The Ben Mulroney Show - PEI China land grab story takes a turn -- investigation documents to be released

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

GUEST:  Dean Baxendale /   President and Publisher of Optimum Publishing International GUEST: Garry Clement / former national director for the RCMP’s Proceeds of Crime program  If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Together, let's provide hope and instill dreams. Sponsorship opportunities and tables are available. For more details, visit hope in the city, Toronto.ca. That's hope in the city, Toronto.ca. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. I should say welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. It's the Thursday edition. We're the 13th of November and thank you so much.

But if you go back just over a month, we highlighted a story, which I think is of national importance and of national concern that hasn't really gotten the attention that I think it deserves. And we always say, look, once we talk about something, unless something new pops up, unless there is a new aspect to the story. We're not going to really, we're not going to beat that drum until something new pops up.

Well, a month ago, there were allegations of Chinese foreign interference. In of all places, Prince Edward Island, and it involved two Buddhist groups. It involved the Great Wisdom Buddhist Institute, the Great Enlightenment Buddhist Institute society. And the core claims of the problem have been detailed in a new book by the, the, well, we've got two of the people involved. We've got Gary Clement, the former national director for the RCMP's Proceeds of Crime Program, and Dean Baxendale, the president and publisher of Optimum Publishing International, who, rather than me, go down this rabbit hole alone, let's bring them both in,

and we can talk about the issues. We only have Dean right now. We'll have Gary in a moment. But, Dean, welcome to the show. Ben, thank you very much. It's great to be here with you today. So when I had Gary on the show just over a month ago, we talked about, about sort of the bombshell claims that were popping up in the news,

but I don't think they went as far or as deep as they needed to go to suggest that by way of these Buddhist groups, it appeared that the Communist Party of China, at least these were the allegations, the Communist Party of China was building up sort of a beachhead, for lack of a better expression, on Canadian soil. Is that fair to say? I think it's fair to say,

but I think that we need to separate the Bliss and Wisdom Monastic group from the corporation, global corporation that it is, that also has direct ties into Chinese commerce and product and opportunities for trade with Canada, and look at the, you know, the sort of topology and the timeline for Prince Edward Island, which unfortunately, you know, had a provincial nomination program or nominee program, which was to bring in new immigrants to the province, new investments, et cetera. Well, this one, which was starting, in around 2005 through 2010-11 iteration was a vehicle in which many new corporations formed on the island, thousands to be exact, to get money from immigrants coming from all over the world,

but primarily China, Hong Kong, and some from Taiwan to bring money to the province for investment. The idea was to broaden out Prince Edward Island and take it to a new level. Yeah. Dean, hold on it. We got, Gary is joining us now. And Gary, if you can dovetail into what Dean was just saying and talk to us, just so our listeners who are new to this story can get a sense of, you know, what has, what has changed on the island since, since this, uh, since this, uh, this movement to sort of accumulate land by particular groups. Like how, how much land do they have? How over over, over a period of How many months or years did this happen? And at what point did it ping on the radar of, you know, Canadian officials that this might, this might not be right? I'd like to say it pinged on the officials.

I'm not sure it did until we started really breaking this story in detail. It was always viewed as, from what I can see and from what our investigation uncovered is viewed as an economic benefit, but as you dug into it, Ben, and I realize that the acquisition of land, I mean, it's, it hasn't been finalized, but I think an investigation will show it's upwards of 17,000 acres in total, and that's got to be obviously determined, but it appears that way on the surface. And what you're looking at is that if you were going to look on the island today and you look at the large buildings that have been constructed, they really cover all points on the island.

These are large alleged monasteries for monastic purposes. I think that's questionable. Some of it is. There's no doubt about it, but I think there's other purposes in mind. And Gary, before you continue, let me just, like, I want to go on the record. I am not the we're referencing

these religious groups I am not trying to cast aspersions or doubt the you know make anybody fearful of one group over another

but so so so what happened here that that became a cause of concern for you and for people investigating this

because there's nothing wrong with a religious group buying property or building a religious monument or temple absolutely

I like J. Can I just quickly say this? Sorry. Please, go ahead. The Bliss and Wisdom has been operating in Taiwan since 1994. The original founders, Master Xi Chang, and the venerable Abbott, Fan Yin, were part of this. They were working with the Chinese Communist Party. They were working with Tibet, Dharma Salah, to promote Tibetan Buddhism.

The virtues of the organization from that perspective are genuine and pure. there's much real, real good taking place, but there are other things going on behind the scenes. All right. Gary, Gary, you want to jump in? Yeah. I think what you've got to look at is when you delve into it, and you look at the sort of the history after the original masters disappeared from the P.E.I. You end up having this master's in. She's a female lay person. If you were to look at how she arrived down the island with, The only way to describe it is bodyguards that brought her in for the immigration interview. She is Chinese.

