The Ben Mulroney Show - Poilievre security clearance debate... again??? Political panel monday!

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

Guest: Dimitri  Soudas, Former Director of Communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper   Guest: Max Fawcett, Lead Columnist for Canada's National Observer -  If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠⁠ Executive Producer:  Mike Drolet Reach out to Mike with story ideas or tips at [e-mail] Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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this week in politics, the Monday edition. Please say hi to Dimitri Soutis, former director of communications for Prime Minister Stephen Harper, and Max Fawcett lead columnist for Canada's National Observer. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Happy Monday, gentlemen. So there was a rare interview with Stefan Dillon, who was the father of the Clarity Act following the 1995 Near Miss,

where the yes side almost won out against the, the no, and Canada was saved by a, by a hair, by a sliver. And so the, and the Clarity Act requires a clear majority to a clear question on any subsequent referendum. And I don't know how you feel. I've always thought that the Clarity Act was not the panacea that a lot of people thought it was, because it's a roadmap. It's a roadmap to help separatists separate from the country. I always thought the more opaque the situation would be, the better it could be. If all of a sudden there's a referendum and there's a, you don't like the question, you could tie it up in court for years and years and years. And this seems to be a fast track to it. But that's just my opinion. I did think that Stefan Zion said when he said in his interview with the CBC, that he has no time for separatist blackmail.

to me it seems Look, I want to believe that if separatism became a real problem in Alberta, I would pay my own way there and stand on stage to anybody who would listen talking about the importance of keeping the country united. That's how important it is to me. But I feel that showing a lack of respect like this

at a time where you don't want that number to tick upward is it's not a smart strategy, Dimitri. It's not. So a couple of points here. Number one, there was a poll that came out that shows an overwhelming percentage of Albertaans. This was an Angus Reed poll that shows an overwhelming percentage of Albertans. 57% would definitely vote to stay within Canada. 8% only would definitely vote to leave.

And then there's a 21% that leans towards voting to leave and an 8% leaning towards voting to stay. So if you put those two together, 65% are against separating and 29% are definitely leaning towards. Here's why Stéphanzeon should make himself scarce. And you mentioned in the beginning, but Stefan Zion does not have influence in Alberta. A, most people don't know him, and those who do know him don't like him. So I do understand that he's come back from Europe as being an ambassador. He's probably waiting for his phone to ring in order to get some board appointments. But in between now and then, do something else, please.

Max, you're there. And I agree with Demetri. I don't think the numbers suggest that Alberta is going to separate anytime soon. But I think it's incumbent upon everyone on both sides of. these sorts of emotional, national unity debates to respect, to respect the other side. Because to respect the other side is to understand the other side. And if you can understand the other side, then you can have conversations that can bring them over to your side. And to simply say, oh, it's separatist blackmail, I think is a level of disrespect that

could turn people off. Yeah, I agree. I mean, look, I don't think that it is a rational conversation. Most of the arguments that the separatists make are either thinly rooted in fact or not rooted in any facts at all. But that's all the more reason why you can't have folks like Stefan Diole weighing in and turning it into a partisan issue. You know, I think outside of Justin Trudeau and maybe the ghost of Pierre Trudeau, Stefan Dillon is the least helpful person to be weighing in on this because he sort of represents everything that gets separatists up in a dander, you know, the sort of Quebec exceptionalism, federal liberals, it's just everything they hate. And if you want to take that 21% and push them into the 8% column, Stefan Dianne talking is a good way to do that.

So, you know, I would gently suggest to all the federalists out there, if you're not in Alberta or from Alberta, please keep quiet. Yeah. You know, talk amongst yourselves, have to have dinner parties where you talk about how silly the Albertans are. But let the people who are in Alberta deal with it ourselves. And the people we really need to speak up are the conservatives here. I'm very appreciative of everything that Jason Kenney has done. He has been out there kicking butt and taking names. And we need more people like Jason Kenney who can speak to that conservative audience and say,

look, guys, I know you're frustrated, but this is not the way. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's move on to, I mean, a story, it's rear in its head again. The Pierre Poliiev refusing to get his top secret clearance. Look, I don't know. I don't know what to do with this story. Because I am, for me, it's baked in. It makes perfect sense for him not to get it.

I appreciate the argument. If he gets it, he's effectively gagged from criticizing the government. And he could be prosecuted for criticizing the government. And yet the stories, but like that found purchased with a lot of smart people during the last election. Some very smart people that I know sort of harped on him not getting his security clearance. and despite me saying, but he'd be gagged, he couldn't talk about it, they didn't seem to care.

And it's rearing its head again. I want to know why it's rearing his head again. And at this point, should Pierre just, you know what? Like, just get it just to shut these people up? Demetri, start with you. No, no, he should not get it. And you're asking, where is this coming from? Yeah.

