The Ben Mulroney Show - Political panel - Another strike? And tolls through Kahnawake?

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

GUEST: Regan Watts, Founder Fratton Park Inc., former Senior aide to minister of finance Jim Flaherty GUEST: Sharan Kaur, Political strategist, former Deputy Chief to the Minister of Finance If you enjoyed the podcast, tell a friend! For more of the Ben Mulroney Show, subscribe to the podcast! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.chtbl.com/bms⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Also, on youtube -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@BenMulroneyShow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Ben on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BenMulroney Insta: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠@benmulroneyshow⁠⁠ Enjoy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Mulruni. Welcome back to the show. We have made it to the top of the mountain. It is Wednesday. It is Hump Day, which means we celebrate with two great friends of the show.

We got Regan Watts and Sharon Carr. Welcome, guys. Thanks so much for being here. Bonjour. Great to be here. Okay, I wanted... I want to take a couple of stories and I want to mash them together. We've got the story of the Canada Post-Strike and we've got the story of the potential

Air Canada flight attendant strike. And it's a tale of two issues with the work space. On one hand, you've got a Crown Corporation that loses $10 million a day and the employees are saying they want a 13% raise. And on the other side, you've got a work issue with a company that made, I think a a general revenue or something of $1.2 billion last year. So they got money if they want. Talk to me about where there are differences and where there are similarities, Regan.

So the Canada Post strike for me, Ben, is an unfortunate situation. And it seems to be happening on a perpetual basis. And, you know, when I was in government 15 years ago, Canada Post was struggling then and seeking consistent bailouts. from taxpayers. The fact is, Canada Post business model has evolved, but not enough. The company does not make the money that it used to, and the behaviors and patterns of Canadians have changed over the years. And so the company needs to do one of two things. They need to shed about half of their workforce if they want to become cost effective, or they need to shut down and we need to

find a resolution to delivering mail in rural communities. That's really the one policy issue that stops Canada Post from being shut down is in rural communities in Canada. People are entitled and rightfully so to having mail delivery and package delivery. But apart from PureLater in the package business, Canada Post does not make money. And for the union not to recognize the economics, which are stark and regular and haven't really changed. In fact, they've gotten worse over the years for me is an alarming lack of leadership from the union. And from the workers, you know, I've never been in a union. I am sympathetic to union, the role that unions play in Canada.

and organized labor writ large, but you think that they would be led better and ask better questions than they seem to be doing. So Regan, we'll come back to Air Canada in a minute, but Sharon, I think Regan makes a very good point. When you've got the employer saying, this is all the money we can give you. We don't have any more money to throw at this problem.

And then the other side says, we are so far apart, we can't even see your side of the table. That speaks to a broken business model. If you can't make the numbers work, the business is broken. So what is the government to do? So I know you're going to hate when I say this because you probably think I'm super, super pro public sector union. But I actually agree with Regan on this.

Canada Post, like many, I would say institutionalized mail carriers by government are just a failed practice. The government has to take an extremely hard line on this because it's been years and years and years of just mismanagement. They don't make money. And especially in a time and an era when Carney is actively looking at. at cost cutting. Canada Post is a really good example of where to do so. I completely agree and I value the fact that there are rural parts of the community that require a mail service. This is surely something that can be solved with a private sector solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and constant threats of strikes. Canada Post in my perspective is not exactly

understanding what the public perception is with their constant rhetoric around strike wage increases, it is a government Crown Corp and it needs to operate better. Yeah, look at it. Yeah. I'll say it again. I've said it many times before. They lost any chance of having me on their side when they decided at Christmas to strike

and to take advantage of people who have no job security who have no plan B. They bet on themselves and these people wanted job security on the backs of entrepreneurs. I thought it was the worst decision they could make and they lost me for

forever. But let's go to Air Canada. I mean, look, we've got, we've got a lot of summer left. And if the flight attendants strike on August 16th, when they will be in a legal position to do so, that could throw a whole, that could throw everything into a tizzy, Regan. So, Ben, I agree with you. I have to say that I am with the Air Canada management on this. I'm a fan of the airline. I always have been. And I remember when the great Kaylon Rovinescu was the CEO, and he dealt with some of their labor challenges head on and in a way that allowed the airline to come through its crisis, it was like 2008, 2009, 2010, and out the other side and to be, you know, a world-class airline. Air Canada service, it's a Canadian pastime to