There is indications that has to be proven yet that she probably is tied very strongly to the PRC government. And if you look at the teachings and Dean has done a great job of dealing with the Buddhist organization, establishing that she is not tied to the Buddhist organization. And so what we're looking at is this layperson, definitely tied to the PRC government. We're looking at individuals, and I believe, I really believe it's like you said. I think a lot of the individuals that are there honestly believe that they're there for the purpose of studying under a monastic purpose. And, but I would suggest the leadership knows very well what's going on with the amounts

of money that are flowing into the island, with the amounts of cash being paid out, with the amounts of cash going into bank accounts, specifically one was the bank of Nova Scotia. And you have to question, I mean, if it flies in the face of what we're going to, we understand the mastic groups are. Yeah. And so that's where the concerns actually came in. And then the acquisition plan and the way they run about it and paying people cash under the table and acquiring all these and leaving areas of Prince Edward Island without residence. Okay.

So let me let me just, I want to make sure that I am sort of tying this all together so it makes sense because it's such a wild story. And there's so many new dynamics at play here that most people aren't used to. So if I'm understanding correctly, there are a number of Buddhist groups who on a very real level are good faith religious people who came to PEI for good faith reasons. But the allegation is that somehow perhaps surreptitiously there has been a political component that has been woven into their mission. and that political component is exhibiting itself in suspicious behavior that Gary, you just laid out in terms of banking and in terms of land acquisition. And so you've got people who are living that Buddhist life in a way that makes perfect senses and is completely in keeping with what you would expect.

But there's all this other stuff that is suspicious. Is that a fair assessment of what we've been saying thus far? Yeah, I think that's fairly accurate. It's a good way to describe it then. Okay, so Dean Baxendale and Gary Clement, don't go anywhere. We're going to continue with this conversation after the break, including I'm going to ask you, what would the Buddhists be getting out of this? And what are our fears about the worst case scenario of what could be transpiring on the island of PEI?

And lastly, I'm going to ask you, what can be done about this and what isn't being done about this? So don't go anywhere. The Ben Mulroney show continues. Let's face it, finding your next favorite podcast can be tough. But that's about to change. Curious cast discovery is the destination for award-winning podcasts from true crime and history, like crime beat. Documentaries like Stop, Rewind, The Lost Boy,

music with Uncharted, and even the paranormal, like Dead Man's Curse, all 100% ad-for. for less than the price of a coffee. Curious cast discovery. Available now on Apple Podcasts for just $4 a month. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. All right, something smells fishy on the island of Prince Edward. And we're discussing what that means.

There are a number of Buddhist organizations that have bought up massive tracts of land. And the suspicion is that perhaps surreptitiously and maybe In certain cases, without their knowledge, these Buddhist religious initiatives have been co-opted by members of the Chinese Communist Party. To what end? We're going to discuss next with our guests, Dean Baxendale and Gary Clement. Gary is a former national director for the RCMP's Proceeds of Crime Program. And Dean is the president and publisher of Optum Publishing International. These guys have literally written the book on this.

Guys, welcome back. Thank you so much. I've got to ask, how would the Chinese government get into bed with Buddhist organizations? What little I know of China is there's not a whole lot of love loss between the Chinese political class and the Buddhist religion. Well, Ben, let me take a stab at that because I've done extensive work with Tibet, with the Central Tibetan administration. And optimum publishing actually is publishing a seminal book in a few weeks, which is Tibet has never been part of China since antiquity. So one of the key goals for re-unification of Taiwan with China is through Tibetan religion. The infiltration of monastic groups in Taiwan has been going on for a better part of 20-plus years.

This is known to us. There are substantial reports by many different organizations, scholars to which we spoke to on this, and reports given to me by the Central Tibetan Administration on this subject. So the idea is influence operation in Taiwan, unified Taiwan through religion, but also there's been another element to this, which is the infiltration of triads and organized crime groups within these domestic groups to do various different aspects. This is also something documented by MOFA, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, for Taiwan, et cetera. It's influence operation, but there's also, it was really, you know, it comes down to

economics, then. Money, there's money coming to the island, construction is happening. A lot of people were getting wealthy, and they were building their own. a thousand-year monastery on the island. Well, I wanted to give you, I wanted to give our listeners, and Gary, then I'm going to turn the microphone over to you with another question, but I wanted to give our listeners an idea of how big of a land grab this has been. So I asked my producer, Mike, to compare the size of these tracts of land relative to the size

of Prince Edward Island. And then I said, if these groups had bought the same percentage of land in a province like Ontario, How big of a property would they own? And according to the back of the napkin math that Mike Droulet did, he said that if this land scheme were to happen in Ontario at the same percentage as it did in Prince Edward Island, it would be significantly larger than the cities of Toronto and Ottawa. Like that's how big of a land deal this is in that province. So this is not an insignificant amount of land.

