The Ben Mulroney Show - Poilievre lays out Libs on immigration and conflicts of interest

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

- Frank Caputo Conservative Shadow Minister for Public Safety If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: @benmulroneyshow Twitter: @benmulroneyshow TikTok: @benmulroneyshow Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's better help. H e l p dot com slash Mulrooney. No frills delivers get groceries delivered to your door from no frills with PC Express shop online and get fifteen dollars in PC Optimum Points on your first five orders. Shop now at NoFrails.ca Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Thank you so much for joining us. So Pierre Poliev, the leader of the Conservative Party, is reintroducing himself to Canadians following his loss of his seat in Ottawa. He's scheduled for a by-election in Alberta, and that will see him, if it goes according to plan,

winning that seat and back in the House of Commons where he can lead his party, at least until the leadership review, which may or may not go his way. But in the interim, he is, I think, trying to come back and reintroduce himself to Canadians in a different way. Same guy, maybe different tone. And yesterday he gave a pretty substantial speech

where he, well, first of all, he said, everyone needs to compromise in order to build major infrastructure projects. This is just days before the prime minister is scheduled to meet with First Nations on his government's bill C5. And I think that's a really important thing that he's saying. Back in the day, the old version of Pierre Poliev

was the guy who said everything that the liberals do is wrong. And this guy is coming out and saying, hey, let's all meet in the middle. The liberals can sort of move off of their position. We'll move off of ours. The First Nations, environmentalists, stakeholders, everyone's got to move from the position that

has stopped us from building these massive projects in the past. And let's meet in the past, and let's meet in the middle and let's build together. That is not something I am used to hearing from the conservatives, at least for the past 10 years. I like it. I have been quite emboldened by watching the conservatives vote with the liberals on these very big issues. The argument was, if you're going to take our ideas, of course, we're going to vote for you. Now that's not exactly what he's saying.

He's saying, listen, let's all just sort of put some water in our wine. And I kind of like hearing that. He also talked about separation in Alberta, because of course, that's where he's running. He said, we have to put a final end to this notion that Ottawa tells Alberta to pay up and shut up. And that's what Albertans have been told by this liberal government for a decade. Their frustrations are entirely legitimate.

He is not saying that he believes that Alberta should separate. What he is saying is that he's right. Under Justin Trudeau, this liberal government kept, I don't know, kept their boot on Alberta's neck. I'm not quite sure what the imagery is I should be going for, but they feel that they have real grievances against Ottawa. They've given a lot and they don't feel

that they've gotten a lot back. If this prime minister turns around and authorizes a pipeline, maybe two pipelines that will, if he gets rid of the single use plastics ban, if he gets rid of the tanker ban, all those things, if he does those things, I think a lot of this issue of separation goes away as well, which I think is what everybody,

everybody who loves this country wants to see. So these are some of the broad themes that he discussed in his speech, but let's drill down into some very specific things that he talked about. He talked about immigration and he wants, why don't we listen to Pierre himself on what he thinks is the issue

and how he thinks it's going to get better. We've had population growth of roughly a million a year under the liberals while we barely build 200,000 homes. The our job market is stalled, and yet we are adding more people to the workforce. to the workforce. Our young people are facing generational highs in unemployment because the jobs are, the multinational corporations are giving jobs to low-wage temporary foreign workers and that ultimately leave our young people without opportunities. Our country is divided and we're not able to integrate people at this pace. So in order to fix the problem, we've got to have we need to put very hard caps on immigration levels. We need more people leaving than coming for the next couple of years.

And we need we so our country can actually catch up. I don't hear anything I have a problem with there. Now, I'm sure that there are going to be people who know far more about this than I, who will say, if we do that, there will be this and that negative knock on effect. If we don't keep bringing people in, here are where the problems are going to be. But we, listen, it's either problems for the future or the problems that we're dealing with right now. We have very real problems that have metastasized into crises in this country. And yeah, if more people leave than come in, if our population shrinks for a little bit,

I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing if it helps mitigate and minimize some of the crises that we're having. If all of a sudden there are fewer people, that means, I mean, if there's fewer people, that means there's more homes. If there's fewer people, that means there's more spots in hospitals, more spots in schools, more jobs, right?

That's what that means. And I would rather take on new challenges because of a slower population growth, at least temporarily, if it means that these key crises that we have been dealing with for far too long, crises of our own making, are lessened. And it feels to me like that's the trade-off.

