The Ben Mulroney Show - Podcast 2 - Fallout from the Junior Hockey trial and remembering Hulk Hogan

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

- Sean O'Shea/ Global News - John Pollock / POST wrestling   If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Twitter: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ TikTok: ⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I mean, women are already not comfortable reporting to police, going through the criminal justice system and that was before today and I feel like we have taken many steps back and so now we have to work harder to show women that they're not alone and that they will be believed. You know it was pretty frustrating but not surprising. This is oftentimes the result that sexual assault survivors and victims experience when they go through a court system so not very surprised at it. I think what was a bit surprising was the amount of victim blaming in the judgment and the amount of rape myths that were used as as evidence for the decision.

And that was the scene outside of the court yesterday Following the verdict of not guilty for the five hockey players. It was quite the scene We're joined now by somebody who was there who could give us the pulse give us a sense of what the lay of the land was Global reporter Sean O'Shea Sean. Thanks so much for being here. Hi Ben so from from our vantage point here as we as we Sensed that this verdict was gonna come down the way it was and the Judge was laying out her reasoning and it was pretty clear. She was going to end where she did Uh, I sensed that things were going to no one was going to be happy with this verdict No, and and I think that still stands today ben. I mean the the judge really it was almost a total evisceration

Of the evidence that was given by the complainant, it was almost a total evisceration of the evidence that was given by the complainant, which led to these charges. The judge, Maria Carasia, at the outset, I mean, she spoke for hours reading out this very, very long decision, but you knew where it was going because after she started and gave an introduction, she basically said that she didn't believe EM, didn't find her credible her credible and from that point you knew that there were going to be acquittals. Yesterday I had a conversation with lawyer Katherine Marshall who suggested that had these charges been brought earlier, years earlier when they could have been brought, her memory might have been better, her reliability might have been better and all of this could

have played out differently. Do you see it the same way? I think you're right and she's right. I mean the problem here was this happened seven years ago. It was June of 2018. So she gives a witness statement to the police then they don't carry through and file charges. Then she sues through hockey Canada gets a settlement. There was a statement there a statement of claim. Then the London police relaunch an investigation. It gives another interview and evidence there. And so the defense lawyers, five of them, skilled Toronto lawyers, except for one from Windsor,

they had lots to work with finding inconsistencies. I don't know about you, Ben, but I can't remember necessarily what I did two weeks ago, let alone eight years ago on a given day. And so they played these little pieces of, you said this then, why are you saying this now? There was lots of room, there was a you know room for a truck to drive through that that body of evidence and and they were successful. And the judge you know to the chagrin of a lot of the people who supported EM, she really just totally undermined everything that EM had said under under cross-examination and giving her evidence

over a period of almost nine days. Yeah, but from what I understand, that was a very taxing, emotional, very difficult nine days for her to endure with five different lawyers coming at her from different angles, asking her to explore her testimony from different angles, always trying to possibly trip her up,

very, very difficult for, and Sean, you know, I was going back yesterday in my mind to the Jian Gomezi trial, and I was comparing that to this. If I am an advocate for victims' rights in situations like this, I'm looking at this result, and I'm saying not much has changed.

Well, I went to the protest, the demonstration outside the court and last night where there were 60 or so women and men talking about that very point. And they said that this particular judgment in their view, is going to be negative from the point of view of discouraging others who have legitimate claims from coming forward. I mean, the statistics here are something like 6% of people who have a valid sexual assault claim

will come forward to police because they're afraid of how they're going to be dealt with through the legal and judicial system. And people were telling me from the various sexual assault centers in Ontario that already in the wake of this decision, that they're hearing so much negativity and concern and fear.