complain about it, but I actually think Air Canada service is pretty good. What the flight attendants, I believe, and are doing is asking for too much. That's my first point. My second point is, and we need to step back and look at the operating environment in Canada for Air Canada, Canada has some of the highest taxes and fees for travel in the country. And so it's very expensive for people to fly from one point to another. And for Air Canada, if, you know, if attendants want Air Canada to pay them more money, where Canada needs to make more money, the way they can make more money is getting more people on planes and being able to travel. And for example, where Sharon and I live, along with you, Ben, in Toronto, Pearson Airport,

which is essentially a parking lot with a five-star shopping mall attached to it, has the highest landing fees in Canada. And to me, that's outrageous. So the flight attendants need to look at the environment in which they're operating. I believe they're Canada management and support their rights and efforts here because I think management in this case has to run a business. And their job is to create value for shareholders and serve customers. And I think the flight attendants need to step back and understand.

the environment in which they're operating a little bit better and know that in a tight economy like the one we're in right now, there's not maybe enough money to go around that everybody wants and we're all going to have to, we're all going to have to save a little. And Sharon, I said this about the Canada Post employees. I said, you know, had they had they come out and said for this contract, we're not going to accept, we're not going to ask for any pay increase. I think you would have so many people lining up to support them. I think the same could be said for the flight attendants as well. If, as Regan just laid it out, the economy's bad, we're trying to gear it up again.

And so maybe take a short term, stick a short term pin in that one ask. And I think you'll have a lot of people on your side. Yeah. And I would say in this case, there's not a lot of, I would say, not a lot of people who want to be sympathetic towards the attendance who want to strike in this case. I think like a lot of us are always, or for the most part, like willing to have conversations around good workplaces and negotiations, but like we can said, flying in Canada is very expensive because we don't have competitive edge that Europe or parts of the U.S.

have. When I flew to Ottawa last time, it took me a round trip from Toronto to Ottawa was about $1,800. I'm flying to Vancouver next week, and it's cost me about $3,600 to go and come. Now, the only people that are going to pay the price here is the brand of Air Canada because people are going to get irritated because they can't get anywhere. It's going to poorly on the brand. I don't think the flight attendants are understanding that less people wanting to travel on that airline actually makes it harder for them to make money, which makes it harder for them to pay them what they want. So there's got to be a better way, but striking, especially in a service industry, where

people rely on your service to get to and from somewhere, it's not going to help their cause at all. If we want to see the economy of this country unleashed, I think, finding a way to lower the cost of travel, finding a way to lower the cost of cell phones, you do those two things, and all of sudden, you know, Regan and I can hop on a plane and go to Vancouver for dinner just because and come back. You want, you want that money to flow. You got to make sure it's a lot cheaper to get on a plane, Reagan. But Ben, it's also, you know, I think about my friend Big Peter, who lives around the corner

for me, who wants to take his family on a vacation. If he can't afford to put a family, his family of three on a flight to fly to Halifax or Alberta, and there's a big push for tourism in Canada in light of President Trump, you know, if we want Canadians to travel and see the country and support our economy, we need a cost-effective environment that allows airlines to offer competitive prices and allow people, whether it's Sharon as an individual or Big Peter as a family, or Ben, you and I going to dinner in Vancouver, which sounds wonderful. Hey, look, I'll do. Yeah. As soon as those prices drop, my friend. Well, prices drop. And then when prices drop, traffic should go up because that's, you know, economics 101, those flight

attendants can then, in an intellectually honest way, ask for a wage increase that is commiserate with the market. Right now we don't have that. Sharon, last word to you. Listen, I think we can all agree on this. We want more services. We want to make it more accessible for people to get around. And the only way we can do that is having more people use that service so they can expand it. And no one's going to want to use that service if they are perpetually in a state of threatening to strike or striking. So like, we either need more competitiveness with more airlines in Canada, which we're not going to get

anytime soon, or we need for people to not use striking as constant leverage, which doesn't impact them in the best way they think it does. All right, guys, don't go anywhere because when we come back, the Mohawks of Ganoagay are threatening to impose tolls on major roads running through their territory. What's it about? Well, it's about money. We're going to discuss that next on the Ben Mulroney show.

Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show. Welcome back to Wednesday. Welcome back to this week in politics featuring the all-stars, Regan Watts and Sharon Carr. Guys, let's jump right back in to a, a conversation about the Mohawks at Ganooga are saying that because of there are looming budget cuts coming from Mark Carney's government, they are going to take matters into their own hands and they are going to raise funds by possibly tolling the roads that go through

their territory. Sharon, how do you think this will be received in Ottawa? Good question. You know, I saw this article and I immediately went to the logistics. I'm like, how are they going to do that? Is this a restricted area? Are they talking about the general territory? Like, I can't go on my street and put a toll on my driveway.

I guess I can. But listen, I'm all for entrepreneurship. And if they're going to find ways to raise money that are going to fall within their legal parameters, go at it. I think it's a bit premature to do this, considering the cuts that the current government is talking about are still underway. And a lot of them are coming from, say, Crown corporations, public service programs that are not

utilize so maybe they should wait and see where this goes but hey if they're going to come up with a method of collecting tolls in a way that is not going to cause outrage go for it but it's just a little odd it's not it's not the 407 Regan I'll tell you where where my head goes here the

fact that is as soon as a government says we have to we've got to trim the fat we've got to look for efficiencies there are certain people who claim what is it racialized austerity And this is clearly not a government that is serious about reconciliation. Like, can we just not in a moment like this? Money is money.

You either have it or you don't. It has nothing to do with reconciliation. And these cuts are going to be felt everywhere by everyone. And so for anybody to leverage that and claim that this is some anti-reconsciliation plot is unhelpful. So, Ben, I'm going to disagree with Sharon on this one. I would actually buy tickets to watch this First Nations try and set up tolls on that highway because I don't think that there's a chance, snowball's chance in hell that this thing is going to happen. I understand the political maneuvering from the local representation, I believe it was the chief who announced this.

I want to know, though, if they're going to apply tolls, will that apply to the cigarette smugglers who are running illegal cigarettes through their First Nations? Will we be able to take a greater tax from the online? Well, they're going to get a fast pass, my friend. there yeah will there be will will the cartels who allegedly allegedly use the casinos in their nation to launder funds will they be paying an extra toll or not like give me a break it was the it was the crown who purchased or pardon me who built these roads yeah um and paying these roads it is not up to the first nations uh who who may have their own grievances i agree with you completely that grievance uh or that there's no uh uh connection to austere

and reductions in the government of Canada that Prime Minister Carney and Mr. Champagne want to make and particular racialized groups. Like, that's just ridiculous to suggest that. Yeah. But the idea of tolling public roads because they run through First Nations is insane. And if they're going to apply those tolls equally to the money launderers and the drug runners and the cigarette smugglers,

hey, let's have a conversation. But somehow, call me crazy, but somehow I think that's not going to happen. And look, Indigenous Services Canada is a government department, just like every other department. anybody here think that over the past 10 years, there haven't been, there hasn't been just a little bit of bloat, just a little bit of redundancy, just a little bit of pork in, in that department, just like every other department. There's two things in that, Ben, and I know Sharon wants to say something, so I'll be quick here.

First is, you're right that Indigenous Services Canada has experienced an enormous increase in its funding and its funding in First Nations. I am there as a Canadian that we need to continue to find ways to have reconciliation with our First Nations because clearly there are wounds that are in place that we need to on an ongoing basis it's across partisan lines do our best as a country to bring the country together and all prime ministers your father, Prime Minister Kretchen, Prime Minister Harper, Prime Minister Martin, Prime Minister Trudeau and now Prime Minister Conner are making efforts there to do so And so, like, I applaud those who are trying to do that, but that, you know, roll tolls and cuts to ISC are crazy ideas.