And I listened to him there, it sounded absolutely reasonable. I have no problem with what he said. If anybody disagrees, feel free to let me know. More than happy to be told I'm wrong and more than happy to decide I'm wrong and take a different position. But what I heard from him was measured, reasonable, and seems to me would address a lot of these crises

that frankly look like they're impossible to tackle in the way that we have built this country with the status quo. All right, now listen, he's being diplomatic. He's, I think he's putting some water in his wine. He's talking about compromise, but he is still Pierre Poliev, he is still the leader of the official opposition, which means he has to oppose, he has to oppose those on the other side of the aisle. And that includes the liberals and

specifically Mark Carney. And when Mark Carney announced or when it was announced that he is going to be recusing himself from over 100 from decisions that could take place dealing with over 100 companies that he has positions in. well, that did not sit very well with the leader of the opposition. A reminder for you what our prime minister said back in the day about whether or not he was in conflict. I have stood up for Canada. I have left my roles in the private sector

at a time of crisis for our country. I'm complying with all the rules. Your line of questioning is trying to invent new rules. I'm complying with the rules that the parliament has laid out and the responsibilities of the ethics commissioner. And I will continue to comply with those rules. All right. So that's not exactly true.

Yes, you complied with the rules as they were written, but they were written assuming that whoever was gonna run for leadership had already been in the House of Commons, meaning that disclosure would have happened, meaning people would have known what your holdings were before they elected you. It's a loophole that you walk through and that's fine. But you decided in that moment to say you were complying with the rules. You didn't have

to say that you could have said something else. You chose to say what you said. Here is Pierre Poliev reacting to the news that things weren't exactly as Mark Carney told us they were. On Friday, we finally got a look at the Prime Minister's many financial interests, interests that he kept carefully hidden throughout the election and about which he told numerous falsehoods during that same campaign. And so these are what the revelations tell us. One, that Mr Carney was not upfront or honest with Canadians during the election. He made numerous false statements, statements he would have known were false when he made them. Two, there is a cornucopia of conflicts of interest in these investments,

like we have never seen before from a Canadian Prime Minister. There is nothing wrong with someone being successful. I want successful people to look at politics as the next challenge. I'm very glad that Mark Carney decided that this was the next chapter for him. But the way he framed it was, I have no conflicts and I'm here because I'm bullish on Canada.

Had we known what he was holding, he wouldn't have been able to say that. He wouldn't have been able to say,. He wouldn't have been able to say, I'm bullish on Canada, I believe in Canada, because his holdings would have told a different story. Not, by the way, nothing wrong with his holdings. And we're gonna have a conversation a little bit later with the president of Shopify as to why there aren't

more companies that people would want to invest in, in Canada. That's for a little bit later. But look, this is Pier Polly of Reintroducing Himself. Is it going to be enough? Are Canadians going to respond to it? Time will tell. But as far as I can see, that was a great first foray. All right, don't go anywhere when we come back. When we come back, the greatest introduction in the history of sports. Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show and thank you so much. We really appreciate you helping us build this show each and every day. And look, we were building it on a lot

of different platforms. We're building it on radio on the chorus radio network, on YouTube, we're building it on podcast platforms as well as a streaming app. And we're also building it on social media. You can follow us on pretty much every social media channel at Ben Mulrooney Show. Go find us there. You can test drive the show there. You can watch a little snackable moment of the show. And if you like it, share it, follow us, and tell your friends, because we want this show to be the biggest possible version of itself so it can be the best possible version of itself. All right, it's All-Star Weekend and if you love the Home Run Derby,

if you love all the fun and trappings and artifice of the All-Star Game and All-Star Weekend, then you are paying attention. and one of the best stories in in baseball right now Is the fact that? Cal cal raleigh is Uh, who's that? He's a catcher And I don't think i've ever seen a catcher leading the league in it never has huh first time ever Yeah, first leading the league in home runs and he's only one behind Barry Bonds when Barry Bonds was, was about to break the home run record. And I don't believe that Cal is juiced the way

Barry Bonds was, but anyway, the home run Derby was yesterday. And this is how Cal Raleigh was introduced by Pat McAfee. All right, so I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I even knew that I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional.

I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional.

I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. I was going to be a professional. Big Dumper! Cal Rowley! All right, so I am not gonna sit here and pretend that I even knew that his nickname was Big Dumper. But my producer did, and he didn't know, he said he didn't wanna know why he was called Big Dumper.