So I guess we'll have to see. The justice that was served last, you know, yesterday afternoon on Thursday is that's the legal court, but the court of public opinion then is really still split on this. Well, absolutely, because here you've got these look, this is objectively, this is the result that should have come from this case. I think a lot of people agree, maybe the case should have been brought sooner, but the fact that it was brought the way it was

and when it was means these guys should have gotten, received this judgment of not guilty. And so people can be frustrated, but it kind of is the system that we have. Now that being said, these guys walk out with a not guilty verdict but they don't walk out innocent correct and and to emphasize what you just said the NHL in a statement released to global news Thursday said that these players remain ineligible to play in the National

Hockey League at least for now because the league says that they want to review this decision now they may well at some point change their mind, but at this point, they're not eligible to play in the NHL. The Players Association isn't very happy about that. So you can be found not guilty in a court of law, but the NHL in their statement to Global News also said that the conduct was not acceptable. And so that's going to be an issue going forward.

So you're right. I mean, they're found not guilty criminally, but the stigma is attached to them and that's how it works in our society. I've got a wonder though, this behavior has been well known, it's been publicized for years. If the NHL knew that no verdict was going to let them play, I don't know why they waited till the trial was over to announce that.

They could have told these guys months ago that they would be ineligible them play. I don't know why they waited till the trial was over to announce that. They could have told these guys months ago that they would be ineligible to play. The fact that they did this after the fact makes a lot of people who were standing on the side of the hockey players scratch their heads and say, wait, hold on a second. Well, what else were they supposed to do? And now you're going to deprive them

of seeking their livelihood at their chosen profession. So I can see a challenge coming on for that from that. Yeah, that's possible. You're right. And again, this may be a time limited thing where they say we're going to review it takes a month and then they come back in a month and say, we're we'll satisfied with what the court said that that represents the opportunity for these guys to get back into it. They're not prohibited from playing in other places in other parts of the

world. That's a whole different issue. And then with respect to a possible appeal of this decision, we heard from the Crown Prosecutor who said she was gonna say very little about that because they have 30 days in a window to decide whether to appeal. I think based on the lawyers I've spoken to, it's pretty unlikely that they'll appeal, but it's their right to launch an appeal if they choose.

Yeah, well look, from what I understand, and you tell me if I'm wrong, the cops didn't like this case, especially when it was so late in the game. The cops didn't like it. I think the Crown probably had to bring it forth because of some sort of public compelling of them. Like I said, it doesn't seem like we were supposed to get a different result based on the testimony and the evidence that was given. So I cannot imagine the Crown would want to reopen this and have another kick at the can. It's their choice, but it's pretty unlikely. I think there's one lawyer we interviewed several times here in London, a criminal defense lawyer who said, in his view, a lot of politics went into the decision to lay charges and to prosecute these men and said that men are often presumed to be guilty and female victims are presumed to be in the right. I don't know that this case and this decision is going to make anybody feel any better necessarily,

but you're right that this is our system. And so this is the system we live with imperfect as it may be. But this is the system that applies to all of us. Global News is Sean O'Shea. Thank you very much, my friend really appreciate it. Thanks, Ben. Have a great day. And I think that's the most frustrating thing for everyone in this case, which is, by and large, most

most people who were in the know, could have predicted that this is how the result was going to play out. And there was no other way that it was going to happen when when you have one complainant who is asked to remember something from seven years earlier, and she's asked by five different lawyers to to recount as accurately as possible. Of course she was going to be proven to be unreliable. But on the other side, the men accused were facing the end of their lives as they knew it. You would have to be an absolute idiot

not to go as hard as possible against the person accusing you. You just would have to. And that's not a place to be polite. So of course that was gonna happen. And it's just a shame that it just doesn't feel like things like this bring us together. Hey, let's get into the ring one more time with the legend himself, Hulk Hogan.

From body slams to pop culture, we're gonna take a look at the ultimate wrestling icon right here next on the Ben Mulroney Show. The all new 2025 Kicks isn't just a bold new vehicle on the road. It's Nissan's number one selling subcompact SUV. With expressive style and advanced tech,'s Nissan's number one selling subcompact SUV. With expressive style and advanced tech, Kicks is number one. Right now, lease the 2025 Kicks for the equivalent of $65 weekly for 48 months. Hurry into your local dealer today. S front wheel drive for 280 monthly with 3,495 down to 3.49%. Includes 0.5% loyalty reduction for qualifying Nissan owners. Conditions apply. See In the 70s, four young women were found dead.

