be great. As you just said, you've got a lot of First Nations that have buy-in on this. Why wouldn't you want to do something that doesn't really cost a whole lot? It's ready to go. There's buy-in from First Nations. Get on side with them. It's a win for everyone. And not for nothing.

This Prime Minister has made it clear as he talks about cuts that he wants to see to, you know, in reducing the size of the public service. you know, he cautioned against the institutional knowledge that comes from being a long-term public servant who prioritize process over outcome. And this to me is an example of something being slowed down because process is being valued over this outcome that so many stakeholders want. That is exactly it. I mean, it's basically a turnkey operation in many respects because this is a decade in the

movement down here to build the actual case for the urban park and then also to develop the legislation. And by the way, when they wanted fixes to the legislation, I rewrote the legislation. I'm a former member of parliament for almost 23 years with the minister's office in Parks Canada. So with Gibo's office and with Parks Canada, we rewrote in the Senate the changes that the federal government wanted. And at the last minute, at the end of the last parliament, they decided to actually backtrack again. And so even though they all voted in the House of Commons for it, They were not supportive of it going through the Senate. We finally got that done, and again, they found another problem.

So, I mean, it's just, it's hard to understand because I also got U.S. support for this. There's Rashida Talib, Stephanie Chang, a whole series of it because they have environmental works on the Detroit side that naturally fit the ecosystems on our side. So it's actually a huge win for us internationally when we have trouble with the U.S. right now. Here's one where we're actually on the same page together. I also want to drill down a little bit on what you said about how within this urban area, there are 500 plus endangered species that are existing in this ecosystem. I mean, this is my fear, Brian, is that the government, I mean, if this isn't turned into an urban park soon, a national urban park soon, then something's going to happen.

We saw it happen in the city of Toronto years ago in the 70s, 80s and 60s, 70s and 80s, where there were massive swaths of crown land that were originally intended to be turned into massive parks and bit by bit for all sorts of reasons they were sold off or they were rezoned and we found ourselves without that green space that a city like Toronto could use. I fear that that would happen with these plots of land that you're talking about. Absolutely. We're really blessed by the fact that City Windsor's been a great partner in this. Mayor Dilkins has been supportive.

So they're keeping an eye on this. So they're essentially tending the shop, making sure that the government doesn't come in and just accidentally sell this off or turn it into something that you can't turn it then back into a park with. Well, yeah, or just not have the proper planning in place because the city actually has most of this property. The federal government only has one of the pieces of property. The rest are owned by the city Windsor. There was another section of the province of Ontario that we would assimilate with it too, but they got cold feet, but we can work on that. But mostly this is city Windsor already property. So the city's offered this up at no cost of the federal government other than.

taking it to the highest level of protection and also supports, and money has been budgeted and allocated, but for political reasons, the government still is stuck on this policy that they want to create, which is not sustainable in terms of protection of legislation. And lastly, it will not create the partnerships for longevity, which we need, because why would we put this at a sub-level and not protect it when we can actually attract other investment from not-for-profits, from NGOs, from private citizens, once you actually have the best standard. So it just makes no sense whatsoever, but they have their own agenda, apparently, and they want the tough road versus the easy solution, which we could have this open. And we're supposed to open it,

actually, this month coming up. That's a disappointment. But here, listen, here's hoping that when they come back in the fall with a new priorities and reinvigorated, and here's hope, and they revisit this, because this, to me, this is not a political issue. This is not a left or right thing. This is an idea of a, of a park in the middle of a city that's so, it would just be cool to have it. there. Anyway, I want to thank you really, Brian, for joining us on the show for highlighting this. And hopefully somebody in Ottawa heard this and we can affect the change that the people of Windsor want. Thank you very much. I appreciate your thoughts on this and the opportunity

I'll just close with this, almost full circle that also your father was part of the Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement that was renewed in 1987. So full circle for how this actually should be going and do it the right way that we should be doing. Brian Massey, I appreciate it. I hope to talk to you again soon thank you at the nissan all in clear out there's nothing more chill than financing an award-winning nissan for just zero percent enjoy the soothing relaxation of zero stress zero worries zero indecision hurry in because once they're gone there will be zero left during the nissan all in clear out gets zero percent financing plus up to five hundred dollars bonus on some of our best best-selling models. You have zero reasons to wait. Conditions apply. See your local Nissan dealer today.