I preferred actually to live in the uncertainty, just to think that it could be any number of horrible things. Any number, and now you know exactly why he's called Big Dumper. Sadly, it's actually one of the more simple reasons. He's got a badonkadonk. He's got a big butt. Yeah, he's got a big butt.

And here, somebody wanted to let you in on some of the oddest and funniest nicknames in sport. He got Big Dumper, obviously, in Major League Baseball. Moon Unit, well, that's, I mean, that's not really sports. Moon Unit Zappa. There's the big unit in sports, Randy Johnson. Yes, and then there's Moon Unit, who was Frank Zappa's son, right?

Yes. Yes, I remember that. Moon, there was another one, I can't remember, the daughter had a crazy name too. Anyway, doesn't matter. Dr. Dirt. That was Johnny Damon for his gritty style and sliding hard into bases. The refrigerator Perry. Love that one. He was bigger than a refrigerator. Massive defensive lineman. Then there was Pee Wee Reese. I think that's actually his name. That's probably his name, right? The round mound rebound. That one has to be one of the best. Yeah, Charles Barkley is a fantastic one. I am not a role model. I love that ad. And the human joystick, that was David Patterson from the NFL, a quirky,

he was nimble to say the least. Yes, but out of all of them, you have to say Big Dumper. Oh, Big Dumper is the best. The best. It's the best one. And the fact that he's having this season is, makes it, it's a celebration of the Big, Dumper. The Dumper. There you go. All right, we're not gonna say that ever again

on the Ben Mulroney show. I promise. What did Elmo do to deserve what's going on to him? So he, Elmo of Sesame Street fame, all he wants to do is play and be kind and teach lessons. Can you do his voice? No, I cannot do his voice. Nor can I. No, but you know, when you're as big as Elmo,

you gotta have a presence on social media, so he did. And I think it was Twitter where somebody somehow wrested control of his,, young puppet's social media and put out a number of, I mean, is off color the nice way of saying it? I would be a very nice way of saying it because you can't repeat any of it really. Yeah, but high level here.

Elmo was calling for the extermination of the Jewish people in violent antisemitic threats. He referred to President Trump as a puppet of Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. He posted profanity-laced references to probing the Jeffrey Epstein files. He released the files in bold all caps, is what he suggested.

And he also, just for good measure, included racist slurs targeting minority groups. So this all happened before they were able to gain control of the Twitter handle again, but the damage was done and the responses by people were, I mean, I can't even read them. The ones I can read are not nearly as interesting as the ones I can't read.

This is, although this one's funny. See what happens when you defund PBS at Elmo. The ones I can read are not nearly as interesting as the ones I can't read. This is, although this one's funny. See what happens when you defund PBS at Elmo and I'm forever scared by Elmo, words I never expected to utter. There you go. But what I don't understand is, listen, somebody with a mission decided

this was the best way to get their word out. Do you know the shocking thing is if you, when you think about those tweets, some of them are not dissimilar to what Francesca Albanese said. You're right. Oh, so perhaps Nobel Peace Prize winning Francesca Albanese. Thank you, NDP of Canada. Hey, yesterday we had a really important conversation on this show with a young man whose family had endured

not one but two home invasions in the greater Toronto area. We had him on the show for a long time. We really went through the entire thing, the emotional toll it took, the interactions with the police and so on. And that conversation is continuing today. But before we move forward with it, let's look back at that conversation.

Here is our guest talking about the moment during the second home invasion, when the final guy who was not able to flee was cornered in the basement. Here's a bit he and I believe his brother had cornered one of the home invaders in his basement. Let's listen. So one of the guys I was initially fighting with, he was a little disoriented after fighting

with me for a little bit. So he instead of running out actually ran downstairs. He runs back into my sister's boyfriend and he runs into my dad. And they take him down initially. Yeah, he's actually still trying to escape. So he gets up and he starts trying to run again. And at this point, I put the bat down, I tackle him to the ground and he tries getting up again, which I tell him very kindly, please stay. The cops are on their way the whole time. Once we had him down, we didn't touch him.

We just told him to stay there. And we tried to ask him questions like, who are you? How old are you? I believe actually said he's 13 at one point, which he's very clearly not. Yeah. Okay, just a little bit of context for you. After the first home invasion, they armed up with fire extinguishers, because they know those are legal, and baseball bats.