Or cuts to ISC are not crazy, but you get my point. The second thing is, I want to say this, and this is a broader political point, which is Prime Minister Carney, who, you know, continues to have me purring, is now, we're now seeing a case where he, you know, he's raising expectations and his credibility with voters as a guy who's going to deliver will start to be tested. Yep. because, you know, he has positioned himself as a guy who can get things done. And this is going to be one of those issues, the reconciliation with indigenous communities, Bill C5 is an example. I expect he's going to get a deal on Bill C5. But we're going to start to see some heat around here.

All right. I'm going to cut you off, Regan, and I'm going to bring Sharon in. Listen, at some point, Regan's going to start meowing on this show, which is going to think about, listen, I was partially being facetious earlier. I think this is kind of silly, and I think that we are seeing some pandering taking place. All of this being said, I think that it's not going to get much public buy-in at least from the PR perspective because people do feel like a lot of money gets given to the indigenous communities as part of reconciliation. And this seems like some sort of makeshift like ad hoc bluff that they're calling. And I don't think that it's going to, it's not going to get very far.

And you know what? Good luck. Good luck jurisdictionally trying to do that. But listen, the cuts are the cuts. They're going to come. We should not immediately jump to assume that we deserve to get that. money. There are processes that go into place and at a certain point we have to budget for things to run a country. All right. In the time that we have left, I want to talk about the Starlink deal

that was signed by the government of Ontario and then after the trade war that Donald Trump and Elon Musk by extension launched on the country, the premier of this province thought it best to tear up that deal, even though it was signed already, which means there's probably a fine for pulling out of the contract. The only problem is we don't know how much that is yet. It was a $100 million contract. So I have to assume that the pulling the shoot costs the taxpayer a certain amount of money. Now, I want to talk to the both of you, and we'll start with you, Sharon, and then we'll finish with you, Regan. As people who've worked within government before, explain the logic to me of not being forthright about the cost when access to information will give

us that cost at some point. What's the logic for a government to take this tactic? To control the narrative on their agenda and their schedule and not make a new story out of something they don't want it to be a new story yet. Like it's purely a common exercise. All this being said, I do think that the public sentiment at a certain point was so anti- Elon Musk that I think people would be willing to take that cost. Now, listen, as somebody who unfortunately owns a vehicle that is made by a set individual, not everyone is willing to tear up their contracts and kind of move on out of principle.

I think as a country and as a government, they agree to do so. But listen, we're going to have to pay the Piper at some point when we see what the cost of tearing that contract up is. And that unfortunately is something that we're going to have to live with. Regan, the final word is to you, my friend.

Well, I think it's unfortunate that Doug Ford has been trying to prosecute or persecute a former Queen's student. Elon Musk in his opposition to President Trump and the tariffs that are being placed on Canada and felt mostly in Ontario, I don't know if you saw today, there was some unemployment numbers that show Ontario has the highest unemployment outside of the Atlantic provinces, which is not good for the country. Sharon's right that it is a communications exercise, which is why they're not releasing the number

now. I have to think they're getting advice from somebody in the public service, the Ontario Public Service, who have fine people, but they would say something like, well, you can't release a number because it's commercially sensitive or commercial confidential, which I will use the PG-rated term. That's hogwash or balderdash or gobbly goop, depending on... Grade A. Bologna, is what I like to say. And with some cheese on top. And so I think they should just release the number now. It's August the 6th. People aren't really paying attention. I think Sharon's right that there is some

public sympathy towards the premier in tearing up the contract. By the way, Starlink is a great service. I'm not knocking the service. Well, listen, we're going to end on a dangling Chad because the question is this was being done to offer high-speed internet to rural communities. And as far as I know, they are head and shoulders. The only game in town for that sort of thing. There are other companies, but nothing like this. So if you tear up that contract, who are you going with next? That's what I'm going to want to know next.

Guys, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your week. Canada is best known for politeness maple syrup and hockey, but beneath the surface lies something far darker. I'm Mike Brown and along with my co-host Matthew Stockton, we uncover the sinister side of Canada on the award-winning true crime podcast, Dark Poutine. Each Monday, we dive into chilling criminal cases, eerie historical events, strange disappearances and spine-tingling tales of the paranormal, all with a uniquely Canadian twist. With over 300 episodes to binge for free, our stories reach far beyond Canada's borders, drawing in curious minds from around the world. If you're drawn to the dark, the mysterious and the downright weird, it's time to join us.

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