For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hixed, a senior crime reporter for Global News. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer, and hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad-free on Amazon Music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat. This is the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney Show and we want to the Ben Mulroney show. And we want to thank you for joining us and participating in this conversation on all platforms,

including social media, Instagram, at Ben Mulroney show, YouTube, podcast platforms, the good old fashioned radio and streaming apps. It's a conversation that we have with you every single day and we appreciate your participation. All right. We pat right at the end of the show yesterday, like right at the end of the show, as I was saying goodbye is when I learned

of the passing of Hulk Hogan. Very sad for a lot of people for whom he meant the world. And let's delve into the conversation with somebody who knows far more about wrestling than I, John Pollock, he's a journalist at Post Wrestling. John, thank you for being here today. How are you feeling today? Well, it's been kind of just a surreal 24 hours,

just because in professional wrestling, there's those couple of stories that come around every couple of years that really do break through. And certainly the passing of Hulk Hogan is one of those where he is somebody that went far beyond just the wrestling bottle and into so many people's childhood and was just a massive crossover star and you're seeing that with all of the coverage. Well and that's absolutely right and just so you know where I'm coming from I was never the biggest wrestling fan, but God did I mean, Hulk Hogan was everywhere. Like there was no

escaping him in pop culture. He was look, the WWE is now bigger than it's ever been. But at one point, would it be fair to say that Hulk Hogan was bigger than wrestling? Yeah, absolutely. Like in the 80s, when Vince McMahon wanted to take his company national like Hulk Hogan was placed front and center. And this was somebody that, you know, we, we have such a fractured media ecosystem today, but we look at the eighties and here is someone he's in Rocky three, he is on NBC on Saturday night's main event. He's getting on the cover of sports illustrated. He has a cartoon on CBS. Like he was a he was a real life cartoon hero.

Yeah. That that came to your local town as well. So I mean, it it it does show you just the power of those WWF figures from the 80s that translate so much all these decades later when one of them passes away. Hey, can you remind me because again, like I said, I didn't follow it tremendously, but I remember one day I woke up and Hulk Hogan was no more. He was Hollywood Hogan. Yeah, so this was in the mid 90s. And the Hulkamania run had definitely kind of, it had waned.

And the audience was ready for something fresh with Hulk Hogan. And he had left the WWF. He was now wrestling for Ted Turner's World Championship wrestling. So they turned him into a heel into a bad guy in 1996. And it really did revive his career. Like it gave him several added years. It was fresh. And more importantly, it was a massive like a business boom for WCW at that time

where they did become the number one promotion. And it was as Hulk Hogan kind of rebranded himself as Hollywood Hogan and it just the idea of flipping him it was pretty novel to that audience that had grown up seeing this guy in the traditional red and yellow. Yeah, that's right. And then he eventually did go back to the moniker of Hulk Hogan. Because correct me if I'm wrong, he there was a there was there was a sort of like a breakup between the WWE or WWF at the time and Hulk Hogan. And he eventually found his way back into the fold, did he not?

Yeah, I mean, it's a really fascinating relationship between Vince McMahon and Hulk Hogan. Both were pretty instrumental to the other. I don't know if there's another figure that could have played the role and Hulk Hogan. Both were pretty instrumental to the other. I don't know if there's another figure that could have played the role of Hulk Hogan or been that figure in the 80s. And conversely, Vince McMahon had the understanding of how to market him. He had the New York territory, which was very key to things. But over time, yes, Hulk Hogan leaves the WWF in 1993, because at this point he's turning 40. And Vince McMahon has his eye toward like, who's my next star? And Hulk Hogan wasn't really ready to see that position. And to his credit, I mean, he was still a big draw when he would go to WCW. But there was a fracturing of that relationship. But one of the tried and true methods of operation for a Vince McMahon is that if there is

money to be made, he puts any kind of animus behind him as did Hulk Hogan and they work together once again after WCW went out of business, and they got the nostalgia run out of Hulk Hogan. But there, there were always highs and lows with that relationship that the two that they could be very aligned and it could also be a contentious relationship usually coming down to money and creative direction. I want to talk about sort of the controversies of the in the life of Hulk Hogan and and and

and how he changed culture in sometimes by accident when he took the website Gawker to court. That was a huge trial. And the result was the dismantling of a very influential website. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for like just what you can see in the coverage is, you know, for many people, it's this last 10 years that is going to be like the most recent and it deserves a lot of focus. And for those unfamiliar with the story, in 2012, Gawker obtained a sex tape involving Hulk Hogan and they posted the tape. And this led to a lawsuit filed by Hulk Hogan against the website, later revealed to be funded by Peter Teal.