And these home invaders came in, and one of them actually had a gun. And despite the guy having a gun, our guest and his brother-in-law, I'm sorry, it was brother-in-law, not brother, they got the upper hand on this guy. And despite the fact that they did not have a gun, despite the fact that it was their home, despite the fact that this man had come in and invaded their home, the interaction with the police did not go the way I think anybody would have expected. So initially their questioning was more focused on do we use excessive force? That's a nuts. By the time they got to questioning me personally, they had actually already found the

bullet, which they had not disclosed to us. I mean, we all thought somebody had fired a gun. I didn't hear it personally, but everybody thought they fired the gun outside. When they found the bullet inside, that kind of changed their line of questioning. All right. So therein lies the rub. I mean, that to me was the thing that I thought about for the rest of the day. Like, what am I allowed to do in my own home to defend the people I love against criminals who've decided it's their right to invade my home because I can't use pepper spray, so they use fire extinguishers. This guy had a gun, they had a bat, and yet the police ask them questions about whether

or not they use excessive force. After the break, we're going to be joined by Frank Caputo. He's the conservative shadow minister for public safety. We're going to be talking about this story and we're going to ask him a very specific question. What do you think you can do as the opposition to convince the liberal government to move on these really important issues of public safety? Go go anywhere. You are listening to the Ben Mulroney show and if you were listening yesterday then you you tuned into an incredible conversation with a very brave guest who had to endure two home invasions or at least his family did he

wasn't there for the first one but that doesn't mean he didn't suffer the trauma and part of that conversation was hearing about the interactions that this young man had with the police who at one point were questioning whether in the defense of his family and his home, he perhaps might have used too much force. And this, to me, is just a moment where I have to shake my head. And I know a lot of you did as well. And so here we are as a country almost at a crossroads where the state of play is untenable. And where do we go from here? Well, we're joined now by the conservative shadow minister

for public safety, Frank Caputo. Frank, thanks so much for being here. Well, thank you very much, Ben. It's an honor to be with you this morning. Yeah, I'd love your take. I don't know if you heard the entire conversation. But if whatever you did here, I'd love your your take on it. Because I know that your background is as a Crown attorney.

Yes, that's right, Ben. I was a prosecutor for a number of years. And I also taught at our local law school. So shout out to Thompson Rivers University Faculty of Law. So, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is actually compassion, you know, just trying to separate myself and my knowledge just as a human being knowing that somebody's home like their castle where they are supposed to feel safest, that that was invaded not once, but twice, and invaded in such a personal in your face way. These stories are just, they're all too common

amongst Canadians. These are real people who are real victims that have real thoughts and trauma, and sometimes that trauma can stay with people for months, years, and beyond. So my heart goes out

to these people, and if I was them, I'd be screaming for answers as well. Frank, you know, a lot of people are looking at the stories out of the United States when someone comes into their house and you hear these terrible stories of someone, a homeowner just blasting them with a gun and that's it.

This is my house, you were in my house, I have the right to defend it, end of story. Now I am not suggesting that everybody gets strapped in this country and get a gun to protect their home, but we clearly have a different conception in the United States than we do here as to what our rights are within our home. Yeah, certainly the law is different.

And I will say this, the Harper government in 2012 did add a measure of certainty to self-defense laws. There was a case way back when that where the public was outraged and the government sought to act looking at, you know, really the case law looks at the reasonableness of someone's actions as in somebody can defend their home and can defend their property and defend others. They just have to do it in a reasonable manner and in what's called a proportional manner. There's no overkill, if you will. So we as conservatives obviously acted in that regard.

I'm mindful of the fact that 13 years have elapsed since then. And I'm also mindful of the fact that times have changed since then. And one of the biggest things that's changed are our statistics when they relate to crimes. We don't have the 2024 statistics yet, Ben, but the Liberals have to explain like these numbers from 2015 to 2023. Violent crime of 49.8%, homicides up nearly 28%, gang-related homicides up over 78%, sex assaults up 75% almost. So, you know, these are the types of things that have really changed the landscape and the liberals haven't told us what they're going to do about it.

Instead, they've actually done the opposite of what I think they should do. They've watered, they've allowed bail to be watered down. They've allowed sentencing to really be watered down, especially when it comes to guns and violence, you know, people, people could do a drive by shooting now can serve their sentence in their home house arrest, because of liberal amendments. And I could just go on. Yeah, well, let's let's try to be as productive as we can possibly be.