Gary, what are the fears here? Like I said before, people buying land who aren't from here, we don't have a problem with that. We have systems in place that allow that to happen. What are we genuinely fearful of? Well, I think you've got to look at China, and that's been well reported on, came out with our idea of a belt and rolled initiative working out throughout around the world, helping countries, and they have built infrastructure.

in all through the Caribbean, Trinidad, Tobago, Suriname, Guyana, Dominga, Antigua, Barbados, and Jamaica, and Dominican Republic. What does that mean? Well, we got access to ports, natural resources, and political relationship, which all become leverage points. PEI lends itself fantastically to this because they're small, the parallels, easier access to political leadership, which I hate to say, There's all kinds of, I would say, elite capture that occurred on the island. And whether it amounts to corruption, I'm not sure, probably abuse of power, without a doubt. There's strategic location of PI. It's a potential foothold for broader influence.

So, you know, you look at it, yeah, there was some economic growth that occurred, but at what cost? And what does this mean, you know, God forbid, we get in another conflict. But let's say we do. Let's look at the strategic location of where this is located. And what are the applications on the size of these monasteries? We heard things like they hoped to bring in 40,000 Chinese was one number, 80,000 was a second number. When you compare that to the population, P.I., that's fairly significant. Yeah. I mean, I think, isn't the population of PI somewhere in the 300,000s?

I don't even think it's that much, but I might be... 175,000. It's 175,000, and there are rumors and fears that because they've got all this property, they could secretly, somehow secret 80,000 Chinese people onto the island. I don't think secretly. No. I think there's a plan also to turn it into a Harvard-like university. they're built the ideas to build campuses to bring people to the island so there's a lot of different

plans and those plans they laid out actually they're in the in the planning committee so you know these were these some of these plans were approved in terms of the development okay so that's where the rest of this conversation has to go the why are we having this conversation today I mean these are all concerning theories and fears some I'm sure have been confirmed like you just said based on the planning committee and those and those what's been written and submitted and others are speculation based on your years of expertise. But they always say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. But this feels like you got to question it.

This feels like the powers that be, the people that we have in power, should be a check and a balance against any nefarious plot that anybody might have. What has been the reaction to this, to everything that we've described by the RCMP, by our security agencies, by the. the island, the government on the island itself. Gary can talk, I will say this, we've been contacted, or one of our key people is being contacted by CESIS, but not directly from the investigative team. I will say that the RCMP has done nothing from, in terms of investigating directly,

but what we are seeing is that islanders who have looked into this and have been being concerned have formed their own coalition to start questioning what's going on and put pressure on politicians to make change. And hence, we're starting to see that with yesterday's story. And Gary, you want to add to that? I think the only thing I'll add. I think the politician says, you know, Iraq was supposed to be this body that oversaw the land requirements in Prince Edward Island. Yeah, Iraq stands for Island Regulatory and Appeals Commission. Yeah, thanks.

I think, Ben, if you look at that, what's happened, there are ties into former government of Cox and Palmer who represent all the monasteries. All of this is showing this lack of arm's length relationship. We're now hearing, in fact, being got it yesterday, we're hearing about there was a substantial amount of money paid for an investigation. Yeah. And they allege that they have no documents or anything. anything on it. Well, you and I both know we've been around long enough in this world to know

that that's impossible and they're trying to bury it. Well, in October of this of last year, oh, no, of this year, I'm sorry, October 2025, the premier of PEI, Robert Lance, formally requested the feds led by the RCMP and Fintrack, Canada's anti-money laundering agency, to look into the allegations. The province's own, as you said, Island Regulatory and Appeals Commission is also conducting an ongoing investigation into the land holdings. But based on the conversation we're having here, Gary, it doesn't seem like you think it's going to amount to much.

No, and that is the reason, and that's why I wholeheartedly, and I know Dean does as well, we wholeheartedly support the call for a federal public inquiry. It cannot be independent in PEI. There's just too many people that are connected to what's going on down there. And if we really want, if Canada really wants to know what's going on, it's going to require a federal public inquiry. Well, guys, this has been a really, it's a complex story to untangle. It is important. I'm frankly shocked that I haven't heard more coming out of Ottawa on this.

You would think, you know, national security, our relationship with, you know, a country as important as China is to us. We're not necessarily, certainly not allies, but, you know, this, this is going to muddy those waters and complicate that relationship even further. And I thank you guys for being here to shine some light on it. Thanks very much, man. Wow, this is just bananas. As this story evolves, of course, we will share it with you.