And it ended up taking the Gawker site down completely. And later, a further tape was released that had the audio on it. And this was very damning for Hogan in 2015, where this included a bunch of racist language. And it was pretty catastrophic to Hulk Hogan's career to his brand and WWE for a time cease ties with Hogan as well. But as you can see with all the pieces that are being written and people remembering Hogan, it's impossible to detach that from this man's legacy

because it's so fresh and it really did culminate with this pretty surreal moment earlier this year. It was Hulk Hogan's final appearance at a WWE arena and he was booed out of the building and it was a pretty, um, it was a pretty staunch, uh, like proclamation by this WWE audience that we're moving away from this Hulk Hogan figure. And it was, you know, that is a big part of Hulk Hogan's legacy is like this,

this dark period as well as well that is attached to him. Yeah, but we may have proximity bias, right? Because it's still fresh. And I, and I wonder from your perspective as an expert, you know, how are, are wrestling fans and there are so many of them, I mean, they're, they are Legion and they are in the millions at this point. Are they a forgiving bunch, meaning 15, 20 years from now, as they look back as we look back at Hulk Hogan and what he has meant, not just to wrestling, but to popular culture is, are we going to look at him through a more forgiving lens? I think that certainly, I don't feel that Hulk Hogan was in a position where it was irredeemable that he could not have apologized in a certain level or the issue with Hulk

Hogan that I think some have is that when this guy was in front of a camera, or just in public, he was always on and he was just a performer to his core. But in that, you never really knew what was for show, where was the real person buried in all of this? Who was Terry Bollea? And at least to those that were around him, it was just felt like this was a guy that never fully made amends for this.

And I think that's the frustration among some fans, and frankly, colleagues, like it is notable some of the younger performers that you know, you're seeing tributes that are coming out within the industry, but it's a lot more of Hulk Hogan's colleagues. trenches with him in the 80s, those who helped build what is, what was the became the foundation to this massive WWE monster. I have to assume the older generations remembering him more kindly. Yeah, I think that's a pretty fair assessment not to paint brush everyone. But I mean, Hulk Hogan was like it can't be understated just the revenue driver that he was and for these, like there was a period where WWF, they were running up to four shows a night. It was an insane schedule that they were running. And if you were on a Hulk Hogan card, I mean, you benefited from that because you were

paid a percentage of the live gate. So he, he brought it like no one begrudged Hulk Hogan in that position because he made money and You know, he was the golden goose for so long with a lot of those contemporaries John Paul Thank you so much for joining us and for helping to add some Definition to this man that you know, we experienced but probably didn't really know. Thanks so much. I'm Jordan Bonaparte, and this is your invitation to join me for an exploration of Canadian crime, mysteries, and the just plain weird on the Nighttime Podcast. Over the years, we've dove deep into many of Canada's most unique cases.

From the haunting disappearance of Jack and Lily Sullivan in Nova Scotia, That's something I have to live with until truth makes its way out. And the truth always makes its way out. To the bizarre mystery of the unexplained death at a Halifax Walmart. Walmart says a large bakery oven will be removed. And of course, we provide a weekly roundup of Canada's weird news stories. The psychic said he could make the woman fall madly in love with him. But get it up tomorrow.

It's like that. If you give $12,000. Yeah. Through interviews with those closest to the case, to deep dive investigations and listener voices, we shine a light where few others take the time to look. So if you're interested in Canadian crime, mysteries and the weird, get caught up on everything you missed by subscribing to Nighttime right now, wherever you get podcasts.