You know, I just listened, we just shared your leaders' thoughts on how everybody needs to compromise in order to build these national projects of national importance, right? And I would humbly suggest that that's probably something that he's gonna expect on all matters in Ottawa. Everybody's going to need to stop digging in as much as they do, stick into their corner, and coming together so that we can all find consensus.

And so, look, I know what the conservatives would have done had they won the election. That did not come to pass. So I guess my question is, in this spirit of camaraderie that is existing in Ottawa right now, where conservatives and liberals are actually working together in a way I've never seen, what do you think you can do? How much do you think you can move the liberals from their old Trudeau position to a new position

that would at least be a step in the right direction? Well, I think that we as conservatives take a very common sense approach, Ben. You know, the example I just brought up about drive-by shootings, robberies, extortion of firearms, I would hope that the liberals have come to see that their experiment with lighter sentencing, which is a lack of deterrent, really hasn't helped.

I mean, I've spoken both publicly and privately with justice officials, with ministers, to say, look, this isn't working. We need to find a new way forward. Some of that might come by way of a conservative private members bills. I'm actually number one in the order of precedents. I'm looking forward to tabling a bill on a justice public safety issue or two come September. The part of it, I think the liberals have to be open

to conservative amendments. If there's one thing I can say, I believe that people really do prefer our platform when it comes to justice because it's a realistic platform. It's not aspirational tie in the sky stuff. It is tangible. It's the discrete small group that disproportionately commits these upticks in crime that I just mentioned, you know, the gang-related homicides up 78%. Those are the people we need to be

targeting. It's a small group of people who disproportionately commit too much crime. And I think it's time for the liberals to recognize that and work with us to ensure Canadians are safe by making sure that those people are dealt with appropriately. Frank, have you had any conversations with your analog on the other side of the aisle. Is there any dialogue that's going on? Do you know what they're thinking on this on these files? I have had conversations both publicly in the House of Commons and privately. Obviously, I don't get into what's said privately. It's understood that, you know, when something is said privately, you know, we keep that

between us, especially when it comes to negotiating on legislation. But for the first time, it feels as though the liberals are finally starting to acknowledge that there's a problem. Because then for the last four years that I've been involved in parliament, they have told us there is no problem. They have pointed the finger at the provinces. They've said there is no issue with bail. Bail works just fine. The laws are just fine. And then Justin Trudeau resigned. And now all of a sudden it's like, whoa, we really have a problem with bail.

We don't need talk. We need action. We need them to come to the table and we need them to come to the table now so that people like your victim can actually have faith in the justice system whose life has been upended. You know, and these crimes, even having your

carceral, these are meaningful consequences, meaningful issues that can impact people profoundly. Well, Frank, so tell me, what's the timeline? The House sits again in September. Do you think it's reasonable for Canadians to believe that there will be some meaningful change on on the books that will make our our home safer, our streets safer, safer to walk our kids to school. I mean, is this is it reasonable for us to assume that change is coming? Well, that's all up to the liberals, Ben. I mean, you and I both know that once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it's a heck of a lot harder to get back in. And let's be candid, in the last eight years, that's what's happened.

The toothpaste is out of the tube, and it's going to take a while. What I expect from the Liberals is focused legislation, and I expect it now. As Conservatives, we would have been prepared to sit over the summer to ensure that we could take step after step to ensure that people were kept safe, people were safe, that communities that are experiencing extortion, that there are meaningful consequences. Like before, it used to be extortion with a firearm, I believe, was a four-year mandatory sentence.

You can now get house arrest for that. These are the things that the Liberals need to recognize. They have gone so far straight from Canadian values and what Canadians expect. If I was called back to the House of Commons tomorrow, I'd be ready to legislate on this right here, right now. And I know that Pierre Pauliette and my Conservative colleagues would be right there with me. And look, Frank, the good news is, our Prime Minister ran saying, this is not the old Liberal Party because I am not the old Liberal leader. So if he's true to his word, he will buck the trend of Justin Trudeau and give us real meaningful reform

that makes Canada safer. I want to thank you very much. I wish you a great summer and good luck in September. Ever tried walking and tasting greatness at the same time? Meet the Walking Shwarma, Osmo's legendary shwarma, layered on crunchy Doritos and made to move with you. It's bold, it's portable, it's a street food remix you never knew you needed. Creator for everyone that snacks hard and craves flavor that doesn't sit still. Grab yours at Osmos today and taste why everyone's walking different now. Limited time only. Don't miss the collab that's actually worth the hype.