This is coming from the guy who defeated Pierre Palliev during, the federal election. The same guy who campaigned on not a single public servant losing his job. And the only way that would happen is if Pierre Poyev were to be elected as prime minister. Meanwhile, there's 40,000 public servants that are getting pink slips. Our good friend Bruce Fanjoy. You're a good friend, Bruce Fanjoy, which I find to be highly, highly hypocritical. So first, I'd like to get him on the show so he can explain to us why he campaigned on one thing and the opposite is happening. Now, I truly want to settle this thing.

once and for all. I had the highest level of security clearance, exactly the same one as the Prime Minister of Canada had. The leader of the official opposition does not automatically need security clearance to get certain info. Like, for example, the government can give him the names of people who are compromised by foreign interference. CIS can actually provide that if it's in the public interest. What cannot be shared with the leader of the official opposition, is something called sources and methods. So what is sources and methods is who did we get that information from? And what was the method used to gather that info?

So they can get the names but not the classified details. The leader of the official opposition can actually be brief. And I will give you an example. Former NPP leader and leader of the official opposition, Tom Amilkev, did not possess security clearance, Yet that never stopped then Prime Minister Stephen Harper from calling him to brief him on matters of national importance, even those involving classified information. And let's not forget the government's initial response. When the foreign interference story first broke in the Globe and Mail more than two years ago, they flatly denied the existence of foreign interference.

So this is pure partisan politics and I call bovine scatology. Well, I wonder, Max, if you take everything that Dimitri said as gospel, I wonder if this has anything to do with Bruce Fanjoy trying to deflect from the fact that not only does he have the 40,000 public servant jobs that are going to be, go the way the dodo bird, but this return to work issue of four days a week for public servants now to eventually five days a week. So not a lot for him to hang his hat on these days. so deflecting and trolling Pierre Poliyev could be a little bit of a distraction. And I'm going to get you to start, but you're going to have to get you to finish up after the break. Yeah, sure. I mean, I think this is definitely bait. And I take everything that Dimitri says at face value.

I'm just not sure why Pierre Polyev shouldn't do it. You know, he's looking for an opportunity to tell Canadians that he is changing his tone, changing his approach. he's taking a more sober-minded look at things. You know, him being able to criticize the government is not the most important thing in the world. And if you want to communicate that you're the next prime minister of this country, saying to people, I trust my team, they can do the criticizing for me. A good way to get that message across.

All right. Well, we're going to continue after the break, including our Doug Ford and Mark Carney conspiring to get the liberals a majority. Don't go anywhere. Enjoy amazing days for one more week at Metro. Save big on six packs of selected peasant. Pepsi bottles just $3.49 each and jumbo red or green seedless grapes just $2.99 per pound only till February 11th. Shop in store or online at metro.ca. Crunch on these wazza deals at Food Basics. Get 145 to 303 gram, crispy cookies or crackers for just 22 each.

Shop in store and online until February 11th. Food basics. Always more for less. Guys, there is a story in the Globe and Mail that says Prime Minister Mark Carney and Doug Ford, the Premier of Ontario, have discussed the possibility of an early federal election in casual conversations and about the importance of a majority mandate to deal with uncertain economic times according to three sources. I wonder what you think of that. I'm not steeped enough in politics to know whether that is a bridge too far. whether that's, I don't know, I don't know what to make of it. So, Max, we'll start with you. So if I had to bet, my guess would be that I do think that Mark Carney and Doug Ford are aligned in the belief that they would like the liberal government to endure for a little while longer.

I don't think it's impossible that Doug Ford has some designs on Pierre Polyos' job, but that's down the road. And I think the way that they want to achieve that is by getting some conservative MPs to cross the floor. And so by floating this rumor of an election, we might go, you know, we might go to the polls. I think it's an attempt to kind of smoke screen a few of the conservative MPs who might be on the fence into joining the liberal caucus. And then guess what? You don't need an election. Everything is taken care of. You know, I think there's a lot of risk with going to the polls. I think it would be a tough case to make the Canadians right now. But I do think that there are probably some fence-sitters who might be vulnerable to being nudged off.

Demetzer, what do you think of this story? So sometimes we complicate things more than what they should be complicated. Why? This is two politicians talking politics. If you were Mark Carney and I was Doug Ford, would you not be asking me, hey, what do you think if I call a snap election and ask for a clear mandate? Because you did that about six months ago and it really worked well for you. How did you do it?

What was the strategy? What was your narrative? So there is no doubt that when a prime minister, when a government is a minority government, the prime minister thinks of two things every day other than governing the country. Number one, am I going to get defeated? Number two, is this the right time for me to call a snap election so I can get a majority? So I wouldn't take this any further than Mark Carney asking Doug Ford what he thought of the idea and what Ontarians' reaction would be if he were to call a snap election.

So yes, and I completely agree with Max, ask number one to a majority, more conservatives and possibly any people cross the floor, but it needs to be more than one or two. It can't be a slim majority. Or number two, as Trump remains the primary threat, but Mark Carney says, we have a minority government, big decisions are ahead,

I need two hands on the wheel. Is that something abnormal that a minority government's thinking of? I don't think so. So let's use this scenario as a long, launching pad. Let's assume there's an election. Doesn't matter whether it's in May or in two, three years from now. What does the federal conservative party have to do to build bridges with their provincial cousins? We saw that Tim Houston's conservatives didn't want to play ball with the conservatives in the last election. We saw that that was certainly the case in Ontario.