This is the Ben Mulerney show. Welcome. Welcome and thank you so much for joining us. As I've said, today's my final day this week. I believe Alex Pearson will be sitting in for me here on the Ben Mulroney show tomorrow, but I will be back on Monday, armed with wonderful stories of my adventure out west in Victoria. One of the great guests and friends of the Ben Mulroney show is the food professor. Professor Sylvain Charles-Lebois, and he is a professor at Dalhousie University, but I believe he's on a sabbatical at McGill right now. And I saw on his Twitter feed yesterday that Dalhousie University has locked out its professors. There is an issue with the contracts of the professors. And so about a thousand professors, librarians, and teaching staff at Dow were locked out yesterday morning, less than two weeks before the beginning of the fall term.

A lot of questions about what this means, not just for the staff, but for the students who kind of depend on all of these people to get their education. And so to talk about this, we're joined by the DFA President Dave Westwood. Dave, welcome to the show. Hi, Ben. Great. Thanks for the invitation to chat with you. And nice to meet you. So tell me what the problem is as you see it is. Well, so as you mentioned, we're in collective bargaining. So at its core, that's the issue. It's a classic management labor situation. We've been in regular negotiations since around May and quickly reached an impasse

primarily over wages, but other issues as well. And we were all very surprised to learn that the administration's approach was going to be a lockout of, as you mentioned, academic staff, the people who do the lion's share of the work at the university in terms of why students come two weeks before classes. So it's a very puzzling and confusing twist. It's left everybody wondering what the heck's going to happen come September. So tell me, Dave, when was the last time you guys had a contract? Like, how long was this previous contract?

So our contracts are usually three years, and the last one was no exception. It ran until the end of this June. Yeah. And so, you know, we were in, as I said, regular routine three-year bargaining cycle. Sure, but, yeah. But, Dave, there's been nothing routine about sort of the economy and inflation. over the past three years, you know, and so, you know, I'm reading here that, you know, you as a faculty have experienced a 9% loss in real wages over the past decade.

I don't think anybody expected to see that. And so what were you hoping, how were you hoping this was going to be resolved? What were you asking for and what were they going to give you? So, as you mentioned, we're in a bit of a hole like many workers across this country and why we're seeing so much labor action at the moment. So we're 9% in the whole over the last decade. So our goal was to try to catch some or all of that up and keep pace with inflation in the next three years,

which as we all know with the tariff issues going on are likely to keep pushing inflation higher. So like most workers, that was our goal, not to get wage increases to be clear, but simply to... I mean, I've heard, I was following the Canada Post strike and what they were asking for versus what you're asking for. You know, your demands modest in comparison into the postal workers.

Well, it's interesting to hear you say that because from our members, there's a sort of sense of almost a guilt of saying, look, some senior full professors that are, you know, been at Dow for 35 years, yes, we do make very good wages, but we're also, you know, very well trained and so forth. But it's really our junior colleagues that are the ones feeling the biggest pinch. Like any workplace that has a mixture of sort of more senior and junior people, the junior ones are, you know, the ones experiencing the high costs of rent and housing, food, child care and they pick an issue that isn't expensive these days. And I think it's really sort of open

people's eyes to say things like, well, you know, if professors are feeling the pinch, then, you know, what about all the workers everywhere? I mean, these are huge, huge society-wide problems right now. And, you know, I'm glad for one that we have a union that's able to stand up for workers and push back. But, you know, not everybody is so fortunate. So I have to assume that the administration is pleading poverty. They're saying, you know, we're cash strapped. We've got, we don't have enough dollars to go around. Is there any understanding, of their position from you? Is there, like, how do we get to a place where there's understanding?

Yeah, absolutely. And we've been very upfront with our members and the public. We are not acting and pretending as though Delhousie doesn't have financial challenges. Absolutely, they do. And some of them are at the level of provincial funding. I mean, higher education is a provincial responsibility at the end of the day. And across Canada, the provinces have not been, you know, recognizing the increased complexity and costs of running, like, world-leading research-intensive universities.