BC's got their own stuff going on, Saskatchewan, and maybe, maybe not. We saw Danielle Smith at the conservative convention. So maybe there's there's, there's, there's, There's some love there. But it feels to me that unless the blue teams all start rolling in the same direction, they're creating problems for themselves. What has to happen, Dimitri? Well, I think that in the case of the relationship between Premier Ford, Premier Houston, and Mr. Poliev, I think the short answer is too little too late.

I don't think those two premiers are interested. I will also note that Premier Moe did not attend. the conservative convention. So here, I come from the school of politics that when you're 20 or 25 points ahead, you are nice to your friends and to your allies. You don't dismiss them. You don't, you know, say, oh, you're not important enough. You build bridges when they need you and you don't need them.

Yeah. So I don't know if at this point, Mr. Poliel can rebuild his bridges with Doug Ford, because Doug Ford seems to have a great relationship with Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada. Same thing for Tim Houston. So in some of those cases, I think the best bet for Mr. Poliyev is that these premiers are no longer around when the next general election comes around. That's a good point.

I forgot about the simple passage of time. Max Fawcett, what would your recipe be for peace in the Blue Valley? I mean, you know, Pierre Polyev is not exactly a noted bridge builder, so I'm not sure I would give him that task. but I think at the end of the day, it doesn't matter as much as it might seem. But his fate, his fortune is largely dependent, I think, on what happens in the United States. So long as Donald Trump is there and menacing Canada and threatening our sovereignty, I really don't see a path for the conservatives to win an election.

But as soon as Trump goes away, I think that flips around almost immediately. And I think depending on how well the liberals have done on cost of living issues, it's probably the conservative game to lose. So, you know, I would take Dimitri's advice. I would try to wait out these premiers with whom you haven't built good relationships, maybe try to be a little nicer to the people who are not necessarily your favorite conservatives. And I would try to put some distance between the one that you do get along with, which is Daniel Smith.

I mean, Daniel Smith was probably the biggest impediment to peer polly of winning the election last year. She caused them all sorts of trouble. And she's still causing them all sorts of trouble with embracing separatism. you know, making it easier for these people to get their referendum. She is a problem for him, you know, with friends like that, who needs enemies? Well, let's look to the other side of the pond. And, you know, for a while, we saw rapid succession of prime ministers due to incompetence and all sorts of other reasons on the conservative side.

And then Kier Starrmer and his Labor Party got elected to a very strong mandate. And I thought, well, at the very least, even if he gets, even if he's unpopular, which he and his party are right now, it's going to take an election to dislodge them. But now to hear that Starmor could be out in short order because of the Epstein files and having appointed an ambassador to the U.S., whom they knew was linked to Jeffrey Epstein, his time the sun could be done soon. I wonder what do you think that means for labor moving forward? We'll start with you, Dimitri? Well, it seems that over the last five years, being the prime minister of the United Kingdom, is as short as a summer job. It don't seem to last a very long time. Listen, it is a very

bad day for you if you're a prime minister, if you have to fire both your chief of staff and your director of communications. Now, BBC News is reporting as of basically 15 minutes ago that Starrmer met with his MPs and he told them, I'm not prepared to walk away. They're doing, labor is doing very poorly in public opinion polls. And you know what happens with MPs, nervous Nellys? Yeah. When public opinion polls are not good, he may not be prepared to walk away, but they may show him the plank.

Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK, the caucus has the power to do something about that, don't they? Max. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they have a much richer tradition of shanking their leaders than we do. here in Canada, not quite as rich as Australia, but certainly they have done it. And so, yeah,

you know, I think Kirstarmer is probably a dead man walking right now. And look, what I find most interesting about this situation to Dmitri's point is just you've had this string of incredibly unimpressive prime ministers in Great Britain. Yeah, not just Kier Starrmer, but the, gosh, the string of conservatives that preceded him. And it would be nice at some point if somebody in the United Kingdom could step up who has some political skills, who is competitive. and talented and who can beat back the threat that is posed by the reform. Because, you know, reform is a is a cat of a different species. And, you know, that, I think, would be a real threat to Canada's position in the world,

to the sort of global order of things. So hopefully the Labor Party can find someone who is compelling and can bring the people behind them, because otherwise we're just going to get more of these bad prime ministers, it looks like. Well, and Demetri will end with you, but it seems like, I look at the rise of reform. I see that as a reaction to labor and some of its untenable positions. I mean, Nigel Farage was supposed to be a spent force. He was supposed to just be a presenter on television after having taken his vision for the U.K.

as far as he could go. But for him to have found a second life and possibly be on the cusp of becoming the prime minister, I think that speaks to the pendulum having swung too far to the left and the reaction of it inevitably swinging back to the right. Yep. And we continue seeing the rise and the rise of reform and the British people seem to manifesting Nigel Farage as their next five-minister piece of advice. One guy I know who follows British politics and UK politics more than anybody else,

Jason Kenney. You invite him on the show. Guys, thank you so much. Enjoy your week and we'll see you back here next week. Have a good day. And just a reminder, if you want more BMS, we put a podcast out, every day and you find more content on X, Instagram, and YouTube. Our intel chain is compromised.

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