It's expensive, and, you know, provincial funding hasn't kept pace. And the international enrollments was a big challenge. Well, that was going to be my next question. I mean, it's reached a crisis point in a province like Ontario that was bringing in a lot of foreign students who pay a far higher tuition rate. And so there are, I mean, the good news is there are more spots for Canadian, you know, Canadian-born students. to attend. However, it's bringing in less money. Is that a problem for DAL as well as it is in Ontario? Yeah, absolutely. In fact, it wasn't predicted to be as big of an issue because, you know, Dow's particular quota of international students wasn't going to be changed much, but there was

this overall chilling effect internationally where folks were saying Canada as a whole is no longer an attractive place to go as a student. So yeah, certainly DAL has lost international enrollment. And as you mentioned, I think you mentioned, the tuition for international is far greater. Yes. So the loss of each international student has a really big impact on budgets. But I mean, I think it's been covered elsewhere. The reason the universities

increased that, you know, international push was because funding had not kept pace with requirement. And so there was no alternative for revenue but to do this. So let me ask because caught in the crossfire, you know, I hope everybody comes to an agreement that makes sense for everyone, but caught in the crossfire are university students who are hoping to start their classes in a few short days.

What are you hearing from them? What are you telling them? What can they expect two weeks from now where classes are supposed to start? Well, okay, so a lot of questions there. Yeah, a lot of them. I'll say to students, and if anybody's listening who's thinking of coming back to Dow this fall, is the start of the fall term is completely uncertain at this point. When you lock out staff two weeks before the term begins,

we were supposed to be preparing the labs and syllabi and course materials for you, and we're not able to do that. You know, our employer said, go home, get out of your office, and hit the picket line. So we're doing that. So students are going to have a very confusing and difficult experience. It could be a week delay to the start of the term. It could be a month. We can't predict, and neither can the university.

So, yeah, students are definitely caught in the middle, and we feel terrible. I think, you know, folks understand that professors and students have a very important and unique working relationship. And there's a lot of mutual respect and understanding. Students at Dalhousie have been very vocal in their support for our members. They're confused and angry about this as well. They pay a lot of money, as you know, to come to school. And they deserve a good quality experience.

And I'm worried they won't get it this year because of this lockout. It's a very aggressive and unprecedented move. I don't know if you've mentioned that yet. For a big research-intensive school like Galhousie to lock out faculty, this is the first time it's ever happened. Oh, interesting. Dow can, I guess, you know, Dow Board may give itself a pat on the back maybe to say, hey, we're number one, but it's not a number one with distinction.

It's a really dark mark on the reputation of this 200-year-old institution. Listen, like I said, I have great respect for faculty, for how hard you work and what you do for students. I do hope that you are able to come to an agreement where this semester can be salvaged. because honestly, my heart is going out as well to the students, some of whom had a big chunk of their education derailed because of COVID, only to now see this new chapter possibly upended at the very beginning. It's just, it's really, really, it's disheartening. It's disheartening.

How long are you, are you guys prepared to be on the outside looking in here? Well, we're prepared for a very long labor disruption in terms of, you know, the union's financial ability. We're not looking to do that. I mean, the longer this goes on, yeah, the term becomes in jeopardy, and that's not good for anybody, especially students,

but also our faculty. I'm not really sure when this will be resolved, this, you know, full disclosure. We have a vote that's underway, actually. That's another weird aspect of this situation. Our members were voting on an offer from the employer. While the boat was still open and active,

the lockout happened. So, I mean, it sounds like you're a little. alluding to bad faith here. Well, I don't know about alluding. I think I may be saying it. I was trying to be diplomatic there for you, Dave. Thank you. Hey, listen, I've got to run.

I've got to run, my friend. Thank you for giving us a snapshot of how things are. I'm really sorry that you guys are dealing with this, but I do hope for a swift resolution that makes everybody happy. Thank you. Me too. Thanks so much for taking the time. And hi, hi, all the listeners.

That was Dalhousie Faculty Association President, Dave West. And of course, we will keep everybody on top of this labor disruption at one of our great Canadian institutions. I'm Mike Brown, and along with my co-host, Matthew Stockton, we uncover the sinister side of Canada on the award-winning true-crime podcast, Dark Putine. Each Monday, we dive into chilling criminal cases, eerie historical events, strange disappearances, and spine-tingling tales of the paranormal, all with a uniquely Canadian twist. With over 300 episodes to binge for free,

our stories reach far beyond Canada's borders, drawing in curious minds from around the world. If you're drawn to the dark, the mysterious, and the downright weird, it's time to join us. To explore the shadowy side of the true north, search for dark puteen. That's P-O-U-T-I-N-E on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you're listening right now.